obstructive parking in housing estate opposite busy school

mrsmurphy1916

Hi there,
Probably in wrong forum but I am a newbie so please forgive.Anyway back from the school run and nearly had head on collision with angry mom due to the fact that there is always a car parked outside a house just beside the lollipop crossing and turn in to school. This car takes up the whole lane of the road as its a narrow road so you have to fully take up the other side ofthe road to pass it out. I had let 6 cars thru when I had to make a move as traffic jam behind me. This happens every morning. they actually could park in driveway or ten steps across the road or round corner instead of blocking the whole left side of road .
the woman herself can see this as she walks her kid to school every morning and sees the traffic chaos her car causes, that's why I wouldn't approach ner and say it to her, as either she is too oblivious or brazen as she can physically see this chaos.It's amazing she hasn't had her side mirror pranged off or tail lights cracks so far.
I told the guards about it this morning and he was most unhelpful and verging on aggressive and said as long as there are no yellow lines tough. And doesn't care that its causing an obstruction and making driving conditions dangerous.It's a new enough school that came many years after the estate was built so lines wouldn't have been needed initially. It also blocks the lollipop lady but the guard said she has to complain not me.She won't, the old attitude of keep your head down and say nothing prevails. Any one experienced this ??Should I petition council for lines, write a letter to superior etc...Or save myself the blood pressure until someone has an accident or damages her car and let it unfold and drop off kids further away??also the guards said they would need to send a squad car to observe it but he wasn't going to send a car for something like that..It's not our local station as that is closed most of the time and not taking calls regularly it gets diverted to this one and as its not his area he doesn't give a fig...Anyone any ideas??

witchgirl26

OP does the car belong to the house it's parked outside or is it just left there. It could be that there is another car in the house that is parked in the driveway but moves earlier in the morning. Honestly though if it's a case that the car belongs to the house and the school came after than I would have thought it would make more sense to move the lollipop crossing.

I've a school at the end of my road & it is a nightmare for residents with parents driving to & from the school but we all have to get along & get in & out of the estate. The school helped the situation by developing a one way in & out system that allowed parents to drop off in the school rather than sitting on the road.

Maybe have a chat to the school about it all but not about the one singular car, more around the general traffic management of parents dropping kids off.

AnnaStezia

This might get some other answers if you move it to the Legal Discussion forum which is under Society and Culture.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

dev100

If you get enough people you could ask the council to put double yellow lines on the road where the obstruction is . Also take pics and ask the school to inform parents not to obstruct traffic and other road users.

witchgirl26

dev100 wrote: »

If you get enough people you could ask the council to put double yellow lines on the road where the obstruction is . Also take pics and ask the school to inform parents not to obstruct traffic and other road users.

If the school was built after & it's in a housing estate than I doubt the council will paint double yellow lines outside houses to facilitate the school. As the school is only open 9 months of the year & for particular times, it would be harsh on the residents of the estate to deal with that all day year round.

cruizer101

Say it to the school principal, if it is making the lollipop crossing less safe they would have an obligation to follow up I woudl think, and far easier for them to get some double yellow put in then you

punisher5112

Contact the council and supply photos.

If there are double yellow lines or even a bus stop I find if its outside a school they will park on both and couldn't care less.

Victor

Perhaps park away from the school and walk the rest of the way with the children?

AnnaStezia

mrsmurphy1916 wrote: »

SNIP SNIP I told the guards about it this morning and he was most unhelpful and verging on aggressive and said as long as there are no yellow lines tough. And doesn't care that its causing an obstruction and making driving conditions dangerous. SNIP SNIP

If the manner of the parking of the offending car does create a danger and or a hazard that restricts or cuts sight lines between traffic and little people and a child is killed they will then take an interest following the usual vapid recommendations of an inquest jury.

MarkR

If they're blocking your side, until they sort it, you'll have to rely on the people who have right of way to let you pass. You don't have the right to push your way through, even if traffic is backing up behind.

I do feel your pain though. As above, I would get onto the local council to see what they can do to make it safer.

endacl

Walk your kids to school. All kinds of benefits, not least of which is that you'll be part of a solution instead of part of a problem.

'School run'? My school run was legging it because I was late.

wordofwarning

I would call the Garda station in 8 hours when that Gardai isn't on. Some Gardai just want to sit in an office and stamp the odd passport form than do some community policing. I don't get their logic. A lollipop lady who is a low level civil servant holding a sign and pressing traffic light buttons to help children cross is more experienced on making a call whether the Gardai need to investigate this? It is ridiculous. I imagine a different Garda might actually want to help.

Call the council and ask for lines. Most roads in Dublin have double yellow lines on the entrance into them

Wheety

Park further away and walk. It'll be less stressful and little legs will be getting a bit of exercise before school.

AndrewJRenko

Have you tried parking your car a bit away from the school and walking in for the remaining distance? This would eliminate the problem for you and your children.

If there is a serious issue for parents, you should contact the school and the Parents Association to lobby for changes, but Councils don't make changes like this lightly.

dudara

Moved to Accommodation & Property as am assuming you are resident, apologies mods if incorrect

dudara

Samuel T. Cogley

This could easily be Kilbarrack. If it is (or even if it isn't) there are a huge number of factors and dickish behaviour but frankly if they're not on yellow lines then tough is absolutely right. Approach the coucil about the lines, the school and community guards about the parents. Expect zero co-operation from everyone.

I completely agree with the above. Walk or if you can't walk completely, walk further.

seamus

The householders point of view is why should she have to park her car around the corner to facilitate other people doing the school run?

And she's right, why should she?

If you choose to drive your kid to school then you choose to have to battle it out with everyone else who made that choice.

Those who choose to walk don't have to bend over backwards to accommodate it.

You'll have a hard time getting anyone to paint double yellows outside a house on a residential road. At best you'll get pay and display but householders will get permanent permits.

mel123

Imagine the nightmare for the house holder at school times, its probably so bad trying to go in and out of a driveway because of it they park on the road.

As others have said, if you find it too stressful/dangerous park a bit away and walk. Dont get me wrong, i do get your frustration, but i get the frustration of the householder a lot more

endacl

mel123 wrote: »

Imagine the nightmare for the house holder at school times, its probably so bad trying to go in and out of a driveway because of it they park on the road.

Tell me about it. :mad:

We're around the corner from a primary school and next door to a creche. The amount of lazy 'well I'm entitled to' people dropping off their children every morning has to be seen to be believed. Plenty of them dropping them off from within about 10 minutes walk away. Which, ironically, becomes about a 30 minute drive because there's so many of them at it...

Bad enough to have them constantly parking across the driveway 'just for a minute because there was nowhere else to park see?, but I actually came back one afternoon to find a car parked in the driveway. I just pulled in behind it and left mine there. Until about 10pm.

Miaireland

Contact the traffic section of your city/county Council. If you can send photos. They may be willing send a traffic warden out or consider putting yellow lines.

Teyla Emmagan

dev100 wrote:

If you get enough people you could ask the council to put double yellow lines on the road where the obstruction is . Also take pics and ask the school to inform parents not to obstruct traffic and other road users.

Just take photos and send to your local councillors and ask them to have yellow lines put down.

BabyWillis

So you drove head on at traffic nearly causing an accident and the person that parked outside there own house in a housing estate is the person in the wrong?
Have you ever taught that if the person parks in their drive way that every tom dick and Harry would just park outside the house and obstruct them from leaving their own house and maybe this women has to go to work straight after dropping her child to school and can't afford to come back and be blocked in.

Wabbit Ears

The houseowner has every right to park on a public road perfectly legally outside their own house in their own estate.

the_syco

mrsmurphy1916 wrote: »

there is always a car parked outside a house just beside the lollipop crossing and turn in to school.

mrsmurphy1916 wrote: »

I told the guards about it this morning and he was most unhelpful and verging on aggressive and said as long as there are no yellow lines tough.

Goto the council, and inform them that car being parked there is a danger to small kids crossing at the lollipop lady.

Lau2976

As others have said the homeowner may be parking there to combat others blocking them in. There's a creche a few doors down from me, I actually posted a thread about it, and nearly everybody here stakes their claim outside their houses in the evening to make sure they aren't blocked in come the morning. My OH has been left trapped in the driveway for up to an hour waiting for there to be room to move out because a parent had gone off with someone for some tea while their kids were at a summer camp thing.

I'm going to reiterate what others have said and encourage you to walk even some of the way with your child, as someone on the other side of this it can be infuriating to deal with every morning and evening, and that's without all of the other issues that come with living near a creche or school.

We've tried to get the meters put in here but its a cul-de-sac and the council says there is no way they would put them on a road with only one business.

Framed10

Victor wrote: »

Perhaps park away from the school and walk the rest of the way with the children?

My experience of having to get passed a primary school in a housing estate every morning to get into my place of work is that parents would drive their kids in the front door of the school if they could.
Not a bicycle in sight and very few willing to park and walk 5mins to the school.

this sums it up perfectly <broken link snipped>

PhoenixParker

The best bet might be to think bigger and look into working with the school to set up walking buses. Basically it's like a car pool but for walking to school. Each adult takes a turn to get a big group of kids to school. Even if you yourself are too far from the school for it to directly benefit you, it might reduce traffic enough to ease the whole situation.

Cookie_Monster

seamus wrote: »

The householders point of view is why should she have to park her car around the corner to facilitate other people doing the school run?

why should she be able to block an entire road lane (any possibly the footpath too) just to park her car?, regardless of who is using the road it should be kept clear for actual driving rather than people abandoning their vehicle where they please.

The_Conductor

With respect of bringing a council surveyor out for prospective double yellow lines to control parking- be careful- read the rules of the road- you're not supposed to stop to park within a certain distance of a junction, zebra crossing etc etc. Its far from unusual for parents in schools to apply for parking restrictions- such as you are describing- only to find that their own favourite place for stopping to let their little darlings off- is also double yellow lined. If a few parents were to start getting points (and yes- it is a point offense)- you could find yourself rapidly wishing you'd never brought the council surveyor out in the first place.

Have a re-read of your own post- and think about the rules of the road, and how you'd behave if you were doing your driving test- you've described a driving test fail yourself- describing how you drove at the oncoming traffic.

Now- have a rethink about the poor residents who have to put up with being blockaded in their homes for up to an hour morning and evenings- 34 weeks of the year- or the motorists on their way to work who have the misfortune to pass schools in the run-up to opening or closing time and are constantly blocked in as a resident in their own homes by inconsiderate women doing the 'school run', or impeded on their way to work by mummies whose little dears need to be dropped right at the gate to the school- and woe betide anyone who tries to stop them doing their 15 point turn in their Volvo V70 or XC90 that they can barely see over the dash of, much less obey the rules of the road in, and legally turn in a manner which doesn't impede other traffic......

I could show you the dash cam footage from three local schools (which stagger their starting times so as to try to assist parents who have children in more than one)- and anyone who has passed their driving test in the last 30 years could pick out over 20 or more driving test fails by mums delivering their little darlings to school in the morning- every single bloody morning. We took footage to show 5th years who were taking driving lessons- they were agog- and a few were embarrased to recognise their own parents.......... It can be quite an eye opener.

Parents do not have a god given right to drop their little darlings to the gate of the school, spend 5 minutes trying to do a 180 degree turn back in the direction they came- and then get road rage and drive head-on at oncoming traffic- because they are suddenly invincible, in their 2 tonnes of steel.

I am writing this as a parent to a 6 and a 7 year old- both of whom I do my utmost to ensure, do not see me doing patently stupid things while driving. And no- while I ensure they get safely to school on a daily basis- I can count on my two hands the number of days every year that I drive them to the school gate. We live 8 miles away from the school.

The one thing that is screaming at me from your post- is your sense of entitlement- and when you didn't get your way- you resorted to road rage- driving head-on at oncoming traffic- how would you feel if you caused an accident which seriously hurt young children?

I'm really sorry- I've tried to see your side of the story- and I am a parent myself- but honestly- the more I think about it- and picture you gunning your motor and driving full pelt at oncoming traffic- the feeling of dread in my mind as I picture a head-on collission, ambulances at the scene, children and other parents crying- I just don't get where you're coming from.

Parking a distance from the school, where you are not obstructing anyone, where you can turn without difficulty- and where you're not going to get stressed out- is not rocket science. Driving full pelt at oncoming traffic- because you insisted on delivering your little dear to the school gate in your vehicle- and feel invincible in your car- is nuts.

Cop on.

pilly

Cookie_Monster wrote:

why should she be able to block an entire road lane (any possibly the footpath too) just to park her car?, regardless of who is using the road it should be kept clear for actual driving rather than people abandoning their vehicle where they please.

Want to be some car to be blocking the footpath and half the road.

Chuchote

There are two schools (both of which also have creches) up the road from me. Parents come from 5km around to drop their children to school/creche. People who live opposite the schools are blocked in and prevented from getting to work by parents who park across their driveway - people who live down the lane opposite the school are blocked in by people who park down the lane. Parents who are asked to move respond with rudeness and sometimes obscene language.

I notice, though, that the more local parents are starting to cycle with their children - a fleet of bikes and scooters heads to school along the pavement every weekday.

The drop in traffic during school holidays is startling. It seems to me to be an awful pity that we don't have the same policy as other countries, where you are entitled to send your children to the nearest school, and children have priority according to whether they live nearby.

(I couldn't understand what your poll is asking, OP.)

If you contact the council seeking double yellow lines because the lollipop man or woman is obstructed, the logical (and cheaper) response for the council would be to move the lollipop man or woman up the road a bit.

Peregrinus

Chuchote wrote: »

The drop in traffic during school holidays is startling. It seems to me to be an awful pity that we don't have the same policy as other countries, where you are entitled to send your children to the nearest school, and children have priority according to whether they live nearby.

As someone who lives in such a country, I can tell you that that doesn't avoid this problem. If parents prefer to drive their children to school, that preference isn't really affected by how near the school is.

Squatman

talk to the driver of the car, and inform her of the obstruction, and ask her to park more considerately

seamus

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why should she be able to block an entire road lane (any possibly the footpath too) just to park her car?, regardless of who is using the road it should be kept clear for actual driving rather than people abandoning their vehicle where they please.

If she parks it around the corner, she's going to be blocking a lane there too. Just moving the problem from one place to another.

People park their cars on the side of the road. That's how it works. Depending on the size and importance of the road, parking may be restricted.

Residential roads are not important roads and not high-traffic roads.

Governments would (and should) prevent people from driving their kids to school before they prevent people parking their car on a residential road.

pilly

I think your poll is deceptive OP. The description you give is of someone parking a car outside their own house. Probably to avoid getting blocked into their own driveway. That's not obstructive parking.

Samuel T. Cogley

Actually the very best traffic calming measure out there is residents parking their cars outside their gaffes. People rarely worry about hitting a kid, but taking the wing mirrow off a 00 micra - now that's some important consideration right there!

Caliden

OP you come across very entitled.

The 'obstructive' parking (as you've described it) is simply someone parking their car outside their house on a public road (which they are legally entitled to do).

No parent should expect to be able drop off their little darlings directly at the door of the school. Keep pushing the council/school and you may find that they restrict traffic further in the area for residents' sake, which has been done in areas of Rathfarnham.

MysticMonk

mrsmurphy1916 wrote: »

Hi there,
Probably in wrong forum but I am a newbie so please forgive.Anyway back from the school run and nearly had head on collision with angry mom due to the fact that there is always a car parked outside a house just beside the lollipop crossing and turn in to school. This car takes up the whole lane of the road as its a narrow road so you have to fully take up the other side ofthe road to pass it out. I had let 6 cars thru when I had to make a move as traffic jam behind me. This happens every morning. they actually could park in driveway or ten steps across the road or round corner instead of blocking the whole left side of road .
the woman herself can see this as she walks her kid to school every morning and sees the traffic chaos her car causes, that's why I wouldn't approach ner and say it to her, as either she is too oblivious or brazen as she can physically see this chaos.It's amazing she hasn't had her side mirror pranged off or tail lights cracks so far.
I told the guards about it this morning and he was most unhelpful and verging on aggressive and said as long as there are no yellow lines tough. And doesn't care that its causing an obstruction and making driving conditions dangerous.It's a new enough school that came many years after the estate was built so lines wouldn't have been needed initially. It also blocks the lollipop lady but the guard said she has to complain not me.She won't, the old attitude of keep your head down and say nothing prevails. Any one experienced this ??Should I petition council for lines, write a letter to superior etc...Or save myself the blood pressure until someone has an accident or damages her car and let it unfold and drop off kids further away??also the guards said they would need to send a squad car to observe it but he wasn't going to send a car for something like that..It's not our local station as that is closed most of the time and not taking calls regularly it gets diverted to this one and as its not his area he doesn't give a fig...Anyone any ideas??

Why can't you do the same instead of road-raging yourself into a near accident whilst dripping with entitlement?

JillyQ

I completely understand why she parks her car there. I unfortunately live close to 3 secondary schools and 2 primary schools. While the council have done there best, they put in cycle lanes and areas for parents to pull in and let there children out safely along with pedestrian crossings do the parents use them no of course not they now stop in traffic right outside the gates of the schools. Causing more delays and obstructing traffic.

Samuel T. Cogley

JillyQ wrote: »

I completely understand why she parks her car there. I unfortunately live close to 3 secondary schools and 2 primary schools. While the council have done there best, they put in cycle lanes and areas for parents to pull in and let there children out safely along with pedestrian crossings do the parents use them no of course not they now stop in traffic right outside the gates of the schools. Causing more delays and obstructing traffic.

I read that three times as they 'put cycle lanes in for parents to stop in' :pac:

I think it's fair to say I have baggage with this issue!

JillyQ

Samuel T. Cogley wrote:

I read that three times as they 'put cycle lanes in for parents to stop in'

No sorry the areas to pull in are across the road from the cycle lanes. The school entrances have pedestrian crossing right beside them.
.

Samuel T. Cogley

JillyQ wrote: »

No sorry the areas to pull in are across the road from the cycle lanes. The school entrances have pedestrian crossing right beside them.
.

No, no It was me misreading it you were perfectly clear! Sorry I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I just mean they're a bloody nightmare where I live. We;ve 5 schools within a few yards of each other and a DART station. It's every man/woman/child for themselves driving around there during the school run.

JillyQ

Samuel T. Cogley wrote:

I just mean they're a bloody nightmare where I live. We;ve 5 schools within a few yards of each other and a DART station. It's every man/woman/child for themselves driving around there during the school run.

Thank God we don't have the dart station on top of it. But we have another 5 schools within 1.5 miles of the other ones. Kinda makes it impossible in the mornings. Roll on the summer holidays.

The_Conductor

I'd like to add an option to the poll along the lines of-

'Should an effort be made to stop parents delivering children to school- and additional resources put into assisting children walk safely to and from school.......'?

This could of course include parking facilities some distance from the school itself, from where parents could walk their children to school- alongside additional attended zebra crossing/warden crossings- however, not precisely at the gates of the school.

I'd also strongly suggest that the rules of the road, governing not parking within 20 feet of a zebra or attended crossing, a junction, double yellow lines, boxes etc etc- all be policed to the maximum possible extent in the vicinity of schools- and a mandatory 30Km speed limit be observed for a 1km radius of a school.

There are several different planks in this equation- its not all the fault of bad parking by residents- it has to include legal drop offs by parents, a push to encourage walking- and a clampdown on other road traffic on safety grounds- to ensure children are safe walking to and from school.

Some areas already have such schemes up and running- for example- parking for parents at the local church carpark, from where they can walk their children to school- with no permissible drop-offs at the school gate etc- where the road is fully boxed for 50m in either direction, and an attended pedestrian crossing is present between 8AM and 9AM and again from 2.30PM and 3.30PM
during the school term.

The whole 'school-run' nonsense is ridiculous- and really needs to be managed better- to try and encourage children, where possible, to walk.

Michael D Not Higgins

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd also strongly suggest that the rules of the road, governing not parking within 20 feet of a zebra or attended crossing, a junction, double yellow lines, boxes etc etc- all be policed to the maximum possible extent in the vicinity of schools- and a mandatory 30Km speed limit be observed for a 1km radius of a school.

Policed by whom? The gardaí certainly don't have the resources to enforce that at rush hour at every school. Also, in Dublin where schools are closer together, your speed limit plan would put the entire city and suburbs in a 30km/h zone. Who'd enforce that since all the traffic cops are making sure the yummy mummies aren't stopping their Land Rovers beside a zebra crossing?

The best policy is to enforce by design. As you've already outlined there are schools which do this by preventing the kids being dropped at the door and offering alternative parking arrangements. I'd also like to point out that stopping is different to parking and dropping someone off at double yellows is allowed.

The_Conductor

In a Dublin context- since the 1st April- the entire city encapsuled within the two canals- is a 30Kmph zone- it was extended throughout- against the wishes of pretty much everyone, by Dublin city council.........

Chuchote

The_Conductor wrote: »

In a Dublin context- since the 1st April- the entire city encapsuled within the two canals- is a 30Kmph zone- it was extended throughout- against the wishes of pretty much everyone, by Dublin city council.........

Not anyone I know.

AndrewJRenko

The_Conductor wrote: »

In a Dublin context- since the 1st April- the entire city encapsuled within the two canals- is a 30Kmph zone- it was extended throughout- against the wishes of pretty much everyone, by Dublin city council.........

Except the main roads - you forgot to mention the main roads, right?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

"Should parked vehicles which obstruct dropping kids to school be illegal"

I live near multiple schools and it's the parents dropping the kids to school that cause most of the problems. From parking on double yellow lines, parking on footpaths, parking AT traffic lights, across driveways etc. It should be €1,000+ fine for each offence, increasing by €1,000 EUR for each additional parking offence. The only way to get through to these morons.

The owner of the property is allowed park her car legally on the road. However if you feel there is a serious safety concern, contact your Co. Co. and ask that the senior traffic engineer completes a review of the road layout. Put it in writing and make sure to detail the reasoning behind the need for double yellow lines. Perhaps get signatures outside the school to back your request.

Even with double yellow lines, don't hold your breath that the Garda? will enforce the lines.

McGrath5

I share the pain of living near 3 schools, 2 primary and 1 secondary.

Cycling into my old job, I was doored a couple of times by parents and kids swinging their doors open at traffic lights so the kids could hop out before the lights turned green, even though there was plenty of parking only about 100m further down the road.

Changed job earlier this year where I have to drive in, I had to change my start time because of the traffic chaos in the mornings around the area.

Even this week with the fine weather we are having, the amount of parents who drive their kids to school when it would be far quicker to walk only 10 or 15 minutes is astonishing.

.......

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