Cafes and laptops/tablets???

sporina

I have wondered about this numerous times over the last number of years but today it reached a peak..

I wonder what is the school of thought amongst cafe/coffee shop owners when it comes to people using laptops/tablets (studying) in their establishments?
It seems they buy a coffee or what ever but stay ages; I don't know the maths but I would imagine that people who use these gadgets stay longer than those not and perhaps spending perhaps the same or probably less money, thus taking up space which other paying customers could use. This obviously reduces profits.

And today - it screamed at me - it felt as if I had walked into a library as oppose to cafe. eg I was meeting a mate for lunch - we were there 2 hrs and spent nearly 18e. Out of say 10 tables on one floor - almost everyone was on a gadget. I spotted 2 people on laptops who were there when we arrived and they were still there when we were leaving and both had a 1 cup beside them during that whole time. I can't say for sure but I imagine thats all they got. People coming up had to leave and presumably look for a seat on another floor.

Anyone any thoughts on this? Or even better, any cafe owners/managers on here with some insight?

Erik Shin

Kill the free WiFi, gets rid of the moochers.

Barry Badrinath

Cafe cvnts?

Bunch o'****

Donal55

And invariably they take all the good seats around by the walls and the plug sockets leaving the other suckers at the door or in the middle of the floor.

Come to think of it, who would be liable if I accidentally tripped and spilt my coffee over their mac, tomorrow?

ED E

You were there today, but might not be back for a fortnight. The macbooks are there every day. May buy infrequently but they're consistent custom. Try to dissuade them and you'll soon be closing up.

TrustedApple

That was me in college I used to live next to costa coffee there was notting more then I loved bringing my laptop with me and doing coffee work and enjoying a nice coffee I could stay 2 hours or so but I would be in nearly 2 or 3 times a week

sporina

ED E wrote: »

You were there today, but might not be back for a fortnight. The macbooks are there every day. May buy infrequently but they're consistent custom. Try to dissuade them and you'll soon be closing up.

I go out for lunch most days - granted I would not stay 2 hrs..
And have had to leave several places over the years due to tables being taken up (tables for 2/4) by one person on a gadget..
And I am one of many from what I have witnessed.

I would really love to know how this effects the economics of running such an establishment.
And I suppose I am more concerned with places that serve food (breakfast/lunch) as oppose to just cafes with beverages and baked goods.

Beyondgone

I love earwigging on people who insist on having meetings in coffee shops. Often, they're discussing quite important stuff too.. I now have a waaay better grasp of the GAA's finances because 2 of their good lads were having an important meeting at a table beside ours.. and there's been plenty of other occasions. Why people would want to meet in a public place to discuss sales/financial matters mystifies me. It's a coffee shop. Find an office ffs. Anyone could be listening. Even me.

Ken.

It's like seeing a roadside cafe with a load of trucks outside it. The truckers know the good spots so that's where I'm going for grub. Same with a cafe, your more likely to go in to one with a few people in it rather than an empty one.

Beyondgone

Barbie! wrote: »

It's like seeing a roadside cafe with a load of trucks outside it. The truckers know the good spots so that's where I'm going for grub. Same with a cafe, your more likely to go in to one with a few people in it rather than an empty one.

Breakfast in Mother Hubbards..any time of the day. One of life's small pleasures.

sporina

Barbie! wrote: »

It's like seeing a roadside cafe with a load of trucks outside it. The truckers know the good spots so that's where I'm going for grub. Same with a cafe, your more likely to go in to one with a few people in it rather than an empty one.

at a risk of contradicting you - i'm talking about people having to leave places due to there being no space what with tables taken up as said earlier..

if the cafes were empty save the gadget goers now thats a different story

Beyondgone

sporina wrote: »

at a risk of contradicting you - i'm talking about people having to leave places due to there being no space what with tables taken up as said earlier..

if the cafes were empty save the gadget goers now thats a different story

Truckers tend not to be big laptop users. They also tend to like a different sort of establishment. Less Costa, more cosy.

Ken.

sporina wrote: »

at a risk of contradicting you - i'm talking about people having to leave places due to there being no space what with tables taken up as said earlier..

if the cafes were empty save the gadget goers now thats a different story

Yeah, I get you now. My analogy was wrong in those circumstances.

Oh and you can contradict the hell out of me. I've got a mother,wife and daughter. I'm rarely right.

Pelvis

Barbie! wrote: »

It's like seeing a roadside cafe with a load of trucks outside it. The truckers know the good spots so that's where I'm going for grub. Same with a cafe, your more likely to go in to one with a few people in it rather than an empty one.

Not me, I'd be far more likely to go where there are less people.

sporina

Barbie! wrote: »

Yeah, I get you now. My analogy was wrong in those circumstances.

Oh and you can contradict the hell out of me. I've got a mother,wife and daughter. I'm rarely right.

lol..... awe i love your attitude.. fair play.. good sport

wakka12

Well whats the alternative? Tell them to get out? See how long your cafe lasts with that behaviour towards customers.
Its a pretty ****ty thing to do if the cafe is packed and new customers are looking for seats. its just one of those things that people have to feel obliged to not do, for moral reasons. Theres nothing that cafe owners can do about this problem really

Silentcorner

Barbie! wrote: »

It's like seeing a roadside cafe with a load of trucks outside it. The truckers know the good spots so that's where I'm going for grub. Same with a cafe, your more likely to go in to one with a few people in it rather than an empty one.

This needs to be nipped in the bud.

Truckers stop where they can park their trucks, namely, restaurants/cafes with massive car parks....nothing to do with the quality of the food...

Its a bit like suggesting that airports serve the best food because planes from all over the world park up there...

joeguevara

sporina wrote: »

I have wondered about this numerous times over the last number of years but today it reached a peak..

I wonder what is the school of thought amongst cafe/coffee shop owners when it comes to people using laptops/tablets (studying) in their establishments?
It seems they buy a coffee or what ever but stay ages; I don't know the maths but I would imagine that people who use these gadgets stay longer than those not and perhaps spending perhaps the same or probably less money, thus taking up space which other paying customers could use. This obviously reduces profits.

And today - it screamed at me - it felt as if I had walked into a library as oppose to cafe. eg I was meeting a mate for lunch - we were there 2 hrs and spent nearly 18e. Out of say 10 tables on one floor - almost everyone was on a gadget. I spotted 2 people on laptops who were there when we arrived and they were still there when we were leaving and both had a 1 cup beside them during that whole time. I can't say for sure but I imagine thats all they got. People coming up had to leave and presumably look for a seat on another floor.

Anyone any thoughts on this? Or even better, any cafe owners/managers on here with some insight?

So 2 people were there for 2 hours and spent €18. That's 4.50 an hour, pretty much the price of a coffee. Your not as good a customer as you think you are.

Beyondgone

wakka12 wrote: »

Well whats the alternative? Tell them to get out? See how long your cafe lasts with that behaviour towards customers.
Its a pretty ****ty thing to do if the cafe is packed and new customers are looking for seats. its just one of those things that people have to feel obliged to not do, for moral reasons. Theres nothing that cafe owners can do about this problem really

Oddly, that isn't how it works. Often, the inverse is true. My old lad ran a restaurant famous for how rude the waiters were. People came just to be insulted. It was the attraction. When that policy changed, it vanished off the map. People are odd in ways it is hard to comprehend.

wakka12

joeguevara wrote: »

So 2 people were there for 2 hours and spent €18. That's 4.50 an hour, pretty much the price of a coffee. Your not as good a customer as you think you are.

wtf? And the person who also spent two hours+ there and only got one coffee for 3 euro ( 1.50 an hour) is a considerably worse customer regardless which was his point? So whats your point?

wakka12

Beyondgone wrote: »

Oddly, that isn't how it works. Often, the inverse is true. My old lad ran a restaurant famous for how rude the waiters were. People came just to be insulted. It was the attraction. When that policy changed, it vanished off the map. People are odd in ways it is hard to comprehend.

Thats hardly a common scenario though? Maybe it worked for that particular restaurant out of novelty but I think a safe rule of thumb for restaurants would be to treat their customers nicely if they want them to come back

Beyondgone

Silentcorner wrote: »

This needs to be nipped in the bud.

Truckers stop where they can park their trucks, namely, restaurants/cafes with massive car parks....nothing to do with the quality of the food...

Its a bit like suggesting that airports serve the best food because planes from all over the world park up there...

Toughers springs to mind.. the carparks whopping... the food..erm, is food. Lovely. Honest. It's always packed.

whippet

I often leave the office and head for a coffee shop with my laptop ... I'm far more productive when i don't have people annoying me ... also when I'm out and about visiting customers coffee shops are the only real place to get a bit of work done rather than battling traffic to get back to the office.

Mind you I don't I don't take the piss ... I'll buy coffee .. lunch ... snacks when there .. I could easily spend €20+ a day in coffee shops .. keep the receipts and it's a win win

ProudDUB

There is a cafe near my job, that that has a sign on the door, saying they have no wifi, as they are all about promoting conversation and "real" socializing. Me hole ! It's so they won't attract the lap top brigade, hogging all the tables when they are busy. It's a smart move imo, as its the only cafe in the area (with a lot of officer workers) where people can sit down and get "proper" hot food.

sporina

yeah it if it was me I would just cut off the wifi - no need to shun anyone.. but the gadget folk probably would not bother staying too long if at all.. thus leaving space for people who probably spend more/stay for shorter periods of time..

I would love to hear from a cafe owner/manager though - get some facts/1st hand info - anyone out there?

Its a good discussion though

WHIP IT!

Beyondgone wrote: »

I love earwigging on people who insist on having meetings in coffee shops. Often, they're discussing quite important stuff too.. I now have a waaay better grasp of the GAA's finances because 2 of their good lads were having an important meeting at a table beside ours.. and there's been plenty of other occasions. Why people would want to meet in a public place to discuss sales/financial matters mystifies me. It's a coffee shop. Find an office ffs. Anyone could be listening. Even me.

Did anyone else find the phrase "two of their good lads" hilarious?? Love the GAA, have played & followed it all my life - and I can totally picture the pair of them

pilly

I can see both sides I suppose. The person on the laptop might be someone who goes in every day and has their lunch there and hangs around. He could be there winter and summer. So why should he feck off when a load of visitors come in.

Then again the ones who only buy one coffee are definitely taking the piss. If I was the owner of a busy caf? and someone was regularly at it then I'd have a quiet word and say you know there are people waiting for tables.

seagull

When I drop the car in for a service, I tend to walk across to the nearest coffee shop and work there until it's done. I've wound up spending a full day there before. Over that time, I've probably bought 3 coffees and lunch there, largely because I feel guilty about hogging their resources. Would they prefer my business or to tell me to go away?

nikkisclearout

Barbie! wrote: »

Yeah, I get you now. My analogy was wrong in those circumstances.

Oh and you can contradict the hell out of me. I've got a mother,wife and daughter. I'm rarely right.

Legend !

sporina

seagull wrote: »

When I drop the car in for a service, I tend to walk across to the nearest coffee shop and work there until it's done. I've wound up spending a full day there before. Over that time, I've probably bought 3 coffees and lunch there, largely because I feel guilty about hogging their resources. Would they prefer my business or to tell me to go away?

well you are spending money so i wouldn't have a prob with you - but in recent years being in and out of coffee shops/cafes, there are some people on gadgets who really are treating the places like libraries (buying perhaps one beverage)

No evidence yesterday of any of the gadget gang having eaten - but I wasn't observing them close enough to know the stats

TheDoc

ED E wrote: »

You were there today, but might not be back for a fortnight. The macbooks are there every day. May buy infrequently but they're consistent custom. Try to dissuade them and you'll soon be closing up.

Also presents an image to the walker by that the place is popular and packed.

There is the age of adage of seeing a restaurant or cafe empty is a bad sign.

ScumLord

Beyondgone wrote: »

Why people would want to meet in a public place to discuss sales/financial matters mystifies me.

Sometimes it's just easier for everybody. Trying to avoid going into the city or a part of the city with high parking costs or no parking available. Sometimes one of the party has a ****ty office and an old jar of Maxwell house so don't want potential clients seeing that. sometimes people are meeting half way. There are loads of reasons to have a meeting in a coffeeshop and once you're having plenty of meetings in coffee shops it just becomes the norm to invite them to a coffeeshop and buy them a coffee.

joeguevara wrote: »

That's 4.50 an hour, pretty much the price of a coffee.

Is it?

I think with most coffeeshops as long as you're not taking up space during rush hour when they make most their money they won't be too upset about taking 2 hours to drink a coffee. They basically advertise the fact a coffee shop has a hipster using social media sitting somewhere. They're just part of the furniture and while not as good as a cat don't fall foul of hygiene laws.

TheDoc

whippet wrote: »

I often leave the office and head for a coffee shop with my laptop ... I'm far more productive when i don't have people annoying me ... also when I'm out and about visiting customers coffee shops are the only real place to get a bit of work done rather than battling traffic to get back to the office.

Mind you I don't I don't take the piss ... I'll buy coffee .. lunch ... snacks when there .. I could easily spend €20+ a day in coffee shops .. keep the receipts and it's a win win

To be honest any of my team told me they were more productive in a coffee shop then in the office or at home, I'd 100% think they were taking the piss.

I've always assumed people on laptops in coffee shops simply don't have internet at home, were workaholics or just gadget freaks or socially awkward.

I'd never in a million years consider a coffee shop a productive place of work :O

Pivot Eoin

I fall on both sides of the fence here.

I do go to Coffee shops with my laptop quite often, contrary to what others say, I believe them to be wonderfully productive.

However I also get awkward after being in one for longer than say 40 mins having only bought one coffee.

The medium ground (Excuse coffee pun) is to find one with good coffee and good food, I usually start with a coffee, order food about 40mins to an hour in, then after the food, I'd perhaps get a decaf if I felt need to stay longer than 15 more mins.

It aint about getting to sit somewhere for free in my eyes, 2 coffees and cafe food is what 15euro? 15euro is a great price to get 3 solid hours of work done.

Just dont be that w*nker with a €2k Macbook, sitting there looking at an open screen, or looking at Pics on Facebook... It's easier to just wear a t-shirt with "I Have a MacBook" printed on it, if you want to let everyone know you're a c*nt.

sporina

TheDoc wrote: »

Also presents an image to the walker by that the place is popular and packed.

There is the age of adage of seeing a restaurant or cafe empty is a bad sign.

believe me the cafe I was in yday is always packed.. probably because the food is good.. and the coffee is good and reasonably priced (2.50e for a regular americano)

The number of people who had to leave the floor i was on yday due to their being no space (mind you there was space - if you include the 3 spaces free at the numerous tables for 4 that some solo gadget users were occupying)

and some of said gadget users we writing too - I didn't check for calculators but I am telling you it was like a library..

anyway.. think I'll ask in my fav cafe next time i am in

An easy and obvious compromise that you already see in a lot of European cities is to give a time sensitive wifi password valid for 30 minutes printed on the receipt of every purchase for a certain minimum value. The actual wi-fi itself is still free of course, it just goes to paying customers only. 30 minutes seems an adequate amount of time for anyone to finish a hot drink, so now you either buy another one or else get lost and free up the tables and chairs.

Penny Tration

I work in a coffee place and we (staff in my place) get on great with the regulars who come in to do some work.

Most of them stay for a number of hours, yeah, and may only buy one (sometimes two) coffees. But they're friendly, chatty, clean up after themselves, always polite, happy to move to a smaller table if we get busy, and are generally the easiest customers to deal with.


They can hog the Wi-Fi all they like, I genuinely like them all.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Penny Tration

Patww79 wrote: »

I don't think it's the WiFi people care about them hogging, it's the tables. Though if it's a quiet place then it wouldn't really matter.

Place I work is very busy, but the people who use the Wi-Fi for hours on end are sound about it. They'll come in early when it's quiet, charge up the laptop, and move to a small table as soon as it starts to get busy, to make room for the groups needing 4/6 seaters. They know our busy times of the day, and move to make space when we're having our busy periods


Maybe my customers are nicer than others, though.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

pilly

Deleted User wrote:

An easy and obvious compromise that you already see in a lot of European cities is to give a time sensitive wifi password valid for 30 minutes printed on the receipt of every purchase for a certain minimum value. The actual wi-fi itself is still free of course, it just goes to paying customers only. 30 minutes seems an adequate amount of time for anyone to finish a hot drink, so now you either buy another one or else get lost and free up the tables and chairs.

I don't know, that just smacks of money grabbing to be honest.

Jesus Wept

TheDoc wrote: »

To be honest any of my team told me they were more productive in a coffee shop then in the office or at home, I'd 100% think they were taking the piss.

I've always assumed people on laptops in coffee shops simply don't have internet at home, were workaholics or just gadget freaks or socially awkward.

I'd never in a million years consider a coffee shop a productive place of work :O

You sound delightful to work for m8

Erik Shin

Je suis Mario wrote: »

You sound delightful to work for m8

What a weird reply....

Jesus Wept

Why?

whippet

TheDoc wrote: »

To be honest any of my team told me they were more productive in a coffee shop then in the office or at home, I'd 100% think they were taking the piss.

I've always assumed people on laptops in coffee shops simply don't have internet at home, were workaholics or just gadget freaks or socially awkward.

I'd never in a million years consider a coffee shop a productive place of work :O

Trust ... it a great part of being in a team. I'm in a sales based role so if the numbers stack up at the end of a quarter I'm being productive.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

I don't know, that just smacks of money grabbing to be honest.

But why? These are commercial businesses who need to be profitable in order to cover wages, rates, utilities, rent, etc etc. I would imagine making money is very much to the forefront of priorities for both small family cafes to massive global chains. We're not talking about subsidised council run libraries here where you can sit around all day with your feet up.

pilly

Deleted User wrote:

But why? These are commercial businesses who need to be profitable in order to cover wages, rates, utilities, rent, etc etc. I would imagine making money is very much to the forefront of priorities for both small family cafes to massive global chains. We're not talking about subsidised council run libraries here where you can sit around all day with your feet up.

Yeah but very few cafes are full all day, just no need for it.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

Yeah but very few cafes are full all day, just no need for it.

I know that but you said it was "money grabbing" when they're not actually charging people anything. The drinks are still the same price, the wifi is still free, they're giving you everything you paid them for, and they are not actually throwing you out on the stroke of 30 mins because a wifi password you may not have even wanted has expired.

prinzeugen

Most of the people on laptops in coffee shops are to tight to by internet or want to pose (think Brian Griffin "writing his novel" in the coffee shop in Family Guy).

Now we have the good weather, watch for the big increase in posers outside cafes either reading or " writing" novels all the while looking round to see who is looking at them.

Bit like the people that did similar things with mobiles in the mid to late 90's..

Its all "oooh look at me"..

sporina

Deleted User wrote: »

An easy and obvious compromise that you already see in a lot of European cities is to give a time sensitive wifi password valid for 30 minutes printed on the receipt of every purchase for a certain minimum value. The actual wi-fi itself is still free of course, it just goes to paying customers only. 30 minutes seems an adequate amount of time for anyone to finish a hot drink, so now you either buy another one or else get lost and free up the tables and chairs.

this sounds clever and economical and fair

and yes the wifi is not the issue - as regards to hogging it - its the tables I am talking about..

TBH I would feel cheeky if I sat in a cafe with a laptop and proceeded to do college work or work or what ever, for hours having only perhaps bought a coffee - and especially if I thought that potential paying customers who wanted food or what ever had to leave due to lack of a table

ProudDUB

pilly wrote: »

Yeah but very few cafes are full all day, just no need for it.

Yeah, but cafes make the bulk of their profits at peak breakfast and lunch times. They need to turn the tables over as quickly and as often as possible. They can't do that, if everyone comes in at 11am, orders one coffee and stays there untill 2pm on their laptop. To make a profit, the cafe need to have several sets of customers coming in, sitting at that table, eating their food and leaving within a reasonable time frame, leaving the table free for someone else to take their place. (I'm talking about cafes that serve proper, hot food, not just somewhere that serves coffee and muffins.) The industrial estate that I work in has only offices. The entire place shuts down at 5, so the cafe that services it, only as a finute number of hours in the day to turn a profit. Cafes that stay open later in the evening have a wider window of opportunity, but the ones that serve the 9-5 crowd really don't. I don't blame them if they turn off/limit the wifi to deter table hoggers.