Should I get an EV if I don't have home charging? [Split Thread]

Cupra280

I have to say that I would love to try an EV.

However, I live in an apartment with communal (outside) parking that is not designated. Also, there are no charging ports close to work. My daily commute is 80km, so I am guessing that if I went EV, I could get away with charging every other day. But I would have to depend on public charging points. Do any of the EV early adopters here think that would pose a problem?

You'll get P1ssed off at public points for sure, unless however you can get away with maybe a few days out of a 20-30 min charge and can live with it. Then if you need to take a long trip at the weekend you'll have to visit a charge point before you head off, or you could work it that you charge it the night before.

What's your daily Km needs ?

KCross

Cupra280 wrote: »

I have to say that I would love to try an EV.

However, I live in an apartment with communal (outside) parking that is not designated. Also, there are no charging ports close to work. My daily commute is 80km, so I am guessing that if I went EV, I could get away with charging every other day. But I would have to depend on public charging points. Do any of the EV early adopters here think that would pose a problem?

An ideal solution would be to ask work to install a charger for you. Is that remotely possible at all?

Cupra280

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll get P1ssed off at public points for sure, unless however you can get away with maybe a few days out of a 20-30 min charge and can live with it. Then if you need to take a long trip at the weekend you'll have to visit a charge point before you head off, or you could work it that you charge it the night before.

What's your daily Km needs ?

It's 40km each way, 80km a day on weekdays. Weekends can be moveable, can go from anywhere from 20km to 400km, depending on what's happening.

KCross wrote: »

An ideal solution would be to ask work to install a charger for you. Is that remotely possible at all?

Sounds ideal, but that wouldn't be a runner.

cros13

For the moment I'd recommend against an EV if you can't charge at home.

In 18-24 months cars will be on the market that will change the math on that.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

For the moment I'd recommend against an EV if you can't charge at home.

Agreed, unless you have a FCP near you that is very handy for you. Mine is 2km away from where I live, on a road I pass several times a day anyway and at a shopping centre where I do my shopping and where my favourite take away is

I have a home charge point, but fast charging is so convenient that I could easily live without my home charge point

goz83

Cupra280 wrote: »

I have to say that I would love to try an EV.

However, I live in an apartment with communal (outside) parking that is not designated. Also, there are no charging ports close to work. My daily commute is 80km, so I am guessing that if I went EV, I could get away with charging every other day. But I would have to depend on public charging points. Do any of the EV early adopters here think that would pose a problem?

Look into the possibility of getting a charge point installed where you park at home....especially if you own the place. If it's not possible, then an EV is not what you should be looking at right now. However, a PHEV might be a good option.

grogi

goz83 wrote: »

Look into the possibility of getting a charge point installed where you park at home....especially if you own the place. If it's not possible, then an EV is not what you should be looking at right now. However, a PHEV might be a good option.

PHEV make even less sense in that case... You'd pay the PHEV premium, carry additional weight, not be able to charge in reasonable speed while not be able to charge at home.

Makes no sense at all.

Cupra280

Cupra280 wrote: »

It's 40km each way, 80km a day on weekdays. Weekends can be moveable, can go from anywhere from 20km to 400km, depending on what's happening.

The only way to get any kind of an idea if you would tolerate public charging as your only means of charging is to get a 2 day test drive, preferably in the Hyunday Ioniq as it charges very fast from the fast chargers, 30%-90% in 25 mins, enough for up to 160-170 Kms. And it's got up to about 200 Kms range on 100% charge.

You could hold off another year for longer range electrics, only thing is that the larger the battery the longer to charge.

goz83

grogi wrote: »

PHEV make even less sense in that case... You'd pay the PHEV premium, carry additional weight, not be able to charge in reasonable speed while not be able to charge at home.

Makes no sense at all.

I said:

goz83 wrote: »

However, a PHEV might be a good option.

A phev could get the OP to work in EV mode alone. There could be access to a CP nearby. For longer journeys, the ICE engine is a nice back-up. Short journeys would be covered in EV mode. So, it might be a good option. We don't know everything about the OPs driving needs.

cros13

Right I'm going to split this discussion out 'cause it's not OT to the Model 3.

grogi

goz83 wrote: »

I said:

However, a PHEV might be a good option.

Technically you're right - everything might anything else... We live in quantum world, probability is never 0.

goz83 wrote: »

A phev could get the OP to work in EV mode alone. There could be access to a CP nearby. For longer journeys, the ICE engine is a nice back-up. Short journeys would be covered in EV mode. So, it might be a good option. We don't know everything about the OPs driving needs.

And where would he get the juice for EV from? PHEV cannot charge fast, so there would be equally long wait for fully charge a PHEV as to fully charge a BEV. Makes no sense...

PHEV make (barery) sense only when you have home charging and your daily commute is covered by the EV range. So you effectively run an EV on your commute. But you are not affected by the range anxiety and are not limiting yourself to the range of EV - still can do Dublin-Cork-Dublin without stopping if you really need to.

goz83

grogi wrote: »

Technically you're right

And where would he get the juice for EV from? PHEV cannot charge fast, so there would be equally long wait for fully charge a PHEV as to fully charge a BEV. Makes no sense...

.

goz83 wrote: »

A phev could get the OP to work in EV mode alone. There could be access to a CP nearby. For longer journeys, the ICE engine is a nice back-up. Short journeys would be covered in EV mode. So, it might be a good option. We don't know everything about the OPs driving needs.

Gumbo

I have my Leaf since 2nd March.
No home charger.
I am lucky enough to have chargers in work but they are hit and miss and I'm lucky if I get 30% from them daily.

When I do plug I have to down 2-3 times to reset the charge point and it trips off.
I actually would be better of stopping at the FCP for 15 mins everyday on the way home.

I do this every now and again, if I need bread, milk etc I go the garage and plug in for 15 mins.

KCross

kceire wrote: »

When I do plug I have to down 2-3 times to reset the charge point and it trips off.
I actually would be better of stopping at the FCP for 15 mins everyday on the way home.

Thats a PITA. Why don't they just fix that? Is it a wrong spec breaker maybe.

Gumbo

KCross wrote: »

Thats a PITA. Why don't they just fix that? Is it a wrong spec breaker maybe.

Not sure. Facilities are aware as the lad has a leaf also.
He is pricing a replacement and I believe we may be getting one or 2 more

I arrived into work at 10.30 today and plugged in. I had to go down at 11.30 and reset and then it charged away until 1.30 when I left no problem.

mordeith

grogi wrote: »

- still can do Dublin-Cork-Dublin without stopping if you really need to.

Not having a go at you here just to clarify but can someone explain why Dublin - Cork is the seemingly holy grail for EVs. When we got ours everyone was like 'but what if you need to drive to Dublin'. You know what, I've never needed to drive to Dublin.

Mope

I think it's simply because everyone knows how is the road, how many km, how many hills and etc. Kind of a benchmark

cros13

And almost the longest journey people in Ireland regularly do.

BoatMad

kceire wrote: »

I have my Leaf since 2nd March.
No home charger.
I am lucky enough to have chargers in work but they are hit and miss and I'm lucky if I get 30% from them daily.

When I do plug I have to down 2-3 times to reset the charge point and it trips off.
I actually would be better of stopping at the FCP for 15 mins everyday on the way home.

I do this every now and again, if I need bread, milk etc I go the garage and plug in for 15 mins.

That's fine until you 2 EVs deep at the FCp and the delay is now the best part of an hour.

Relying on daily fcp access is gong to make you very annoyed

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

That's fine until you 2 EVs deep at the FCp and the delay is now the best part of an hour.

Relying on daily fcp access is gong to make you very annoyed

I kind of agree after 9 months of usage at Naas, not all the time, sometimes I charged at Newlands Cross on night shift but you'd be surprised how many times you meet people charging between 1 and 3 am !

Naas was an awful spot but not every time of course. If there were 3 chargers you'd have people more aware that there are more chargers for free usage and so more people would go more often. We need to bill for usage.

My attitude now is get the most range you can afford for greater independence of the network.

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

That's fine until you 2 EVs deep at the FCp and the delay is now the best part of an hour.

You do know if there are people charging or not (app / ecars website), I only go if I know no one is charging (and it takes me 3 minutes to get there)

BoatMad wrote: »

Relying on daily fcp access is gong to make you very annoyed

I wouldn't have bought an EV if my daily commute required a charge. I'm the opposite, I have total flexibility in when I can go charge as more often than not I either work from home, or no more than a 15 minute drive away and I pass my local FCP several times a day anyway

stesaurus

unkel wrote: »

You do know if there are people charging or not (app / ecars website), I only go if I know no one is charging (and it takes me 3 minutes to get there)



I wouldn't have bought an EV if my daily commute required a charge. I'm the opposite, I have total flexibility in when I can go charge as more often than not I either work from home, or no more than a 15 minute drive away and I pass my local FCP several times a day anyway

Don't rely on the app it's not always accurate

BoatMad

stesaurus wrote: »

Don't rely on the app it's not always accurate

And there can be unto 20 mins before a status update appears on the app. Using it to " judge " when a unit is free is very dodgy

Not only that but it won't tell u if someone is on way to the charger....

unkel

I don't rely on the app, but any time I did test it for my local FCP, it was correct. And no it won't tell if anyone is on the way to the charger, but that person is probably me as I only live 3 minutes away

I do have a "range anxiety" fear about having to occasionally go bigger distances with the family on board. There are ridiculously few FCP in Ireland and what if I needed to fast charge and there were 3 people in front of me? Herself and the kids would not be impressed. And the fact that you can only fast charge one car at a time at any of the fast chargers already looks ridiculous and we only have 2000 EVs in this country...

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

I don't rely on the app, but any time I did test it for my local FCP, it was correct. And no it won't tell if anyone is on the way to the charger, but that person is probably me as I only live 3 minutes away

I do have a "range anxiety" fear about having to occasionally go bigger distances with the family on board. There are ridiculously few FCP in Ireland and what if I needed to fast charge and there were 3 people in front of me? Herself and the kids would not be impressed. And the fact that you can only fast charge one car at a time at any of the fast chargers already looks ridiculous and we only have 2000 EVs in this country...

12 months , you'll take the EV everywhere,

we simply don't consider taking anything else , unless there is an overriding reason ( usually towing something )

Also outside of a few pinch points in Dublin , most fcps are not busy

Of course the Chademo position is considerably better then CCS,especially when you add in the Nissan garages

Gumbo

BoatMad wrote: »

That's fine until you 2 EVs deep at the FCp and the delay is now the best part of an hour.

Relying on daily fcp access is gong to make you very annoyed

I don't rely on the public network tbh
My work gives me enough to get to the next day.
My local FCP is 2 minutes drive from the house and is unbelievably accurate with regards to occupied or not, in fact it's the only FCP I've used that when I connect up, within a minute the app shows the occupied icon (Topaz Glasnevin).

I was in the office today and got to 100%, currently at 58% and I know that's enough to get me around north Dublin tomorrow and my last site is raheny so I'll come home the N32, plug in for 20 mins and then I'm back to full for the Friday and most of the weekend.

I do agree that it will be a lot easier when I do get a charge point installed but it wouldn't stop be buying again.

BoatMad

kceire wrote: »

I don't rely on the public network tbh
My work gives me enough to get to the next day.
My local FCP is 2 minutes drive from the house and is unbelievably accurate with regards to occupied or not, in fact it's the only FCP I've used that when I connect up, within a minute the app shows the occupied icon (Topaz Glasnevin).

I was in the office today and got to 100%, currently at 58% and I know that's enough to get me around north Dublin tomorrow and my last site is raheny so I'll come home the N32, plug in for 20 mins and then I'm back to full for the Friday and most of the weekend.

I do agree that it will be a lot easier when I do get a charge point installed but it wouldn't stop be buying again.

Glasnevin being one of the most unreliable fcps due to vandalism !

Gumbo

BoatMad wrote: »

Glasnevin being one of the most unreliable fcps due to vandalism !

Maybe. It's been down once since I bought on 2nd March.
Topaz Clonshaugh has been down more often than Glasnevin from my experience.

I don't use any others.

Shefwedfan

My recommendation is if you are buying an electric car you should be including the cost for home charge point.

I have used the public system once, after an error on my first charge. Since then I have never used. I am going to try and go to fast charger some day, maybe this weekend but it is more out of curiosity.

I have charge point at home, one of our offices has installed charge points and I am hoping the other office will follow suit. With the range on car I will have more than enough for my daily trips.

Everyone I have talked to who hasn't an electric car has bad opinion because they read forums/facebook with all these people moaning about charging. I got my charge point installed for circa 250 and charger free with car.....if you are spending 10-30k on electric car why can't you pay a few hundred to get a charge point at home? by all means after that if you want to use the network go ahead but don't bitch & moan about it because you have no other option

goz83

Shefwedfan wrote: »

if you are spending 10-30k on electric car why can't you pay a few hundred to get a charge point at home? by all means after that if you want to use the network go ahead but don't bitch & moan about it because you have no other option

So say we all

ei9go

Had the Zoe for 2 months before I installed the chargepoint.

Could have done without it because every charger is effectively a fast charger with the Zoe due to the capability to charge at 22kw on the SCP's.

The standard charge points usually charge it in about 45 mins so you are not dependant on the FCP's at all.

Mope

and that's sole big advantage of owning Zoe... If only other cars would have at least half of Zoe SCP capability :]

BoatMad

Mope wrote: »

and that's sole big advantage of owning Zoe... If only other cars would have at least half of Zoe SCP capability :]

Destination charging is not a substitute for motorway-side large scale dc charging

There is no ability to accomadate large scale EV usage via destination or roadside scp charging infrastructure , the roadside space is not available ( as is abundantly clear from the DCC position )

The future is large scale , but relatively few in number charge parks , largely outside urban centres along major transport routes.

Your suggestion is going backwards , the AC route is limited technically , the future is 100-300 kw DC charging , not humping around a great big AC charger in the car

I predict AC charging will completely die out in time , hone evse will be dc ( and subject to smart metering ) there is no future in AC as it can't handle larger batteries and greater charge rates

Mope

You are right, I was more talking about current situation (and most likely it's mostly Irish problem with so many SCPs and so few FCPs). Zoe has an advantage in Ireland.

BoatMad

Mope wrote: »

You are right, I was more talking about current situation (and most likely it's mostly Irish problem with so many SCPs and so few FCPs). Zoe has an advantage in Ireland.

The advantage is more perceived then real. Right now there is no queuing issuing in the vast majority of FCPS , with the exception of a few specific places . And personally I prefer to charge at 50 kW then 22!!

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

I predict AC charging will completely die out in time , hone evse will be dc ( and subject to smart metering ) there is no future in AC as it can't handle larger batteries and greater charge rates

What timeframe you talking? 20yrs, 50yrs?

I would have thought the limiting factor at home isn't so much about whether its AC or DC but what your local transformer and house connection can take so what is to gain by moving to DC?

Wouldn't making 3-phase affordable be a better direction?

Mope

BoatMad wrote: »

The advantage is more perceived then real. Right now there is no queuing issuing in the vast majority of FCPS , with the exception of a few specific places . And personally I prefer to charge at 50 kW then 22!!

Yes, there are no queues because FCPs are non existing in so many places where SCP are :-) This is the only real reason I'd take 22kW charge over 50kW

Look at West of Ireland (Ring Of Kerry area, Dingle and further North).

BoatMad

Mope wrote: »

Yes, there are no queues because FCPs are non existing in so many places where SCP are :-) This is the only real reason I'd take 22kW charge over 50kW

Look at West of Ireland (Ring Of Kerry area, Dingle and further North).

Nobody lives there relatively speaking , that's why there are few or no chargers , no more then trying to find a diesel station open after 10 pm down the west !!

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

And personally I prefer to charge at 50 kW then 22!!

Personally, I rather get into a charged car and drive off, or at least enough range to get me to the next destination. DC does not offer this advantage.

Yes I like to charge as fast as possible when I need to but when I don't 6.6 Kw AC is the dogs Bollocks !

I imagine the AC points will eventually be replaced with 20 odd Kw DC, again, the reason being is that we don't need to charge in minimal time all the time.

BoatMad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Personally, I rather get into a charged car and drive off, or at least enough range to get me to the next destination. DC does not offer this advantage.

Yes I like to charge as fast as possible when I need to but when I don't 6.6 Kw AC is the dogs Bollocks !

I imagine the AC points will eventually be replaced with 20 odd Kw DC, again, the reason being is that we don't need to charge in minimal time all the time.

If anything , it's likely that roadside SCPs style charging will change , firstly co cos are reluctant to a lot any more space ( from first hand discussions ) and secondly dcc actually wants many removed. ( and has told eCars )

Secondly high power AC charging is now limited to a few EVs and unlikely to be a growth area.

We are more likely to see 7-10 kw style destination chargers arguably in pay to park carparks ( raising the spectre of dual billing )

I don't much future in the current SCPs plan and I know that eCars think that way also ( now)

Which is why I said we'll most likely see them replaced or new (scp's) change to 20 Kw DC points.

unkel

I doubt any public SCPs will be replaced or new ones installed. They are not the way of the future. Private ones, sure. Public charging points should be FCP only.

ELM327

BoatMad wrote: »

The advantage is more perceived then real. Right now there is no queuing issuing in the vast majority of FCPS , with the exception of a few specific places . And personally I prefer to charge at 50 kW then 22!!

Agreed. However on a 24 kWh leaf (which still make up the vast majority of EV's on our roads) I worked out the charging curve to be closer to 22kW average speed than 50. Especially if it's the first charge. I have seen single digit speeds at FCP below 80%. Especially on the older units (Templeville and clondalkin being prime examples).

I think the future is DC, much like the future is CCS. But we are not there yet, and in the current Irish environment, AC is king. Especiially the Zoe but even the likes of an 11kW I3.

I would predict that in 15 years from now there will be little or no public AC points, and even destination charging will be DC (like 15-20 kW chademo/CCS).

As I say, we are not there yet but I think that's where we are going, and the current AC charging will be viewed then like the paddle charging is viewed now from the original Rav4 EV, ford ranger EV etc from the early 2000s.

Mope

unkel wrote: »

I doubt any public SCPs will be replaced or new ones installed. They are not the way of the future. Private ones, sure. Public charging points should be FCP only.

But this is what Mad_Lad is saying. SCP will become smaller FCPs, with 20kW DC or more.

unkel

20kW DC is a slow charge point

I can only see a future of public fast charge points, I'm talking the 350kW ones being installed already (not in Ireland :rolleyes:). There should be 400 of these points installed all over Europe by the end of this year

And probably a lot more of them and more power again in the near future

BoatMad

the use of publicly accessible " destination " style charging , using low power ( < 50 Kw) simply is not a scaleable solution, the real estate demands are far too excessive to make it practically possible to scale up SCP style charging to handle any significant numbers of EVs

In addition the increase in range , will mean that the usefulness of SCP style charging will decline and wither

I agree with unkel . The future is large capacity high power DC charging must likely concentrated in a few areas with many chargers , backed by domestic night charging for regular medium distance journeys

we need to forgot about SCP style charging

unkel

+1

People need to try to look forward, not be grounded with their ideas by the car they have right now.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

I doubt any public SCPs will be replaced or new ones installed. They are not the way of the future. Private ones, sure. Public charging points should be FCP only.

Why's that ? why go to the expense of a FCP when an SCP will do the job ?

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

+1

People need to try to look forward, not be grounded with their ideas by the car they have right now.

Even if the next gen 2020 EV cars have 100kWh batteries as standard with 350 kW DC charging, If you fit that car with an 11kW AC charger or even a 7kW, it would charge overnight.

I don't ever foresee a day - nor would I ever purchase one - where an EV would be sold with DC only charging. That would mean no granny cable charging which has proved invaluable and gotten me out of a couple of situations.

How much would installing a 20kW CCS/Chademo unit at your house and wiring it cost? Can we even do that, there wouldn't be enough electricity at each substation to meet multiple 20kW demands side by side at peak load. The supply may be at the grid but if the local network can't deliver it, who pays for the upgrade?


DC only is not going to happen in our lifetimes. You can quote this post in 10 years lol.