Prime Time tonight 9.30 - Diesel Cars

Atlantic Dawn

I see Prime Time are covering a piece on diesel cars tonight...

https://twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/857688087715074048

Donal55

Grow some balls Noonan and increase the tax on diesels.

NIMAN

And lower it on petrols

Fiskar

The end is nigh for diesels, another opportunity for the Government to suck more cash from the motorist.

Ubbquittious

A big propaganda piece warming us all up for a punishment for buying the cars they have been telling us to buy for the past 10 years?

Ubbquittious

Ubbquittious wrote: »

A big propaganda piece warming us all up for a punishment for buying the cars they have been telling us to buy for the past 10 years?

It's very real, the science speaks for itself. What has transpired is that clean diesel was a total con based on emissions testing in lab environments.

listermint

"you can't now penalise the family that bought a diesel 3 years ago because that is what the Irish government wanted them to do"

Erm didn't they do that to the entire nation in 2008........

Atlantic Dawn

There's no NCT measure of diesel emissions and no checks for cars with DPF's removed, correcting that should be the first step.

Atlantic Dawn

Our CO2 emissions on this tiny rock in the atlantic will make such a difference to the world :rolleyes:

Miike

I sometimes imagine the motors forum as it were a room full of people and then I look into a corner and see a select few rocking, holding their knees to their chest repeating a mantra of "Diesel bad, petrol good, diesel kill, petrol good" over and over.

oppenheimer1

Miike wrote: »

I sometimes imagine the motors forum as it were a room full of people and then I look into a corner and see a select few rocking in a corner holding their knees to their chest repeating a mantra of "Diesel bad, petrol good, diesel kill, petrol good" over and over.

Imagine?!

listermint

Miike wrote: »

I sometimes imagine the motors forum as it were a room full of people and then I look into a corner and see a select few rocking in a corner holding their knees to their chest repeating a mantra of "Diesel bad, petrol good, diesel kill, petrol good" over and over.

Yeah ok...

quadrifoglio verde

As a diesel driver, I'd support paying 20c a litre extra if the money was ring fenced for investment in public transport infrastructure.
By that I mean actual infrastructure such as metro north, dart underground and improved bus services nationwide.

However, because it would never actually go towards funding proper public transport infrastructure as that doesn't win elections, I'm completely against any hikes in diesel prices.

mikeecho

Just turned in.. i think I'll have to watch rte1+1

But I presume it'll be the usual eco friendly, rare snail loving, hippy, crap.

Maybe I should just buy a few ibc' s and stock up on fuel.

Shur, if the environmentalists don't get us, maybe trumps nuclear war will .

quadrifoglio verde

mikeecho wrote: »

Just turned in.. i think I'll have to watch rte1+1

But I presume it'll be the usual eco friendly, rare snail loving, hippy, crap.

Maybe I should just buy a few ibc' s and stock up on fuel.

Shur, if the environmentalists don't get us, maybe trumps nuclear war will .

Hippy love from friends of the earth.

Simi guy hinting at banning imports of older diesel cars from the UK and that we should be encouraging older car owners to buy new cars.
Hmmmm

listermint

Not really, as usual we will follow the other large European cities. Diesels will be charged or banned out of city's. Be smart go electric that's the direction everything will be going in the next 5 years

If you can't see it now already the writing is on the wall for diesel in the small vehicles form factor.

Electric is just on the cusp of mass acceptance, the ranges are coming end of year start of 2018

Just like the end of Nokia style mobile phones into touch screen this change will be swift and fast all it took was it to make sense and reach acceptance

Atlantic Dawn

mikeecho wrote: »

Just turned in.. i think I'll have to watch rte1+1

But I presume it'll be the usual eco friendly, rare snail loving, hippy, crap.

Maybe I should just buy a few ibc' s and stock up on fuel.

Shur, if the environmentalists don't get us, maybe trumps nuclear war will .

It's more to do with particulates from diesel emissions going in to peoples lungs and killing some of them, a sort of diet version of asbestos back in the day. It's the environmentalists that brought this problem to us.

oppenheimer1

listermint wrote: »

Not really, as usual we will follow the other large European cities. Diesels will be charged or banned out of city's. Be smart go electric that's the direction everything will be going in the next 5 years

If you can't see it now already the writing is on the wall for diesel in the small vehicles form factor.

Electric is just on the cusp of mass acceptance, the ranges are coming end of year start of 2018

Just like the end of Nokia style mobile phones into touch screen this change will be swift and fast all it took was it to make sense and reach acceptance

Petrol is finished also. What I find funny about these threads where are the hate is on diesel is the assumption that if policy is reversed on diesel that they're will be a petrol Renaissance. There won't be.

quadrifoglio verde

listermint wrote: »

Not really, as usual we will follow the other large European cities. Diesels will be charged or banned out of city's. Be smart go electric that's the direction everything will be going in the next 5 years

If you can't see it now already the writing is on the wall for diesel in the small vehicles form factor.

Electric is just on the cusp of mass acceptance, the ranges are coming end of year start of 2018

Just like the end of Nokia style mobile phones into touch screen this change will be swift and fast all it took was it to make sense and reach acceptance

Agreed. Got a spin in an i3 from cros13 at the last motors meet.
Holy feck the acceleration to 60 mph was fast.

Damien360

cisk wrote: »

It's very real, the science speaks for itself. What has transpired is that clean diesel was a total con based on emissions testing in lab environments.

From very early on they knew the Euro IV engine increased SO2 emmisions. Remember the acid rain talk in your geography in school. That's the culprit. Along with that were particulates which was higher but more importantly the lab result bore no relation to real world use of your car. All this to bring down CO2 levels.

An important point was mentioned by the presenter tonight. Do we need to reverse some of these CO2 gains to improve public health with particulates. We can't have it every way and there is a balance.

Conor from AA kept saying the government told everyone via policy in 2008 to switch to diesels. There is truth in that but the government defence is they didn't know. That is untrue. They were waiting for the Euro V and VI engines to sort that issue out. But it was found that it is not possible to have low CO2 (the big push globally) without increasing SO2 which has higher particulate matter.

The fix will be tax increase to push everyone down EV route. And then we will come to the heavy metals in the batteries with a new tax to follow. Your electricity supplier is to become the new Shell.

colm_mcm

I wonder what the environmental impact of burning gorse is, I know it's a pest but surely burning it produces a lot of nasty pollutants?

What about abandoned local authority houses, limerick for example has a lot of houses that are condemned for demolition, but instead of knocking them they do a half ass job of boarding them up and then they inevitably get burned out, I wonder envorinmental impact of that is.

Similarly, burning copper cable on a campfire can't be good for the air either.

Stripping the bog lands to make peat briquettes or fuel for electricity generation can't be good can it?


Seems they only want to reduce emissions on paper by of taxation.

Donal55

colm_mcm wrote: »

I wonder what the environmental impact of burning gorse is, I know it's a pest but surely burning it produces a lot of nasty pollutants?

What about abandoned local authority houses, limerick for example has a lot of houses that are condemned for demolition, but instead of knocking them they do a half ass job of boarding them up and then they inevitably get burned out, I wonder envorinmental impact of that is.

Similarly, burning copper cable on a campfire can't be good for the air either.

Stripping the bog lands to make peat briquettes or fuel for electricity generation can't be good can it?


Seems they only want to reduce emissions on paper by of taxation.

Don't forget the one that they dare not speak its name.










METHANE.

oppenheimer1

colm_mcm wrote: »

I wonder what the environmental impact of burning gorse is, I know it's a pest but surely burning it produces a lot of nasty pollutants?

What about abandoned local authority houses, limerick for example has a lot of houses that are condemned for demolition, but instead of knocking them they do a half ass job of boarding them up and then they inevitably get burned out, I wonder envorinmental impact of that is.

Similarly, burning copper cable on a campfire can't be good for the air either.

Stripping the bog lands to make peat briquettes or fuel for electricity generation can't be good can it?


Seems they only want to reduce emissions on paper by of taxation.

Indeed, one of the main culprits of the reduction in air quality inn London had been the increase in timber Burnings​ stoves. One stove can emit the same pm as 100 diesel vehicles.

Damien360

colm_mcm wrote: »

I wonder what the environmental impact of burning gorse is, I know it's a pest but surely burning it produces a lot of nasty pollutants?

What about abandoned local authority houses, limerick for example has a lot of houses that are condemned for demolition, but instead of knocking them they do a half ass job of boarding them up and then they inevitably get burned out, I wonder envorinmental impact of that is.

Similarly, burning copper cable on a campfire can't be good for the air either.

Stripping the bog lands to make peat briquettes or fuel for electricity generation can't be good can it?


Seems they only want to reduce emissions on paper by of taxation.

Ever wondered about power stations ? Burning fossil fuels. Lots of emmisions there also. That would be the same power stations to power the new EV world.

colm_mcm

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Indeed, one of the main culprits of the reduction in air quality inn London had been the increase in timber Burnings​ stoves. One stove can emit the same pm as 100 diesel vehicles.

Catalytic converters for cows I reckon.

Damien360 wrote: »

Ever wondered about power stations ? Burning fossil fuels. Lots of emmisions there also. That would be the same power stations to power the new EV world.

Some EV owners would tell you their electricity is coming from wind turbines.


I honestly think cheaper (even subsidised) electricity is the way to go, but supplying the demand would be the problem I'd say.
There'd be no reason anyone should have to burn oil or turf if cheaper electricity for storage heating was available. Open fires are nice, but they're antiquated.

Nobody wants to be the one to suggest nuclear.

Almost identical piece on newsnight on BBC. We are only somewhat in less of a urgent position due to our cities relatively low population compared to London, Paris or Mexico City.

Miike

http://www.industrytap.com/worlds-15-biggest-ships-create-more-pollution-than-all-the-cars-in-the-world/8182

Let the tyranny of abuse begin.

Damien360

colm_mcm wrote: »

Catalytic converters for cows I reckon.



Some EV owners would tell you their electricity is coming from wind turbines.

There was a brilliant thread on boards a few months back on the cost and sustainability of wind turbines. Costly feckers and they need a lot of maintainence. They are not supplying much to the grid on a regular basis. They cannot be relied upon as they need wind (oddly enough).

Atlantic Dawn

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Indeed, one of the main culprits of the reduction in air quality inn London had been the increase in timber Burnings​ stoves. One stove can emit the same pm as 100 diesel vehicles.

How these timber burning stoves are allowed in built up areas is beyond me. Almost every show of Room To Improve they install one, even in built up areas where the stink from them pours out over the neighbours houses.

CoolHandBandit

Just another way to tax the plebs.

Atoms for Peace

That SIMI guy was talking out his hole; thousands of older diesels being imported from Europe?

Miike

Lest we not forget they're in the process of allowing the cement factory in Limerick burn tires

Damien360

Miike wrote: »

Lest we not forget they're in the process of allowing the cement factory in Limerick burn tires

And the incinerator in Dublin burning rubbish.

colm_mcm

Miike wrote: »

Lest we not forget they're in the process of allowing the cement factory in Limerick burn tires

Don't they already do that in Platin in Louth though?

BorneTobyWilde

It's all those farting cows that are the problem.

Miike

colm_mcm wrote: »

Don't they already do that in Platin in Louth though?

Yep! But thats a different kind of emissions you see. The burning of tires produces good emissions that cause trees to flourish and lung capacity to increase.

Ubbquittious

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Petrol is finished also. What I find funny about these threads where are the hate is on diesel is the assumption that if policy is reversed on diesel that they're will be a petrol Renaissance. There won't be.

That's a pity. I was hoping they'd be putting brightly coloured 70's 1.3L petrol cars back into production

mikeecho

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

That SIMI guy was talking out his hole; thousands of older diesels being imported from Europe?

Are you suggesting that the SIMI guy is suggesting that we buy new Irish cars......

Why would he want that .. oh . Hang on .....





Ahhh..... SIMI want us to buy more new cars.







........ what's new

Akrasia

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Our CO2 emissions on this tiny rock in the atlantic will make such a difference to the world :rolleyes:

You can say that about everywhere in the world. But add them all up and we've got waterworld

Atlantic Dawn

Akrasia wrote: »

You can say that about everywhere in the world. But add them all up and we've got waterworld

You have people here in a 1 litre car paying ?200 a year motor tax, you have the US with no motor tax and fuel at about 60% of the price here, their average engine size would be 2 litre plus, not a bother on them.

colm_mcm

Akrasia wrote: »

You can say that about everywhere in the world. But add them all up and we've got waterworld

Not really, we are a phone charger whereas China is like having a hundred thousand immersion heaters on!
Sure, plugging out the charger will make a minuscule difference, but you won't see it in the bill.

Ubbquittious

cisk wrote: »

It's very real, the science speaks for itself. What has transpired is that clean diesel was a total con based on emissions testing in lab environments.

The emissions of the politicians promoting diesel when connected to a lie detector?

colm_mcm

cisk wrote: »

It's very real, the science speaks for itself. What has transpired is that clean diesel was a total con based on emissions testing in lab environments.

We knew it was a con at the time to be fair. It's not new information.

Akrasia

colm_mcm wrote: »

Not really, we are a USB charger whereas China is like a hundred thousand immersion heaters!
Sure, plugging out the charger will make a minuscule difference, but you won't see it in the bill.

We are a province of the EU. Just because Ireland is a small island doesn't mean we get to do nothing and point the finger at the most populous nation on earth.

colm_mcm

Akrasia wrote: »

We are a province of the EU. Just because Ireland is a small island doesn't mean we get to do nothing and point the finger at the most populous nation on earth.

Oh yeah, but there's a doing nothing, then there's looking to be doing something, taxing people more, then achieving nothing because there are so many other areas where we are polluting that are being ignored because it's easier to tax motorists.

Akrasia

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

You have people here in a 1 litre car paying ?200 a year motor tax, you have the US with no motor tax and fuel at about 60% of the price here, their average engine size would be 2 litre plus, not a bother on them.

It's not fair, but I don't want my future grandkids to be swimming to school. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

Ubbquittious

Akrasia wrote: »

We are a province of the EU. Just because Ireland is a small island doesn't mean we get to do nothing and point the finger at the most populous nation on earth.

The EU superstate is a thing now? In that case I think we're more of a county than a province

Ubbquittious

Akrasia wrote: »

It's not fair, but I don't want my future grandkids to be swimming to school. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

If ya don't want 'em swimming here's just the thing for you

http://www.adverts.ie/boats/rib-boat-with-yam-115/12750226

2-stroke. Ideal for the school run

Miike

Akrasia wrote: »

It's not fair, but I don't want my future grandkids to be swimming to school. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

Then you need to stop ships burning what is basically asphalt. Maersk turned over 61 billion USD profit last year. How much goes into green shipping R&D? or tax for their footprint?

Miike

Ubbquittious wrote: »

If ya don't want 'em swimming here's just the thing for you

http://www.adverts.ie/boats/rib-boat-with-yam-115/12750226

2-stroke. Ideal for the school run

Petrol. How common :rolleyes:

Akrasia

colm_mcm wrote: »

Oh yeah, but there's a doing nothing, then there's looking to be doing something, taxing people more, then achieving nothing because there are so many other areas where we are polluting that are being ignored because it's easier to tax motorists.

Let's not do that. Let's tackle the problem intelligently and properly, and that includes transitioning from fossil fuels in all our energy.. We're probably going to need a carbon negative economy for a while, and the longer we arse around the more its gonna cost