Paying a fine with coins

pudzey101

Asking for a friend foremost ....

Friend of mine got a 40e parking ticket , accepted the fact he let the ticket run out ... Went into pay it the following day with a jar full of 1 cent - 1 euro coins ( counted exactly to 40 euro .

Girl at the desk said they only accept notes or credit cards ( This was not in writing when he asked for that policy )


Whats the law regarding payment in buisness' or shops in Ireland ?


PS : he wasnt being smart/cheeky he counted out the correct amount and brought it in . Just wanted rid of the coins that built up over a period of months ?

vandriver

50 coins is the limit for legal tender.

10.—(1) No person, other than the Central Bank of Ireland and such persons as may be designated by the Minister by order, shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins denominated in euro or in cent in any single transaction.

From the monetary union act 1998

ceegee

pudzey101 wrote: »

Asking for a friend foremost ....

Friend of mine got a 40e parking ticket , accepted the fact he let the ticket run out ... Went into pay it the following day with a jar full of 1 cent - 1 euro coins ( counted exactly to 40 euro .

Girl at the desk said they only accept notes or credit cards ( This was not in writing when he asked for that policy )


Whats the law regarding payment in buisness' or shops in Ireland ?


PS : he wasnt being smart/cheeky he counted out the correct amount and brought it in . Just wanted rid of the coins that built up over a period of months ?

No obligation to accept more than 50 coins

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/38/section/10/enacted/en/html#zza38y1998s10

PM me nudes

Tell him to pay with notes and stop being a prick

pudzey101

vandriver wrote: »

50 coins is the limit for legal tender.

10.—(1) No person, other than the Central Bank of Ireland and such persons as may be designated by the Minister by order, shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins denominated in euro or in cent in any single transaction.

From the monetary union act 1998

cheers , so paying 40 1euro coins cant be refused legally right

Damien360

Very hard to find the specific legal tender info in a quick search but 50 coins or less springs to mind as being max allowed.

Edit: someone found the act above

Stoolbend

pudzey101 wrote: »

cheers , so paying 40 1euro coins cant be refused legally right

Why would anyone want to do this?

TherapyBoy

Stoolbend wrote: »

Why would anyone want to do this?

They consider it a victory, doing petty stuff like this.

Del2005

pudzey101 wrote: »

cheers , so paying 40 1euro coins cant be refused legally right

Yes, but all you do is slightly annoy the person at the counter. It doesn't affect "The Man" in the slightest. If you wanted you could make it 50 coins by using 50c coins as well as Euro.

pudzey101

sound will pass it on

J.pilkington

Hilarious, your friend while trying to be a smartass has ended up wasting a load more of their own time than they had planned;
- spent likely a fair bit of time counting out €40 in small coins,
- attended the council with probably great ambitions of beating the system, but was told to jog on,
- got you to research on the internet,
- will now go and count out €40 in more coins,
- print off the legislation quoted above,
- revisit the council with their print off and try pay again with coins and be as big of a Dick as they can if they are told no.

Seriously what a waste of people's times, your friend probably has nothing better to do, but spare the council workers time, they are the ones feeling the pain of this idiotic charade not the tds you are probably trying to inconvenience.

Homer

I often used to wonder what people who work for the council in offices actually did.. now I know.. Jesus fcuking wept.. how childish

hungry hypno toad

J.pilkington wrote: »

Hilarious, your friend while trying to be a smartass has ended up wasting a load more of their own time than they had planned;
- spent likely a fair bit of time counting out €40 in small coins,
- attended the council with probably great ambitions of beating the system, but was told to jog on,
- got you to research on the internet,
- will now go and count out €40 in more coins,
- print off the legislation quoted above,
- revisit the council with their print off and try pay again with coins and be as big of a Dick as they can if they are told no.

Seriously what a waste of people's times, your friend probably has nothing better to do, but spare the council workers time, they are the ones feeling the pain of this idiotic charade not the tds you are probably trying to inconvenience.

Time management wouldn't be the 'friends' forte otherwise he wouldn't have been fined.

OldMrBrennan83

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DMcL1971

Why is everyone having a go at the friend. It clearly states in the original post that he wasn't doing this as some form of protest but just getting rid of some spare coins.

pudzey101 wrote: »

PS : he wasnt being smart/cheeky he counted out the correct amount and brought it in . Just wanted rid of the coins that built up over a period of months ?

Buffman

Once you stick to the 50 coin limit, legal tender is legal tender, so don't see an issue myself. I'd see it as very hypocritical of them the be ignoring the law while expecting you to pay a fine.

Now, if you go in with an attitude and just start spraying coinage everywhere, that's a different story and not on. But I can certainly see where the motivation is coming from if someone deems themselves to have been wronged in some manner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN1awl2KetM

And I can't deny that sometimes I've felt like paying my motor tax like this guy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wGD84j0_t8

pudzey101 wrote: »

Girl at the desk said they only accept notes or credit cards ( This was not in writing when he asked for that policy )

Next time you go in (with 50 coins or less) get a record of your attempt to pay so that if it goes to court you can show the judge you tried to pay.

(I know most people would say you're mad to risk court for it, but I know (Edit: of) a lad (Edit: from a story in the local paper) who went all the way to the High Court over a parking fine, and won.)

Samuel T. Cogley

DMcL1971 wrote: »

Why is everyone having a go at the friend. It clearly states in the original post that he wasn't doing this as some form of protest but just getting rid of some spare coins.

Presumably people suspect the OP/OP's friend of telling porkies.

Nonoperational

pudzey101 wrote: »

Asking for a friend foremost ....

Friend of mine got a 40e parking ticket , accepted the fact he let the ticket run out ... Went into pay it the following day with a jar full of 1 cent - 1 euro coins ( counted exactly to 40 euro .

Girl at the desk said they only accept notes or credit cards ( This was not in writing when he asked for that policy )


Whats the law regarding payment in buisness' or shops in Ireland ?


PS : he wasnt being smart/cheeky he counted out the correct amount and brought it in . Just wanted rid of the coins that built up over a period of months ?

Ya right. What an absolute clown.

TheAnalyst_

#madlad

nd

They have the auto counter machines in alot of shops nowdays. Did it recently with 2 bags of coins. It counted in in less than about 2 minutes and got over 100 euro. They take 12% of the amount as a charge. Very handy.

johndaman66

nd wrote: »

They have the auto counter machines in alot of shops nowdays. Did it recently with 2 bags of coins. It counted in in less than about 2 minutes and got over 100 euro. They take 12% of the amount as a charge. Very handy.

Bloody extortion more like if you ask me.


Each to their own and all that but I'd rather just keep my coinage to an absolute minimum, I've never being in a situation where I had to get rid of anything near 40 €1 coins.

OldMrBrennan83

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Timberrrrrrrr

Patww79 wrote: »

30 one euro coins and 20 fifty cent coins

Would take all of 30 seconds for a cashier to count that.

nd

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Same here. I had cups all over the house full of change that was there prob. over 10 years. It'd still be there for years more only I was stuck for money!

Mervyn Skidmore

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The ones in Tesco charge a percentage too. I just use the self checkout and pay with my coins. It takes a few minutes extra but at least I get the full value for them.

Sam Kade

Who the phuck posts this on behalf of a friend? Admit it op it is you, isn't it?

pudzey101

Lol if it was me id pay up in notes it cant be me though as i drive a motorbike so no parking tickets or fines needed

CeilingFly

pudzey101 wrote: »

Whats the law regarding payment in buisness' or shops in Ireland ?

In terms of shops, a shop may refuse any form of payment. Furthermore a shop can legally not give change. (it would close down very quickly if it didn't though)

Legal tender must only be accepted where a debt has occurred. In a retail transaction, no debt has occurred, so a store can refuse €100 notes or a bag of coins. Totally up to them.

Good business dictates reasonable attitude.

In terms of a parking ticket, a debt has occurred, so if payment via 50 coins is not accepted, then I think the debt can be extinguished.

uck51js9zml2yt

had a few idiots paying their motor tax using piles of loose coins.....we made them wait while we counted them very...very slowly

the problem was that as it was a tax it couldnt be refused, a fine may be different!

endacl

pudzey101 wrote: »

sound will pass it on

You might advise his copping on while you're at it?

PM me nudes

Buffman wrote: »

(I know most people would say you're mad to risk court for it, but I know a lad who went all the way to the High Court over a parking fine, and won.)

And what a fcuking waste of tax payers money that was

Buffman

PM me nudes wrote: »

Originally Posted by Buffman
(I know most people would say you're mad to risk court for it, but I know a lad who went all the way to the High Court over a parking fine, and won.)

And what a fcuking waste of tax payers money that was

Yep, he'd paid for his parking and thought he'd parked legally. Council did him for parking in a bus bay. The problem was all the road markings were so worn away that you couldn't tell parking bays from anything else.

Anyway, he took plenty of photos but the council refused his appeal and it eventually went as far as the High Court. IIRC within a week of the council loosing the case, all the road markings were repainted.

coylemj

Buffman wrote: »

Anyway, he took plenty of photos but the council refused his appeal and it eventually went as far as the High Court. IIRC within a week of the council loosing the case, all the road markings were repainted.

Parking cases are heard in the District Court and appeals are heard in the Circuit Court where the decision is final i.e. it's the end of the line.

I would love to hear how your friend managed to drag a parking case as far as the High Court - was there a point of law that had to be trashed out?

Buffman

coylemj wrote: »

I would love to hear how your friend managed to drag a parking case as far as the High Court - was there a point of law that had to be trashed out?

Ye, was in the local paper here ages ago and they're not online, so I can't recall the exact details. Maybe a judicial review?

Here's a recent one in which a Judge refers to the High Court possibly overturning his decision on parking cases.

Judge dismisses parking prosecutions due to glitch in law
................
“They will be struck out today, but if the local authority decides or the High Court decides that I’m wrong, they may be re-issued,” Judge Mitchell said.

CeilingFly

Buffman wrote: »

Ye, was in the local paper here ages ago and they're not online, so I can't recall the exact details. Maybe a judicial review?

Here's a recent one in which a Judge refers to the High Court possibly overturning his decision on parking cases.

That would be the high Court deciding on a point of law, not on a specific motoring offence.

No chance of a parking ticket appeal going to high court - your mate may have said that, but most likely it was appealled to circuit court.

Up to recently the high Court only sat in Dublin and costs of a hearing are a minimum of €10k and go to multiples of that.

No solicitor or barrister would advise such a gamble for a parking ticket as to get to high court level you would be appealing a circuit court appeal and I think that even then you would need to find a legal error on the circuit court decision.


So, I reckon there is a little exaggeration in his story and it was circuit court appeal. - A "higher" court, but not the High Court.

J.pilkington

CeilingFly wrote: »

No chance of a parking ticket appeal going to high court - your mate may have said that, but most likely it was appealled to district court.

So, I reckon there is a little exaggeration in his story and it was district court appeal. - A "higher" court, but not the High Court.

Sure high court sounds better, give it another two weeks and the story will be that it was appealed to the UN court of human rights and he was awarded 400 acres of fine land next to Stephens green park

Bubbaclaus

Clown.

Hope the "friend" feels good about causing an unnecessary inconvenience to a front desk admin worker just trying to earn a living.

pablo128

Makai Immense Taffy wrote: »

had a few idiots paying their motor tax using piles of loose coins.....we made them wait while we counted them very...very slowly

the problem was that as it was a tax it couldnt be refused, a fine may be different!

Great stuff altogether. This is what state employees get up to when dealing with the public. Purposely dragging their arse to annoy people.

Coins are legal tender whether you like it or not. End of story. If there is less than 50 coins tendered, nothing you can do about it. And I don't care if you imagine the guy/girl was trying to piss you off. You shouldn't have applied for a job dealing with the public so.

Mervyn Skidmore

pablo128 wrote: »

Great stuff altogether. This is what state employees get up to when dealing with the public. Purposely dragging their arse to annoy people.

Coins are legal tender whether you like it or not. End of story. If there is less than 50 coins tendered, nothing you can do about it. And I don't care if you imagine the guy/girl was trying to piss you off. You shouldn't have applied for a job dealing with the public so.

The guy said "piles", that means more than 50 coins.

pablo128

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

The guy said "piles", that means more than 50 coins.

Well we know that more than 50 coins can legally be refused so I'd like clarification on these 'piles'. Regardless, its money whether you like it or not.

Going back to the OP, I don't think many posters on here realise that 40 euro in 1 euro coins would fit in one hand. So the fines office refused a handful of money, and the person who tried to legally pay his fine is getting lashed out of it on here.

nd

nd wrote: »

They have the auto counter machines in alot of shops nowdays. Did it recently with 2 bags of coins. It counted in in less than about 2 minutes and got over 100 euro. They take 12% of the amount as a charge. Very handy.

It's only 5% in SuperValu.

I always throw anything 50 cent or lower in a jar and something I dump all my change even 2 euros etc if I've a load or porter change. Ive come over with over 50 euro on a few occasions from jars.

Mervyn Skidmore

pablo128 wrote: »

Well we know that more than 50 coins can legally be refused so I'd like clarification on these 'piles'. Regardless, its money whether you like it or not.

Going back to the OP, I don't think many posters on here realise that 40 euro in 1 euro coins would fit in one hand. So the fines office refused a handful of money, and the person who tried to legally pay his fine is getting lashed out of it on here.

I think you need to re-read the OPs post, you're confused. He said a jar of coins ranging from 1 cent to 1 euro coins. Nobody would refuse 40 €1 coins, that would only take seconds to count.

Big Bag of Chips

pudzey101 wrote: »

Went into pay it the following day with a jar full of 1 cent - 1 euro coins ( counted exactly to 40 euro......

PS : he wasnt being smart/cheeky he counted out the correct amount and brought it in . Just wanted rid of the coins that built up over a period of months ?

pudzey101 wrote: »

cheers , so paying 40 1euro coins cant be refused legally right

If he's not doing it to be smart/cheeky and genuinely just wants rid of the accumulation of all those coins, and now has to go to a bank to change the smaller denominations into €1 coins, to pay 40 x €1 why not just change it all into 2 x €20 and be done with it?

Timberrrrrrrr

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

If he's not doing it to be smart/cheeky and genuinely just wants rid of the accumulation of all those coins, and now has to go to a bank to change the smaller denominations into €1 coins, to pay 40 x €1 why not just change it all into 2 x €20 and be done with it?

Because his "friend" is a bell end of the lowest order and thinks that taking €40 in a €1 and 50c coins is going to cause some sort of massive backlog and bring the fines office to a standstill as they furiously have to count these multiple denominations causing the queue to circle the building thrice.

What really happens is the cashier looks at his "friends" pathetic attempt at protest, spends 30 seconds of his/her working day counting the said €40 and hands the "friend" a reciept. I doubt the cashier will even register the small pile of coins in front of them as a protest/nuisance.

Buffman

I don't want to drag the thread completely off topic so I've edited my first post to keep the pedantic Pats happy.

coylemj wrote: »

Parking cases are heard in the District Court and appeals are heard in the Circuit Court where the decision is final i.e. it's the end of the line.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/council-appeals-decision-on-fines-1.1317328

CeilingFly wrote: »

That would be the high Court deciding on a point of law, not on a specific motoring offence.

No chance of a parking ticket appeal going to high court - your mate may have said that, but most likely it was appealled to circuit court.

Up to recently the high Court only sat in Dublin and costs of a hearing are a minimum of €10k and go to multiples of that.

So, I reckon there is a little exaggeration in his story and it was circuit court appeal. - A "higher" court, but not the High Court.

Ye, IIRC it was regarding the exact legal definition and requirements of the road markings to meet the parking bye-laws, which sounds like the point of law side of things alright. It was the High Court because I remember thinking at the time he must be either very rich or very poor to chance it financially.

J.pilkington wrote: »

Sure high court sounds better, give it another two weeks and the story will be that it was appealed to the UN court of human rights and he was awarded 400 acres of fine land next to Stephens green park

Ye, because it's not like road traffic matters ever end up in the High Court! Oh, wait:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/poor-box-cannot-be-used-to-avoid-penalty-points-court-hears-30027926.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/three-drivers-lose-challenges-to-speeding-convictions-1.2410635

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/high-court-rules-for-man-who-had-drink-driving-charge-dismissed-1.2088587?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fhigh-court%2Fhigh-court-rules-for-man-who-had-drink-driving-charge-dismissed-1.2088587

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/speeding-fine-overturned-as-notice-not-in-irish-1.777792

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/high-court-ruling-puts-hundreds-of-drinkdriving-cases-under-threat-31547441.html

Any links to back up your assertion that it can't happen?

Capt'n Midnight

Kate Prehistoric Self-help wrote: »

It's only 5% in SuperValu.

I always throw anything 50 cent or lower in a jar and something I dump all my change even 2 euros etc if I've a load or porter change. Ive come over with over 50 euro on a few occasions from jars.

go to any supermarket with the automated teller machines and get the full 100%

pablo128

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

I think you need to re-read the OPs post, you're confused. He said a jar of coins ranging from 1 cent to 1 euro coins. Nobody would refuse 40 €1 coins, that would only take seconds to count.

Whoops. It appears you're right.:o

CeilingFly

Buffman wrote: »

I don't want to drag the thread completely off topic so I've edited my first post to keep the pedantic Pats happy.



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/council-appeals-decision-on-fines-1.1317328



Ye, IIRC it was regarding the exact legal definition and requirements of the road markings to meet the parking bye-laws, which sounds like the point of law side of things alright. It was the High Court because I remember thinking at the time he must be either very rich or very poor to chance it financially.



Ye, because it's not like road traffic matters ever end up in the High Court! Oh, wait:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/poor-box-cannot-be-used-to-avoid-penalty-points-court-hears-30027926.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/three-drivers-lose-challenges-to-speeding-convictions-1.2410635

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/high-court-rules-for-man-who-had-drink-driving-charge-dismissed-1.2088587?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fhigh-court%2Fhigh-court-rules-for-man-who-had-drink-driving-charge-dismissed-1.2088587

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/speeding-fine-overturned-as-notice-not-in-irish-1.777792

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/high-court-ruling-puts-hundreds-of-drinkdriving-cases-under-threat-31547441.html

Any links to back up your assertion that it can't happen?

None of those examples are road traffic issues themselves. They are mostly arguments about the interpretation of the law or similar.

In fact one of your links specifically states that the high court cannot hear an appeal or reverse a lower court decision where the correct facts were presented.

Possibly there was a separate case to argue about validity of line painting which went to high court, but once that was decided, then the original ticket issue would return to the circuit court for appeal.

Buffman

CeilingFly wrote: »

Possibly there was a separate case to argue about validity of line painting which went to high court, but once that was decided, then the original ticket issue would return to the circuit court for appeal.

Yes, we seem to be in agreement that it is possible to appeal the issuing of a potentially illegal parking ticket to the High Court.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

go to any supermarket with the automated teller machines and get the full 100%

I prefer to get the cash.