Investing in dairy farm milking infrastructure

Dairyman11

Hi, I'm currently looking into improving the setup on the dairy farm at home. We're milking fifty cows on a grass based system.milking parlour is a five unit very basic parlour with a good collecting yard. Now my trouble is I also have a full time job Monday to Friday and am looking to make life easier for myself without getting in milkers during the week. I was thinking at trying to expand the parlour into a eight or nine unit double up as I seen second hands one for good value on donedeal etc. Now there really isn't much room for this so a few walls would have to be knocked/moved out and maybe widen the pit slightly. greenfield option I feel is not viable in my situation. Another mad notion i had was looking at a robotic milking machine I know the cost for one machine is around 120k but my paddock system and farm yard layout is pretty good would this be another option. The full time job I have is good and a robot or efficient parlour would mean I could do both. Any body have any ideas or suggestions?? Thanks

Mooooo

Any reason a greenfield site isn't an option? If you will have to knock walls anyway would it be possible to make it big enough for a 14 or 20 unit? Would really streamline it. Double ups can be an option but your spending time turning cows in and out and clusters hanging up. For the price of a robot you would have a very good new 16 unit in, with more options. I know you said no milkers but I would prefer to have cows in and out and done than being at work and an alarm going off cos a sensor is dirty. If you have a decent set up and parlour where you can be in and out fast it would be easy and rel cheap to get a lad in for an evening to milk. Another option would be once a day milking

Dairyman11

Mooooo wrote: »

Any reason a greenfield site isn't an option? If you will have to knock walls anyway would it be possible to make it big enough for a 14 or 20 unit? Would really streamline it. Double ups can be an option but your spending time turning cows in and out and clusters hanging up. For the price of a robot you would have a very good new 16 unit in, with more options. I know you said no milkers but I would prefer to have cows in and out and done than being at work and an alarm going off cos a sensor is dirty. If you have a decent set up and parlour where you can be in and out fast it would be easy and rel cheap to get a lad in for an evening to milk. Another option would be once a day milking

Can't see the herd expanding beyond 50-55 cows therefore putting in a new parlour not really feasible really when the five unit parlour can get through them in about 1hr and half. Where as converting the old parlour might take a little bit if reconstruction but as I said it could be minimal. you would probably fit another three units so eight aside handy enough with maybe just knocking a corner off a wall to allow easier exit. The only thing I feel with the robot is if you were to pay someone to milk evenings five days a week that's 150 a week and robot I think could be wrong now is about 280 a week but your getting cows milked three times a day meaning more revenue from milk which may justify the high cost. Another thing with the robot is that it could fit right into the yard and there would be little other costs than getting the robot installing it and maintenance

The part time boy

In my limited research on robots I found that keeping them serviced can be quite costly . Also some people think they can get a robot and spend loads of time of the farm . One fella said to me I still have to be around all the time but the difference Is if the young fella has a match at 4 I can go to it.

I seen a few lads with doubled up paluours and they seem to work well. The UK seem to have mostly doubled up yet here it's rare . Could never understand that .

Because your working fill time you need to spend as little time in the parlour as possible . You need to ask how many cows you want to milk in 5 years and aim to have no more than 6 rounds . You also need very good cow flow. Without seeing your yard that's where a greenfield site might make more sense .

Finally just to play devil advocate . I was thinking of getting back into cows as I have a job as well. Having done research any people I found that were milking and had fill time jobs also had there dad's at home as well. Does your father still help out . If he was not able how would you manage ?

Need to ask your self can you keep going on your own after investing money in new parlour.

On the other hand I know too well what it like milking in parlour too small so best of luck in the upgrade

Mooooo

Dairyman11 wrote: »

Can't see the herd expanding beyond 50-55 cows therefore putting in a new parlour not really feasible really when the five unit parlour can get through them in about 1hr and half. Where as converting the old parlour might take a little bit if reconstruction but as I said it could be minimal. you would probably fit another three units so eight aside handy enough with maybe just knocking a corner off a wall to allow easier exit. The only thing I feel with the robot is if you were to pay someone to milk evenings five days a week that's 150 a week and robot I think could be wrong now is about 280 a week but your getting cows milked three times a day meaning more revenue from milk which may justify the high cost. Another thing with the robot is that it could fit right into the yard and there would be little other costs than getting the robot installing it and maintenance

I guess go see robot owners ideally outside of ope days as you may get more honest answers without the reps there. On the new parlour not being feasible due to number of cows, compare the cost of putting it in with the robot and you may be surprised . I squeezed a 14 unit in to our old building, 14 unit parlour + feeders + 14.5k bulk tank was 40k after grant, not including wiring or building adjustments etc. 14 unit would be 4 runs in and out for 56 cows

Dairyman11

Mooooo wrote: »

I guess go see robot owners ideally outside of ope days as you may get more honest answers without the reps there. On the new parlour not being feasible due to number of cows, compare the cost of putting it in with the robot and you may be surprised . I squeezed a 14 unit in to our old building, 14 unit parlour + feeders + 14.5k bulk tank was 40k after grant, not including wiring or building adjustments etc. 14 unit would be 4 runs in and out for 56 cows

Is there grants for putting in robots?40k is not bad but I'd have to put up new shed and yard move the milk tank alot of work which would add up quite fast

mahoney_j

100% def keep
Your job and go with a robot

Dairyman11

mahoney_j wrote: »

100% def keep
Your job and go with a robot

Have you a robot installed.? If so what's the financials of getting setup and will they payback apart from a little less time required to be on the farm

pms7

Away from the parlour issue, I presume you are running a beef bull and buying replacements, very simple system.

I've had 50 cows last few years, full time farming. Milking is only small part of daily routine. I dont know how people go out to work as well.

Dairyman11

pms7 wrote: »

Away from the parlour issue, I presume you are running a beef bull and buying replacements, very simple system.

I've had 50 cows last few years, full time farming. Milking is only small part of daily routine. I dont know how people go out to work as well.

Ya your spot on there, Blue bull running with the cows. calves sold ASAP and buy in few incalf heifers each year

Mooooo

Dairyman11 wrote: »

Is there grants for putting in robots?40k is not bad but I'd have to put up new shed and yard move the milk tank alot of work which would add up quite fast

There is I think, check the department website or with an advisor. Best of luck whatever you decide and all I can say is see as many as you can both conventional and robotic and price it all out. Are you in a discussion group? If not join one if you can at all.,

Mooooo

Also if you do go with a robot keep us posted on how it goes would be good to have a robotic contributer for a warts and all viewpoint

Timmaay

Robotic grazing requires top notch grassland management, every day of the grazing season you will need to be allocate the cows 3 8hr blocks of grass, so to take full days away from the farm yourself you will need to be able to train someone else up to be able to estimate the cover and measure out the area needed for the cows, its certainly not as simple as telling your milker to just lob the cows into whatever paddock for the week while your gone on holidays. Your best bet with the above would be to team up with another local farmer who has a robot, and is use of allocating grass etc, and try do the likes of you do his while he is away and he does yours when you are away.

Do loads and loads of homework on them anyways, and visit farmers with both lely and delaval robots, and ideally not just open days where the salesmen are just in your face annoying you with bias figures etc.

Dairyman11

Timmaay wrote: »

Robotic grazing requires top notch grassland management, every day of the grazing season you will need to be allocate the cows 3 8hr blocks of grass, so to take full days away from the farm yourself you will need to be able to train someone else up to be able to estimate the cover and measure out the area needed for the cows, its certainly not as simple as telling your milker to just lob the cows into whatever paddock for the week while your gone on holidays. Your best bet with the above would be to team up with another local farmer who has a robot, and is use of allocating grass etc, and try do the likes of you do his while he is away and he does yours when you are away.

Do loads and loads of homework on them anyways, and visit farmers with both lely and delaval robots, and ideally not just open days where the salesmen are just in your face annoying you with bias figures etc.

If I was to go into robotic I would use a AB system 12 hour shifts. From what I've heard most lads have paddocks stripped for 7-8 days in advance and it wouldn't take much work in the morning or evening to split a paddock and other daily tasks I'd imagine.

freedominacup

Dairyman11 wrote: »

If I was to go into robotic I would use a AB system 12 hour shifts. From what I've heard most lads have paddocks stripped for 7-8 days in advance and it wouldn't take much work in the morning or evening to split a paddock and other daily tasks I'd imagine.

I must go and meet these geniuses because the man who can tell me today what covers I'll have next Saturday and what area I should be allocating my cows on that day is a man it'd be well worth talking to.

yewtree

Dairyman11 wrote: »

If I was to go into robotic I would use a AB system 12 hour shifts. From what I've heard most lads have paddocks stripped for 7-8 days in advance and it wouldn't take much work in the morning or evening to split a paddock and other daily tasks I'd imagine.

In fairness I think there is a lot more to it than that, a friend of mine has a robot and doing a good job with grass. He allocates the grass everyday if he gets allocation wrong cows won't move. No way you could have strops set up for a week in advance

Dairyman11

freedominacup wrote: »

I must go and meet these geniuses because the man who can tell me today what covers I'll have next Saturday and what area I should be allocating my cows on that day is a man it'd be well worth talking to.

Cant you estimate what covers you'll have not to hard to bring a fence back a little if you've too much cover. If ya can't have paddocks ready a few days in advance there's something wrong. If you feel the cows havnt grazed it out I'm sure you can allow them to graze on a little. Isn't that what robotic milking is all about allowing you more time to correctly measure grass and forecast grass covers and been flexible with your management

mahoney_j

Dairyman11 wrote: »

Have you a robot installed.? If so what's the financials of getting setup and will they payback apart from a little less time required to be on the farm

I don't but had a good look at them a few years when I built my parlour ,my post was just based on info u provided ,imo it would be a perfect fit for u and allow y to keep your job

farisfat

the one problem i see with robots is grazing at the wings of the year and in bad weather.

kowtow

freedominacup wrote:

I must go and meet these geniuses because the man who can tell me today what covers I'll have next Saturday and what area I should be allocating my cows on that day is a man it'd be well worth talking to.

T'would feck me up completely.

I'd have 7 paddocks all stripped up before I remembered the cows were in the 8th.

And if I did get them back I'd change my mind and decide to go reseeding on day 3.

Robots sound like hard work.

Timmaay

kowtow wrote: »

T'would feck me up completely.

I'd have 7 paddocks all stripped up before I remembered the cows were in the 8th.

And if I did get them back I'd change my mind and decide to go reseeding on day 3.

Robots sound like hard work.

What lely or delaval need is a 2nd paddock robot, which is a larger version of the likes of the Robotic vacuum cleaners, it would drive around and do a grass cover on the area you want to graze, then calculate the required area for the cows for the next 8hrs, and it would put down the polywire and pigtails itself. It can also drive back across the stuff that was just grazed, and ensure the cows did a good enough job cleaning it out. As a bonus feature it would have a spot sprayer build in and it would spray weeds in the paddock. As an even extra bonus feature it would poke lazy cows who don't show up to the robot often enough and drive them up to be milked!

Sam Kade

Feck robots just put in an 18 unit parlour and milk the 50 cows in less than 3 rows and have an automatic washer. You'd spend as much time checking out the robot in the morning for cows that weren't milked and if there is one not milked you'll have to bring her in, that's why they call them chaser cows.

kowtow

Timmaay wrote: »

What lely or delaval need is a 2nd paddock robot, which is a larger version of the likes of the Robotic vacuum cleaners, it would drive around and do a grass cover on the area you want to graze, then calculate the required area for the cows for the next 8hrs, and it would put down the polywire and pigtails itself. It can also drive back across the stuff that was just grazed, and ensure the cows did a good enough job cleaning it out. As a bonus feature it would have a spot sprayer build in and it would spray weeds in the paddock. As an even extra bonus feature it would poke lazy cows who don't show up to the robot often enough and drive them up to be milked!

They could call it the "Lely Student"

It would have a small hatch on the bag to put a feed of pints in every so often, and a built in megaphone pointing at itself to allow you to phone it up and shout at it at regular intervals.

K.G.

Sam Kade wrote: »

Feck robots just put in an 18 unit parlour and milk the 50 cows in less than 3 rows and have an automatic washer. You'd spend as much time checking out the robot in the morning for cows that weren't milked and if there is one not milked you'll have to bring her in, that's why they call them chaser cows.

Extend the parlour to 12 and forget about robots.if you are off farm during the milking gives you a chance to inspect your cows twice a day and fellas will milk for you if they can get in out quickly with no hassle.spend a bit of money having a few extra gates in the right places will help big time.robots are just complicating a very simple job

visatorro

Sam Kade wrote: »

Feck robots just put in an 18 unit parlour and milk the 50 cows in less than 3 rows and have an automatic washer. You'd spend as much time checking out the robot in the morning for cows that weren't milked and if there is one not milked you'll have to bring her in, that's why they call them chaser cows.

Am working full-time and I'm thinking the same way. I got talking to a teagasc fella who told me to milk OAD to try it out. Costs nothing. If you spend money on a robot your stuck with it. You have the facilities there already.

Saying that there's a new entrant near me with three robots and yet leave his place and just order robots, super set up. That's ran like clockwork.

Sillycave

visatorro wrote: »

Am working full-time and I'm thinking the same way. I got talking to a teagasc fella who told me to milk OAD to try it out. Costs nothing. If you spend money on a robot your stuck with it. You have the facilities there already.

Saying that there's a new entrant near me with three robots and yet leave his place and just order robots, super set up. That's ran like clockwork.

What would an 18 unit parlour cost?
Basic run of the mill parlour around 60ish and high spec around 90-100k?? Would these figures be bal park in the region?

visatorro

Sillycave wrote: »

What would an 18 unit parlour cost?
Basic run of the mill parlour around 60ish and high spec around 90-100k?? Would these figures be bal park in the region?

Not sure, anything from 4-8k per unit I guess. And a shed around it then. Then auto wash and drafting if needed.

Timmaay

Sillycave wrote: »

What would an 18 unit parlour cost?
Basic run of the mill parlour around 60ish and high spec around 90-100k?? Would these figures be bal park in the region?

For just the parlour or the whole building? For just the parlour installed (say milking machine and all stallwork), prices start at about 1800/unit for barebones, 3500/unit with likes of acrs, dumpline etc, and if you wanna go high spec you can spend up to 10/12k/unit ha. Call it 32k for the basic 18unit, 63k for the medium spec. If you need pig feeders put a ballpark figure of 6500 on it, meal bin 3k. If you need a shed, a 5bay 16ft wide shed would be about 7k installed. The concrete work and pit etc really depends on what you have already, I was lucky with my 14unit and I only needed a pit, one side wall and the front, did all this in 4inch solid block, was about 6k in total, 10k probably more realistic. Only thing I forgot about in the above is electrical and plumbing work, you'll easily sink another 5k onto all that, throw on another 5k if you need a wash down system, 300l hot water tank, plate cooler etc etc!

OK anyways to come full circle, after grants and all that your prob right with your 60k and 100k ballpark figures ha! I managed about 50k for an average spec 14unit here after the grand, but that was doing afew bits myself.

Sillycave

Timmaay wrote: »

OK anyways to come full circle, after grants and all that your prob right with your 60k and 100k ballpark figures ha! I managed about 50k for an average spec 14unit here after the grand, but that was doing afew bits myself.

You would probably have one robot in for that and two if in a partnership!
I'll just get my coat now and leave....

Mf310

Like what was said previous an 18 unit with acrs and auto washer with good cow flow straight in straight out would be better than any robot . You get to see cows twice a day so can see any problems and it'd be a simple parlour that there'd be no bother getting anyone to milk in it if needs be whereas lads would have to be trained to the robot I would think? If you had the place set up right with good roadways and paddocks you would be in and out within less than an hour

jaymla627

Sillycave wrote: »

You would probably have one robot in for that and two if in a partnership!
I'll just get my coat now and leave....

Robots are dairyings pcp finance of the car world, lely will literally give finance to almost anyone they'll woo you with all their sales talk and open-days but 5-10 years down the line when all these robots start needing alot of maintance/replacing of parts they will make a fortune of you.....
Like anything the cost of a machine the first day only represents a % of lifetime running costs

Keepgrowing

18 unit no frills parlour, 3 rows, minimum yard washing, job done 30-40 minutes per day

70k for parlour, building and drafting. Grant would reduce your outlay

Keepgrowing

jaymla627 wrote: »

Robots are dairyings pcp finance of the car world, lely will literally give finance to almost anyone they'll woo you with all their sales talk and open-days but 5-10 years down the line when all these robots start needing alot of maintance/replacing of parts they will make a fortune of you.....
Like anything the cost of a machine the first day only represents a % of lifetime running costs

Claas tractors are up there aswell

visatorro

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Claas tractors are up there aswell

You'd wonder about the claas alright, they certainly pushed finance very hard in this country.

visatorro

jaymla627 wrote: »

Robots are dairyings pcp finance of the car world, lely will literally give finance to almost anyone they'll woo you with all their sales talk and open-days but 5-10 years down the line when all these robots start needing alot of maintance/replacing of parts they will make a fortune of you.....
Like anything the cost of a machine the first day only represents a % of lifetime running costs

Will you get grant for robot if you don't own it? IE high purchase?

Waffletraktor

visatorro wrote: »

You'd wonder about the claas alright, they certainly pushed finance very hard in this country.

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Claas tractors are up there aswell

What sort of prices would hire/finance packages be over there.
Should get a 150hp tractor fully loaded, with auto-steer/service package/ fancy michelin tyres for about 21/22.50euro/hr at 1,000 hours year easy enough...

pms7

visatorro wrote: »

You'd wonder about the claas alright, they certainly pushed finance very hard in this country.

Local contractor got one to replace TM155, says fuel savings nearly pay for repayments

Panch18

Dairyman11 wrote: »

Hi, I'm currently looking into improving the setup on the dairy farm at home. We're milking fifty cows on a grass based system.milking parlour is a five unit very basic parlour with a good collecting yard. Now my trouble is I also have a full time job Monday to Friday and am looking to make life easier for myself without getting in milkers during the week. I was thinking at trying to expand the parlour into a eight or nine unit double up as I seen second hands one for good value on donedeal etc. Now there really isn't much room for this so a few walls would have to be knocked/moved out and maybe widen the pit slightly. greenfield option I feel is not viable in my situation. Another mad notion i had was looking at a robotic milking machine I know the cost for one machine is around 120k but my paddock system and farm yard layout is pretty good would this be another option. The full time job I have is good and a robot or efficient parlour would mean I could do both. Any body have any ideas or suggestions?? Thanks

Ditch the cows and rear 70 calves to year and a halves. or better still - put your 50 cows to an angus bull, keep all the calves and buy a few more, sell the cows at the start of 2019 (after calving a second batch of angus) and you have you all your stock for your beef enterprise

You'll have a lot more time on your hands and be a lot easier

And financially just as well off

Water John

Panch, that is an option for the OP.
OP needs to consider his life and time working. If you work the job until 6. Then you won't start milking until 7 at the earliest. Long day.
All other jobs, spreading fert etc, Sat and Sun.

Checking the cows twice a day applies whether one use a parlour or robot. It's not a reason to opt for a parlour.

yewtree

Panch18 wrote: »

Ditch the cows and rear 70 calves to year and a halves. or better still - put your 50 cows to an angus bull, keep all the calves and buy a few more, sell the cows at the start of 2019 (after calving a second batch of angus) and you have you all your stock for your beef enterprise

You'll have a lot more time on your hands and be a lot easier

And financially just as well off

What are the rest of us at, if you can make as much from rearing calves as milking.
There are lots of good reasons why someone might want to exit milk production. I cant see any financial benefit. It's bit far fetched to suggest rearing 70 calves will replace the income of milking 50 cows.

Icelandicseige

yewtree wrote: »

What are the rest of us at, if you can make as much from rearing calves as milking.
There are lots of good reasons why someone might want to exit milk production. I cant see any financial benefit. It's bit far fetched to suggest rearing 70 calves will replace the income of milking 50 cows.

That's like I remember one guy saying he was getting out of milk because he couldn't get enough milk from his montbeliarde cows...
It's just an excuse that made him justify his decision.

If really wanted to milk cows all he had to do was change his breeding..

Panch18

yewtree wrote: »

What are the rest of us at, if you can make as much from rearing calves as milking.
There are lots of good reasons why someone might want to exit milk production. I cant see any financial benefit. It's bit far fetched to suggest rearing 70 calves will replace the income of milking 50 cows.

You'd expect to make 400 per animal having them for a year and a half, and that's a minimum

Stocking rate of 1.4 to the acre

50 acres means 70 bullocks (of each age group) @ 400 each is 28,000

Now considering money needs to be spent on a parlour and the cows are only part time I bet you the 50 cows would be hard pressed to have 28k left over after paying the milking parlour loan.

And the much easier lifestyle is surely worth a few k per year

the_blue_oval

Panch18 wrote: »

You'd expect to make 400 per animal having them for a year and a half, and that's a minimum

Stocking rate of 1.4 to the acre

50 acres means 70 bullocks (of each age group) @ 400 each is 28,000

Now considering money needs to be spent on a parlour and the cows are only part time I bet you the 50 cows would be hard pressed to have 28k left over after paying the milking parlour loan.

And the much easier lifestyle is surely worth a few k per year

If you could clear €400 net profit selling angus bullocks we'd all be at it...

Maybe 400 of a gross margin, but there's still a lot of costs to come off of that..

yewtree

Panch18 wrote: »

You'd expect to make 400 per animal having them for a year and a half, and that's a minimum

Stocking rate of 1.4 to the acre

50 acres means 70 bullocks (of each age group) @ 400 each is 28,000

Now considering money needs to be spent on a parlour and the cows are only part time I bet you the 50 cows would be hard pressed to have 28k left over after paying the milking parlour loan.

And the much easier lifestyle is surely worth a few k per year

That's a net margin of 1380/ha I never heard anyone suggest that's possible in any kind of beef system. There are lots of lads that would have €28000 left after payment of loans milking 50 cows. I would suggest it's much more likely than making 400/head selling 1.5 bullocks.

I wouldn't discount the lifestyle in fairness and maybe for some lads the right option is to exit milking but it's the only game in town if you want to generate any kind of income on a small land based

Panch18

yewtree wrote: »

That's a net margin of 1380/ha I never heard anyone suggest that's possible in any kind of beef system. There are lots of lads that would have €28000 left after payment of loans milking 50 cows. I would suggest it's much more likely than making 400/head selling 1.5 bullocks.

I wouldn't discount the lifestyle in fairness and maybe for some lads the right option is to exit milking but it's the only game in town if you want to generate any kind of income on a small land based

The thing about dairy is that long term you can't work and do dairy - so the opportunity cost of dairy is the wage in off farm income that you have foregone.

No small holding should be milking cows - get an off farm job and rear calves. Better lifestyle and more money

And the definition of small holding is getting bigger by the day

Panch18

Just to give you an idea

we bought yearling Angus bullocks last week - 290kg for 850.

these bullocks will be minimum 500kg at the back end, so should be making well in excess of 1,000 euro - probably 1050-1100

20silkcut

Panch18 wrote: »

The thing about dairy is that long term you can't work and do dairy - so the opportunity cost of dairy is the wage in off farm income that you have foregone.

No small holding should be milking cows - get an off farm job and rear calves. Better lifestyle and more money

And the definition of small holding is getting bigger by the day

But being a full time dairy farmer with no off farm job and being able to give all your working time to it is more desirable than working a full time job and running a beef enterprise which in fairness is no joke when you go upwards of 100 animals.
Double jobbing might make good financial sense but the impact on lifestyle and health and time off and downtime is a more important consideration in my opinion . What more do you want than enough to live comfortably and not have to kill yourself to get it.

Water John

Most people double jobbing, in reality, have considerable on farm help. I don't disagree with that, it's needed. But believe very few are managing without it.
I take many claiming it, with a grain of salt.
There is usually a parent, partner around to at least, keep a eye on things.

Panch18

20silkcut wrote: »

Double jobbing might make good financial sense but the impact on lifestyle and health and time off and downtime is a more important consideration in my opinion . What more do you want than enough to live comfortably and not have to kill yourself to get it.

There hasn't been a truer word said in a long time

I just reckon that cows are a no no with regards to double jobbing where as you can do it handy enough with cattle

TheClubMan

Panch18 wrote: »

Ditch the cows and rear 70 calves to year and a halves. or better still - put your 50 cows to an angus bull, keep all the calves and buy a few more, sell the cows at the start of 2019 (after calving a second batch of angus) and you have you all your stock for your beef enterprise

You'll have a lot more time on your hands and be a lot easier

And financially just as well off

There's still a bit of work in that system as well though but you won't be getting the same kind of profit as you would with the cows. It's a lifestyle choice I suppose.

GrasstoMilk

Panch18 wrote: »

Just to give you an idea

we bought yearling Angus bullocks last week - 290kg for 850.

these bullocks will be minimum 500kg at the back end, so should be making well in excess of 1,000 euro - probably 1050-1100

Ye paid 200€ too dear for them I reckon. You'll not have much left out of your 1050 when you add up what they cost you for the year