Court summons.

allan96

7 months ago I took my dads car because mine was with the mechanic and I had to get to college somehow. Obviously I've hit the checkpoint. I wasn't insured and the NCT was out. Only thing it had was tax. The test was booked in 2 weeks so I couldn't provide it in 10 days as the gardai asked. Im being accused for driving with no insurance and NCT. Never been in court. How much do you think the judge will say ?

Kimbot

allan96 wrote: »

7 months ago I took my dads car because mine was with the mechanic and I had to get to college somehow. Obviously I've hit the checkpoint. I wasn't insured and the NCT was out. Only thing it had was tax. The test was booked in 2 weeks so I couldn't provide it in 10 days as the gardai asked. Im being accused for driving with no insurance and NCT. Never been in court. How much do you think the judge will say ?

Im pretty sure the judge will have plenty to say to you on the day

Armchair Andy

Plenty. Have you a good solicitor?

punisher5112

allan96 wrote: »

7 months ago I took my dads car because mine was with the mechanic and I had to get to college somehow. Obviously I've hit the checkpoint. I wasn't insured and the NCT was out. Only thing it had was tax. The test was booked in 2 weeks so I couldn't provide it in 10 days as the gardai asked. Im being accused for driving with no insurance and NCT. Never been in court. How much do you think the judge will say ?

All depends on the judge and circumstances.

I have seen cases of as little as €100 paid back over 6 months or €500 for some.

Also you are looking at a ban.

Your insurance if you ever try to get any will be crazy and you must disclose to any potential insurer.

I would recommend getting a solicitor.

allan96

Can't afford solicitor I'm living of susi maintenance grant :P

punisher5112

allan96 wrote: »

Can't afford solicitor I'm living of susi maintenance grant :P

Good luck so.

Stheno

allan96 wrote: »

Can't afford solicitor I'm living off susi maintenance grant :P

Penalties include a fine of up to 5000, five penalty points, a ban of two years or up to six months in prison.

A good solicitor might be worth it

Uriel.

allan96 wrote: »

Can't afford solicitor I'm living of susi maintenance grant :P

You do realise that it is a pretty serious charge right? At best you'll have a driving conviction and serious headache (and cost) for future insurance

EagererBeaver

allan96 wrote: »

Can't afford solicitor I'm living of susi maintenance grant :P

Figure out how to get one. Fast.

Kimbot

allan96 wrote: »

Can't afford solicitor I'm living of susi maintenance grant :P

Apply for legal aid so.

allan96

I've heard they give you one in the court. Is that true ?

Stheno

allan96 wrote: »

I've heard they give you one in the court. Is that true ?

No

punisher5112

allan96 wrote: »

I've heard they give you one in the court. Is that true ?

You could chance picking one of a few that would be there.

Good luck with the sticking the tongue out emoji.

Hopefully they keep catching more and get people like yourself off the road.

If you can't afford it do without like everyone else.

Jack the Stripper

Stheno wrote: »

Penalties include a fine of up to 5000, five penalty points, a ban of two years or up to six months in prison.

A good solicitor might be worth it

Leave out the scaremongering or attempt at being a comedian. The above is way exaggerated.

Uriel.

allan96 wrote: »

I've heard they give you one in the court. Is that true ?

Yep, you'll be grand. Just go straight to the defendants waiting room in the court building as early as possible. Once you've had the free breakfast and medical exam they'll start calling out names for the free solicitor and barristers.

Make sure to pick up your free court pack when leaving also. Some really nice stuff like cups and caps included in those.

punisher5112

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

Leave out the scaremongering or attempt at being a comedian. The above is way exaggerated.

How is it.

Its all there in the law

The op may well get lesser but with the attitude shown on here maybe not.

The ban needs to be longer and licence when given back restricted.

Stheno

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

Leave out the scaremongering or attempt at being a comedian. The above is way exaggerated.

Nope it's the max penalties for first offence of driving without insurance

allan96

punisher5112, don't worry about my attitude, leave it to me. You're not the judge so I can talk to you the way I want.

punisher5112

allan96 wrote: »

punisher5112, don't worry about my attitude, leave it to me. You're not the judge so I can talk to you the way I want.

How do you know I am or not....

You asked for advice you have been given it.

As I said before best of luck not!

bear1

You've done something very foolish here.
Now you will more than likely get a pretty hefty punishment and tbh rightly so.
What has your dad done in this situation? What advice has he given you? Can they afford the solicitor?
You could try and plead with the judge and use your student case as a way of showing that you had no choice (you did) as you needed to get to class etc and just pray he let's you off with a fine.
But looking at the garda thread I think you're looking at an auto ban and seriously inflated insurance quotes. Up **** Creek essentially

martyoo

You're not the judge so I can talk to you the way I want.

Nice!

bear1

martyoo wrote: »

Nice!

Yeah just super.

Luap

I'm not sure if it would apply for you.

But you could have legal cover on your own insurance policy?

bear1

Luap wrote: »

I'm not sure if it would apply for you.

But you could have legal cover on your own insurance policy?

But sure that wouldn't apply to a car which isn't his.

Jack the Stripper

Stheno wrote: »

Nope it's the max penalties for first offence of driving without insurance

The last couple of cases I heard of were a couple of hundred to poor box.

Uriel.

bear1 wrote: »

But sure that wouldn't apply to a car which isn't his.

It could do.
I can drive other cars and my insurance covers me for third party

Uriel.

bear1 wrote: »

But sure that wouldn't apply to a car which isn't his.

It could do. My insurance covers me on other cars for third party

Beta Ray Bill

allan96 wrote: »

Can't afford solicitor I'm living of susi maintenance grant :P

Hmmm :P emoji suggests you aren't aware of the gravity of the situation.

Being caught without insurance is a serious issue.

You'll probably get a Ban and around a €400 fine without a Brief.



Isn't it funny though how this raises an even more interesting question?

You'd probably get stopped at a check point maybe once a year.

Aside from the Ban, (If you choose to obey it) it would actually make more financial sense to drive without insurance. (I am in no way saying that, that is right OR instructing people to drive without insurance)

And even if you were caught, there is literally no way they can enforce the Ban.
Ireland puts people in Prison for unpaid fines, not for breaching driving Bans.

That's why so often in the news you hear of people with 100's of convictions "For mainly motoring offences" but have spent little or no time in prison for those offences. Prisons are full.


OP you've got a choice to make.

You can go down the road of the uninsured/uninsurable for the rest of your life OR you can get a decent Brief organised to avoid the Ban/Conviction, and get on normally with your life, and don't be so stupid as to drive without insurance ever again.

I know what I'd be doing.

GrumpyMe

There is also the question of did your father gave you, an uninsured driver, permission to drive his vehicle, a vehicle that had no right to be on the road?
If he did he could be in trouble.
If he didn't you could be deeper in the sh1t than stated above...

boardsuser1

From experience in court even if you are working you can get legal aid.

A judge here in Cork only ever asks one question when a legal aid application is made,

Judge: Are they earning over €400 a week?

Solicitor: No judge.

Judge: I grant legal aid.

I myself was working in Dunnes Stores and up on a few offences and was never refused.

I'm not the "entitled" type but the court deemed it best in the interests of justice.

bladespin

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

The last couple of cases I heard of were a couple of hundred to poor box.

Sounds pretty soft for no insurance, licence or tax maybe? Round my neck of the woods you's definitely be looking at a ban at the least.

TBH, there's plenty of hearsay but facts are different, those are the max penalties.
That said, if it's a first offence it's unlikely the maximum penalty would be handed out but not necessarily impossible; particular if the judge has had a bunch of jokers already.

xabi

bear1 wrote: »

But sure that wouldn't apply to a car which isn't his.

It might, my policy allows me to drive any car, but I think the other car needs to be insured by the owner.

MarkR

This might make you want to rethink the seriousness.

For the first offences, committed on April 23, Judge Haughton handed down fines of €300 for drink driving and €200 for no insurance, along with bans of three years and two years, respectively.

From http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/courts/district-court-roundup-30999697.html

And not just there.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/news/learner-driver-fined-3800-30733970.html

bear1

Uriel. wrote: »

It could do. My insurance covers me on other cars for third party

But I thought the other car needs to have insurance as well?
The op being a student I'm going to guess that he/she has a provincial or the most basic insurance possible.

Blazedup

Iv seen in Galway district court judges giving defendants an opportunity to get insurance, if they oblige they get to keep their licence. Still get a hefty fine for each offence.

judeboy101

Tell the judge you'll take 2 years in the joy if he doesn't ban you.

challengemaster

bear1 wrote: »

But I thought the other car needs to have insurance as well?
.

Only if the policy document says so. In most cases they don't and you can drive the other car without it requiring its own policy, but most stipulate so long as it is roadworthy (NCT)

In this case it wouldn't matter because no NCT means not roadworthy, so third party extension probably wouldn't apply.

Blazedup wrote: »

Iv seen in Galway district court judges giving defendants an opportunity to get insurance, if they oblige they get to keep their licence. Still get a hefty fine for each offence.

It's not his own car though, so I can't see that happening.

FishOnABike

There's a wide lattitude in sentencing, even in front of the same judge depending on circumstances any mitigating factors and possibly on how well this information is put to the judge.

This report http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/news/learner-driver-fined-3800-30733970.html shows anything from €3,800 with a two year ban down to €250 and no ban.

A conviction either way would seriously impact your ability to get insurance in future and the cost of any insurance you might be quoted for. If I was in your shoes I'd be trying my best to figure out how to get a good solicitor. It could be a worthwhile investment.

boardsuser1

FishOnABike wrote: »

There's a wide lattitude in sentencing, even in front of the same judge depending on circumstances any mitigating factors and possibly on how well this information is put to the judge.

This report http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/news/learner-driver-fined-3800-30733970.html shows anything from €3,800 with a two year ban down to €250 and no ban.

A conviction either way would seriously impact your ability to get insurance in future and the cost of any insurance you might be quoted for. If I was in your shoes I'd be trying my best to figure out how to get a good solicitor. It could be a worthwhile investment.

Interesting cases in that article.

Voodoomelon

You'd almost wonder why you'd bother bringing a solicitor to court for no insurance.

If you're male and of sound mind and health, you are 99.9% getting a driving ban no questions asked. A solicitor may be able to talk down the fine, but you're giving him €500 for the privilege. If money isn't really the issue, I don't see what help they are.

punisher5112

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You'd almost wonder why you'd bother bringing a solicitor to court for no insurance.

If you're male and of sound mind and health, you are 99.9% getting a driving ban no questions asked. A solicitor may be able to talk down the fine, but you're giving him €500 for the privilege. If money isn't really the issue, I don't see what help they are.

I'm my experience and view it can work well having one as from what I could see.

Judges tend to be happier speaking to a solicitor or barrister rather then the defendant as its giving them a job and keeps the money spinning.

Maybe not all but just what I picked up from what I've seen.

Really Interested

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You'd almost wonder why you'd bother bringing a solicitor to court for no insurance.

If you're male and of sound mind and health, you are 99.9% getting a driving ban no questions asked. A solicitor may be able to talk down the fine, but you're giving him €500 for the privilege. If money isn't really the issue, I don't see what help they are.

They know the law and in light of resent case law know if an application will work and what reasons will work in relation to the courts discretion in relation to a first time ban.

I was in court recently where a number of no insurance first offences no ban, one person did not bring a solicitor and despite hints from the judge was not able to give (or understand) the evidence in relation to the court not giving ban hence he got a ban.

Really Interested

punisher5112 wrote: »

I'm my experience and view it can work well having one as from what I could see.

Judges tend to be happier speaking to a solicitor or barrister rather then the defendant as its giving them a job and keeps the money spinning.

Maybe not all but just what I picked up from what I've seen.

Solicitors and Barristers know what they are doing, a criminal list can invoke 100 cases in a day, if all defended themselves the court would be there for hours longer than needed.

Ginger83

allan96 wrote: »

7 months ago I took my dads car because mine was with the mechanic and I had to get to college somehow. Obviously I've hit the checkpoint. I wasn't insured and the NCT was out. Only thing it had was tax. The test was booked in 2 weeks so I couldn't provide it in 10 days as the gardai asked. Im being accused for driving with no insurance and NCT. Never been in court. How much do you think the judge will say ?

I had to get to college somehow....what an idiot.
Do you realise what you could have been facing if you knocked someone down?

Tell me...are they charging your dad for allowing you to take the car or is it theft also?

A ban and rightly so. How many times have you done it without being caught?

allan96

I had to get to college somehow....what an idiot.
Do you realise what you could have been facing if you knocked someone down?

Tell me...are they charging your dad for allowing you to take the car or is it theft also?

A ban and rightly so. How many times have you done it without being caught?

Read the first post and come back when you get your head around what I asked in there.

byronbay2

Voodoomelon wrote: »

If you're male and of sound mind and health, you are 99.9% getting a driving ban no questions asked. A solicitor may be able to talk down the fine, but you're giving him €500 for the privilege. If money isn't really the issue, I don't see what help they are.

I spent an hour in Cork Courthouse last year, not as a defendant I hasten to add! There were about 15 cases of Driving Without Insurance during that time. Each case took 2 or 3 minutes and ended with a €750 fine and 5 penalty points for a first offence. Solicitor or not, made no difference.

Ginger83

allan96 wrote: »

Read the first post and come back when you get your head around what I asked in there.

yep an unroadworthy and uninsured car, prison if judge has any sense.

Voodoomelon

byronbay2 wrote: »

I spent an hour in Cork Courthouse last year, not as a defendant I hasten to add! There were about 15 cases of Driving Without Insurance during that time. Each case took 2 or 3 minutes and ended with a €750 fine and 5 penalty points for a first offence. Solicitor or not, made no difference.

That's what I mean and you hear it all the time. Add €500 for your solicitor and you'd be raging.

allan96

allan96 wrote: »

Read the first post and come back when you get your head around what I asked in there.

The judge won't say much.

He/She will ask a couple of questions. You'll answer them. The judge will ingore the BS and give you a fine and driving license disqualification.

Ginger83

JayZeus wrote: »

The judge won't say much.

He/She will ask a couple of questions. You'll answer them. The judge will ingore the BS and give you a fine and driving license disqualification.

+1

Moomat

There is a quote about lay litigants-

"he who represents himself in court has a fool for a client"

In this case, I would definitely recommend getting legal representation.