Received logbook but didn't buy a car

Evians465

First post but I have been coming here a long time just never made an account.

The other day I received a log book in the post but I didn't buy a car or haven't even owned one for several years. I have obviously rang Shannon and been in touch with the gardai but the reason I am posting here is I am wondering what their motivation would be?

I don't think they will be able to do much with the car as in tax and nct but could probably insure and drive it. And is the person who purchased the car in my name committing an offence?

Just an edit to say it's definitely my name and the right address, it couldn't really have been a mistake.

Indricotherium

Evians465 wrote: »

First post but I have been coming here a long time just never made an account.

The other day I received a log book in the post but I didn't buy a car or haven't even owned one for several years. I have obviously rang Shannon and been in touch with the gardai but the reason I am posting here is I am wondering what their motivation would be?

I don't think they will be able to do much with the car as in tax and nct but could probably insure and drive it. And is the person who purchased the car in my name committing an offence?

Just an edit to say it's definitely my name and the right address, it couldn't really have been a mistake.

Surprise party ruined!!!

colm_mcm

Could be someone wanting to drive the car on third party extension.

Isambard

is it possible someone has access to your letterbox and is using you as an address of convenience? Maybe they planned to intercept the mail ? Tax and insure it in your name, maybe they are disqualified ?

colm_mcm

Change the ownership into one of your neighbours names


Another thing you could do is go to tax the car online. Enter the reg number and the password (its the last 6 digits on the reg cert) this will give you the phone number and email address the person entered as the contact info.
I think it does that anyway.

99problems

Same thing happened to me awhile ago , my misses bought me a car and it ruined the surprise

Evians465

Just did that but it comes up with my name + address because I am the new "owner".

Everyone else saying it's a surprise I doubt it is because nearly everyone knows about now and knows I have been to the gardai so hopefully they would have said something by now
And it's not a car that someone wouldn't buy for me, too big (engine and size of the car).

Does anyone know if this is a criminal offence? The guard wasn't sure, I was thinking identity theft or fraud?

colm_mcm

Yes, but does it have your correct email and phone number?

Evians465

Phone and Email is blank.

colm_mcm

There goes that so. Is it a valuable car, is it something out of the ordinary?

Just struck me that it could be someone avoiding back tax, stick it in your name then back into their name.

FrStone

All penalty points and parking fines will automatically come to you.

Seth Brundle

Could one of your neighbours own it?

fineso.mom

Wouldn't Shannon know who sold the car? Would they give that information to you?

boardsuser1

Go to the local Motor tax office with it, they should be able to say the general area as to where the car was bought, but not from whom. might help in locating it unless you just ruined your own birthday surprise.

pablo128

Young lads are buying bangers and giving false names and address in case they have to ditch it. I'm guessing the car in question is not worth very much.

the_syco

FrStone wrote: »

All penalty points and parking fines will automatically come to you.

OP, best keep a record of where you are for the next few weeks, until you find out who owns the car.

Check the usual car sale sites, in case it's still on one of them?

blackbox

Shannon don't seem to have any system of checking information.

I once accidentally filled in a wrong registration number (01D instead of 02D) and they sent me the ownership document for the wrong car, no questions asked.

Evians465

There isn't many of them for sale when I search for them on Donedeal but I don't think they're valuable, I don't want to say too much about the car but it wouldn't be a highly sought after car which makes it strange.

I was thinking along the same lines but how are they going to tax it now they don't have the log book.

To everyone else posting about where the car was bought I found out it was bought in a town in my county but not the town I live in which doesn't help me narrow it down.

I know I will receive all parking tickets or speeding fines but at least I have notified the gardai which should help if anything does happen in the future.

Evians465

I can't seem to quote posts, maybe because I'm new. I have checked the usual selling site but no match so far.

Having done a google i'm nearly sure I have found the car on donedeal but when I click on it just says the car has been sold so I can't see anything else

fineso.mom

FrStone wrote: »

All penalty points and parking fines will automatically come to you.

Actually I know someone who ended up in court because her idiot boyfriend put a car in her name without telling her, got a parking fine and didn't pay it so she got a summons. It was the first she knew of it ,and the last of him shortly afterwards.
But I'd imagine since the OP has contacted Shannon and the guards already he/she won't have a problem .
Actually just thinking outloud here,,, could the OP report the car as stolen since he has the log book but no car?

punisher5112

Take a copy of log book/vlc and return to Shannon with a written letter stating this is not your car and to remove your name from it.

Another thing you could do is send it off to a fictitious name and address. But could be seen as you did have it so best not.

Keep copy of report from garda also if you got one.

With their anpr it should flag up on their systems so hopefully you hear no more.

tabby aspreme

Could be a scam OP, a pal of mine had something similar happen recently, the postman knocked on his door one morning with a letter addressed to a woman at his address, having lived there for years the postman knows him well and knew that no such person lived there, the postman also recognized the letter as a logbook from Shannon so he recommended it be sent back as he heard of a similar scam, three days later a lady of an Irish ethnic group arrived at his door looking for her post , he asked her why her post should be at his house when she didn't live there, she insisted that there should be a letter there for her so he ran her,

Evians465

Yeah if I don't hear any more about in the next few days I think I'll send it back but I do have to go back down to the guards in the next week. But it is addressed to my name and address.

the_syco

Evians465 wrote: »

Having done a google i'm nearly sure I have found the car on donedeal but when I click on it just says the car has been sold so I can't see anything else

Right click and copy the link, and search for it in Google; you may get the cache of it.

fineso.mom wrote: »

Actually just thinking outloud here,,, could the OP report the car as stolen since he has the log book but no car?

If doing this, let the Gardai know that you want it impounded when found; it may not be a good idea having it delivered to your address.

Evians465

I thought about reporting it stolen but I don't know if it's the best idea if the person knows my address.

pablo128

Evians465 wrote: »

I thought about reporting it stolen but I don't know if it's the best idea if the person knows my address.

It wasn't stolen from you so you would be making a false report. If the driver is stopped and can prove he didn't steal it, you are in trouble. Whether he gave a false name to register the car is irrelevant, and won't get you out of trouble.

Evians465

Does anyone know if the person committed a crime putting my name on the log book?

Four Phucs Ache

Whats the car ??

Sorry didn't see you wanted to withhold that.

Has any post gone missing lately or have you got any phone calls from any service providers ?

Did you sell anything recently that may have had your details unknown to you?

colm_mcm

Evians465 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the person committed a crime putting my name on the log book?

They would have forged your signature on a document so I'd say it's very likely.

PrettyBoy

Surely it would be considered fraud if the actual buyer used someone else's personal details without their knowledge when purchasing a car? It would make them liable for fines and penalties. If the car was used in a robbery or to evade tolls it would create serious hassle for the person whose details were used - they would have a lot of explaining to do if the guards came knocking on the door.

mikeecho

A letter to Shannon, by registered post, stating that you are not the owner, and that that you have received the documention in error.

Also, contact local Gardai, and ask them to create intel on the vehicle stating that you are not the legal owner, and that you have received the log book in error.

Might give you some defence, when the toll, parking, speeding tickets and summons start rolling in.

punisher5112

It would indeed be classed as fraud but the issue is the cops aren't to interested in.

Hopefully they will be able to red flag the car if it passes any of their anpr equipped vehicles.

I would as I said above copy all sides of log book and send to Shannon also with a copy of garda pulse number and state this is not your vehicle and someone has fraudulently used your personal details and most likely also is impersonating you or has forged your signature.

Rothmans

6.—(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception induces another to do or refrain from doing an act is guilty of an offence.

I can't see it being fraud (in the criminal sense at least), but it'd be interesting to know if there is an actual offence here, and what it is.

EDIT: Perhaps s115 of the RTA 1961, if still in force?

115.—(1) Where a person is required by this Act or regulations thereunder to furnish particulars in connection with an application for the grant or issue of a licence or certificate or otherwise in connection with a licence, certificate or vehicle, he shall not furnish pursuant to the requirement any particulars which to his knowledge are false or in any material respect misleading.
(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) Where, in a prosecution for an offence under subsection (2) of this section with respect to particulars in connection with an application for the grant or issue of a licence or certificate, such grant or issue and an application therefor are proved, it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that the person to whom the licence or certificate was granted or issued made the application.
(4) A person shall not forge or fraudulently alter or use, or fraudulently lend to, or allow to be used by, any other person, any licence, plate, badge or certificate issued under this Act or under regulations thereunder.
(5) A person who contravenes subsection (4) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.
(6) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.
(7) Notwithstanding subsection (4) of section 10 of the Petty Sessions (Ireland) Act, 1851 , proceedings for an offence under subsection (2) of this section may be instituted within twelve months from the date of the offence.

uck51js9zml2yt

Your better off talking to the local MTO.
Ask to speak to someone in Garda enquiries. They can check whether it was processed in an MTO (and pull the last log book if theirs) or Shannon.

If youre in Dublin send me a pm. I can give you a name.

ironclaw

Gibson Ambitious Spoonful wrote: »

Your better off talking to the local MTO

ironclaw

ironclaw wrote: »

Motor Taxation Office

Indricotherium

Rothmans wrote: »

I can't see it being fraud (in the criminal sense at least), but it'd be interesting to know if there is an actual offence here, and what it is.

It's the very definition of fraud in the criminal sense?

Whoever it is has falsely represented themselves on the change of ownership form for some sort of gain.

It couldn't be clearer.

childsplay

mikeecho wrote:

A letter to Shannon, by registered post, stating that you are not the owner, and that that you have received the documention in error.

When they receive this letter, they will ask you to complete a form and sign it in the presence of a witness (commissioner of oaths or solicitor. Costs about €20). This form is a legal document in which you swear you do not own this car.

I had a situation were l sold a car to a car dealer who never sent in the change of owner forms. I was getting sent motor tax demands. I went through the process of writing to Shannon and this was the what happened. Never heard any more about it all after that.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I'm going to hazard a guess that it was bought by someone that knows you. It's an older low value car and possibly RWD and was bought by some young lad who doesn't care whether it's in their name or not as it's for horsing around back roads at night. The seller insisted on filling out the VLC and posting it off rather than just handing it to the buyer so whoever it was gave your name/address.

Have you any younger brothers or nephews that could have done it?

Is it a RWD car?

Rothmans

Indricotherium wrote: »

It's the very definition of fraud in the criminal sense?

Whoever it is has falsely represented themselves on the change of ownership form for some sort of gain.

It couldn't be clearer.

But where's the inducement? Who has been induced? What is the gain? It doesn't seem clear at all. The first section I put in bold is the definition of fraud, and the criteria outlined don't seem to be satisfied in this instance. Certainly not with the facts as they stand.

punisher5112

Rothmans wrote: »

But where's the inducement? Who has been induced? What is the gain? It doesn't seem clear at all. The first section I put in bold is the definition of fraud, and the criteria outlined don't seem to be satisfied in this instance. Certainly not with the facts as they stand.[/quot



But another person has committed an offence by impersonating and then fraudulently signing a legal document with details of not whom they actually are.

There gain will be not been given any parking or motor offence fines.

ads20101

This has a whiff of fraud about it.

Time to let the guards have a look at this.

punisher5112

ads20101 wrote: »

This has a whiff of fraud about it.

Time to let the guards have a look at this.

Op has gone to them about it already and they were unsure.

Rothmans

punisher5112 wrote: »

But another person has committed an offence by impersonating and then fraudulently signing a legal document with details of not whom they actually are.

There gain will be not been given any parking or motor offence fines.

Oh I agree absolutely that an offence may very well have been committed. For example s115 of the RTA that I outlined earlier. However I'm not of the opinion that there was an offence of fraud as per section 6 of the Theft and Fraud Act (definition provided earlier). Nobody has been able to point to an inducement or gain by deception, which necessarily needs to be shown for this to be regarded as s6 fraud.
I accept your example re parking tickets, but that's just a hypothetical gain. There is nothing in OP which states that this is the case. So there has been no actual gain made at this point. It could just as easily be the case, as other posters pointed out, that it could be a couple of young lads using it to drive around a field, in which case there certainly would be no gain made.

Jack the Stripper

colm_mcm wrote: »

Change the ownership into one of your neighbours names


Another thing you could do is go to tax the car online. Enter the reg number and the password (its the last 6 digits on the reg cert) this will give you the phone number and email address the person entered as the contact info.
I think it does that anyway.

Is the last 6 digits the chassis number?

punisher5112

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

Is the last 6 digits the chassis number?

Sometimes it is and other times can be number on front page at top

colm_mcm

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

Is the last 6 digits the chassis number?

punisher5112 wrote: »

Sometimes it is and other times can be number on front page at top

The only time it's the last 6 digits of the chassis is when the VRC doesn't exist. I.e. First time taxing the car in Ireland (new car or imported car)
Other than that it's the last 6 digits on the VRC serial number, which changes when a new VRC is issued.

99problems

99problems wrote: »

Same thing happened to me awhile ago , my misses bought me a car

If Carlsberg did missuses...

Evians465

I doubt it was any of my family but could have been one of their friends but I doubt that as well.

It is front wheel drive. I don't think I should say what the car is but I don't think it would be high up on the list of cars that young lads want to mess around with.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Why not say what car it is? You have nothing to hide but the person who put it in your name does. Why are you protecting them? I wouldn't worry about it and send the book back to Shannon (but keep a photo copy of it)

Indricotherium

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Why not say what car it is? You have nothing to hide but the person who put it in your name does. Why are you protecting them? I wouldn't worry about it and send the book back to Shannon (but keep a photo copy of it)

And he surely already knows your details.