All Ireland Senior Football Championships 2017 - Read Mod Note Post #1

bruschi

DoctaDee wrote: »

Ah supposed better teams than Carlow have stunk the place out with their defensive systems playing Dublin, I wouldn't be that hard on them

They also at many stages against wexford had 14 or 15 inside their own 45 defending, so if they are going to do it against a crap team like wexford, they were certainly going to do it against Dublin.

Hammer Archer

bruschi wrote: »

Probably not too surprisingly, but it worked a treat against wexford. All their team bar the full forward line and some of the half forward line stayed inside their 45. Wexfords amazing counteraction to it was to follow their men, so Murphy had all the space between both 45s with just him and wexfords 4th choice midfielder being the only 2 players in a huge area of the field. Unbelievable really only for it was so inept to watch from wexford.

The joys of Banty as manager.

DoctaDee

bruschi wrote: »

They also at many stages against wexford had 14 or 15 inside their own 45 defending, so if they are going to do it against a crap team like wexford, they were certainly going to do it against Dublin.

I really struggled to conceive how they beat you coming out of the game yesterday - the free taker has a sweet left foot and other than Murphys direct running they really lacked any other threat

tikkahunter

glack wrote: »

Connolly gets plenty of special treatment for sure, but so do the top players for all the top 5/6 teams. The difference with Connolly is oppositions knows that if the wind him up enough they'll get a reaction. I'm not saying it's right but Dublin have plenty of players who dole out this type of treatment to others so it definitely goes both ways. Just with Connolly he struggles to handle it mentally, particularly when he's not playing at his usual standard.

He's a smart guy. He knows you absolutely can not touch an official. You can be sure he's heard the 2 recent cases. He did it anyway and has no one to blame but himself. Whatever the Carlow players did to him beforehand deserves punishment too. And if he had reacted to them rather than the linesman he'd probably be looking at a one match ban rather than a possible 12 weeks.

Yes he gets special treatment to say the least , not excusing what he did but have you been at Dublin matches and Vincents games ? It is non stop the whole game sly kicks , digs and dragging the whole game,he puts up with a lot in fairness . Im all on for letting your man know your there but he gets little or no protection from officials and does show a lot of restraint. You only see the isolated incidents on tv but when you are at the games you see what he puts up with .Putting his hands on an official was stupid but i wouldn't have blamed him if he decked one of the 3 players hanging out of his neck.

bruschi

DoctaDee wrote: »

I really struggled to conceive how they beat you coming out of the game yesterday - the free taker has a sweet left foot and other than Murphys direct running they really lacked any other threat

See hammer archers post above...

nice_guy80

Delighted for Carlow yesterday
can be proud of their efforts.
Division 4 v Division 1
population: 56,000 v 1.34 million
coaching and games development: 3 full time staff vs 50+ staff

mattser

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You can can call it all you like

Say its anti this and that.

You should not be allowed touch official. 6 months and that might put stop to it.

These officials give their free time. Getting no respect in GAA

Why would they get respect when they didn't even see fit to give him a card for this. Dublin are Ferguson's Man Utd.

PARlance

I'm not a big fan of ultra defensive systems but I was glued to that match last night. The game could have been played a thousand times and no matter what tactics were employed, there would only be one winner.

It was all about keeping it somewhat respectable, to try to frustrate Dublin for a significant period, to leave the field with something to build on. Carlow did that excellently imo.

Not many teams will go 70+ without conceding a goal to Dublin, that's an achievement whoever you are. Their kickout strategy was bizarre for a chunk of the first half but they eventually changed it up a bit. The work rate they showed was immense. While they spent a lot of time in possession passing it around at the back they often ended up with a big man running hard at Dublin. Sean Murphy was the best player on the pitch, looked like Seamus O'Shea on Steriods.

I was joking in the Dublin thread about not givimg one fcuk about their team selection. It honestly doesn't matter who play in the forwards for me, as long as Kilkenny has this "playmaker" (or non-playmaker role to be more exact) then Dublin are giving the chasing pack a big chance.

Carlow got what they wanted from yesterday. I can live with the negativity in their case, it only really gets frustrating for me when you see teams with some chance of winning seemingly not trying to. Dublin will get a kick up the ar*e from it, probably more helpful than giving Carlow a hammering. Everyone else got a bit more hope, a ponderous attack and susceptibility to direct running gives us a chance.

jr86

Carlow an "absolute disgrace" for actually trying to frustrate Dublin and not go all out man-to-man where as Hammer Archer says they probably would have lost by about 30

People really do have strange views

Bonniedog

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Delighted for Carlow yesterday
can be proud of their efforts.
Division 4 v Division 1
population: 56,000 v 1.34 million
coaching and games development: 3 full time staff vs 50+ staff

Carlow has more full time coaches per head of population than Dublin

jr86

PARlance wrote: »

Dublin will get a kick up the ar*e from it, probably more helpful than giving Carlow a hammering. Everyone else got a bit more hope, a ponderous attack and susceptibility to direct running gives us a chance.

Fully agree with your post

Dublin have been given plenty of "Kicks up the arse" now between last year and the league this year already.

It's a very interesting year for them. They certainly look to be a step below the 2013-2015 seasons so far but we probably won't really know that, however, till a semi but will it be too late then?

Bar the Mayo massacre (and they're still more than capable of a lights out performance) it was a pretty underwhelming league

They're the safe bet but for the first time since 2012 I'm not nearly as confident in predicting them for Sam (they were still far and away the best team in Ireland in 2014 for me)

glack

tikkahunter wrote: »

Yes he gets special treatment to say the least , not excusing what he did but have you been at Dublin matches and Vincents games ? It is non stop the whole game sly kicks , digs and dragging the whole game,he puts up with a lot in fairness . Im all on for letting your man know your there but he gets little or no protection from officials and does show a lot of restraint. You only see the isolated incidents on tv but when you are at the games you see what he puts up with .Putting his hands on an official was stupid but i wouldn't have blamed him if he decked one of the 3 players hanging out of his neck.

I've been to a few league games in Croker and I know exactly what you're talking about. It must be so frustrating for him. Buts he's certainly not the only player in the country treated in this manner. It's not right, but the reality is it happens. He needs to deal with it better. He reacts much quicker than others subjected to the same type of punishment. And he's now being targeted even more because teams know he's easy to provoke. If he gave a dig to one of the Carlow players I wouldn't have blamed him. But pushing a linesman no matter how minor was down right stupid. There has been so much talk about Comerford that it was bound to create serious scrutiny. If he doesn't get banned it's seriously unfair on Comeford as his offense was similar.

nice_guy80

Bonniedog wrote: »

Carlow has more full time coaches per head of population than Dublin

Dublin has more than 50.
I don't know the exact number. NASA are working on the calculations

corny

jr86 wrote: »

Carlow an "absolute disgrace" for actually trying to frustrate Dublin and not go all out man-to-man where as Hammer Archer says they probably would have lost by about 30

People really do have strange views

I wouldn't go with 'disgrace' but i'm genuinely struggling to see what extra you gain from losing by 12 and not 20-25?

Bonniedog

I get the impression that the closer he comes to finishing up - he's 30 now I think? - that less he is prepared to put up with cr@p. And he gets it in Dublin club as much as inter county.

As others have said some of the stuff he is subjected to is unbelievable. Then again, likes of Gooch and Canavan and Brogan have endured similar without ever in my recollection lost the plot.

Indeed the common response now to Dean Rock scoring a free is for opposition to slam into him and engage in trash talk. He seems to be able to deal with that, sometimes with a judicious shoulder in responde.

I have great sympathy for Connolly and Dublin would not have won many crucial games without him, but can't defend pushing a linesman.

radharc

corny wrote: »

I wouldn't go with 'disgrace' but i'm genuinely struggling to see what extra you gain from losing by 12 and not 20-25?

lol what?

And do you see any gain from winning by 15 rather than win by 1?

DoctaDee

I had to smile when Brogan came on, he trotted down to the corner back and you could see him steeling himself for a shoulder barge from Bernard, who totally disarmed the situation stuck his hand out for a quick shake, and when the Carlow lad wasn't really forthcoming Brogan just gave him a tap on the back and off he went.

Rutting just never was his style .. class in so many ways

corny

Bonniedog wrote: »

I get the impression that the closer he comes to finishing up - he's 30 now I think? - that less he is prepared to put up with cr@p. And he gets it in Dublin club as much as inter county.

As others have said some of the stuff he is subjected to is unbelievable. Then again, likes of Gooch and Canavan and Brogan have endured similar without ever in my recollection lost the plot.

Indeed the common response now to Dean Rock scoring a free is for opposition to slam into him and engage in trash talk. He seems to be able to deal with that, sometimes with a judicious shoulder in responde.

I have great sympathy for Connolly and Dublin would not have won many crucial games without him, but can't defend pushing a linesman.

Agreed.

Connolly is part of the problem if you ask me. He plays the game as it were. He was well up for getting Keegan sent off last year for example and from what i could see he focused most of his energy yesterday in enjoying the banter with the shorter chap marking him.

He does put up with an immense of **** but part of the problem is he's not trying to escape it. He embraces it as part of the game and as such, he wants to win at it. Was it after Laois last year where he effectively said as much in a post match interview?

corny

radharc wrote: »

lol what?

And do you see any gain from winning by 15 rather than win by 1?

Was that the question asked?

Bonniedog

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Dublin has more than 50.
I don't know the exact number. NASA are working on the calculations

Last year Dublin received 14% of GAA development funds. Dublin has 20% of the population.

OldMrBrennan83

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DoctaDee

Patww79 wrote: »

Heart, determination, gaa buzzwords, etc etc.

Or basically strangling a game and giving away easy scorable frees at every opportunity is something that heroes do.

I was listening to Newstalk on the way home, and they were asking the question whether other teams should follow the Carlow example and improve on it by adding​ a bit more guile.. so it maybe a long summer for ya Pat ..

But as I said earlier a lot better teams than Carlow have been doing it for a good deal longer - Steven Poachers handprint was all over that performance yesterday

PARlance

corny wrote: »

I wouldn't go with 'disgrace' but i'm genuinely struggling to see what extra you gain from losing by 12 and not 20-25?

While the points difference doesn't always reflect the manner of the defeat, it's generally a good indication.

The difference between getting a hammering or putting up a valiant effort can be huge for a small County. Yesterday was a little something for Carlow to build on. Lads mightn't be inclined to jump on the next flight, others may be attracted back to the fold, the know they can frustrate the AI champs etc. A little hope goes a long way in games like yesterday imo.

It may be short lived but I think it's good to see. Even the fact that we got to see Carlow play was good to see.

Jayop

corny wrote: »

Agreed.

Connolly is part of the problem if you ask me. He plays the game as it were. He was well up for getting Keegan sent off last year for example and from what i could see he focused most of his energy yesterday in enjoying the banter with the shorter chap marking him.

He does put up with an immense of **** but part of the problem is he's not trying to escape it. He embraces it as part of the game and as such, he wants to win at it. Was it after Laois last year where he effectively said as much in a post match interview?

Exactly. There was one shown on replay a few times of Connolly pushing his man who wasn't touching him about 7 times one after the other. He's not some innocent angel that would play the beautiful game if only the bad men would leave him alone.

OldMrBrennan83

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OldMrBrennan83

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Tombo2001

Really unimpressed with reaction of Dublin fans to the Carlow performance - just smacks of arrogance and shows how disconnected they are from the reality of county football outside of the capital.

The advantages Dublin has - though Dublin fans are absolutely sick of hearing it - are just so enormous. And so be it.

But to know you have those advantages - and then still start whining and moaning about the opposition playing defensively. What the hell else do people expect them do to. Carlow doesn't have a single player that would make the Dublin panel........so the only - only - only way they can compete is by playing ultra defensively.

Dublin went into the game 500-1 favourites. In other words, the bookies are saying Carlow went into the game with less than a 1% chance of winning.

With half an hour left in the game - because of strategy they employed, and because the players executed it so well - Carlow were 3 points down. 1 score away from being level. Phenomenal performance for a team that was given no chance.

And then their best player gets sent off. The rules are the rules - but if a team like Carlow is playing a team like Dublin - with the tiny fraction of the population Dublin has, with the complete lack of games at a top level, with lack of funding compared to Dublin, the lack of club depth compared to Dublin - if team like Carlow is playing Dublin and competing - and then their best player is going to be sent off, then at least it needs to be cast iron red card; and for me, it just wasn't yesterday and that's whats so disappointing about yesterday, that with all the advantages Dublin have, they don't also need the referee calls going in their favour too.

As for the Dublin fans - it reminds me a bit of when ManU or Arsenal are taking on Yeovil town or whatever in the FA Cup......and Yeovil go all defensive and the Arsenal fans are giving out about them parking the bus and all that......its just complete arrogance.

Let Dublin pick a team from the playing population of just Finglas - put them playing in Division 3 in the league, and then let them play Kerry in their first championship match - I wonder what nice style of expansive football they would play.

OldMrBrennan83

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Tombo2001

Patww79 wrote: »

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The point I made was not to give out the population difference. Read my post, I said "so be it". Not complaining.

The point is - if you have that undeniable population difference, then please respect the fact they only way that most counties can compete is to go ultra defensive. And how well they compete reflect how well they can play that style, which in Carlows case they did very well.

And in response, all the Dublin fans are whining about it.

When Ireland plays Brazil or Germany in soccer - we go all out defence. Whats the difference here?

keane2097

Patww79 wrote: »

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Maybe if the likes of you didn't call teams an absolute disgrace we wouldn't need to have the conversation at all.