If your first reaction on hearing about a terror attack in your city....

Yourself isit

[Deleted User] wrote: »

ACP has already responded correctly here.

The opposite of a guess is not another guess.

I posted stats half an hour ago.

pangbang

pangbang wrote: »

So what number are you going to put forward? 2%? 0.5%? 10.2678%?

And all the proof to back it up please.

I can, simply using some common sense, believe a guess of a few percent. A few percent of 1.6 billion people is a huge number.

Why would we put a number forward? This isn't how it works. You make a claim. We ask you to back up your claim. You could not, therefore your claim is wrong. If you had been able to back up your claim, then we would have accepted it. You can't just make a claim, then get annoyed and frustrated when you are not able to back it up or when we ask you to.

That is far more dangerous than anything else.

Now.. I am able to say that the majority of Muslims don't agree with ISIS and groups such as them, because I am able to back up the claim by a relevant and trustworthy body. See relevant article, which was posted already

RayM

A Little Pony wrote: »

I don't buy into that argument for the simple fact that ISIS and Islamic terrorists urged followers to use this technique to use cars or trucks to mow people down. And what happens? Islamic terrorists start using those vehicles to murder people. We saw it in Germany, we saw it in Sweden and we saw it in London.

It fundamentally tells me something is going on, ISIS has infiltrated Europe with members and the ideology is spreading. Its a huge problem and its a matter of time before something happens again in the UK or the ROI.

Are any of these sad, angry little men who carry out the attacks actual members of ISIS? I mean, do they get training or anything? I presume it doesn't take a lot of training to crash a vehicle. I know ISIS 'claims responsibility' whenever these attacks happen, but what - apart from calling for people to use this technique - exactly do they do?

Who, apart from ISIS, is helped by calling these murderers 'terrorists'?

pangbang

Deleted User wrote: »

ACP has already responded correctly here.

The opposite of a guess is not another guess.

And a conversation consisting of one side demanding statistics while simultaneously contributing nothing is not a debate or conversation either.

Or do you actually have something to say?

Irish Praetorian

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would we put a number forward? This isn't how it works. You make a claim. We ask you to back up your claim. You could not, therefore your claim is wrong. If you had been able to back up your claim, then we would have accepted it. You can't just make a claim, then get annoyed and frustrated when you are not able to back it up or when we ask you to.

That is far more dangerous than anything else.

Now.. I am able to say that the majority of Muslims don't agree with ISIS and groups such as them, because I am able to back up the claim by a relevant and trustworthy body. See relevant article, which was posted already

If I could just pick you up on a minor technical point, the article in question refers to polling about ISIS alone, we have no indication how they view less extreme groups from that source and I think it might be premature to presume such a thing. I think it is rather unwise to represent the gamut of Islamist fundamentalism as ISIS and suicide bombing.

pangbang

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would we put a number forward? This isn't how it works. You make a claim. We ask you to back up your claim. You could not, therefore your claim is wrong. If you had been able to back up your claim, then we would have accepted it. You can't just make a claim, then get annoyed and frustrated when you are not able to back it up or when we ask you to.

That is far more dangerous than anything else.

Now.. I am able to say that the majority of Muslims don't agree with ISIS and groups such as them, because I am able to back up the claim by a relevant and trustworthy body. See relevant article, which was posted already

So what have you got to say then? What do you believe? What do you have to contribute?

Irish Praetorian

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

If I could just pick you up on a minor technical point, the article in question refers to polling about ISIS alone, we have no indication how they view less extreme groups from that source and I think it might be premature to presume such a thing. I think it is rather unwise to represent the gamut of Islamist fundamentalism as ISIS and suicide bombing.

The article says "How do Muslims feel about groups like ISIS?", which would make me think that they are not referring to that particular group alone, even making reference to Boko Harem. It does mention ISIS, but then goes on discussing suicide attacks & other forms of attacks in the name of Islam.

Irish Praetorian

Deleted User wrote: »

The article says "How do Muslims feel about groups like ISIS?", which would make me think that they are not referring to that particular group alone, even making reference to Boko Harem. It does mention ISIS, but then goes on discussing suicide attacks & other forms of attacks in the name of Islam.

I saw that too which threw me off a little so I went to the various surveys referred to and they all pose the question directly about ISIS, specifically;

"Do you have a ___ opinion of the Islamic militant group in Iraq and Syria known as ISIS"

pangbang

pangbang wrote: »

And a conversation consisting of one side demanding statistics while simultaneously contributing nothing is not a debate or conversation either.

Or do you actually have something to say?

I've one more thing to say to you on this thread: numerous people have pointed out the problem with your chosen approach. They don't owe you anything at all given your pretty ludicrous statements, and they certainly don't owe you an argument on the terms of your choosing.

Widdershins

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

If I could just pick you up on a minor technical point, the article in question refers to polling about ISIS alone, we have no indication how they view less extreme groups from that source and I think it might be premature to presume such a thing. I think it is rather unwise to represent the gamut of Islamist fundamentalism as ISIS and suicide bombing.

Islamist fundamentalism is not only about jihad attacks but also about the cultural aspects, the human rights aspects, the social aspects. Ignorance of that, can make it seem like the jihadist insurgency appeared out of the blue, but of course it didn't.
I shared this on another thread but found it so well rounded, with the views of a variety of people including some Muslims.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/magazine/france-election-gilles-kepel-islam.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1

gitzy16v

It's quite funny reading an argument where one side claims a minority of Muslims are extremists and the other claims the majority are not extremist....does that mean we all agree and can drop the stupid generalisations on both sides...like nobody thinks ALL Muslims are extremists and equally nobody thinks NONE are extremists.

Everyone agrees there is a problem with radical Islam and Muslims are the ones most affected by it

CoolHandBandit

The media is a total mess and has failed us all miserably over the last few years. The OP's post proves how they are working against the common good of us all.

Widdershins

A Little Pony wrote: »

If the media reported the truth to what is really happening in Europe/UK it would start a riot. The Rotherham case being a perfect example of systematic rape and child abuse for years covered up by the security forces so as to not offend or get called racist.

I don't think it would literally start a riot. I don't think most people react that way in Ireland.

ancapailldorcha

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

The media is a total mess and has failed us all miserably over the last few years. The OP's post proves how they are working against the common good of us all.

The OP's post cites only 3 tweets which isn't proof of anything.

Yourself isit

Widdershins wrote: »

I don't think it would literally start a riot. I don't think most people react that way in Ireland.

Well if isis were to announce they supported water charges things might kick off.

BabyCheeses

Widdershins wrote: »

I don't think it would literally start a riot. I don't think most people react that way in Ireland.

People didn't react with riots when it was found in Ireland. We don't have to go for what ifs. Child abuse being covered up did happen here and the result was 0 riots. At most a few percent changed their answer on the census.

NinjaKirby

Harry Palmr wrote: »

My first reaction is to remember more Americans have died getting out of the bath than from terrorist actions in the last 15 years. I do not react "politically" but with the power of statistical probability

Would you react differently if it was someone you loved who died in this way though?

Your "reaction" only works well because you have basically removed empathy from the equation.

Let's say you have an 11 year old daughter and she dies getting out of the bath or is killed in some other kind of accident. Once the initial shock of the tragedy has passed you would, I assume, always look back on it and in some way you might end up thinking "nothing could be done" or "it was just an accident"

Now imagine you have an 11 year old daughter and she is murdered by a man who thinks he is acting on Gods behalf. Surely your immediate and lifelong reaction to that would be significantly different?

I'm sorry but if my 99 year old grandmother dies getting out of the bath or my wife is murdered by some religious fanatic then my reaction is not going to be the same in both cases.

Otherwise, our collective response to terrorist attacks may as well be "ah, sure, everyone dies anyway".

NinjaKirby

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

.....is to immediately use the deaths of 4 innocent people as a platform to have a go at the 'far right', you're the reason the terrorists are winning.

Here is something I don't quite understand.

Wouldn't Islam itself be regarded as a "right wing" ideology?

As an example, if we took maybe the average opinion on atheism, blasphemy same sex marriage and abortion from Christians and then took the average opinion on the same topics from Muslims then wouldn't they mostly hold the same views and wouldn't those views be classed as "far right" or "right wing"?

Or would Islam be seen as "left wing"?

Widdershins

NinjaKirby wrote: »

Here is something I don't quite understand.

Wouldn't Islam itself be regarded as a "right wing" ideology?

As an example, if we took maybe the average opinion on atheism, blasphemy same sex marriage and abortion from Christians and then took the average opinion on the same topics from Muslims then wouldn't they mostly hold the same views and wouldn't those views be classed as "far right" or "right wing"?

Or would Islam be seen as "left wing"?

Fundamentalist Islamic beliefs are closer to fascism, take for example attitudes to 'race mixing', homosexuality, and women.

NinjaKirby

Widdershins wrote: »

Fundamentalist Islamic beliefs are closer to fascism, take for example attitudes to 'race mixing', homosexuality, and women.

Yeah, something I would be curious about is if Ireland brought in a sizeable amount of Muslim immigrants would they have had the ability to vote in the same sex marriage referrendum etc?

Would they vote to "Repeal the 8th" or would they vote against it?

So, I see a lot of "left wing" people who are in favour of immigration but it seems the immigrants they want to bring in would be in direct opposition to a lot of their other causes regarding LGBT issues or womens rights issues.

Feels like there are a lot of people "on the left" who are attacking fascists from "over here" by defending fascists from "over there" when they probably should just be attacking fascist ideologies full stop.

Manny89

Article reads like he's more concerned about political parties who he dislikes getting a boost than the actual injured and dead.