SEAI event in RDS... anyone going?

peposhi

Hey, lads (and lasses), anyone going tomorrow or Thursday to the SEAI event in RDS?
I may manage to pop up for a couple of hours on Thursday morning.
I bet the show will give plenty of reasons for thought re car charging/power storage/saving energy and all...

Gumbo

Yeah, i'm going on Thursday.
Its related to my work but I also booked a Tesla Model S drive for Thursday morning

goz83

I'm going tomorrow. Getting an extension done and want to look at potential renewables while the work is getting done. It's an area that I have little knowledge about, so hoping to get some enlightenment. Maybe I can get rid of the electric shower in a few months, or maybe move it to a planned under stairs wc, where it would rarely be used.

Gumbo

goz83 wrote: »

I'm going tomorrow. Getting an extension done and want to look at potential renewables while the work is getting done. It's an area that I have little knowledge about, so hoping to get some enlightenment. Maybe I can get rid of the electric shower in a few months, or maybe move it to a planned under stairs wc, where it would rarely be used.

That's my plan, although I work in the construction/Planning/Building Control field.

I don't have an electric shower, I use a Supajet pumped shower and hoping to install solar water panels while my roof is off!

peposhi

From what I can see there will be an EV designated car park section. I wonder if there would be enough space when I arrive presuming a lot of tech guys with EVs will already be there...

Gumbo

peposhi wrote: »

From what I can see there will be an EV designated car park section. I wonder if there would be enough space when I arrive presuming a lot of tech guys with EVs will already be there...

I have a permit to park on one of the public roads near by for free (perk of the job :P), but if there was a dedicated EV section it may entice me to park in there.

Gumbo

Dedicated EV Visitor Parking

Attached Site Plan

goz83

I spent an hour browsing the event. It was quiet enough, which I don't like, because then every sales person is approaching you about stuff you have zero interest in. I was avoiding displays I might have had a browse at, because I got tired of saying I was just having a look.

On the positive side, there was a Tesla S and X on display. The boot space in the X is more than I thought it would be. Still way too high a price though.

unkel

See my post in the Ioniq thread where you can see the S and X beside each other from an interesting angle. Model X is huge (and 2,600kg incl. driver. And a full tank of petrol )

cros13

How is access to the visitor EV parking?

I'm thinking of popping down around lunchtime tomorrow to have a nose around (have a registration).

ted1

ESB Should have news on their SolarPV offering and their EHeat offering. Worth talking to them

any further reports - is it worth checking out?

unkel

ted1 wrote: »

ESB Should have news on their SolarPV offering

What offering is this now? Surely not the announcement of a feed in tariff?

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

What offering is this now? Surely not the announcement of a feed in tariff?

ESB staff talking about it internally. But no official word yet.

Calahonda52

cros13 wrote: »

How is access to the visitor EV parking?

I'm thinking of popping down around lunchtime tomorrow to have a nose around (have a registration).

None of the security staff knew anything about it I got short shrift...
Saw a Leaf clamped on Serpentine Ave on way home:pac:

....
Minister said that no more grants for fossil fuel energy sources in home renos: details to follow.
Up to 50% of the "costs" will be cover by the grant so all there RES stuff just got more expensive.

goz83 wrote: »

I spent an hour browsing the event. It was quiet enough, which I don't like, because then every sales person is approaching you about stuff you have zero interest in. I was avoiding displays I might have had a browse at, because I got tired of saying I was just having a look.

On the positive side, there was a Tesla S and X on display. The boot space in the X is more than I thought it would be. Still way too high a price though.

very poor offering on electric bikes

The attached got my attention

peposhi

Going with the little lad tomorrow around 10-12.00h, depending on what time we leave the house.
There is definitely an EV designated parking area, will have the map of the event with me in case a parking warden has not got a clue.
There was a post on Facebook - you could even charge your car there for your journey back.
Cross, I might see you there

aliveandkicking

unkel wrote: »

What offering is this now? Surely not the announcement of a feed in tariff?

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/electric-ireland-moves-into-residential-solar-market-1.3037528

It seems to be a 1.5KW array for the mindbogglingly outrageous price of €5000. The only benefit is you can pay them by the month over a few years rather than have the outlay all upfront.

unkel

€5,500 for savings of €250 per year. Sure it will pay for itself in 22 years (disregarding interest / opportunity costs of money / maintenance). Bargain. Not.

Anyone know any of the specs / details, for the giggles?

unkel

Missed that you mentioned 1.5kW array. That's never going to average you €250 savings per year.

Recent post on the renewables forum from a regular poster who know his stuff:

"Hardware for a 2.2kw system . On a south facing roof, that would produce about 2,000 KwHrs per year.

If you use 1/3rd of this (and that would be very modest) to displace daytime power at 18c, and the other 2/3rds to heat water (saving night rate 9c) your average electricity saving is 12c. So you have payback of €240 per year"

And he was a bit generous with the rates. Cheapest day rate is 13c and night rate 7c both incl VAT, so a 2.2kW system would save you €180
and the above system would save you just €120 :rolleyes:

So a payback time of like 50 years :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why don't they just offer us meter netting? Or a half decent feed in tariff? Everybody wins there...

But I guess someone has to pay the ESB workers who earn over €100k per year on average...

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

Missed that you mentioned 1.5kW array. That's never going to average you €250 savings per year.

Recent post on the renewables forum from a regular poster who know his stuff:

"Hardware for a 2.2kw system . On a south facing roof, that would produce about 2,000 KwHrs per year.

If you use 1/3rd of this (and that would be very modest) to displace daytime power at 18c, and the other 2/3rds to heat water (saving night rate 9c) your average electricity saving is 12c. So you have payback of €240 per year"

And he was a bit generous with the rates. Cheapest day rate is 13c and night rate 7c both incl VAT, so a 2.2kW system would save you €180
and the above system would save you just €120 :rolleyes:

So a payback time of like 50 years :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why don't they just offer us meter netting? Or a half decent feed in tariff? Everybody wins there...

But I guess someone has to pay the ESB workers who earn over €100k per year on average...

This could be the start of a feed in tariff going forward.
ESB already have a feed in tarried with their business customers up north and at least one in the south (Kingspan I believe).

Will the SEAI pay you a grant for solar PV?
Is this cost above inclusive of the grant or before the grant if paid?

Solar water is looking more inviting now and tbh, of the 500ish new homes I'm inspecting in Dublin at the moment, less than 10 are using solar PV iirc.

unkel

Nah, no subsidy for solar PV

Got a €1,200 subsidy last year for solar hot water alright, which made the system cost reasonable enough and the payback time well under 10 years (never mind that I had to have some of the work done anyway, like a high insulation 360l stainless steel cylinder)

n97 mini

kceire wrote: »

Solar water is looking more inviting now and tbh, of the 500ish new homes I'm inspecting in Dublin at the moment, less than 10 are using solar PV iirc.

You might know. Carton Wood in Maynooth, currently being built. These panels look like PV to me? Every house has a set. The online sales blurb doesn't specify...

http://www.daft.ie/kildare/new-homes-for-sale/carton-wood-maynooth-kildare-69366/

(EDIT: I know it's not your area)

aliveandkicking

unkel wrote: »

Missed that you mentioned 1.5kW array. That's never going to average you €250 savings per year.

Recent post on the renewables forum from a regular poster who know his stuff:

"Hardware for a 2.2kw system . On a south facing roof, that would produce about 2,000 KwHrs per year.

If you use 1/3rd of this (and that would be very modest) to displace daytime power at 18c, and the other 2/3rds to heat water (saving night rate 9c) your average electricity saving is 12c. So you have payback of €240 per year"

And he was a bit generous with the rates. Cheapest day rate is 13c and night rate 7c both incl VAT, so a 2.2kW system would save you €180
and the above system would save you just €120 :rolleyes:

So a payback time of like 50 years :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why don't they just offer us meter netting? Or a half decent feed in tariff? Everybody wins there...

But I guess someone has to pay the ESB workers who earn over €100k per year on average...

The maths for this whole scheme are crazy. Electric Ireland had a pilot scheme before Christmas where they installed 1.5kW (6 panel) arrays on a select few customers houses and set them up with the app and a diverter to the immersion for the excess power. The pilot scheme had a "special offer" price of a little over €3000 (€80 a month for 3 years). I've been told that today's announcement is just the full rollout of the pilot scheme to all customers, except that the special offer pilot scheme price no longer applies, it is now a whopping €5000! Now it is possible that they may have increased the size of the array from the 1.5 kW pilot scheme but I was told it was the same.

ted1

Deregulation ruined FIT, electric Ireland but energy from SEMO like every other user. It should be SEMO/Eirgrid offering FIT. Using excess to heat water is th best option until the price of storage reduces

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

You might know. Carton Wood in Maynooth, currently being built. These panels look like PV to me? Every house has a set. The online sales blurb doesn't specify...

http://www.daft.ie/kildare/new-homes-for-sale/carton-wood-maynooth-kildare-69366/

(EDIT: I know it's not your area)

Yeah not my area so possibly PV.
Also, don't forget, we can get panel ps for solar water too which may look like PV.
They are less efficient than the tubes, so a typical 3 Sq. M tube system would require 6 Sq. M panel arrangement to get the same results.

BoatMad

The electric Ireland offering doesnt have a FIT , so its a terrible payback as you cant time shift the energy

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

Nah, no subsidy for solar PV

Got a €1,200 subsidy last year for solar hot water alright, which made the system cost reasonable enough and the payback time well under 10 years (never mind that I had to have some of the work done anyway, like a high insulation 360l stainless steel cylinder)

Currently looking into it for house renovations.
I'm extending and refurbing so the main roof will be off the house, perfect time to go solar.

Got a quote of 6200 minus grant so nett 5k for a 50 tube system with 300L SS cyclinder.

Also got a quote of 3600 minus grant so nett 2400 for a panel system with 300L SS cyclinder.

Decisions, budget dictates the flat panel, I'm not concerned that the survpface area will be greater.

unkel

I'm no expert but panel system looks like good value (how big total of the panels, I presume Chinese ones?), the other one not so much (probably Chinese tubes too?)

All depends on your household hot water use too I guess. We're a family of 5 (4 females) and we use a lot of hot water. We needed a high quality, high capacity system. If you're a smaller family, or no kids yet, I'd go for the cheaper system. You could always at some point add PV with dump to the cylinder - the PV panels are still getting cheaper too

But do get more advice, from other people who know more about these things

ted1

BoatMad wrote: »

The electric Ireland offering doesnt have a FIT , so its a terrible payback as you cant time shift the energy

Using the extra capacity to top up the hot water is not a bad compromise. I'm not a fan of FIT, as they tend to be higher than the spot price and basically other users end up paying extra to support FIT, what I would see as an alternative is balancing. If you export a kWh you get a kWh deducted from your bill

BoatMad

ted1 wrote: »

Using the extra capacity to top up the hot water is not a bad compromise. I'm not a fan of FIT, as they tend to be higher than the spot price and basically other users end up paying extra to support FIT, what I would see as an alternative is balancing. If you export a kWh you get a kWh deducted from your bill

Yes I would entirely agree, FIT should not be seen as a benefit , merely as you say a unit supplied is a unit saved .

The main thing is that SolarPV with a FIT should allow you to build credit for electricity supplied to the gird that can be repurchased at some other time .


Without it Solar PV is severely limited even with "powerwall" type solutions

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

I'm no expert but panel system looks like good value (how big total of the panels, I presume Chinese ones?), the other one not so much (probably Chinese tubes too?)

All depends on your household hot water use too I guess. We're a family of 5 (4 females) and we use a lot of hot water. We needed a high quality, high capacity system. If you're a smaller family, or no kids yet, I'd go for the cheaper system. You could always at some point add PV with dump to the cylinder - the PV panels are still getting cheaper too

But do get more advice, from other people who know more about these things

Trying to get impartial advice but from ringing around, every panel seems to be made in China, even the tubes from every manufacturer is made in China under Licence. Don't know how trubthat is though.

The panels will be about 6 Sq. M.

unkel

My setup is Kingspan (Irish made). High quality system, better quality and efficiency than the Chinese sourced parts, but not cheap. Google "Kingspan Thermomax". Similar price to your Chinese tube system quote though!!!

ted1

With regards efficiency, I think that's down the list if things you need to look for. If you have room on you room for 10m what difference does it make if you have 6m operating at 100% or 10m at 60%. I'd be focused on the output. How can I get 2Kwp
Efficiency generally adds cost

BoatMad

Based on costings thrown round at the show , I'd be very cautious about the payback of solar PV at present

Ps: fossil fuel based upgrades from the Seai will be phased out soon according to ministers speech

bleary

Any further info on Denis naughtens announcement yesterday? http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/homeowners-could-get-10-000-in-state-aid-for-green-retrofitting-1.3037930
Also why has this seai publicly funded event been aggressively and expensively advertised for example in regular newstalk ads but then restricted to trade only?

goz83

bleary wrote: »

Any further info on Denis naughtens announcement yesterday? http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/homeowners-could-get-10-000-in-state-aid-for-green-retrofitting-1.3037930
Also why has this seai publicly funded event been aggressively and expensively advertised for example in regular newstalk ads but then restricted to trade only?

I rang yesterday to ask if it was open to the public and sure enough, it was. I have an unrelated business and registered to attend, but I could have entered anything I wanted into the registration field. In hindsight, I should have entered something more amusing

Went along. Literally every second stand was something to do with heat pumps - what's up with that?

unkel

How was the spin kceire?

Some torque in the Tesla. It's like.... wow.

unkel

Which one did you drive? I bet it was no P100D in ludicrous mode though

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Which one did you drive? I bet it was no P100D in ludicrous mode though

90D I think.

slicedpanman

unkel wrote: »

My setup is Kingspan (Irish made). High quality system, better quality and efficiency than the Chinese sourced parts, but not cheap. Google "Kingspan Thermomax". Similar price to your Chinese tube system quote though!!!

got the exact same setup myself... reassured I made the right choice knowing that the budget conscious unkel picked them too

BoatMad

glasso wrote: »

Went along. Literally every second stand was something to do with heat pumps - what's up with that?

Snake oil salesman favourite of the mouth, used to be wood pellets , but they dumped those bottles and bought ones marked heat pump instead

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

My setup is Kingspan (Irish made). High quality system, better quality and efficiency than the Chinese sourced parts, but not cheap. Google "Kingspan Thermomax". Similar price to your Chinese tube system quote though!!!

Yeah im aware of the Kingspan system, ive spec'd it on many houses where I wasn't paying the bill. Where are the panels actually made though? I was under the impression that it was not Ireland.

unkel wrote: »

How was the spin kceire?

unkel wrote: »

Which one did you drive? I bet it was no P100D in ludicrous mode though

Tesla Model S P90d.
Unbelievable tbh
Had Calahonda in the back with me too

Its been some time since a car threw back into the seat with its acceleration.
And we were encouraged to push it!

Now, just to wait for depreciation to kick in and we can buy one. Seemly there's one P100d in Ireland and Bono owns it.

The car we drove was a 100k car seemly.

Gumbo

unkel

kceire wrote: »

Yeah im aware of the Kingspan system, ive spec'd it on many houses where I wasn't paying the bill. Where are the panels actually made though? I was under the impression that it was not Ireland.

Tubes, not panels. And yes, they are made in Ireland!

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Snake oil salesman favourite of the mouth, used to be wood pellets , but they dumped those bottles and bought ones marked heat pump instead

what's the supposed sell points then - I didn't bother enduring a spiel.

KCross

glasso wrote: »

Went along. Literally every second stand was something to do with heat pumps - what's up with that?

Anything that fits into "renewables" and domestic heating is going to be popular.

Its not new technology though. Its around for decades just relatively new to Ireland (maybe <15yrs?).

BoatMad wrote: »

Snake oil salesman favourite of the mouth, used to be wood pellets , but they dumped those bottles and bought ones marked heat pump instead

Thats a bit harsh

Heat Pumps have their place but obviously salesmen will over egg it and try to install it in every situation whether it makes sense or not, so snake oil from that perspective, but well worthwhile in a new build, imo.

glasso wrote: »

what's the supposed sell points then - I didn't bother enduring a spiel.

I suppose a few things....

- If you want underfloor heating and require a heat source (i.e. you dont have a passive house) then a heat pump is a good way to provide that heat and very cheap hot water.

- Its renewables based so its better for the environment.

- If you have mains gas available it might not make sense to go heat pump depending on your install costs.

Calahonda52

KCross wrote: »

- If you have mains gas available it might not make sense to go heat pump depending on your install costs.

There is a gas fired HP option, it won a prize I think at last year's version of this dog and pony show, will dig it out then I recover from KC's drive out the Stillorgan Road in the back of the Tesla:D

http://www.origen.ie/z/energy-show-2016/274

mike_2009

I loved the Tesla P90D - floored it on the way back! All I can say is Wow. First electric car I've driven, now I spoiled!!
Had a peek inside the Hyundai Ionic. 132 sold here and no more until November apparently....(Pure EV models, they'll have more Hybrids soon) Wierd that the battery is where the engine normally is, so not under the seats as in most other models. Didn't get to drive one unfortunately.
There was also a Delorean - Belfast students had converted it to fully electric with 78 batteries in the back. Does 100mph, the original v6 engine only got it to 70 or so!! They kept the original dash / inside cabin and gearbox, you can even push off in third! It had previously languished in a garage for 15 years so great job getting it all roadworthy again. All electrical students but they had to do shocks and other mechanical bits along with bodywork.
Interesting day!

unkel

mike_2009 wrote: »

Had a peek inside the Hyundai Ionic. 132 sold here and no more until November apparently....(Pure EV models, they'll have more Hybrids soon) Wierd that the battery is where the engine normally is, so not under the seats as in most other models.

Is that what they told you or did you just presume that?

It's not correct, the Ioniq EV battery is in the floor mainly under the rear seat area.