Who is enforcing rent controls?

....... · 03-04-2017 1:30pm #1

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Graham · 03-04-2017 1:33pm

RTB:

https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rent-pressure-zones

....... · 03-04-2017 1:55pm

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TimeToShine · 03-04-2017 1:58pm

If he isn't even registered with the RTB he clearly doesn't give an F about something like rent control. He probably collects in cash and doesn't pay tax either.

Graham · 03-04-2017 2:13pm

Could be a nice bonus for the new tenants if they discover the original rent.

....... · 03-04-2017 2:34pm

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Graham · 03-04-2017 2:39pm

It will be interesting to see what happens if a landlord in a RPZ submits a new tenancy to the RTB at an increased rent that contravenes the new legislation.

DubCount · 03-04-2017 2:40pm

I dont believe it can be enforced where there is a change of tenant. Even when registered with the RTB, the RTB database is unreliable, and they cant tell if there has/has not been a major refurbishment since the last letting.

The new tenant could take a case to the RTB if they have any proof of the last tenancy rates, but will any tenant want to have that fight with their landlord given how hard it is to get a place to rent at the moment.

I have yet to see one example of a property to rent on Daft that is either well below market rate (unless its a scam), or that shows a calculation of rent based on 4% increase over previous letting. Is every new letting advertised a first time let or a first let after a major refurbishment?

....... · 03-04-2017 2:44pm

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Graham · 03-04-2017 2:46pm

So guy who ignores legislation, ignores new legislation. It's d surprising but it's probably fair to say its not representative of most law-abiding landlords.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-04-2017 2:59pm

Of course it has to be reported, reported and people to go along as witnesses. If one's not willing to do that then there's little point complaining.

grogi · 03-04-2017 3:03pm

Does it even apply when a new rent starts? I think those regulations are there to protect existing tenants...

....... · 03-04-2017 3:03pm

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Samuel T. Cogley · 03-04-2017 3:05pm

It's likely enough. The LL can't turf them out and they get their rent reduced. The problem is with proving it, that requires the normal civil standard.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-04-2017 3:08pm

I'm not sure too much of a to do will be made about these controls though. They are possibly unconstitutional if forcing a LL to rent below market rate. If they stay beyond the three years or if the RTB start getting heavy handed I expect them to go frankly.

03-04-2017 3:33pm

Its very unlikely they will find out, in fact its almost impossible unless the old/new tenants cross paths or know each other (unlikely) or someone reports the LL (again very unlikely, people aren't in the habit of reporting things like this as it usually comes back to bite them and that's if they even know what the rent is/was).

Also the LL can turf them out in the first 6 months remember.

My guess would be that a very small percentage of new lettings are paying any heed at all to the new rules. Also a lot of current tenants don't even know about the rules so there are plenty of tenants accepting rent increases above the new rules (above 4% and less than 2 years since last review) as they simply don't know any different.

....... · 03-04-2017 3:43pm

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I love Sean nos · 03-04-2017 3:45pm

Are you still in touch with the old tenants?
If you are, find out how they paid the rent? There's your proof of the old rent.
Not registering with the RTB does not excuse the landlord or the tenants from the regulations. The new tenants are still protected. In fact, there should be a fine coming his way for not registering the tenancy.
If the new tenants have signed a lease, tell them the old rent and provide the accompanying evidence received from the old tenants.
New tenants raise complaint with RTB. Lease prevents any action from the landlord.

....... · 03-04-2017 3:51pm

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03-04-2017 4:00pm

Why would the op involve himself in this? I certainly wouldn't especially if I knew the LL.

I love Sean nos · 03-04-2017 4:55pm

I understand. But someone has to tell someone in order for it to be enforced. I can't think of a inexpensive way of doing that.

Landlord has to register the rent with each new tenancy as part of the RTB registration? He hasn't registered yet. No guarantee that the RTB will put 2 + 2 together. Maybe this is already part of the registration requirement, but it's not working.
Tenant registers the rent with the RTB at the beginning of the tenancy? This might work as it's in their own best interest.
Some sort of link between the RTB and Revenue? But if the landlord is working in cash only, it mightn't work.

Graham · 03-04-2017 5:04pm

If a landlord was ignoring their legal obligations before, additional obligations are unlikely to have changed that. That doesn't mean there aren't many hundreds/thousands now benefitting from the new legislation.

I've seen no evidence that there's large scale side-stepping of the RPZ limits.

I love Sean nos · 03-04-2017 5:07pm

I don't know. Maybe because he opened the thread in the first place.

Browney7 · 03-04-2017 5:18pm

I read a doc from Sherry Fitz recently stating that at the outset of the tenancy the landlord has to state how they have calculated the rent or else justification for it - rent is €x as it hasn't been rented before or rent was €x and is now €x +4%.

Doubtful this is being done now and any prospective tenant will meet a prompt "next!" From the LL.

Nothing to stop a tenant after 18 months putting in a speculative complaint to the RTB that they believe they were charged a rent that was illegal and see how they get on. People here rave that the RTB is obscenely pro tenant so no reason why they'll buck the formbook here either.

I've seen a few properties advertised with a rent of €1040 or €1144 but they're in the minority

questionmark? · 03-04-2017 5:34pm

Nox I would go a lot further and say that there are plenty of tenants who DO know about the new rules but are still accepting rent increases above because they dont want to lose their home and its virtually impossible to get a new place to rent.

I know 2 people in my office have accepted rent increases beyond the rules in recent weeks because they simply cant afford to move.[/quote]

But they wouldn't have to move surely? If you are in a part 4 tenancy and the LL asks to increase the rent by more than 4% you can quite simply refuse and the Landlord will not be able to evict on what would be an illegal attempt to increase the rent.

ED E · 03-04-2017 5:48pm

Been saying this since they announced it. RPZs will protect in situ tenants, wont do a bit of good for any new tenants.

Need a robust registry of tenancies with accurate data to bridge the gulf between exiting and entering tenants.

03-04-2017 5:59pm

The LL can say they are selling or want to move in and then rerent at a higher rent. Now of course this could very well come back to bite the LL but it still means the tenant has to move as they can't refuse a termination for selling/moving in etc.

davindub · 03-04-2017 8:19pm

Some people will break the rules and aren't bothered about 2k fines and a criminal conviction.

You are right we do need a better system, one might be to get all tenants to register with the PRTB for a tax credit (where have we seen this before?).

questionmark? · 03-04-2017 8:53pm

If a tenant refused a rent increase under the new rules and got a notice to leave as they were selling the landlord would be asking for trouble from a tenant who already knows the rules.

Samuel T. Cogley · 04-04-2017 7:48am

Then they spot the place for rent again and make a case at the RTB using nothing more than a lease and a couple of screenshots and get thousands in damages.

Not a smart strategy tbh.

....... · 04-04-2017 8:37am

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04-04-2017 9:09am

They will have to move though and if they really don't want to move then the above isn't an option. They also have to want to go to the effort if pursuing the LL and the LL may try to rent it on the quiet rather than on daft etc so they may not know it's been rerented.

Yourself isit · 04-04-2017 9:15am

They can still shop the landlord to the PRTB.

04-04-2017 9:18am

Are you missing the part about not wanting to have to move?

....... · 04-04-2017 9:25am

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Graham · 04-04-2017 9:29am

I don't get some posters fascination with skirting around residential tenancies legislation or assuming that most landlords are trying to do the same.

While there are undoubtedly some unscrupulous landlords around, it's fair to say they are not the norm. In the vast majority of cases a landlord may be unhappy about the legislation, he/she may even have a bit of a moan about it. For the most part they will then go on to act in accordance with the law.

gizmo81 · 04-04-2017 9:37am

Drop an email to enforcement@rtb.ie

....... · 04-04-2017 10:12am

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Tombo2001 · 04-04-2017 10:21am

Landlords are quite rightly sensitive about the fact that they are constantly being scapegoated for the state of the rental market, for being greedy and exploitative.

From this derives conversations such as this; who is stopping those (greedy and exploitative) landlords from breaching the 4%.

I'll say the following twice, so that I'm double clear.

- I'm not saying that you have called landlords greedy or exploitative.

- I'm definitely not saying that you have called landlords greedy or exploitative.

And you are perfectly entitled to ask who is enforcing the 4% rental hike.

However there is always that undercurrent when a conversation such as this takes place. Who is keeping all those greedy landlords in check.

Landlords are no more responsible for current rent hikes than tenants were responsible when rents fell by 40% between 2007 and 2012.

....... · 04-04-2017 10:38am

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Tombo2001 · 04-04-2017 10:41am

It exists throughout the general discourse on rental inflation; if you want specific examples then read some articles on the indo website, and the comments section.

As a matter of interest, how would you expect it to be enforced?

....... · 04-04-2017 10:47am

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4ensic15 · 04-04-2017 7:13pm

The RTB claim to have had over a hundred complaints and a large proportion of them were upheld.

68 lost souls · 05-04-2017 11:44am

OP I think you should report it yourself, there is a duty of responsibility as a citizen for you if you see something in the wrong to report it.

....... · 05-04-2017 12:25pm

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68 lost souls · 05-04-2017 12:54pm

They don't need to know it was you. And if you say you know the previous tenants and how much they were paying its not hearsay. People need to standup if things are going to change

....... · 05-04-2017 12:59pm

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Who is enforcing rent controls?

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