More speed ramps for Dublin 15

daymobrew

Fingal County Council have opened public consultations for 3 new sets of speed ramps in Dublin 15.

• Castleknock Rise (Laurel Lodge)
• Hartstown Distributor Road
• Ratoath Road, Hollystown

ThisRegard

The traditional signs, electronic speed sign, residential area and narrow footpaths aren't enough to slow a hell of a lot of people down on the Ratoath Road then the stick of speed ramps is needed.

dodzy

The distributor road. FFS:mad: It was only a matter of time looking at the amount of gob****e drivers that use it as a runway.

daymobrew

dodzy wrote: »

The distributor road. FFS:mad: It was only a matter of time looking at the amount of gob****e drivers that use it as a runway.

I like that they put traffic islands between the cycle lane and road - I suggested this for Diswellstown Road where drivers will race you to to the centre island to cut you off.

Gavin "shels"

That'd be the whole of Hartstown Road up the shopping centre roundabout?

rockatansky

They should add them to the Ongar Distribution road, Clonsilla Road, and to the entire length of the R121 and R483, and speed cameras aswell. By far one of the worst points about Blanchardstown is the driving by some of the individuals who use the road on a daily basis.

Bus lane?? Apparently they don't apply to you if you're a scrote driving a blacked out Bora or Audi, or a parent dropping your kids off at the Coolmine community school. And there's plenty of both.

The more speed ramps the better!

Larbre34

rockatansky wrote: »

The more speed ramps the better!

No. Not at all. Scrote drivers will be scrote drivers ramps or no ramps. Ask an ambulance controller or a carer for a person with a chronic orthopaedic condition what they think of them?

Ramps are every bit as much a menace as reckless drivers.

Zaph

rockatansky wrote: »

They should add them to the Ongar Distribution road

What??? They should be increasing the limit on that road to 80km/h, 60 is just a joke on it.

rockatansky

Zaph wrote: »

What??? They should be increasing the limit on that road to 80km/h, 60 is just a joke on it.

If you raise it to 80, then doing 100 becomes the norm for the drivers that I've mentioned in the previous post. Considering the amount of people who walk/run in the evening time, plus the cycle lane and also the fact that many housing estates back out onto it, bringing it up to 80 should never be considered.

Also there's too many stops too close together to bring it to that speed.

rockatansky

Larbre34 wrote: »

Ramps are every bit as much a menace as reckless drivers.

So if I look back on the stats, will the same amount of deaths be contributed to speed ramps as to reckless driving?

Larbre34

rockatansky wrote: »

So if I look back on the stats, will the same amount of deaths be contributed to speed ramps as to reckless driving?

Of course not. Thats not my point. Ramps cause physical pain to some and car damage to many cos they are rarely built to design spec and never ever maintained.

Its like the controversial 30 kph limit in Dublin City. The media chatter has been around attributing it to "Jake's Legacy" after the campaign run by the family of the boy killed on the road outside his home in Kilkenny. Now I cant imagine what a horrific and painful loss that was for his family and community, but the reality is, there are upwards of 1.5 billion vehicle journeys in Ireland every year and how many kids are lost each year in those circumstances? Perhaps 2 or 3? You can never legislate for freak accidents, and punishing the majority with catch-penny speed limits or abrasive ramps is not the answer. Hard cases make bad law.

daymobrew

rockatansky wrote: »

The more speed ramps the better!

Please no! IMO they only affect the people that car about road safety and those that really care about their car. Many others will continue as if they weren't there.

Now, speed cameras *would* make a difference. A few penalty points and 80 euro fines will change behaviour. Get a few more fines/points and your insurance premium will be impacted.

murphyebass

The bull**** that is speed ramps just reeks of PC brigade and politicians getting a photo op to appease said brigade.

This doesn't change behaviours of the ones who need to be changed and are right pain in all the rest of our holes in the interim.

they zebra crossing'd a few ramps around Clonee and had to dezebra them because people couldn't understand when to stop when to start, caused crashes. Hilarious.

Driver education would be a FAR better use of public funds.

It's like when it snows nobody drives to the conditions. Just too slow or too fast.

Anyway no more ****ing speed ramps!!!

/rant

ThisRegard

No amount of driver training will stop some people speeding on what they see is a long straight stretch of road, no matter how many potential dangers are around it. It's a last resort, and the only people to be blamed are those drivers.

I've no idea why you think it's anything to do with political correctness.

murphyebass

ThisRegard wrote: »

No amount of driver training will stop some people speeding on what they see is a long straight stretch of road, no matter how many potential dangers are around it. It's a last resort, and the only people to be blamed are those drivers.

I've no idea why you think it's anything to do with political correctness.

No amount of speed bumps will solve it.

As for being PC, of course it is. Politicians love this ****. Oh won't someone please think of the children.

Nobody wants to call it like it is. Well here it is, parents mind your ****ing children!! Don't let them play on roads and street corners and guess what, they won't be run down no matter how stupidly fast some asshole is going.

... Oh no he didn't. Snap snap. Mmm hmm.

ThisRegard

You do understand that such traffic calming measures are usually the result of local residents lobbying for the same, and are not driven by politicians don't you?

But your post is just plain dumb anyway, none of the roads that this thread is concerned about have kids playing around them. You're the only person mentioning kids, and a pathetic attempt at victim blaming too.

Phil.x

All people can do is lodge an appeal and contact their local money taking TDs. This is what your property tax gets you.

Former Former

Haven't there been a load of fatal crashes on that Hartstown Road?

daymobrew

ThisRegard wrote: »

No amount of driver training will stop some people speeding on what they see is a long straight stretch of road, no matter how many potential dangers are around it. It's a last resort, and the only people to be blamed are those drivers.

As you said, ramps are installed at the request of residents, it is not a "last resort" - nothing else is ever tried.
In Sycamore Avenue they put in a speed camera and a 30 km/h limit. Then they put in ramps. If they closed off the road in the middle it would have completely eliminated the rat run.

I would love to see enforcement. It would pay for itself.
When I lived in California people actually stopped at Stop signs because they knew that there was a chance that a cop was watching, even if the chance was very low. Here the chance is zero so "when the cat's away..."

ThisRegard

daymobrew wrote: »

As you said, ramps are installed at the request of residents, it is not a "last resort" - nothing else is ever tried.

Digital speedos at entrance to zones, no shortage of static signs, occasional Garda speed traps (no doubt labelled as shooting fish in a barrel by some here).

So yeah, ramps are next up after years and years of such measures that some idiots still ignore.

daymobrew

ThisRegard wrote: »

Digital speedos at entrance to zones, no shortage of static signs, occasional Garda speed traps (no doubt labelled as shooting fish in a barrel by some here).

So yeah, ramps are next up after years and years of such measures that some idiots still ignore.

Ok. I just had never seen digital speedos, static signs or Gardai on Castleknock Rise.

Even idiots cannot ignore money being removed from their pockets. Money changes behaviour.

ThisRegard

The Ratoath road has all those. I drive it daily and often cycle it.

You'll be tailgated pretty much every day within the 50 zone and only this weekend I had someone overtake over the solid white line coming to the golf club and petrol station entrances without a clear view, craning their dopey neck to look at me as if I've the problem. They had a baby in the back. What a moron.

It's a straight sterech of road and assholes don't want to slow down for what's probably around a 1k stretch, it's less than a minute, probably 30 seconds, before you're back in a 80 zone in either direction.

rockatansky

In most cases the speed ramps installed are a total waste of time and money. They are either just 3 bumps that people just drive through the middle of without reducing speed, or the types that are at such a low angle you simply glide over them , again without any need to reduce speed. An example of these is on the road that runs from clonsilla train station, past St Josephs Centre and on up to the Allendale roundabout. I think there are 3 speed bumps on them, no one ever reduces speed on them, just straight over them. A total waste.

A good example of proper speed ramps is the road between Wheatfield prison and Park west. They are at such a height that you have no choice but to reduce speed. A very effective traffic calming measure that I would gladly see implemented throughout the greater blanchardstown area.

Phil.x

rockatansky wrote: »

In most cases the speed ramps installed are a total waste of time and money. They are either just 3 bumps that people just drive through the middle of without reducing speed, or the types that are at such a low angle you simply glide over them , again without any need to reduce speed. An example of these is on the road that runs from clonsilla train station, past St Josephs Centre and on up to the Allendale roundabout. I think there are 3 speed bumps on them, no one ever reduces speed on them, just straight over them. A total waste.

A good example of proper speed ramps is the road between Wheatfield prison and Park west. They are at such a height that you have no choice but to reduce speed. A very effective traffic calming measure that I would gladly see implemented throughout the greater blanchardstown area.

I slow down over those ramps in clonsilla, my cars suspension is stiff at best.

beauf

The driving around D.15 is terrible. Theres no enforcement. There used to be some about 10yrs ago but its none existent now.

VeVeX

ThisRegard wrote: »

The Ratoath road has all those. I drive it daily and often cycle it.

You'll be tailgated pretty much every day within the 50 zone and only this weekend I had someone overtake over the solid white line coming to the golf club and petrol station entrances without a clear view, craning their dopey neck to look at me as if I've the problem. They had a baby in the back. What a moron.

It's a straight sterech of road and assholes don't want to slow down for what's probably around a 1k stretch, it's less than a minute, probably 30 seconds, before you're back in a 80 zone in either direction.

The problem with that stretch road is the speed limit is too low. It should be set to 60 kmph. At 60 there would be less unnecessary overtaking and speeding. When limits are set too low and there's virtually zero chances of being caught there is a mentality that you might as well be in for a pound as in for a penny. It's definitely the case on that road.

ThisRegard

It's not too low, plenty of entrances on it, residential area, footpath right alongside it in sections and only a short section. With some of the entrances onto the Ratoath road on that stretch you don't get too far a view to see what's coming either.

People will speed regardless of the limit, they're not thinking if only the limit here was an additional 10kph then I wouldn't feel the new to overtake at 80+ across a solid white line to get to the real 80 zone a couple of metres up there maybe 10 seconds quicker.

VeVeX

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's not too low, plenty of entrances on it, residential area, footpath right alongside it in sections and only a short section. With some of the entrances onto the Ratoath road on that stretch you don't get too far a view to see what's coming either.

People will speed regardless of the limit, they're not thinking if only the limit here was an additional 10kph then I wouldn't feel the new to overtake at 80+ across a solid white line to get to the real 80 zone a couple of metres up there maybe 10 seconds quicker.

In reality the majority of traffic on that road is exceeding the speed limit. Its proven that unreasonably low limits increase the rate of disobedience and also increase the risk to those attempting to comply with the limit. It’s also proven that lowering speed limits does not automatically lower vehicle speed. If the limit is set to a realistic rate disobedience drops. Ideally from a road safety perspective all traffic will be traveling at the same speed, its just never going to happen on that road at 50kmph.

beauf

Why is it unreasonable limit. because the road is unsuited, because of entrances or because no one will stick to it.

Skatedude

Just reeks of incompetence and laziness by the government.

People are either speeding or driving dangerously, So punish those who do so.

Irish government, "er, can't be bothered so lets just punish everybody instead."

beauf

I dunno why we don't have fixed speeding cameras. Seems like it would fix this problem.

Former Former

Skatedude wrote: »

Just reeks of incompetence and laziness by the government.

People are either speeding or driving dangerously, So punish those who do so.

Irish government, "er, can't be bothered so lets just punish everybody instead."

Eh? Who is it punishing?

I'd also point out that the Irish government has nothing to do with speed ramps in Hartstown, but I don't think it would make any difference

VeVeX

beauf wrote: »

Why is it unreasonable limit. because the road is unsuited, because of entrances or because no one will stick to it.

The road is absolutely suited to a higher limit than 50kmph. There was a higher limit on it not so long ago. If I remember correctly the national speed limit was in place from Dollys to Kilbride and 80% of the entrances that seem to be an issue were present then. Its a straight road after the filling station with excellent visibility in all directions including the entrances.

Does this speed look safe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwmWXXX3c34

rockatansky

VeVeX wrote: »

The road is absolutely suited to a higher limit than 50kmph. There was a higher limit on it not so long ago. If I remember correctly the national speed limit was in place from Dollys to Kilbride and 80% of the entrances that seem to be an issue were present then. Its a straight road after the filling station with excellent visibility in all directions including the entrances.

This is typical of the attitude the seems to be prevalent around the greater blanch area. Just make it faster, sure why not.

Its a straight road that both cars a buses share, no separate bus lane, A cycle lane, numerous bus stops. Oh and the little matter of a school on one side.

VeVeX

rockatansky wrote: »

This is typical of the attitude the seems to be prevalent around the greater blanch area. Just make it faster, sure why not.

Its a straight road that both cars a buses share, no separate bus lane, A cycle lane, numerous bus stops. Oh and the little matter of a school on one side.

We're not taking about the same road FYI.

ThisRegard

Skatedude wrote: »

Just reeks of incompetence and laziness by the government.

People are either speeding or driving dangerously, So punish those who do so.

Irish government, "er, can't be bothered so lets just punish everybody instead."

I don't think you know how government works.

ThisRegard

VeVeX wrote: »

The road is absolutely suited to a higher limit than 50kmph. There was a higher limit on it not so long ago. If I remember correctly the national speed limit was in place from Dollys to Kilbride and 80% of the entrances that seem to be an issue were present then. Its a straight road after the filling station with excellent visibility in all directions including the entrances.

Does this speed look safe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwmWXXX3c34

1 minute is what you're having a stroke about.

VeVeX

ThisRegard wrote: »

1 minute is what you're having a stroke about.

Well done, that's quite the opposite of an intelligent retort.

beauf

VeVeX wrote: »

...
Does this speed look safe?

For me no. Even a 100% alert driver would not be able to react to something unexpected coming off the path or out of those entrances as there isn't enough between them and the main road. Then consider the limit should be set for the lowest common denominator driver skill level. Also that people tend to go 5~10% over the limit.

ThisRegard

VeVeX wrote: »

Well done, that's quite the opposite of an intelligent retort.

It's not actually. You're whinging about the limit there, a fact that I previously pointed out is for only a very short section of road with many entrances and pedestrians put right beside the road.

You then provided the video evidence to prove my point, it took you a minute to drive through it so any difference in speed limits is only going to save you a few seconds.

You have the typical, unfortunately, attitude of many who drive that feel you should have priority over every one else just because you're in a car.

beauf

Its like when you get off a 120 motorway onto a 80 road, you feel like you are crawling. Its because you've been de-sensitized to the speed.

If you build a very wide road you have the same effect, it makes it feel like you travelling slower. Which is why road design in residential areas, especially with straight main roads in estates encourage speeding.

Chicago’s Department of Transportation had success with another simple illusion on a notorious hot-spot for crashes, a bend at Oak Street on Lake Shore Drive. City officials tried nearly everything: making lane markings clearer, putting up bigger warning signs, flashing lights at the side of the road. All in vain; drivers just kept crashing.
In the end the department painted white lines across the road – each line closer to the next as cars got nearer the curve. This perception of shrinking distances makes drivers think that they’re going faster than they really are. According to a study there were 36% fewer crashes in the six months after the lines were painted in September 2006 compared to the same six-month period the year before. Hansen believes this is one of the best psychological tricks to reduce speeding.

In general though we are used to bigger roads, bigger safer cars and almost lack of enforcement, meaning we have all got used to travelling faster as the norm.

VeVeX

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's not actually. You're whinging about the limit there, a fact that I previously pointed out is for only a very short section of road with many entrances and pedestrians put right beside the road.

You then provided the video evidence to prove my point, it took you a minute to drive through it so any difference in speed limits is only going to save you a few seconds.

You have the typical, unfortunately, attitude of many who drive that feel you should have priority over every one else just because you're in a car.

I actually don't have any problem with the speed limit personally. My point from the outset was the low speed limit is what is causing the bad driving on the road. Some comply the majority don't. It makes the road dangerous for everybody. If you took the time to read my posts rather than making imbecilic comments regarding strokes and whinging you'd probably have realised that. You probably can't let that kind of thing in the way of you post count however.

ThisRegard

You got me, it's my post count that comes first and foremost. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to further increase it by 1.

beauf

VeVeX wrote: »

I...Some comply the majority don't. It makes the road dangerous for everybody. ...

That suggests the limit is appropriate.

VeVeX

beauf wrote: »

That suggests the limit is appropriate.

The almost complete disregard of the limit makes it appropriate

ThisRegard

It just means some motorists are completely ignorant and need the means of a stick to sort them out.

Many teenagers ignore the fact they shouldn't consume alcohol until they're 18. Do you think the limit should be reduced to 11 or 12 too since the current one is ignored by many?

beauf

That people disregard it doesn't mean its not appropriate. It means it should be enforced.

I wonder are you are thinking that raising the speed limit will make it less dangerous for drivers on the road, and they won't be done for speeding.

But forgetting that its increasing the speed and thus the danger for people join that road and non car road users. Which is the point (and the appropriateness) of the speed limit in the first place.

VeVeX

ThisRegard wrote: »

It just means some motorists are completely ignorant and need the means of a stick to sort them out.

Many teenagers ignore the fact they shouldn't consume alcohol until they're 18. Do you think the limit should be reduced to 11 or 12 too since the current one is ignored by many?

Have a read of this, its based around facts rather than childish analogies - https://priceonomics.com/is-every-speed-limit-too-low/

beauf

I could be mistaken, but that report has no reference to non car users and uses stats from highways and non highways interchangeably.
Probably because its such a car dominated focus. its effectively about car vs car accidents on the same road.

ThisRegard

VeVeX wrote: »

rather than childish analogies

You don't do irony do you.

Simple fact if that it's a reasonable limit for the relatively small stretch, the number of entrances on to it, the closeness of the footpath, the inability to see clearly up the road at some points, and it's an absolutely​ dumb to blame anyone but those behind the wheel for speeding.

Zaph

OK folks, play nicely and enough of the personal digs please