money in farming

connolly18

I was wondering how many acres of land and how many cattle and sheep would u need to make a living off farming.

Timmaay

Too many

connolly18

Timmaay wrote: »

Too many

in ur opinion how many

The part time boy

connolly18 wrote: »

I was wondering how many acres of land and how many cattle and sheep would u need to make a living off farming.

How long is a piece of string.

As in full time and as in paying a morrage and support a family

Also depends on borrowings

So many variables

freedominacup

connolly18 wrote: »

I was wondering how many acres of land and how many cattle and sheep would u need to make a living off farming.

If you are a bad operator on poor land 500 acres wouldn't provide you with a living. On the flipside a top operator in dairying with low borrowings on good land would do well on 100 acres. There might not be much of a future in it in terms of room for the next generation to get a living from the 100 acres but one family would have a decent standard of living.

kay 9

Relative has a pub/restaurant and a substantial farm.
He reckons the old phrase "a yard of a counter is as good 200 acres" plays true. Bare in mind he has a good few yards.

davidk1394

connolly18 wrote: »

I was wondering how many acres of land and how many cattle and sheep would u need to make a living off farming.

Your wasting your time trying to make a living with drystock unfortunately. Unless you have scale all the work is for nothing

alps

connolly18 wrote: »

I was wondering how many acres of land and how many cattle and sheep would u need to make a living off farming.

Firstly, how much do you want to earn to be making a living?

_Brian

alps wrote: »

Firstly, how much do you want to earn to be making a living?

This !!

Start at the end and work backwards.

rangler1

connolly18 wrote: »

I was wondering how many acres of land and how many cattle and sheep would u need to make a living off farming.

Here's a link to teagasc report on net profit/ha for drystock, if you use the average net profit figures and divide it into the income you're expecting you can answer your own question

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2016/eProfit-Book.pdf

_Brian

rangler1 wrote: »

Here's a link to teagasc report on net profit/ha for drystock, if you use the average net profit figures and divide it into the income you're expecting you can answer your own question

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2016/eProfit-Book.pdf

Great place to start !

susign

connolly18 wrote:

I was wondering how many acres of land and how many cattle and sheep would u need to make a living off farming.

I'm not being smart but that's like asking how big does a business need to be to make a living. There are many types of farming and there a many types of farmers varying from hard working shrewd business people to lazy wasters or even over-spenders keeping up with the Jonse's. The most simple way to answer your question is you need an awful lot of funding to start up (stock, feed, fertiliser, housing, machinery/contractors not to mention fencing or reseeding the crap grass to new good quality grass) and if you are not cut out for running a tough, tight margin business accompanied by long hours and huge risk then no amount of land will save you from loosing everything. You need to know which investments will pay off and save you money and which ones to steer clear from. Prices for all farm produce fluctuates yearly depending on world supply. Now i'm getting depressed

king_of_inismac

I love farming but couldn't do it for a living.

My view is if you're smart enough to run a farm well and at a profit, you'd make more money working off farm.

I too my hat to those who do manage to do it. It's a tough business.

SuperTortoise

connolly18 wrote: »

I was wondering how many acres of land and how many cattle and sheep would u need to make a living off farming.

There are far, FAR easier ways to make a living than from farming.
It's the love of it that keeps most of the farmers going i think.

susign

king_of_inismac wrote:

My view is if you're smart enough to run a farm well and at a profit, you'd make more money working off farm.

I agree, I would strongly advise young people intending to farm to stick with education or get a trade that they will enjoy doing and that can be used as a possible second/part time income when the going gets though. Welding or industrial electrician might be one of many examples where you can take on small jobs here and there. Jobs like that could help with financing new farm investments such as sheds etc

Cavanjack

susign wrote: »

I agree, I would strongly advise young people intending to farm to stick with education or get a trade that they will enjoy doing and that can be used as a possible second/part time income when the going gets though. Welding or industrial electrician might be one of many examples where you can take on small jobs here and there. Jobs like that could help with financing new farm investments such as sheds etc

I wouldn't encourage anyone to invest money they have made off farm on the farm. The farm should be able to pay for its own investment's.

Grueller

Cavanjack wrote: »

I wouldn't encourage anyone to invest money they have made off farm on the farm. The farm should be able to pay for its own investment's.

Just about to type it.

susign

Grueller wrote:

Just about to type it.

It's the initial set up I am referring to. Yes, I do agree if farm can't pay the finance for investments dont invest in farm. However, normal business start ups need investment. You can finance it from.money you have already earned if it is there to be invested, cheaper than a lone from your bank.

Sam Kade

With farming you have to spend thousands to make hundreds.

Who2

Sam Kade wrote: »

With farming you have to spend thousands to make hundreds.

Spend thousands to make pennies, but still none of us will quit it.

susign

Who2 wrote:

Spend thousands to make pennies, but still none of us will quit it.

I hear of more failing manufacturing and catering business every year than farmers. Margins are tight but we'll survive. Bit of work on the side and stay away from overspending on machinery or sheds you don't need and you're sorted

Sam Kade

susign wrote: »

I hear of more failing manufacturing and catering business every year than farmers. Margins are tight but we'll survive. Bit of work on the side and stay away from overspending on machinery or sheds you don't need and you're sorted

Rules and regulations make you spend plenty money on sheds you don't need.

Madisonmenece

Majority of threads regarding the subject of entrant into farming or employment in farming regardless of discipline seem to receive a relatively negative response.

Is the future of farming in Ireland that bad that most would be better off in anyother role with dry cattle more or less as a hobby?

susign

Madisonmenece wrote:

Is the future of farming in Ireland that bad that most would be better off in anyother role with dry cattle more or less as a hobby?

Madisonmenece wrote:

Majority of threads regarding the subject of entrant into farming or employment in farming regardless of discipline seem to receive a relatively negative response.

Exactly my way of thinking, thank you. farming is a business. Name one business that doesn't require long hours of hard work and high risk. There's no handy success out there, you need to work for it. If farm is not big enough just take on extra work here and there. For example, fencing contracting, building sheds and so on. I advise young farmers to get a trade to fall back on if they want to remain self employed and manage your own hours to suit the farm.

Pidae.m

It's not about what you earn, it's about what you spend. Look at Micheal Jackson he live like a billionaire but earned like a millionaire.

The part time boy

Pidae.m wrote: »

It's not about what you earn, it's about what you spend. Look at Micheal Jackson he live like a billionaire but earned like a millionaire.

He went broke in the end. Not a great example

fepper

The part time boy wrote: »

He went broke in the end. Not a great example

Read it again,its a great example...

Who2

The part time boy wrote: »

He went broke in the end. Not a great example

A great example , when you consider he didn't need to put it in a trailer behind the hearse either.

theaceofspies

Who2 wrote: »

A great example , when you consider he didn't need to put it in a trailer behind the hearse either.

Rich mans grave or poor mans grave. Not a lot of difference between either of them to the end user.

fepper

theaceofspies wrote: »

Rich mans grave or poor mans grave. Not a lot of difference between either of them to the end user.

And Sometimes the biggest and gawdiest headstones are put there by our ethnic friends (being PC here)where money is not a problem...

stantheman1979

To the city dwellers were all millionaires getting free money from Europe. My sister in law gasps when she hears the tractor was 60 grand and that each cow and calf is worth €1800!! The reply is usually you've a hundred of those if it was me I'd sell up. They don't realise the cost to rear a calf or a lamb and the hard work that goes into it. Margins are tight even if the infrastructure of the farm is good. Not a lot in it but I wouldn't dream of doing anything else.

The part time boy

Don't think his a good example of a life well lived. It's actally sad for a persom that had so much talent . Things seemed to go down hill in 1984 when he had the fire incident.

You could agrue that going broke killed him . He had no interest in doing concerts again untill he went broke and he needed the money . The pressure of it must have lead to increased drug use

whelan2

fepper wrote: »

And Sometimes the biggest and gawdiest headstones are put there by our ethnic friends (being PC here)where money is not a problem...

Parents went to a funeral down the country recently. They couldn't get over the gravestones for the travellers. Like filmstars they said

Username John

fepper wrote: »

And Sometimes the biggest and gawdiest headstones are put there by our ethnic friends (being PC here)where money is not a problem...

I dunno... I know some people wouldn't like em, but sure so what... tisnt as if the next door neighbours are going to object

Actually, I know in a town close to me, they put in a new bit on the graveyard... it was to be small headstones... a line of small headstones, and then only grass... like you see in the war memorial graves in France or the like... it was really nice...
But some old people (not travellers) thought it was terrible... sure you couldn't bury someone under grass... they would need a marble surround over em, with small pebbles... sure how they rest in peace without em...

So now it's a mish-mash of grass, and marble and pebbles... which is a pity...

But then, if people get some peace from spending money on graves, let em off... tisnt as if tis doing any harm to anyone...

whelan2

Ah there has to be a limit though. Was there something about needing planning permission for some of the headstones?

Username John

whelan2 wrote: »

Ah there has to be a limit though. Was there something about needing planning permission for some of the headstones?

I don't know about the planning...

It's a very subjective thing... I'd be as happy buried in a field, with a map at the front gate saying where everyone is and no one gets to have headstone... but some people would object to that...

But I am not a believer in going to graves tho. I think once you're in the ground, that's it, no point in visiting compost...
But some people are big into going to graves, and sitting chatting and all that...

EDIT : actually, why waste ground with graves... Why not burn everyone and have their ashes scattered, or kept on your mantelpiece if you want... no need for graveyards, no problems with headstones... job done

fepper

Username John wrote: »

I dunno... I know some people wouldn't like em, but sure so what... tisnt as if the next door neighbours are going to object

Actually, I know in a town close to me, they put in a new bit on the graveyard... it was to be small headstones... a line of small headstones, and then only grass... like you see in the war memorial graves in France or the like... it was really nice...
But some old people (not travellers) thought it was terrible... sure you couldn't bury someone under grass... they would need a marble surround over em, with small pebbles... sure how they rest in peace without em...

So now it's a mish-mash of grass, and marble and pebbles... which is a pity...

But then, if people get some peace from spending money on graves, let em off... tisnt as if tis doing any harm to anyone...

it like those bigmac mansions you'd see popping up all over this country that just don't fit in to the surrounding countryside and sometimes less is better..

Username John

fepper wrote: »

it like those bigmac mansions you'd see popping up all over this country that just don't fit in to the surrounding countryside and sometimes less is better..

I agree - less can often be better...

But it seems it can't be lesser than marble surround and pebbles

So you give out about too big headstones, because they are different... but when everyone was asked to go to smaller headstones, that was not acceptable either...

So it would seem less is better for some people, but if everyone is asked to do less, that's not acceptable

susign

theaceofspies wrote:

Rich mans grave or poor mans grave. Not a lot of difference between either of them to the end user.

No but it does impact the family of the end user left behind, would rather strive to leave a viable farm to my kids than a field of tistles and up to the neck in bad debt

fepper

Username John wrote: »

I agree - less can often be better...

But it seems it can't be lesser than marble surround and pebbles

So you give out about too big headstones, because they are different... but when everyone was asked to go to smaller headstones, that was not acceptable either...

So it would seem less is better for some people, but if everyone is asked to do less, that's not acceptable

At least the marble surround and stone is at ground level but some graves would have high statues as well as headstones,it's like you'd be in the Vatican...

mf240

Think you can get a grant for a nice headstone and coffin of your in reps four.

susign

stantheman1979 wrote:

To the city dwellers were all millionaires getting free money from Europe. My sister in law gasps when she hears the tractor was 60 grand and that each cow and calf is worth €1800!! The reply is usually you've a hundred of those if it was me I'd sell up. They don't realise the cost to rear a calf or a lamb and the hard work that goes into it. Margins are tight even if the infrastructure of the farm is good. Not a lot in it but I wouldn't dream of doing anything else.

stantheman1979 wrote:

To the city dwellers were all millionaires getting free money from Europe. My sister in law gasps when she hears the tractor was 60 grand and that each cow and calf is worth €1800!! The reply is usually you've a hundred of those if it was me I'd sell up. They don't realise the cost to rear a calf or a lamb and the hard work that goes into it. Margins are tight even if the infrastructure of the farm is good. Not a lot in it but I wouldn't dream of doing anything else.

Those people with that "I'd sell up and blow all the money" attitude are only in it for the handy life with no ambition (lazy free loaders, which is why they don't have anything to sell in the first place). If everyone did that you could say goodbye to all the businesses and employment. Every company owner would just feck off and close shop.

Username John

mf240 wrote: »

Think you can get a grant for a nice headstone and coffin of your in reps four.

I bet you have to get the marble surround and pebbles then too...
Fcuking dept and their rules and regulations...

Sure at least we know now

White Clover

mf240 wrote: »

Think you can get a grant for a nice headstone and coffin of your in reps four.

The grant is for dairy farmers only!!!

susign

mf240 wrote:

Think you can get a grant for a nice headstone and coffin of your in reps four.

That's true, we're getting a "Go to get a part time job" grant next year as well. It's brilliant

mf240

White Clover wrote: »

The grant is for dairy farmers only!!!

Sure everyone is dying to milk cows!!:D:D

Who2

susign wrote: »

Those people with that "I'd sell up and blow all the money" attitude are only in it for the handy life with no ambition (lazy free loaders, which is why they don't have anything to sell in the first place). If everyone did that you could say goodbye to all the businesses and employment. Every company owner would just feck off and close shop.

Your in great form this morning.

White Clover

mf240 wrote: »

Sure everyone is dying to milk cows!!:D:D

LOL dying to or dying from??!!

susign

Who2 wrote:

Your in great form this morning.

Hung over

Username John

susign wrote: »

Those people with that "I'd sell up and blow all the money" attitude are only in it for the handy life with no ambition (lazy free loaders, which is why they don't have anything to sell in the first place). If everyone did that you could say goodbye to all the businesses and employment. Every company owner would just feck off and close shop.

There will always be the 'sell it and live the high life' people...

But there are people do see it as strange... and maybe rightly so...

Some people see that farmers have an asset worth a lot, but getting a poor return... lets say the farmer is part time... now add in a mortgage...

So you have a lad with a full time job, after borrowing money to build / but a house, and paying interest every year...

They have an asset, that if sold could clear the mortgage saving a lot of interest payment in the years to come... However, the asset whilst generating some money, only generates the same amount as the interest payments on the mortgage every year... and this is after putting in 15hours a week for every week of the year...

I'm not advocating selling, I wouldn't do it myself... But from a money perspective, I can see why some people ask those kinda 'why don't you sell some?' type questions...

Madisonmenece

stantheman1979 wrote: »

To the city dwellers were all millionaires getting free money from Europe. My sister in law gasps when she hears the tractor was 60 grand and that each cow and calf is worth €1800!! The reply is usually you've a hundred of those if it was me I'd sell up. They don't realise the cost to rear a calf or a lamb and the hard work that goes into it. Margins are tight even if the infrastructure of the farm is good. Not a lot in it but I wouldn't dream of doing anything else.

Yes that is true, a lot people from non farming backgrounds do not understand the the amount of hours, level of work involved or tight margins.

We are planning a succession plan at the moment, I do have a reasonable well paid full time role but I do love farming and in the future would like it to be my main activity.

I do not want to farm myself into a debit nor do I want to abandon my family to a full time job tied with a dairy enterprise which would be all consuming.