Phonewatch Honeywell Domonial Panel Contract Renewal

tonkpills

Just looking for advice... I have been with Phonewatch for the last 3 years and my contract has ended. I was paying €35 per month and now it's gone up to €35.89pm for another 12 months if I continue. I was under the impression that monitor only was €20pm when I finished the contract but that's no longer available.

My options are:
1] Seek another monitoring company to switch to that has the ability to control the Domonial panel.

2] After doing research switch to Honeywell Le Sucre Basic Kit for £173.34 inc VAT. It's compatible with the existing Domonial peripherals (using same radio band). I would see that I just have to disconnect the existing panel and repair all the peripherals to the new one.
Looks like the sim card that it comes with will work for 2 years but I wouldn't say that would stop me purchasing a PAYG sim and topping it up.
Le Sucre™ Quick Installation guide
Le Sucre™ Complete Guide

Anyone have any luck with different monitoring companies or the Le Sucre kit?

Thanks.

kub

I would be very interested to see how this works out for you, Honeywell made that panel specifically for Sector aka Phonewatch.
It is not compatible with any other monitoring stations receiving equipment, so I will be very interested to see is another Honeywell panel compatible with whatever Honeywell detectors you have on your system, my hunch is that they are twigged only to work with the Sector Domonial.

Also, the equipment which is part of the Phonewatch system, installed in your property may not even be yours.
Check your contract, I have a hunch when and if you cancel your monitoring, they will send someone out to take their equipment back.

Annoying after paying out all that money over the last 3 years and possibly having nothing at the end of it.

tonkpills

Thanks kub, nowhere in my contract (as far as I can tell) that they say that they own the equipment (bar the branded decoy bellbox). It does say that I don't own the equipment until I make the final payment. That would be frustrating having nothing at the end of it, let's hope it's not the case. I must double check it when I get home

tonkpills

Looks like they rebranded the Le Sucre to evohome Security?

https://getconnected.honeywell.com/en/evohome-security
https://getconnected.honeywell.com/en/smart-wireless-home-alarm-kit-camera-support

KoolKid

tonkpills wrote: »

Thanks kub, nowhere in my contract (as far as I can tell) that they say that they own the equipment (bar the branded decoy bellbox). It does say that I don't own the equipment until I make the final payment. That would be frustrating having nothing at the end of it, let's hope it's not the case. I must double check it when I get home

They have it worded very well without stating which you are.

5. OWNERSHIP OF THE ALARM SYSTEM
a) Rental Customers
If Your Contract with Us is a rental agreement, We retain ownership of the Alarm System at all
times and the Alarm System is provided to You on a rental basis only. The Alarm System shall
be returned to Us on the termination of the Contract and You agree to allow Us access to the
Premises for the purpose of removing the Alarm System. Such access will be at a reasonably
convenient pre-determined time. We reserve the right to charge a de-install fee and You will
be advised of any such Charges. If such access cannot be reasonably provided then We
reserve the right to invoice You for the full cost of the Alarm System together with the
reasonable costs incurred by Us in an effort to reclaim Our property.
b) Other Customers
If Your Contract with Us is not a rental agreement, the property in the Alarm System (except
Retained Property) shall not pass to You until We have received, in cleared-funds, payment of
the Charges which are then due. We retain ownership of the Retained Property at all times.
Retained Property shall be returned to Us on the termination of the Contract and You agree to
allow Us access to the Premises for the purpose of removing such Retained Property. Such
access will be at a reasonably convenient pre-determined time. We reserve the right to charge
a de-install fee and You will be advised of any such Charges. If such access cannot be
reasonably provided then We reserve the right to invoice You for the full cost of the Retained
Property in question together with the reasonable costs incurred by Us in an effort to reclaim
Our property.

If you have their new system I'd say somewhere you agreed to the rental agreement.
Either way that system would be useless to you I'd say.

altor

tonkpills wrote: »

Just looking for advice... I have been with Phonewatch for the last 3 years and my contract has ended. I was paying €35 per month and now it's gone up to €35.89pm for another 12 months if I continue. I was under the impression that monitor only was €20pm when I finished the contract but that's no longer available.

My options are:
1] Seek another monitoring company to switch to that has the ability to control the Domonial panel.

2] After doing research switch to Honeywell Le Sucre Basic Kit for £173.34 inc VAT. It's compatible with the existing Domonial peripherals (using same radio band). I would see that I just have to disconnect the existing panel and repair all the peripherals to the new one.
Looks like the sim card that it comes with will work for 2 years but I wouldn't say that would stop me purchasing a PAYG sim and topping it up.
Le Sucre™ Quick Installation guide
Le Sucre™ Complete Guide

Anyone have any luck with different monitoring companies or the Le Sucre kit?

Thanks.

The systems are different frequency's.
Same with the HKC system sold in England.
Sensors wont talk to the systems control panel from Ireland.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

They have it worded very well without stating which you are.

5. OWNERSHIP OF THE ALARM SYSTEM
a) Rental Customers
If Your Contract with Us is a rental agreement, We retain ownership of the Alarm System at all
times and the Alarm System is provided to You on a rental basis only. The Alarm System shall
be returned to Us on the termination of the Contract and You agree to allow Us access to the
Premises for the purpose of removing the Alarm System. Such access will be at a reasonably
convenient pre-determined time. We reserve the right to charge a de-install fee and You will
be advised of any such Charges. If such access cannot be reasonably provided then We
reserve the right to invoice You for the full cost of the Alarm System together with the
reasonable costs incurred by Us in an effort to reclaim Our property.
b) Other Customers
If Your Contract with Us is not a rental agreement, the property in the Alarm System (except
Retained Property) shall not pass to You until We have received, in cleared-funds, payment of
the Charges which are then due. We retain ownership of the Retained Property at all times.
Retained Property shall be returned to Us on the termination of the Contract and You agree to
allow Us access to the Premises for the purpose of removing such Retained Property. Such
access will be at a reasonably convenient pre-determined time. We reserve the right to charge
a de-install fee and You will be advised of any such Charges. If such access cannot be
reasonably provided then We reserve the right to invoice You for the full cost of the Retained
Property in question together with the reasonable costs incurred by Us in an effort to reclaim
Our property.

If you have their new system I'd say somewhere you agreed to the rental agreement.
Either way that system would be useless to you I'd say.

Now how does ' Having Phonewatch Feel '
Not having a go at you OP but it is amazing how Dr Jerkel becomes Mr Hyde

KoolKid

Love this bit

If such access cannot be reasonably provided then We
reserve the right to invoice You for the full cost of the Alarm System together with the
reasonable costs incurred by Us in an effort to reclaim Our property.

kub

Could we put that chunk of their contract up on a sticky as a warning to people.

KoolKid

Unfortunately many people dont listen to warnings. I don't know how many times I've .....
Ahh sure Mary has it & she says its great.

kub

tonkpills wrote: »

Looks like they rebranded the Le Sucre to evohome Security?

https://getconnected.honeywell.com/en/evohome-security
https://getconnected.honeywell.com/en/smart-wireless-home-alarm-kit-camera-support

In all my years that is the first time i have seen a 'security system' without a keypad.
So lose your keys, not only can someone open your front door but they can also switch off your ( Mickey mouse ) alarm system with the fob on your keyring.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

Unfortunately many people dont listen to warnings. I don't know how many times I've .....
Ahh sure Mary has it & she says its great.

The Mary's have more money than sense though :D:D

tonkpills

I have checked the system design and nowhere it says the words rental. Also in the renewal letter it doesn't say rental. So is it safe to assume that I'm the "Other Customer"? There terms are terrible. I'm trying to look at the contract pre 2015 and archive.org doesn't seam to have it.

KoolKid

AFAIK all the new systems are rental agreements,give them a call and ask them.
How much did you pay for the original installation?

tonkpills

€499 for the alarm & €1260 for 3 years monitoring & maintenance. I'll give them another ring tomorrow and I'll let you know.

KoolKid

€499 for an hours labour if its a rental?:eek:

tonkpills

Just confirmed with them that it's not a rental contract. I wouldn't call it an hour, it was about 30mins, should have seen the mess they left the place in! Chipping off the render of the house to get the decoy bell box up.

I'll post up a picture of the contract later for people to reference.

KoolKid

I'd still say that the panel will be useless to you.

tonkpills

KoolKid wrote: »

I'd still say that the panel will be useless to you.

The EvoHome Security one?

tonkpills

Contract Page 1


Contract Page 2


Renewal Letter Page 1


Renewal Letter Page 2


Ignore the scribbles, one of my kids got a hold of the contract and started to colour it in

PS: I also managed to get them down to €30.50PM.

KoolKid

tonkpills wrote: »

The EvoHome Security one?

The Phonewatch Honeywell Domonial one.

tonkpills

KoolKid wrote: »

The Phonewatch Honeywell Domonial one.

I agree, I was looking at the cable and software to program the Domonial system myself but I don't think it's worth it TBH.

I've contacted Honeywell to see if I can use my existing accessories (PIR, Door Contacts etc) of the Domonial system and use them with the EvoHome Security Hub instead for a self-monitoring option. If it does I'll disconnect the Domonial Panel and repair the accessories to the new Hub.

This could provide an alternative to other users who are not tied into a rental contract.

KoolKid

I'd say phonewatch have their own closed protocol on their panels and devices..
Likewise to view cameras etc.

tonkpills

I'd say they are just using standard Honeywell equipment but just branded. Checked the models of these and it looks like some are definitely compatible just not sure of PIR and Keypad, just waiting for Honeywell to come back to me and I'll let you know.

Honeywell Panel Domonial Model -> HMI8NO-SEC7G

Wireless LED keypad:
LKP-S8M

Passive infrared detector with built in still camera and infrared LEDs:
CAMIR-N

Wireless Smoke Sensor:
DFS8M

Door/window compact magnetic contact:
DO800M

Wireless Keyfob (new):
TCE800M

Wireless Keyfob (old):
TCB800M

KoolKid

It's not about models a d devices being the same. The wireless protocols can be coded diffently.
Visonic did it with Europlex wireless and there are some companies here have the same deal with Risco.
I'm not 100 percent it's the same with PW, but I'd be very surprised if it's not. PW s whole business model now is you can't switch or go anywhere else.

gamboyz

Any update on this?
Anyone have manual to reprogram the panel?

tonkpills

No update. A letter came to renew and I forgot to ring up so I'm in another year. Gonna do it for sure next year, just have to set a reminder.

Seems like too much work to get the correct cable and software to reprogram the panel. Might be best to ditch the panel and keypad and go for the EvoHome Security panel. Not 100% on the compatibility on all the Domonial accessories but most of them will work.

https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/39-honeywell-evohome-security

tonkpills

No update. A letter came to renew and I forgot to ring up so I'm in another year. Gonna do it for sure next year, just have to set a reminder.

Seems like too much work to get the correct cable and software to reprogram the panel. Might be best to ditch the panel and keypad and go for the EvoHome Security panel. Not 100% on the compatibility on all the Domonial accessories but most of them will work.

https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/39-honeywell-evohome-security

tonkpills

gamboyz wrote: »

Anyone have manual to reprogram the panel?

Sent you the Honeywell Dominial Installers Manual that I have via PM

cabryguy

Hi, my PW contract is expiring - is it possible to re-program the panel or do I require a new panel and try and repair the existing PIR etc?

KoolKid

If it's their new system with the PiR cameras you can't do anything with it as it's not your equipment.
Funnily enough I have heard customers being charged a further €200 to have PW take back their own equipment.
Will people never learn.??

tonkpills

cabryguy wrote: »

Hi, my PW contract is expiring - is it possible to re-program the panel or do I require a new panel and try and repair the existing PIR etc?

You have to check your contract to see if you own the equipment first.

If you do, in my opinion, you can do one of the following:
1] Get software and the cables/converters to re-program the panel - very steep learning curve and is just as costly as the next option.

2] Buy Evohome Security Panel and reuse some of the peripherals of your current system see here.
I think you can reuse the fobs/tags/fire alarm/door sensors but this is a gamble as KoolKid said they might be using a different frequency's.
You will make up the cost in year 1 because you will be saving the monitoring costs. You might need to let your house insurance know that your self-monitoring your alarm and might lose your discount.

3] Buy a complete new alarm system...

Let us know how you get on, I'll be doing option 2 before next year's renewal, I got them down to €30p/m.

davidconroy46

I would like to see if you can alter this panel. Made by honeywell, for phone watch only, im looking into how to reprog myself.

KoolKid

It can be done, but its pointless. Its not the customers equipment to use in this manner,

Irene ODaniel

Hi, everyone.
I'm in the same situation when I want to get rid of PW and take control of the equipment I already have.

Anybody got success with it?

Thanks

KoolKid

Irene ODaniel wrote: »

Hi, everyone.
I'm in the same situation when I want to get rid of PW and take control of the equipment I already have.

Anybody got success with it?

Thanks

If this is their new system it's not yours to take control of. You are only renting it. Read the terms and conditions. It will be absolutely useless to you.