Sparch - losing the battle

beardybrewer

The Indo lead with an article about about the people enjoying themselves and soaking up some sun at the Spanish Arch last weekend as losing the battle on public drinking bye-laws.

Now I was there myself with the family on Sunday and it was a lovely atmosphere. There was salsa dancers (very smart advertising from that dance instructor), music, ice cream, people picnicking (*), and generally a good vibe.

Yes there was a crate of beer by nearly every group. We actually commented on the lack of guards harassing people and in our minds as long as there's no trouble then common sense policing should prevail. We did have to have a chat with our young fella as one of the local drunks was trying to chat him up but that can happen anywhere. Other than that, it was a great festival atmosphere.

http://www.galwayindependent.com/news/topics/articles/2017/03/29/4137439-losing-the-battle-/

What's does boards think?

* No grass was harmed

Zzippy

I just thanked your post for the grass comment, but I wonder, was some of it not smoked?

BrokenArrows

Drinking by the arch in the sun is one of the great Galway experiences. Take that away and the city loses a lot of its summer atmosphere.

As long as no trouble is started then I don't see a problem. No problem with police presence either checking for underage drinkers and just keeping people in check.

what_traffic

beardybrewer wrote: »

http://www.galwayindependent.com/news/topics/articles/2017/03/29/4137439-losing-the-battle-/

What's does boards think?

"
However, Fine Gael Cllr Pádraig Conneely said the byelaws are “not worth the paper they’re written on”.
"
It is not very often that I would agree with what Cllr Pádraig Conneely says, but he is spot on here.
Do the byelaws need to be changed?

rabjoshu

"Drinking by the arch in the sun is one of the great Galway experiences. Take that away and the city loses a lot of its summer atmosphere. "

Really? Look at how it used to look

elefant

rabjoshu wrote: »

"Drinking by the arch in the sun is one of the great Galway experiences. Take that away and the city loses a lot of its summer atmosphere. "

Really? Look at how it used to look

I'd prefer bags full of cans to parks full of cars myself.

gordongekko

rabjoshu wrote: »

"Drinking by the arch in the sun is one of the great Galway experiences. Take that away and the city loses a lot of its summer atmosphere. "

Really? Look at how it used to look

The only person in that picture has a heavy coat on them. It was hardly summer weather

Your Face

Both sides in this argument are equally odious.

BrokenArrows

rabjoshu wrote: »

"Drinking by the arch in the sun is one of the great Galway experiences. Take that away and the city loses a lot of its summer atmosphere. "

Really? Look at how it used to look

Whats your point?
An old photo of the area with a car park where there is now a nice pedestrian area? Is it supposed to represent a great time in galways past or something?

rabjoshu

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Whats your point?
An old photo of the area with a car park where there is now a nice pedestrian area? Is it supposed to represent a great time in galways past or something?

The point is that it is not one of Galway's great experiences drinking in a public place.

BrokenArrows

I should add to my previous post that i dont agree with the mess left behind. I have always taken my rubbish behind in previous years and so have most of the people i would associate with.

The city needs to improve the quantity of bins in the area. Its inevitable that people will gather here in the summer and you should make it as easy as possible to place their rubbish in a bin.

BrokenArrows

rabjoshu wrote: »

The point is that it is not one of Galway's great experiences drinking in a public place.

And the picture is supposed to represent a great experience of the spanish arch with only 4 cars on the bridge and 1 person?

joeKel73

rabjoshu wrote: »

The point is that it is not one of Galway's great experiences drinking in a public place.

Using the same logic....

Visiting the Eiffel Tower is not one of Paris' great experiences.

<insert picture of Paris pre-Eiffel Tower>

_Whimsical_

This video was on the Connaught Tribune fb on Monday night.
https://www.facebook.com/ConnachtTribune/videos/1360409847348587/

While I think the whole Sparch setup is a lovely amenity I can see why nights as featured in the video would not be a sustainable thing. You'd just need one or two people to get a bit aggressive and things could get very messy. It's not really an area where guards could easily intervene without risk to their safety either so I can see why they wouldn't be too enthusiastic about trying to police the area.

Also OP, this :

We did have to have a chat with our young fella as one of the local drunks was trying to chat him up but that can happen anywhere.

Hmm could this happen anywhere you bring your family? Are kids and drunks hanging out on the average family walk of a sunny evening? I wouldn't be delighted now if that happened with my imaginary kids.
That story gave me pause for thought. It's ok if you have a vigilant parent around but if not, if you let your child off with the neighbours for the evening and they land down there and aren't well supervised, then there's a potential for trouble I hadn't thought of. The idea of young kids and drunk adults mixing like that doesn't sit that well with me.
There are plenty pubs and beer gardens and back gardens for people to enjoy the sun if they want to drink. Why can't we have a nice area to enjoy sun where people aren't getting drunk early in the evening?

Mrs OBumble

The sheer amount of public drinking led to a fair bit of drunken disorder on the streets on Sunday night though. Theres a rumour that the guards had to be called to a clear a mini riot in Quay St at 3am. I dont know it its true or not - but i do know for sure that there was far more messing and people running aroud than usual. (People running usually means from the guards at that time.)

The fence that the council had up due to high tide was pretty well demolished too.

beardybrewer

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Hmm could this happen anywhere you bring your family? Are kids and drunks hanging out on the average family walk of a sunny evening?

Honestly, yeah it can and does happen anywhere. We've had encounters like this the prom before. Druggies like to shoot up near the playground in Eyre Square. It can happen on the train or a bus getting stuck next to some strung out fecker roaring and you just bundle them up and move on. All in all, Galway isn't coming down in them or anything but you'll have these little encounters from time to time. If you want to put your theoretical kids in a bubble and think you're better than me then feel free. Teaching your kids a bit of street smarts is just part and parcel to parenting. For the record we walked from the prom across the lock to grab some ice cream and check out the salsa dancers. To be sure by evening some may have taken it too far, but at that time it was a great atmosphere out and I saw nothing the matter with my kids being around happy people enjoying some sun.

topcat77

I'd like to see the off licences take a bit of responsibility for the rubbish just as the fast food outlets have to.

_Whimsical_

beardybrewer wrote: »

Honestly, yeah it can and does happen anywhere. We've had encounters like this the prom before. Druggies like to shoot up near the playground in Eyre Square. It can happen on the train or a bus getting stuck next to some strung out fecker roaring and you just bundle them up and move on. All in all, Galway isn't coming down in them or anything but you'll have these little encounters from time to time. If you want to put your theoretical kids in a bubble and think you're better than me then feel free. Teaching your kids a bit of street smarts is just part and parcel to parenting. For the record we walked from the prom across the lock to grab some ice cream and check out the salsa dancers. To be sure by evening some may have taken it too far, but at that time it was a great atmosphere out and I saw nothing the matter with my kids being around happy people enjoying some sun.

Firstly I don't think I'm better than you at all, I don't know where you are getting that.

I just think your kids should be able to go to any public place on a summers evening and not have to deal with people drunkly chatting them up or impinging on them in any regard. I feel their right to that should always trump my right to swig Buckfast or beer in the sun.

I don't see why we couldn't have Salsa dancing and ice cream and picnics and street theatre and bands and sitting out being social chatting and meeting people without the element of alcohol? Why do we need it? I think giving kids that example is beneficial as teaching then how to ward off drunk pervs.
There are plenty places to enjoy a drink or get hammered if you so desire, en masse in a public area amidst kids right next to a body of fast moving water probably shouldn't be one though.

ben.schlomo

topcat77 wrote: »

I'd like to see the off licences take a bit of responsibility for the rubbish just as the fast food outlets have to.

There was takeaway packaging strewn across the ground down our road the last day,didn't see any fast food outlet come clean it up!!

_Whimsical_

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Firstly I don't think I'm better than you at all, I don't know where you are getting that.

I just think your kids should be able to go to any public place on a summers evening and not have to deal with people drunkly chatting them up or impinging on them in any regard. I feel their right to that should always trump my right to swig Buckfast or beer in the sun.

I don't see why we couldn't have Salsa dancing and ice cream and picnics and street theatre and bands and sitting out being social chatting and meeting people without the element of alcohol? Why do we need it? I think giving kids that example is beneficial as teaching then how to ward off drunk pervs.
There are plenty places to enjoy a drink or get hammered if you so desire, en masse in a public area amidst kids right next to a body of fast moving water probably shouldn't be one though.

If it was pretty much anywhere else in Europe they would probably be open air bars selling drink down there never mind people bringing their own, why should we have to be so dry about it. People like to drink when they are socialising, take away that and the arch will be a fairly quiet place on a sunny day. Why stop people doing what they enjoy, kids don't need to be sheltered from people drinking its an everyday thing and as the poster said you will encounter winos coming up to you on the street on a normal day as much as you will down the arch.

People just need to learn to clean up after themselves aside from that let them have the craic and enjoy the sun.

Utopia Parkway

A few drinks under the sun down the Spanish Arch is a Galway tradition. Maybe not from 60 years ago but certainly the last 25+ years anyway. That said the place was left in a shíte state on Monday. I don't know if the answer is bigger bins down there or a bottle bank of some sort but people have to learn to clean up after themselves or else they are going to ruin it for everyone eventually.

Mervyn Skidmore

I don't have a problem with people enjoying the sun and having a few drinks but if they can't clean up after themselves then it's a problem. I don't see why the offies should have any responsibility, if everyone looked after their own rubbish then there wouldn't be any problem. Like everything in Ireland though, it'll be ruined by a few idiots.

ben.schlomo

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

I don't have a problem with people enjoying the sun and having a few drinks but if they can't clean up after themselves then it's a problem. I don't see why the offies should have any responsibility, if everyone looked after their own rubbish then there wouldn't be any problem. Like everything in Ireland though, it'll be ruined by a few idiots.

Exactly, the main/only problem is the rubbish. More bottle banks and larger bins would help a little but it's mainly the ignorance of those doing it that's the issue.

biko

As soon as there is a refundable deposit on cans and bottles the quicker that rubbish is gone.

gordongekko

biko wrote: »

As soon as there is a refundable deposit on cans and bottles the quicker that rubbish is gone.

The snowflake generation should be able to put their rubbish in a bin with being paid to do so.

Alf Veedersane

gordongekko wrote: »

The snowflake generation should be able to put their rubbish in a bin with being paid to do so.

People have littering f*cks for generations. It has nothing to do with snowflakes, millenials, Xs, Ys or Os

marklazarcovic

Every tourist spot for having beers etc is the same the morning after,needs a clean up, nothing new, only thing is the bars abroad are usually cheaper so less offie stuff, cans around,plastic glasses usually

flatty

There must also be a worry that someone will fall in the river. If it is high, they would drown as likely as not.

IBrows89

I think it's a beautiful place to go and have a few drinks and enjoy the sun and people watch. I agree with the mess that it's a joke but a couple of times I've been down there the bins have been filled up to the brim with waste in the early parts of the day. They should put another bottle and can recycling bin and another big industrial bin down there to make sure there is room to put the waste. I'm not using it as an excuse because we usually bring a bag and just keep all the waste in that but it couldn't hurt to have more space for bins.

In fairness it's a great spot whether you're drinking or not and I've never seen any fights or hassle down there really.

ben.schlomo

flatty wrote: »

There must also be a worry that someone will fall in the river. If it is high, they would drown as likely as not.

And someone might get knocked down crossing the road or maybe trip and hurt themselves or attack somebody or.....'what if' is a great game.

Squeeonline

biko wrote: »

As soon as there is a refundable deposit on cans and bottles the quicker that rubbish is gone.

You would need to be able to get a refund pretty close by, and for most the refund wouldn't be worth it.

Usually it's 10c/bottle or can and the idea of going to the centra to get less than a euro back just isn't worth the hassle IMO (especially if it's closed).

Otherwise it'll just encourage homeless people to go through the bins (happens in germany and canada where they have such refunds) and make even more of a mess.

It's a good idea but I think it needs more thought and proper implementation.

BrokenArrows

People need to be realistic.
Its Ireland and specifically Galway. There are a handful of days per year where the weather creates this type of atmosphere that people enjoy and the arch becomes a party.

Yes people should be cleaner and there may be occasional scuffles later on in the night but come on. Its not like its happening every night, not even every weekend.

Mrs OBumble

ben.schlomo wrote: »

And someone might get knocked down crossing the road or maybe trip and hurt themselves or attack somebody or.....'what if' is a great game.

Sorry, but to equate the dangers of crossing the road with the dangers of having a bunch of drunk people hanging out beside the river for an extended time is ridiculous.

Roads actually have some safety measures built into them: lights controlled crossings, islands half-way across, only licenses drivers are allowed to operate most vehicles, etc.

The riverbank as it stands has none of that, and in an accident waiting to happen. No ... not to happen, to recur. (Yes I can name someone who went off there will drunk, not in a group, but had been out on a bender. Whether it was deliberate or accidental, no one knows.)

Mrs OBumble

Grady Plain Honeybee wrote: »

If it was pretty much anywhere else in Europe they would probably be open air bars selling drink down there never mind people bringing their own, why should we have to be so dry about it. People like to drink when they are socialising, take away that and the arch will be a fairly quiet place on a sunny day. Why stop people doing what they enjoy, kids don't need to be sheltered from people drinking its an everyday thing and as the poster said you will encounter winos coming up to you on the street on a normal day as much as you will down the arch.

Unfortunately there's a world of difference between civilised drinking at riverside bars in Europe, and kids bush-drinking (minus the bushes!) at Spanish Arch. Yes, kids do need to be sheltered from the latter.

biko

I think it's time for a forum Beers soon. Down at Sparch of course

Nailz

biko wrote: »

I think it's time for a forum Beers soon. Down at Sparch of course

Great idea! Buzzkills need not apply

_Whimsical_

BrokenArrows wrote: »

People need to be realistic.
Its Ireland and specifically Galway. There are a handful of days per year where the weather creates this type of atmosphere that people enjoy and the arch becomes a party.

Yes people should be cleaner and there may be occasional scuffles later on in the night but come on. Its not like its happening every night, not even every weekend.

That fact makes it harder to anticipate security needs and to roster a garda presence for it though being realistic. There's no reason sober people can't go and sit there and hang out though is there?

inisboffin

Maybe I'm just having an 'Old' moment, but seeing that video makes me *not* want to Sparch, it doesn't look relaxing at all! If I want loud and crammed, I'd just head up to a pub on Quay St. I'd much rather sneak off and have a can under a tree in a park.
I saw someone suggest on FB that one area be designated a family/booze-free area, and the other left open but, that has its own issues like designating an area a 'party zone'.

I know someone living in those apartments, it's horrible in the summer, and it's not what they signed up for between late night madness and markets etc. More bins for sure, police the place to make sure there's no messing, and cut it off by 8 or 9 when the sun has gone down. Bushing can continue somewhere else if people want but it won't cause the same hassle on the streets, and the noise won't be horrible.

ben.schlomo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sorry, but to equate the dangers of crossing the road with the dangers of having a bunch of drunk people hanging out beside the river for an extended time is ridiculous.

Roads actually have some safety measures built into them: lights controlled crossings, islands half-way across, only licenses drivers are allowed to operate most vehicles, etc.

The riverbank as it stands has none of that, and in an accident waiting to happen. No ... not to happen, to recur. (Yes I can name someone who went off there will drunk, not in a group, but had been out on a bender. Whether it was deliberate or accidental, no one knows.)

And many pedestrians have been hit and killed by cars!!!! Who knew. Like I said 'what if' is a great game.

schemingbohemia

inisboffin wrote: »

Maybe I'm just having an 'Old' moment, but seeing that video makes me *not* want to Sparch, it doesn't look relaxing at all! If I want loud and crammed, I'd just head up to a pub on Quay St. I'd much rather sneak off and have a can under a tree in a park.
I saw someone suggest on FB that one area be designated a family/booze-free area, and the other left open but, that has its own issues like designating an area a 'party zone'.

I know someone living in those apartments, it's horrible in the summer, and it's not what they signed up for between late night madness and markets etc. More bins for sure, police the place to make sure there's no messing, and cut it off by 8 or 9 when the sun has gone down. Bushing can continue somewhere else if people want but it won't cause the same hassle on the streets, and the noise won't be horrible.

Sorry but it is exactly what they signed up for when they moved there. Sounds like people who move to near Croke Park and then give out about matches and concerts being on.

ben.schlomo

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

That fact makes it harder to anticipate security needs and to roster a garda presence for it though being realistic. There's no reason sober people can't go and sit there and hang out though is there?

Nobody said sober people can't sit there, I've sat and had my dinner there on numerous occasions when we lived in town.

Utopia Parkway

inisboffin wrote: »

I know someone living in those apartments, it's horrible in the summer, and it's not what they signed up for between late night madness and markets etc.

In fairness if you're in one of those apartments you are a stones throw from the bottom of Quay Street. There's going to be noise no matter what. One of the disadvantages of having such a central address. Think you have to weigh up are you OK with more noise for the advantages of living almost slap bang in the middle of Galway's social centre. Surely they must have known it was going to noisy to some extent?

inisboffin

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Sorry but it is exactly what they signed up for when they moved there. Sounds like people who move to near Croke Park and then give out about matches and concerts being on.

From my understanding at least, the people who moved in near Croke Park moved in to an area where there was a stadium existed (even with that there was a certain guarantee of management and safeguards from the stadium, which aren't always met).
The people who moved in to the apartments were given assurances about amplified noise time restrictions, which aren't enforced, about policing of public spaces (below) for safety, and about public drinking management. I can ask my friend for more specifics, but I don't think they signed up for that level of noise and partying.

inisboffin

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

In fairness if you're in one of those apartments you are a stones throw from the bottom of Quay Street. There's going to be noise no matter what. One of the disadvantages of having such a central address. Think you have to weigh up are you OK with more noise for the advantages of living almost slap bang in the middle of Galway's social centre. Surely they must have known it was going to noisy to some extent?

Actually from their side you can't hear Quay Street really at all. I've been there when music was on full blast in Spanish Arch hotel, and I couldn't hear it but you could hear the lads playing acoustic guitar and drums below like it was the sitting room. It's weird the way the noise moves. Perhaps the apts on the other side would definitely be in earshot, but not theirs.

Sconsey

schemingbohemia wrote: »

inisboffin wrote: »

Maybe I'm just having an 'Old' moment, but seeing that video makes me *not* want to Sparch, it doesn't look relaxing at all!  If I want loud and crammed, I'd just head up to a pub on Quay St.  I'd much rather sneak off and have a can under a tree in a park.
I saw someone suggest on FB that one area be designated a family/booze-free area, and the other left open but, that has its own issues like designating an area a 'party zone'.

I know someone living in those apartments, it's horrible in the summer, and it's not what they signed up for between late night madness and markets etc.  More bins for sure, police the place to make sure there's no messing, and cut it off by 8 or 9 when the sun has gone down.  Bushing can continue somewhere else if people want but it won't cause the same hassle on the streets, and the noise won't be horrible.

Sorry but it is exactly what they signed up for when they moved there. Sounds like people who move to near Croke Park and then give out about matches and concerts being on.

Everyone can have an expectation that the law will be enforced, it's reasonable to assume that they signed up to living there with the expectation that it would be a busy, noisy spot, not the site of illegal drinking/partying. So your comparison does not really hold up.

Many down there last night? A couple were injured during a knifepoint attempted robbery. It was late tbf.

http://galwaybayfm.ie/victims-spanish-arch-botched-robbery-hospitalised-knife-wounds/

JohnCleary

I'm starting to feel old, but thought Monday down the Sparch was class. You had all the chung-wans / students in the middle section with tunes blaring.

Then you had the relaxed area / hippie vibe over at the Sparch itself.

Then you had the 'adults' section down Long Walk :pac:


All the while, the background tunes brought a great vibe to all areas.

Pretty sickened about the rubbish left behind though, no one is going to argue that this is unacceptable. On the flip side, this may happen (with the exception of Paddy's Day), what... 5 times? Ces't la vie

inisboffin

Sconsey wrote: »

Everyone can have an expectation that the law will be enforced, it's reasonable to assume that they signed up to living there with the expectation that it would be a busy, noisy spot, not the site of illegal drinking/partying. So your comparison does not really hold up.

A noisy spot with what though? No one minds a bit of craic in daylight hours when there is noise. But an after hours party spot where (a) reason is that a law is not being enforced? OR Markets/Events that go way over levels and hours with amplified music (for this one I believe challenges have gone to a legal level, but as I don't live there I get that this could be construed as heresay).

I lived in town myself. You know there is noise, but people choose places even within that. For example, as someone mentioned, not facing Quay St, or not over a night club etc. Things change with businesses etc, but if you have nothing built right in front of you nor to the left (Spanish Arch) there is a certain expectation of consistency.

After 10 pm is really reasonable in my opinion, to ask people to move on if drinking and keep it down. If that needs to be policed so be it.

what_traffic

"Council to consider ‘designated drinking area’ at Spanish Arch"
http://connachttribune.ie/council-consider-designated-drinking-area-spanish-arch-300/

Nailz

what_traffic wrote: »

"Council to consider ‘designated drinking area’ at Spanish Arch"
http://connachttribune.ie/council-consider-designated-drinking-area-spanish-arch-300/

So... the Spanish Arch??

joeKel73

what_traffic wrote: »

"Council to consider ‘designated drinking area’ at Spanish Arch"
http://connachttribune.ie/council-consider-designated-drinking-area-spanish-arch-300/

"Councillor Peter Keane – the solicitor who drew up the bylaws – said the Council needs to..."

Stall the ball... did the council pay one of themselves to write up these new bye laws??