Finglas, Dublin 11 - Ballyconnell, Cavan - My Journey

Gumbo

Ok, so I said I would document this here.
It's not a major trip, it's not any great length but for a city dweller that has had performance cars all his life, and a recent EV convert (although hovering for a few years) it's a good test of the limits and capabilities of the car.

2014 Nissan Leaf
24kwh Battery
3.3 OBC
Current mileage - 59,000 km
Battery status - 12 Bars

Left Finglas at 5.35am @ 88% Battery Charge
Usual suite of lights, sat nav etc on
Heater on and set at 22 Degrees
M50, N3, M3
Cruise control set to 80kmh

Arrived at Navan FCP at 6.18am @ 48% Battery Charge.
M3 junction to FCP used 3% (left motorway at 51%).

Speed is a little on the low side but it's so early in the morning that I think 3 cars passed me during the trip. Loads heading towards Dublin though.

I think the cruise control is important as when I came off the M3 to navan I turned it off and without noticing I had creeped up to near 90kmh as it's an effortless acceleration IMO.

I done a small test on the motorway, cruising at 80kmh I reset my trip and done 29km using 26% of battery @ 80kmh.

Connected to FCP now so will update later.

Kceire out (drops mic).

k123456

Hi Folks question re Cruise Control , from a battery POV is it more efficient for me to use the pedal to achieve a set speed 80km (for example) or the cruise control

goz83

kceire wrote: »

Connected to FCP now so will update later.
.

Handy thing being a boardsie when connected to the FCP. Time to kill.

k123456 wrote: »

Hi Folks question re Cruise Control , from a battery POV is it more efficient for me to use the pedal to achieve a set speed 80km (for example) or the cruise control

I would say that the power consumed in pressing the button to set the CC is far outweighed by human inefficiency, as pointed out by Kceire in pasted excerpt below.

kceire wrote: »

I think the cruise control is important as when I came off the M3 to navan I turned it off and without noticing I had creeped up to near 90kmh as it's an effortless acceleration IMO.

KCross

k123456 wrote: »

Hi Folks question re Cruise Control , from a battery POV is it more efficient for me to use the pedal to achieve a set speed 80km (for example) or the cruise control

Supposedly better to use the pedal where you anticipate the hills and troughs.... i'm a bit skeptical if the difference is anything significant though and I just prefer to set the cruise and relax rather than driving like its a complex task.

Google "pulse and glide" and hypermiling

Using cruise control is almost the opposite of pulse and glide

k123456

Thx Folks, looks like cruise control is the way to go

unkel

Smooth anticipating driving is more efficient than cruise control. I'd rather average 110km/h with active smooth driving than 100km/h on cruise, for the same range.

Stop using those filthy words though and don't tell people to google them

Gumbo

Left Navan FCP @ 7.15am with 100% battery charge.

Arrived at Slieve Russel Hotel at 8.35sm with 18% Battery charge remaining.
No need to stop in Cavan at all.

Had the heater at 22 Degrees for half the journey.
Cruise control set to 90kmh this time.

Done a small test at 90kmh, 5km on motorway used 5%.

In hotel charging now

Makes a big difference for the return leg as I should have 100% so can bypass Cavan again and head straight to navan for a top up as I'll only need 40% to get home.

Delighted with how the car performed and maybe i underestimated its efficiency on motorways etc

Nekarsulm

I like the idea of the effortless acceleration, and the near 100% torque from zero revs of el. vehicles, but the idea of sitting at 80kph on the M3 down to Cavan (often its a completely empty road) and worrying about "creeping" up to nearly 90kph is horrifying.

80kph, and your heart would be in your mouth, waiting to be rammed by someone else doing the perfectly legal 120kph.

goz83

kceire wrote: »

Arrived at Slieve Russel Hotel at 8.35sm with 18% Battery charge remaining.
No need to stop in Cavan at all.

Had the heater at 22 Degrees for half the journey.
Cruise control set to 90kmh this time.

Done a small test at 90kmh, 5km on motorway used 5%.

In hotel charging now

Makes a big difference for the return leg as I should have 100% so can bypass Cavan again and head straight to navan for a top up as I'll only need 40% to get home.

Delighted with how the car performed and maybe i underestimated its efficiency on motorways etc

Glad you made it there easy enough. It's so different from driving an ICE and while there is a level of range anxiety, when you make it to your destination and it has cost you next to nothing, it's a great feeling.

goz83

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I like the idea of the effortless acceleration, and the near 100% torque from zero revs of el. vehicles, but the idea of sitting at 80kph on the M3 down to Cavan (often its a completely empty road) and worrying about "creeping" up to nearly 90kph is horrifying.

80kph, and your heart would be in your mouth, waiting to be rammed by someone else doing the perfectly legal 120kph.

You'd want to be a fairly nervous driver to have your heart in your mouth doing 80 on a motorway, worrying about the fools behind you. I was perfectly comfortable doing 90kph on cruise from Dublin to Portlaoise. Granted, I would usually be the one doing the overtaking in my ICE, but it was nice not to rush, just because I could.

Gumbo

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I like the idea of the effortless acceleration, and the near 100% torque from zero revs of el. vehicles, but the idea of sitting at 80kph on the M3 down to Cavan (often its a completely empty road) and worrying about "creeping" up to nearly 90kph is horrifying.

80kph, and your heart would be in your mouth, waiting to be rammed by someone else doing the perfectly legal 120kph.

Could have gone a lot faster but it was my first trip so wanted something to benchmark against.

Nekarsulm

kceire wrote: »

Could have gone a lot faster but it was my first trip so wanted something to benchmark against.

Out of interest, would it be possible to do the trip without stopping in Navan?
Or at least Finglas to Cavan? (80 miles)

KCross

kceire wrote: »

Arrived at Slieve Russel Hotel at 8.35sm with 18% Battery charge remaining.
No need to stop in Cavan at all.

What did you charge to in Navan and how long did it take, presuming you went beyond 80%?

Gumbo

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Out of interest, would it be possible to do the trip without stopping in Navan?
Or at least Finglas to Cavan? (80 miles)

I don't think so as I used 80% to get from navan to Ballyconnell.
It took 17% to get from Cavan town junction to the hotel so say 63% from navan to Cavan. It took 40% from finglas to navan so no you wouldn't make it.
Technically you'd need a 5 min charge in navan but you would be on the limits.

KCross wrote: »

What did you charge to in Navan and how long did it take, presuming you went beyond 80%?

Charged to 100%.
Took 56 mins from 48%.

Gumbo

Also bear in mind I have a 24kwh Leaf.
The 30kwh version may make it as with other newer EV's.

Nekarsulm

kceire wrote: »

Also bear in mind I have a 24kwh Leaf.
The 30kwh version may make it as with other newer EV's.

That's interesting to note. I suppose batteries and ranges are only going to get better. By the time I can afford one, they will probably be up to 200k range.

KCross

kceire wrote: »

Left Finglas at 5.35am @ 88% Battery Charge

How come you didnt fully charge at home? That would have saved you some time at Navan?!

kceire wrote: »

Charged to 100%.
Took 56 mins from 48%.

The 56mins is a pain particularly if there happened to be someone in front or behind you at the charger.


Well done for taking it on somewhat blindfolded! Since its such a black spot for rapids your stats Im sure will help others.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

How come you didnt fully charge at home? That would have saved you some time at Navan?!

Guessing here: no home charger and didn't want granny cable connected overnight (in the rain)

Leaving the house at 5:30AM only for to have to charge for an hour soon after (which you could have stayed in bed) is a right pain in the hole though

Gumbo

KCross wrote: »

How come you didnt fully charge at home? That would have saved you some time at Navan?!




The 56mins is a pain particularly if there happened to be someone in front or behind you at the charger.


Well done for taking it on somewhat blindfolded! Since its such a black spot for rapids your stats Im sure will help others.

I still have no home charger.
I was at 88% so I weighed up the cost/hassle of granny cable to gain 12% at home against how quick I would get that 12% at the FCP, and I knew that the time would be spent getting me from 80-100%.

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

Guessing here: no home charger and didn't want granny cable connected overnight (in the rain)

Leaving the house at 5:30AM only for to have to charge for an hour soon after (which you could have stayed in bed) is a right pain in the hole though

I was at 88% at home so even if I had 100% I still would of having to stop in navan.

Nekarsulm

The charging point in Cavan, downhill from Tractamotors, is usually available. I have only seen it in use twice, and one of those was a German tourist. The council had an el. Renault van, but I never see it on the road anymore, its parked out at the old Rehab factory on the Ballinagh road.

Mope

unkel wrote: »

Guessing here: no home charger and didn't want granny cable connected overnight (in the rain)

Leaving the house at 5:30AM only for to have to charge for an hour soon after (which you could have stayed in bed) is a right pain in the hole though

Is granny cable afraid of rain?

KCross

Mope wrote: »

Is granny cable afraid of rain?

No, as long as the socket you are plugged into is correctly IP rated for outdoor use. The granny cable itself can be used in the rain.

If you are using a standard indoor extension lead then its not recommended to have the extension lead in the rain.

Mope

If I am not getting charging point installed before I receive my car (which is most likely what is going to happen) I am planning to connect Granny cable to the socket INSIDE of the house, then somehow (not sure how) get it outside without leaving front doors open over night

Does it qualify to be safe? The cable itself is outside (which is fine for it), just socket is inside.

goz83

Mope wrote: »

If I am not getting charging point installed before I receive my car (which is most likely what is going to happen) I am planning to connect Granny cable to the socket INSIDE of the house, then somehow (not sure how) get it outside without leaving front doors open over night

Does it qualify to be safe? The cable itself is outside (which is fine for it), just socket is inside.

If the 3 pin plug is inside, it's fine. The issue is when someone runs an extension lead from inside to outside, which is not rated for outdoor use.

I was very lucky because I have an outdoor double socket for the pond, so the granny cable was used while I waited for the CP to be installed.

Gumbo

Mope wrote: »

If I am not getting charging point installed before I receive my car (which is most likely what is going to happen) I am planning to connect Granny cable to the socket INSIDE of the house, then somehow (not sure how) get it outside without leaving front doors open over night

Does it qualify to be safe? The cable itself is outside (which is fine for it), just socket is inside.

This will be hard to do as the plug socket is chunky and then the main units won't fit out a letterbox for example. Best bet is to run an outdoor socket and then connect to that externally.

Mope

kceire wrote: »

This will be hard to do as the plug socket is chunky and then the main units won't fit out a letterbox for example. Best bet is to run an outdoor socket and then connect to that externally.

You are reading my mind, this is exactly was I was hoping to try

I do have external Double socket, but it's in my backyard... no good.

That means I'm stuck with Public Chargers until I get my own and just hope Public Charger access cards arrive before I get car :eek:

unkel

Mope wrote: »

and just hope Public Charger access cards arrive before I get car :eek:

With most public chargers any RFID card will work :cool:

So a newish bank card, a leap card (public transport), etc.

Mope

That is cool, did not know this... so I can wave with AIB or Leap card and I am in? (provided they are compatible)
Basically they read data of who is using the system, but not charging anything yet, correct?

unkel

Yep should work on most chargers.

Mope

You are a gent, as always.
Thanks

Gumbo

Mope wrote: »

That is cool, did not know this... so I can wave with AIB or Leap card and I am in? (provided they are compatible)
Basically they read data of who is using the system, but not charging anything yet, correct?

Yes. I used my PTSB ATM card on my Belfast-Dublin trip when I first bought the car.

But. Some people have said that some chargers have been updated and don't accept them.

If I was you, id contact eCars and tell them
You are buying an EV. Link the car you are buying and they'll ask for proof of address and ID and they will send the cards to you. You then send a copy of the vlc once bought in your name for their records. This is all done by email also.

ecars@esb.ie

stesaurus

Slightly high jacking your thread here kceire but just to note i needed to use a granny for first few weeks of ownership but needed windows and doors locked also. What worked for me was a downstairs vent. It was large enough to accommodate the bulky granny EVSE and allow the cable to reach the car and socket.
Might be an unusual solution for someone else.

Mope

Hi kceire,

Thanks for the info!
I've applied for Access card on Tue night and first thing in the morning, like 8.15 AM, got an email that it's in the post (2 cards) to me. Was VERY surprised with such a quick reply. I simply said I am buying the car, quoted dealer iD, Grant application reference, that was enough for them.

Hi s.welstead,

This is what I think of doing myself. I have 2 vents in Living room, one of them is low to the ground. Will try to hold of doing holes in vents and see if IONIQ is that good so I can charge on way home in station to full and then home -> work -> station -> home.

unkel

Charging to full takes quite a long time but charging from 30%-80% on a 50kW charger in the Ioniq takes just over 15 minutes :cool:

And would be a lot faster again if the fast chargers in Ireland weren't so slow...

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

Charging to full takes quite a long time but charging from 30%-80% on a 50kW charger in the Ioniq takes just over 15 minutes :cool:

And would be a lot faster again if the fast chargers in Ireland weren't so slow...

Yes agree. I got from 48% to 80% in less than 20mins.
Every 1% increase above 80% took 2 mins.

Gumbo

Ok, on to the return leg.

Left The Slieve Russel Hotel at 100% at 11.10am.

Drove the twisty roads to Cavan town junction in B mode and no cruise with heater off (14 degrees temp external).

Got to the junction which is circa 24km with 80% remaining.

Arrived at Maxol Navan with 18% Battery Remaining.
Used heater on and off occasionally and cruise control set to 100kmh on motorway and a mix of 90-95kmh driving in between.

Short test on M3 = 100kmh cruise set with no heater, 5.1km used 5%.

Here now, another leaf using but he said he be only 10 mins. All I need is a 22% boost to get home but I'll try to get l up to 60% plus so I can boot it home

Roads seem to be more up hill coming back.

Gumbo

Home al done.
Got to 73% by 1.05pm in Navan so headed home.
Not many stats, just booted it. Used a lot more battery getting from navan to finglas then I did the opposite way the other day, but I wasn't Battery watching this time.

Cruise set to 110kmh and 4km used 5%.

unkel

kceire wrote: »

Home al done.
Got to 73% by 1.05pm in Navan so headed home.
Not many stats, just booted it. Used a lot more battery getting from navan to finglas then I did the opposite way the other day, but I wasn't Battery watching this time.

Cruise set to 110kmh and 4km used 5%.

80km range at 110km/h indicated (real speed a tiny bit over 100km/h). Ouch!

KCross

unkel wrote: »

80km range at 110km/h indicated (real speed a tiny bit over 100km/h). Ouch!

Thats not the true range.

The % readout isnt linear so you cant work it out like that. Not sure if the Ioniq is the same or not. What you really need to see to figure out range at a particular speed is the Wh/km.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

80km range at 110km/h indicated (real speed a tiny bit over 100km/h). Ouch!

Yeah I'd say thats a little underestimated but not far off.

I would do 120km on around 85-95% at indicated 102 km/h depending on a/c use.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Thats not the true range.

The % readout isnt linear so you cant work it out like that. Not sure if the Ioniq is the same or not. What you really need to see to figure out range at a particular speed is the Wh/km.

It should be linear! If you drive at a constant speed from 100% to 95% your distance times 20 should be your total range at that speed, although it obviously isn't as precise as going from 100% to 5% at that speed

Driving from full to (almost) empty, disregarding speedo / guesso / Wh indication and just looking at time + odo before and after should give much more accurate reading of range and average speed.

160km/h real speed is indicated in some cars as 160km/h, in others as 180km/h. Both would be fully compliant with the regulations...

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

It should be linear! If you drive at a constant speed from 100% to 95% your distance times 20 should be your total range at that speed, although it obviously isn't as precise as going from 100% to 5% at that speed

In the 24 kWh leaf it is most certainly not linear.

cros13

ELM327 wrote: »

In the 24 kWh leaf it is most certainly not linear.

+1

unkel

I know it isn't but it should be

In the mean time, best not to trust it or the guessometer. Was that last term not invented for the Leaf?

When I test drove it, it seemed to behave. But when I put my foot down hard a few times it lost 20km in about 1km

ELM327

I regularly leave my house with 20-30 km more on the guessometer than I have ever achieved in even the most hypermiling of driving. It's not so much a guessometer as a "wrong because I am overoptimistic"-ometer

KCross

My guess is that Nissan made a design decision to make the % non-linear to reduce the risk of running out of power along with the fact that it over-reads the speed by ~10%.

Its "cheating" but its in the users best interest I suppose.

If you want to see the true figures you need to look at LeafSpy.

45 % in instrument cluster is just over 50 percent of battery remaining if I remember correctly checking my 24 kWh car with LeafSpy. When the VLBW kicks in at around 7 percent my car at least can still go another 10 kilometers when driven carefully before the turtle mode. The turtle allowed another few kilometers (3 if I remember it right) before shutdown. The car should be driven like an egg between your shoe and the pedal at low battery level to maximize the range. The car will shutdown early if it detects any of the cells getting below the safe voltage. When driven really carefully during VLBW the drain/load induced voltage sag is minimized and you get more watt hours out before the voltage goes too low and the car shuts down.

I have actually never bothered driving without heating. As the GOM will always show the expected range left and the nav shows the distance to the charger just make sure you always have at least a few extra kilometers of buffer. If the buffer at level road starts to close towards 5 km just reduce your speed by 5 km/h. I suspect that cycling the heating on an off might actually be worse for the range than just having it on permanently. Just leave it at low constant setting in auto mode. The heating will automatically enter to a low drain mode after the low battery warning anyway.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

My guess is that Nissan made a design decision to make the % non-linear to reduce the risk of running out of power along with the fact that it over-reads the speed by ~10%.

Its "cheating" but its in the users best interest I suppose.

That's patronising. I'd prefer all instruments to be accurate (like you typically get in a Porsche or BMW). That said, I think the turtle mode is a good idea. Is it reliable? As in when it comes on, performance is severely restricted and you have at the very least 2km left or something like that?

I'm not aware if other EVs have something similar? Ioniq?

KCross

unkel wrote: »

That's patronising. I'd prefer all instruments to be accurate (like you typically get in a Porsche or BMW). That said, I think the turtle mode is a good idea. Is it reliable? As in when it comes on, performance is severely restricted and you have at the very least 2km left or something like that?

I'm not aware if other EVs have something similar? Ioniq?

You could look at it as patronising. I didnt take it personally myself!

The km's remaining that you see in an ICE car is pessimistic as well for the same reason. Think of it as a reserve.

But the 10% over-read on the speedo is a bit too much for my liking.

The turtle mode is not an exact science either. If you draw high power for even a short period of time it will hit turtle well before the 2 or 3km.

Turtle (apparently its actually a tortoise!) is really only meant to be used to get you off the road to a safe place rather than get you to a charger.

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

That's patronising. I'd prefer all instruments to be accurate (like you typically get in a Porsche or BMW). That said, I think the turtle mode is a good idea. Is it reliable? As in when it comes on, performance is severely restricted and you have at the very least 2km left or something like that?

I'm not aware if other EVs have something similar? Ioniq?

Turtle mode gave me 2.8-3km of urban driving before complete shut down.
Heavily reduced power.