Is this homework normal for 1st class

v638sg7k1a92bx

Wondering if this would be appropriate maths homework for a six year old in first class. I find that a lot of the homework kids come home with could not be done without the help of a parent https://imgur.com/a/9460s

tupenny

My daughter is in second class and they only started "carrying over" this year.. Wouldn't have had the bottom format of addition last year

Harika

tupenny wrote: »

My daughter is in second class and they only started "carrying over" this year.. Wouldn't have had the bottom format of addition last year

You don't need carry over here. You pick the bigger number and point your finger at the top where 1 to 20 are listed, then you add the lower number and get the result. All results stay below 20 so I assume this is how it is intended.

patricia88

Yeah that's perfectly normal and all children in 1st class would be well able for that at this stage of the year.
It is only addition within 20. All of the sums on that page can be completed with the number line on the top of the page.
Children should be adding with renaming in 1st class but this is not required on this page if you look at the sum as a whole.

tupenny

Ah ok but point still stands about the format; Mine wouldn't have seen it til this year

patricia88

tupenny wrote: »

Ah ok but point still stands about the format; Mine wouldn't have seen it til this year

It is on the curriculum for 1st class so I imagine they had seen it.

tupenny

Well not for homework then!

aratsarse101

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote: »

Wondering if this would be appropriate maths homework for a six year old in first class. I find that a lot of the homework kids come home with could not be done without the help of a parent https://imgur.com/a/9460s

Could the problem be that you have a six year old in first class?

judeboy101

a six year old in first class

that could be the problem

daheff

tupenny wrote: »

My daughter is in second class and they only started "carrying over" this year.. Wouldn't have had the bottom format of addition last year

patricia88 wrote: »

Yeah that's perfectly normal and all children in 1st class would be well able for that at this stage of the year.
It is only addition within 20. All of the sums on that page can be completed with the number line on the top of the page.
Children should be adding with renaming in 1st class but this is not required on this page if you look at the sum as a whole.

I would disagree with this. Not all children would be well able for this. Also my daughter is in second class and this would be the level of homework they get.

aratsarse101 wrote: »

Could the problem be that you have a six year old in first class?

judeboy101 wrote: »

a six year old in first class

that could be the problem

When is this child 7? 6 going on 7 in first class would be at the younger end of the spectrum. Most would be 7 going on 8 (some even 8 going on 9 -I see a lot of eastern european children starting later in school because of language problems and because they would start later back 'home').

ItsShane

If I recall correctly, we started multiplication in 2nd class.
Assuming this is following the same format, it would seem about right.

v638sg7k1a92bx

judeboy101 wrote: »

a six year old in first class

that could be the problem

Going to be 7 in June, the youngest in the class I think.

ccazza

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote: »

Wondering if this would be appropriate maths homework for a six year old in first class. I find that a lot of the homework kids come home with could not be done without the help of a parent https://imgur.com/a/9460s

My son is in 1st class and in the last week he has had 3 numbers to add up. He was carrying over when doing this. Doesn't seem to be a problem for him. He's 7 since November.

rainbowtrout

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote: »

Wondering if this would be appropriate maths homework for a six year old in first class. I find that a lot of the homework kids come home with could not be done without the help of a parent https://imgur.com/a/9460s

The homework is not set based on the age of your child. The homework (and classwork) is set based on what is on the syllabus for first class.

Not the teacher's fault that the child is still 6 and possibly struggling to keep up. It is fairly simple maths at the same time, and a number line is provided to aid the child in counting and addition. I don't see the problem.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote: »

Going to be 7 in June, the youngest in the class I think.

Youngest in my school year had a birthday in July.

It's on the syllabus for first class, your child should be able to do it. If it's a consistent issue that your child cannot do the homework maybe you need to consider that you sent your child to school too early.

evolving_doors

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Youngest in my school year had a birthday in July.

It's on the syllabus for first class, your child should be able to do it. If it's a consistent issue that your child cannot do the homework maybe you need to consider that you sent your child to school too early.

Jeez back up the truck people, the kid is finding it a bit tricky... so what, all children in the one class aren't robots. Some kids take a bit longer than others.
No point in berating a parent about making the 'wrong choice'. The kid will survive. Things are changing now alright with the whole 'not till their 5' thinking... funnily enough I heard David Coleman and the other fella a few years back saying it depends on the child... now they're saying anything less than 5 is too young. My kid was 4 and they're doing fine and one of their friends was 5 and 1/2 and still a bit behind on reading.
I've read on numerous other threads about folk who were told they didn't have the aptitude at things by teachers but wound up studying it in college and learned to enjoy it.

Don't get flustered OP, and dont let your child see you go on a crusade and talk down the teacher. Just have a quiet word with the teacher about your concerns.

With the homework...go back to the number line or use fingers... whatever works. Maybe a piggyback to save up for the cinema (a few extra cent every day). I find Friends who say they are useless at maths begin to get pretty sharp when they play cards for money.
I still remember the few tricky sums I had to rote learn. 7 times tables always got me.. 12 and 12 are 24... kick the teacher out the door . That was my favourite.

rainbowtrout

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Jeez back up the truck people, the kid is finding it a bit tricky... so what, all children in the one class aren't robots. Some kids take a bit longer than others.

True, but the OP's initial reaction is 'the homework is too hard for my 6 year old in first class' which is putting the blame/shifting the responsibility to the school/teacher/syllabus/education system automatically rather than considering
that the child is too young to be able to keep up with first class maths/ homework for a child that age needs to be supervised or checked by a parent and help should be provided when necessary/ if the child has difficulties it may be due to being too young starting school or if the child genuinely has difficulties with the material then the parent should have a chat with the teacher.
Surely parents need to take responsibility for acknowledging their child's abilities and seeing where their strengths and weaknesses are and giving/getting them help if necessary, rather than just saying 'my child can't do the homework, therefore the homework is too hard'?

v638sg7k1a92bx

rainbowtrout wrote: »

True, but the OP's initial reaction is 'the homework is too hard for my 6 year old in first class' which is putting the blame/shifting the responsibility to the school/teacher/syllabus/education system automatically rather than considering
that the child is too young to be able to keep up with first class maths/ homework for a child that age needs to be supervised or checked by a parent and help should be provided when necessary/ if the child has difficulties it may be due to being too young starting school or if the child genuinely has difficulties with the material then the parent should have a chat with the teacher.
Surely parents need to take responsibility for acknowledging their child's abilities and seeing where their strengths and weaknesses are and giving/getting them help if necessary, rather than just saying 'my child can't do the homework, therefore the homework is too hard'?

Thank you for putting those words in my mouth, which I never said. Now going back to my question, my opinion is that a lot of the homework that is coming home cannot be done without the help of a parent?

v638sg7k1a92bx

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Youngest in my school year had a birthday in July.

It's on the syllabus for first class, your child should be able to do it. If it's a consistent issue that your child cannot do the homework maybe you need to consider that you sent your child to school too early.

If you want to turn it into a pissing contest my birthday was in September and I had to wait until I turned 4 before I could start school.

Now going to back to my original question, are you of the opinion that kids should be able to do all their homework without the help of a parent or that a lot of the homework kids are coming home with doesn't or shouldn't need the help of a parent?

Romantic Rose

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote: »

Thank you for putting those words in my mouth, which I never said. Now going back to my question, my opinion is that a lot of the homework that is coming home cannot be done without the help of a parent?

From having taught 1st class before, I would say this would be about right. I think working more independently should happen in the middle of the school and upwards. My parents always sat with us doing our homework when we were younger. Maybe if you think your child is having difficulty with the work, speak to the teacher to see how they're progressing in the classroom. Your child will be tested in a standardised way for the first time in first class so that might throw up any issues there might be.

infogiver

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote: »

Thank you for putting those words in my mouth, which I never said. Now going back to my question, my opinion is that a lot of the homework that is coming home cannot be done without the help of a parent?

These sums are a bit too tricky for a 6 year old. How was your child with the homework in senior infants?

AntoLeary

I currently teach 1st/2nd mixed, and although that is age appropriate work, (1st class should be able to count to 20 according to the curriculum documents) it is a bit tough for homework admitidely.

Romantic Rose

Also, throughout the year I would have given number facts for homework. Does the teacher give these? If not, maybe start with the basics at home and use concrete materials to help.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Romantic Rose wrote: »

From having taught 1st class before, I would say this would be about right. I think working more independently should happen in the middle of the school and upwards. My parents always sat with us doing our homework when we were younger. Maybe if you think your child is having difficulty with the work, speak to the teacher to see how they're progressing in the classroom. Your child will be tested in a standardised way for the first time in first class so that might throw up any issues there might be.

Thanks for your input. My question really comes down to whether parents are expected to do homework with the kids in first class. If that's the case then we're happy to do that.

v638sg7k1a92bx

infogiver wrote: »

These sums are a bit too tricky for a 6 year old. How was your child with the homework in senior infants?

Our kids are in a school where the first two years were more focused around play with homework only once per week.

Romantic Rose

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote: »

Thanks for your input. My question really comes down to whether parents are expected to do homework with the kids in first class. If that's the case then we're happy to do that.

I think you should. Your child will progress better with your help. In first class, the work gets much trickier and they have the extra hour in school to contend with. Help your child with the number facts addition and subtraction, start with +0 (tell him zero is lazy and doesn't do anything) and then move onto +1, e.g., 1+2, 1+4, 1+7etc. Use pasta shells or anything concrete in the house to help. Your child should know these by rote after.

I just googled 1st class maths there and there are lots of resources and games online to help. One was IXL maths which you could use at home. All of this will help with his maths skills.

donkeykong5

Why not keep children in school fir an extra hour each day and GET RID OF HOMEWORK. Hate home work.

Romantic Rose

Also, just looked at the NCCA (national council for curriculum and assessment) and there is a video modelling how a parent could help a child with 1st class maths. Be worth a look. Sorry I can't link on this phone.

Romantic Rose

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Why not keep children in school fir an extra hour each day and GET RID OF HOMEWORK. Hate home work.

Lol, the clue is in the name .

infogiver

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote: »

Our kids are in a school where the first two years were more focused around play with homework only once per week.

My neighbors little girl is in senior infants. She has some 3 letter words to write repeatedly and some simple arithmetic every evening. She is 6 since January.

Mountainsandh

I completely and utterly disagree with Romantic Rose.

Homework should be chosen with the intention that the child is able to complete it independently. If the teacher sets homework that is too difficult, then they should be contacted, and hopefully the work will be adjusted, or the problems addressed in class.

My children are 9 and 11.
I have never sat down with them to do the homework.

I am hovering nearby, in case I see them struggling, or they ask for help.
If they do, I guide them in the right direction, then off I go do something else. A quick check on what they know, a quick quiz on tables or spellings is ok, but actually having to train myself into a method, and re-teaching my child at home is 100% not on.

I know of many parents who practically do the homework for their child every evening. Imo it is utterly counterproductive.

Every child should learn to work independently, and to make mistakes.

When a parent sits down with the child, they teach them that
a) they are not deemed capable of working by themselves
b) they are not expected to solve problems/work on a problem by themselves.
c) Mistakes have to be avoided at all costs to keep the teacher happy.

When they reach secondary school, these kids avoid situations where they have to work on their own, and are likely to make mistakes.
They are lost when an exercise is challenging and they are expected to work independently. They simply don't know how to even attempt an answer.
They are not as adept at coping with these situations; it affects their self-confidence to the point where they would rather get in trouble for not doing the homework, or not completing a test or an exercise, rather than get it wrong.


OP, my advice would very simply be to contact the teacher, have a chat about what his/her expectations seem to be for your child, and let him or her know that from what you see at home, the child may not be as ready to tackle this on their own as the teacher thinks.

I have done so on several occasions, not being a nuisance either, but just to let the teacher know that we'd hit a bit of turbulence, without my child getting in trouble for it.
Teachers just need the feedback so they can adjust the work, or target classroom work to deal with issues, that's all.

If a teacher does not take the feedback on board, and adjust their teaching accordingly, then I'd start getting more reactive (not to say angry) about it.

donkeykong5

8.45am to 4.00pm for 5 days a week is plenty of time for school. Let kids come home after all that and relax and have dinner either watch TV or play video games. Life is too short for bloody homework.

Romantic Rose

I never said don't let them work more independently, I believe this should happen later in the school when good practices are established in the child. The parent is basically taking on the role of the teacher at home in 1st class. Things like reminding a child not to reverse the number 2, asking the child how they got the answer, getting the child to use their mathematical language by asking questions.

I'm not saying smother the child but guide them in the right direction.

Like I said, the parental involvement videos on the NCCA website are very helpful with this. The parent is gentle guiding the child through the work and also providing lots of opportunities to use concrete materials be that with money or length or weight etc. Great to see these concepts being used in the context of the home in a real life context.

Also, if a child is absolutely flying through homework, there's an issue there too. I teach children who take no care in their work and don't know how check over their work either. Basically they see the product and not the process.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Romantic Rose wrote: »

I never said don't let them work more independently, I believe this should happen later in the school when good practices are established in the child. The parent is basically taking on the role of the teacher at home in 1st class. Things like reminding a child not to reverse the number 2, asking the child how they got the answer, getting the child to use their mathematical language by asking questions.

I'm not saying smother the child but guide them in the right direction.

Like I said, the parental involvement videos on the NCCA website are very helpful with this. The parent is gentle guiding the child through the work and also providing lots of opportunities to use concrete materials be that with money or length or weight etc. Great to see these concepts being used in the context of the home in a real life context.

Also, if a child is absolutely flying through homework, there's an issue there too. I teach children who take no care in their work and don't know how check over their work either. Basically they see the product and not the process.

Thanks a million for the advice, it's very useful.

Here is the link to the NCCA videos for anyone else who wants them http://www.ncca.ie/en/Curriculum_and_Assessment/Parents/Primary/Maths/Parents-helping-their-children.html

byhookorbycrook

I actually did that with 1st today, no problems, they used the number line at the top or some cubes (pasta works well for this at home.)
It seems that the OP's child is finding it tough. I'd mention that to the teacher.

Mountainsandh

Romantic Rose wrote: »

I never said don't let them work more independently, I believe this should happen later in the school when good practices are established in the child. The parent is basically taking on the role of the teacher at home in 1st class. Things like reminding a child not to reverse the number 2, asking the child how they got the answer, getting the child to use their mathematical language by asking questions.
.

Thing is, parents are not teachers.
Primary educators yes, teachers not.
That the parent should take on the job of teacher at home is ridiculous.
In that case, as another poster said above, why not keep children and teachers in school for another hour every evening ?

The transition to let the child work independently "later...when good practices are established" will certainly happen with a certain set of parents, and that's great.
Unfortunately, I deal with secondary school children and can attest that it's all or nothing for a lot of children, and parental "guidance" (ie doing their homework for them) will stop abruptly when the work becomes too challenging for parents' abilities, and the child will be stranded with no method, and little understanding of how to approach homework.

And as you probably well know, parental abilities thresholds are sometimes reached pretty early in the child's school career.

Imo the videos are just that : an attempt to train parents to become supplementary teachers at home. How many parents are realistically going to watch these ? How many parents will (realistically) have the opportunity to sit down quietly with one child and work in such a manner, for every subject, with possibly another 2 or 3 other children (or more) in need of academic help, and a toddler or baby to contend with ?




Tickers I'm glad you found the videos useful, and hope you have that opportunity, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here because I'm on the receiving end of plenty of "not so successful" scenarios.

Romantic Rose

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Thing is, parents are not teachers.
Primary educators yes, teachers not.
That the parent should take on the job of teacher at home is ridiculous.
In that case, as another poster said above, why not keep children and teachers in school for another hour every evening ?

The transition to let the child work independently "later...when good practices are established" will certainly happen with a certain set of parents, and that's great.
Unfortunately, I deal with secondary school children and can attest that it's all or nothing for a lot of children, and parental "guidance" (ie doing their homework for them) will stop abruptly when the work becomes too challenging for parents' abilities, and the child will be stranded with no method, and little understanding of how to approach homework.

And as you probably well know, parental abilities thresholds are sometimes reached pretty early in the child's school career.

Imo the videos are just that : an attempt to train parents to become supplementary teachers at home. How many parents are realistically going to watch these ? How many parents will (realistically) have the opportunity to sit down quietly with one child and work in such a manner, for every subject, with possibly another 2 or 3 other children (or more) in need of academic help, and a toddler or baby to contend with ?




Tickers I'm glad you found the videos useful, and hope you have that opportunity, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here because I'm on the receiving end of plenty of "not so successful" scenarios.

We will agree to disagree on the role of the parent in their child's life. I do not agree with pass the buck parenting, the amount of times I've heard teachers complain that they're parenting more and more is too much to be a coincidence. When will the excuses stop for people. You decide to have a child, you should do everything to help them succeed. For the record I don't agree with helicopter parenting but give your child the tools and support to succeed.

On that note, I see WIT have introduced an online course to help parents with secondary school maths. Also, there are plenty of resource centre nationwide who run courses to help parents with their child's maths work. No more excuses.

implausible

Mountainsandh wrote:

Thing is, parents are not teachers. Primary educators yes, teachers not. That the parent should take on the job of teacher at home is ridiculous.

Nobody is saying that they should! Sitting with a small child while they do homework, asking them to check something a second time, listening to them while they do reading, testing them on simple arithmetic or checking phonics - that's not teaching. If it was, it'd be an awful handy job. Doing these things is supporting the learning that has taken place in the class.

OP, if your child is finding the work too difficult, then speak to the teacher. Perhaps she can differentiate for your child and your child might not be the only one having difficulty and s/he can change the work.

Mountainsandh

Romantic Rose wrote: »

We will agree to disagree on the role of the parent in their child's life. I do not agree with pass the buck parenting, the amount of times I've heard teachers complain that they're parenting more and more is too much to be a coincidence. When will the excuses stop for people. You decide to have a child, you should do everything to help them succeed. For the record I don't agree with helicopter parenting but give your child the tools and support to succeed.
.

I agree with this.
And of course I agree that a little help, some guidance and support with homework are normal.

However, this discussion as far as I can tell is about primary school homework. It is academic in nature, and therefore it is not a case of a parent "passing the buck". The buck is firmly in the teacher's corner when it comes to academic matters, for most families.

This is not about personal hygiene, general knowledge, manners, personal development. This is about a kid's maths homework.

Being curious, analytic, persevering, observant, and being able to draw conclusions or form hypotheses, these are things that can also, and should be learned at home or out and about, with parents.
One could argue (and it is being argued, as in France for example, where written homework at Primary level is frowned upon) that every minute that the child spends struggling on homework is a minute taken from opportunities to learn the above. Should parents be trained to help the child with homework, in that perspective, or rather encouraged to parent more adequately aside from academical matters ?

If I, as a teacher, give a child homework that they are struggling with (as in the OP), that is overly challenging, that is going to take them too long, then I have not done my job of either differentiating, explaining, or rehearsing properly.

I'm not saying the teacher should hit it right every time, and that's why I advised OP to contact the teacher, as they might need that bit of feedback to adjust homework accordingly.

Mountainsandh

implausible wrote: »

Nobody is saying that they should! Sitting with a small child while they do homework, asking them to check something a second time, listening to them while they do reading, testing them on simple arithmetic or checking phonics - that's not teaching. If it was, it'd be an awful handy job. Doing these things is supporting the learning that has taken place in the class.
.

The OP's statement hints at more than the above :

I find that a lot of the homework kids come home with could not be done without the help of a parent

This is not listening while they read, or testing on simple arithmetic.

sword1

school-then-vs-now_o_650199.jpg

wirelessdude01

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote:

Thanks for your input. My question really comes down to whether parents are expected to do homework with the kids in first class. If that's the case then we're happy to do that.

You should help with homework without actually doing it for them. A child in 1st class should be able to do that. If not do a few examples with them on a mini whiteboard and see if they get it then. If they don't then don't force it and write a note to teacher explaining the difficulty.

TheDriver

donkeykong5 wrote: »

8.45am to 4.00pm for 5 days a week is plenty of time for school. Let kids come home after all that and relax and have dinner either watch TV or play video games. Life is too short for bloody homework.

You go to a guitar lesson but don't do practice
You go to yoga but don't bother with solo exercises at home
You go to hurling training but don't puck a ball around at home
You love your nightclass but don't do any of it at home
You learn key life skills such as counting/spelling/various subjects but you don't practice them at home.....
The learning environment stems far from the formal setting of initial learning and into a necessary practice realm of practice/recall/master

donkeykong5

TheDriver wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

8.45am to 4.00pm for 5 days a week is plenty of time for school. Let kids come home after all that and relax and have dinner either watch TV or play video games. Life is too short for bloody homework.

You go to a guitar lesson but don't do practice
You go to yoga but don't bother with solo exercises at home
You go to hurling training but don't puck a ball around at home
You love your nightclass but don't do any of it at home
You learn key life skills such as counting/spelling/various subjects but you don't practice them at home.....
The learning environment stems far from the formal setting of initial learning and into a necessary practice realm of practice/recall/master

You obviously missed my point completely. All the above are courses that kids would enjoy doing. So would have no problem doing at home. Seriously who really enjoys studying geography or irish or maths at home. After doing it all day long. You obviously have no children ....who have other plans for their family time at home. Teachers are paid enough to teach the kids what they need to learn in school. Life is short enough without having bloody homework as part of it.

Mountainsandh

practice/recall/master

If the homework mentioned in OP was practice/recall/master, it should not have needed the intervention of an adult, which was the whole point of OP if I recall right.