Livestock importing from Switzerland

Feirmeoir beag

I'm hoping to get some answers and advice here with regards a venture I'm planning on carrying out with a partner at the end of the year, which involves transportation of livestock from Switzerland to Ireland. I've seen the livestock as well as their registration pedigree/breeding papers. I would really like these animals in order to introduce and produce some superior, quality beef to the Irish market. I wouldn't do this so likely and no disrespect to the fabulous meat we as an Irish nation already produce, but I've researched this for the past year now and I firmly believe we can add even more strength to the country's high profile of good beef with these particular line of pedigree.
My questions are as follows:
1. As Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but are in the single market, can livestock be purchased and brought into the EU and therefore Ireland as an EU member.
2. If question 1 is not an issue, is there any additional checks for livestock at border controls above the ordinary regular requirements that vets and customs need to check with necessary paperwork for ports?
3. Do you know of, or had any experience of a good livestock transport company who have transported from Switzerland to Ireland previously or would be willing to if questions 1 & 2 are still runners.
4. What kind of cost would I be looking at to transport approx. 6 yearling cattle from Switzerland to Ireland.?

Any support on this would be greatly appreciated.

Feirmeoir beag i gContae Chorcaí.i

Bellview

Speak with dept of ag to get the right answer..on costs if you speak with folks delivering to eastern Europe as you might get good rates on the back load. Maxwell s would be worth speaking with

Feirmeoir beag

Bellview wrote: »

Speak with dept of ag to get the right answer..on costs if you speak with folks delivering to eastern Europe as you might get good rates on the back load. Maxwell s would be worth speaking with

Thanks Bellview. Do you think I'd need to arrange an appointment with the dept of Ag or would you think it's a case of just emailing the debt?
With regards Maxwells, have you used them yourself before to say you mention them?
I like your thinking of getting livestock back on the return leg of a truckers journey.

Muckit

Sounds interesting. What breeds of cattle are you farming at the moment?

Who2

I personally think bring in straws, not cattle. We've a serious advantage on health being an island. Why risk bringing in new disease.

bogman_bass

Or embryos

It can be done but because they are coming from outside the EU there are more hoops and paperwork

What breed are you looking at? Swiss cattle are better known as duel purpose rather than pure beef

Bellview

Feirmeoir beag wrote:

Thanks Bellview. Do you think I'd need to arrange an appointment with the dept of Ag or would you think it's a case of just emailing the debt? With regards Maxwells, have you used them yourself before to say you mention them? I like your thinking of getting livestock back on the return leg of a truckers journey.

I would give dept a call I would know maxwell as he has taken cattle for export as part of larger consignment. I have found him good overall. He has exported dairy and beef to eastern Europe so he might get the back load in.
To other posters point though check on disease as a lot of foreign imported cattle have brought trouble here but saying that we might have all diseases in already

Feirmeoir beag

I'd rather not disclose the cattle breed while my business the plan is in it's infancy if thats OK guys. I currently have Angus, with a few Hereford and Belties. I take the point on introducing disease risks, but I've seen the health of these animals already for myself and with the vet checks at the Border Inspection Port (BIP), I would've thought this would be a quite robust system in place to prevent disease. Unfortunately for me with the pedigree I'm after right now, straws and embryos are not an option. I'm hoping the Dept. will be supportive and assist me when I call them this week.

Feirmeoir beag

bogman_bass wrote: »

Or embryos

It can be done but because they are coming from outside the EU there are more hoops and paperwork

What breed are you looking at? Swiss cattle are better known as duel purpose rather than pure beef

Thanks for the vote of confidence that it can be done.

pedigree 6

I would be wary of buying and bringing in Swiss cattle.
Swiss cattle are well known for their suicidal tendencies.
So just something to bear in mind.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209638/Scientists-baffled-suicidal-cows-throw-cliff-Switzerland.html

I've a few happy with life Irish hol/fr and montyX yearling heifers for sale if you're interested.:D

Who2

Feirmeoir beag wrote: »

I'd rather not disclose the cattle breed while my business the plan is in it's infancy if thats OK guys. I currently have Angus, with a few Hereford and Belties. I take the point on introducing disease risks, but I've seen the health of these animals already for myself and with the vet checks at the Border Inspection Port (BIP), I would've thought this would be a quite robust system in place to prevent disease. Unfortunately for me with the pedigree I'm after right now, straws and embryos are not an option. I'm hoping the Dept. will be supportive and assist me when I call them this week.

It's the diseases they don't know about yet, that would worry me.

_Brian

My view would be that the risks outweigh any potential reward.

As someone said there's only so much that's checked for and it's happened before that we've infected the national herd by introducing animals from abroad for breeding.

If you look at where the industry is going it's not another breed option we need, even for neiche markets there are enough alternatives out there.

kowtow

I wouldn't be too worried about the health of Swiss breeds, certainly the mountain breeds, from my experience.

The Swiss cows I know, though, are very much hefted to one particular area of grazing and have no doubt evolved to thrive on the seasonal mix of grasses at different altitudes. I wonder would they fulfil their potential quite so well on intensive rotational grazing of leys which are almost a monocrop?

That may of course not be anything like what you have in mind, and good luck with it anyway.

Don't forget you're going to need big bells with their names on if you want them to feel at home.

Feirmeoir beag

Thanks to all of you who've replied to my post. I've got a great bunch of well knowledgeable folks behind me on this. I think the market is constantly evolving, as is society and by that we must always strive to move with it whether we like it or not. I have long tired of all the moaners out there who want the government and Europe to keep funding them. I can understand some of the concerns and frustrations put forward by some farmers, but most of them are complaints that would embarrass their forefathers who had the imagination and initiative to build farms from absolutely nothing. Today's farmer wants to be keeping up with the Jones all the time and the Jones if you look, without having to look too hard, are the cute boys. They keep their heads down, they get innovative on their farms, they graft like all the other farmers too, but in a more head on way and you don't hear them moaning. There's always going to be niche markets. It's just the nature of life at any given time or place because of changing society. Whether it's global warming, brexits, grexits, trumps, there'll always be some political and economic turbulence to contend with. I am merely just taking my initiative now, to do what I can and battle on against what I don't deny are difficult times as a farmer, but farming was never suppose to be easy and I'm certainly not going to be waiting around for the government or Europe to hand it to me on a plate year after year as some want it. It's my own personal belief, that we must all be ready for that one day when the EU breaks up/down, whatever way you like to call it. I don't want to make millions - I just want to protect my farm, my livelihood, my future and pass it on as it was done to me. I'm seeing far too many farmers all around me lose what they have bit by bit. Ironically enough, they so happen to be what I call the platinum moaners who wantd everything handed to them. And interestingly enough, they're the same farmers whose sons and daughters don't want to get into farming. Would you stay around a moaner who's glass is half empty all the time... We've become a soft nation who needs to wake up or else we'll sleep permanently at the mercy of the vultures. I'm not going to take any bank breaking risks and I certainly won't take any risk that will endanger our great international reputation of fine agricultural produce right now, so I thank all of you for your advice which I'm taking on board. I also plan on staying true to where my bread is buttered with our traditional farming, but I just want to try something new as well as that and if it works, then great, I'll have been the pioneer who altered the way we farm our beef of the future and you were the folks that supported me in that. If it doesn't work, then at least I'll have been able to reflect and say "nothing ventured, nothing gained". Switzerland regulates quite similarly to EU standards, so I'm going to seriously weigh up the risks in evaluating if it would be any different to an importation from an EU member state or one of extreme similarities such as Switzerland.
I could press for Embryos from a herd I like in the US as an alternative. Any comments on this post or further advice on my original post will be really appreciated. Thanks guys.

pedigree 6

Feirmeoir beag wrote: »

Thanks to all of you who've replied to my post. I've got a great bunch of well knowledgeable folks behind me on this. I think the market is constantly evolving, as is society and by that we must always strive to move with it whether we like it or not. I have long tired of all the moaners out there who want the government and Europe to keep funding them. I can understand some of the concerns and frustrations put forward by some farmers, but most of them are complaints that would embarrass their forefathers who had the imagination and initiative to build farms from absolutely nothing. Today's farmer wants to be keeping up with the Jones all the time and the Jones if you look, without having to look too hard, are the cute boys. They keep their heads down, they get innovative on their farms, they graft like all the other farmers too, but in a more head on way and you don't hear them moaning. There's always going to be niche markets. It's just the nature of life at any given time or place because of changing society. Whether it's global warming, brexits, grexits, trumps, there'll always be some political and economic turbulence to contend with. I am merely just taking my initiative now, to do what I can and battle on against what I don't deny are difficult times as a farmer, but farming was never suppose to be easy and I'm certainly not going to be waiting around for the government or Europe to hand it to me on a plate year after year as some want it. It's my own personal belief, that we must all be ready for that one day when the EU breaks up/down, whatever way you like to call it. I don't want to make millions - I just want to protect my farm, my livelihood, my future and pass it on as it was done to me. I'm seeing far too many farmers all around me lose what they have bit by bit. Ironically enough, they so happen to be what I call the platinum moaners who wantd everything handed to them. And interestingly enough, they're the same farmers whose sons and daughters don't want to get into farming. Would you stay around a moaner who's glass is half empty all the time... We've become a soft nation who needs to wake up or else we'll sleep permanently at the mercy of the vultures. I'm not going to take any bank breaking risks and I certainly won't take any risk that will endanger our great international reputation of fine agricultural produce right now, so I thank all of you for your advice which I'm taking on board. I also plan on staying true to where my bread is buttered with our traditional farming, but I just want to try something new as well as that and if it works, then great, I'll have been the pioneer who altered the way we farm our beef of the future and you were the folks that supported me in that. If it doesn't work, then at least I'll have been able to reflect and say "nothing ventured, nothing gained". Switzerland regulates quite similarly to EU standards, so I'm going to seriously weigh up the risks in evaluating if it would be any different to an importation from an EU member state or one of extreme similarities such as Switzerland.
I could press for Embryos from a herd I like in the US as an alternative. Any comments on this post or further advice on my original post will be really appreciated. Thanks guys.

Now there's a long post.:pac:

Good luck in life and farming.
Life and farming is full of broken eggs. But you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

_Brian

Feirmeoir beag wrote: »

Thanks to all of you who've replied to my post. I've got a great bunch of well knowledgeable folks behind me on this. I think the market is constantly evolving, as is society and by that we must always strive to move with it whether we like it or not. I have long tired of all the moaners out there who want the government and Europe to keep funding them. I can understand some of the concerns and frustrations put forward by some farmers, but most of them are complaints that would embarrass their forefathers who had the imagination and initiative to build farms from absolutely nothing. Today's farmer wants to be keeping up with the Jones all the time and the Jones if you look, without having to look too hard, are the cute boys. They keep their heads down, they get innovative on their farms, they graft like all the other farmers too, but in a more head on way and you don't hear them moaning. There's always going to be niche markets. It's just the nature of life at any given time or place because of changing society. Whether it's global warming, brexits, grexits, trumps, there'll always be some political and economic turbulence to contend with. I am merely just taking my initiative now, to do what I can and battle on against what I don't deny are difficult times as a farmer, but farming was never suppose to be easy and I'm certainly not going to be waiting around for the government or Europe to hand it to me on a plate year after year as some want it. It's my own personal belief, that we must all be ready for that one day when the EU breaks up/down, whatever way you like to call it. I don't want to make millions - I just want to protect my farm, my livelihood, my future and pass it on as it was done to me. I'm seeing far too many farmers all around me lose what they have bit by bit. Ironically enough, they so happen to be what I call the platinum moaners who wantd everything handed to them. And interestingly enough, they're the same farmers whose sons and daughters don't want to get into farming. Would you stay around a moaner who's glass is half empty all the time... We've become a soft nation who needs to wake up or else we'll sleep permanently at the mercy of the vultures. I'm not going to take any bank breaking risks and I certainly won't take any risk that will endanger our great international reputation of fine agricultural produce right now, so I thank all of you for your advice which I'm taking on board. I also plan on staying true to where my bread is buttered with our traditional farming, but I just want to try something new as well as that and if it works, then great, I'll have been the pioneer who altered the way we farm our beef of the future and you were the folks that supported me in that. If it doesn't work, then at least I'll have been able to reflect and say "nothing ventured, nothing gained". Switzerland regulates quite similarly to EU standards, so I'm going to seriously weigh up the risks in evaluating if it would be any different to an importation from an EU member state or one of extreme similarities such as Switzerland.
I could press for Embryos from a herd I like in the US as an alternative. Any comments on this post or further advice on my original post will be really appreciated. Thanks guys.

You could always turn your hand to writing a book, half way there now

Kat1170

If Switzerland is classed as outside the EU, would the cattle be subject to a quarantine period. Just another possible cost to take into consideration.

Feirmeoir beag

Quarantine is a very good point and hopefully someone here can verify that. I can ask the Dept. anyway. Thanks for that Kat1170.

ganmo

Feirmeoir beag wrote: »

Quarantine is a very good point and hopefully someone here can verify that. I can ask the Dept. anyway. Thanks for that Kat1170.

i would seriously look at importing embryos, transport costs would be a fraction of transporting the animals and disease risk would be lower too

Sheep breeder

Any animal that is being exported has to pass blood test requirements of importing country to option a health cert to move and is put up on the F trace system of forward notification and as soon they arrive they are vet inspected.
The best place to start is kildare street and animal health to get the up to date requirements for imports such as TB, blue tongue, scrapie, etc
When we import we have used MD Workman in Monaghan who do a lot of imports and exports of pedigree stock and Hilary is a serious lady at the game and best for price and handling stock.

Feirmeoir beag

Anyone have experience in bringing in embryos from the US? I know a guy with a super pedigree holstein herd up north who brought in 10 embryos from the US. He said 7 hit and he was delighted. It was bar chat at a wedding and I might give him a shout again to understand how he went about it, but being from NI, he might,'ve had different channels than the Republic. I am open to all opinions on Embryos and as I say my next best option is in the US after Switzerland.

Base price

FB - here is a useful link to the EU rules regarding the Trade (classed as movement between EU member states) and Importation (from non member states) of bovines.
DAFM may have additional health checks/requirements?? I have not read the rules. As others have posted contact DAFM in Kildare Street for definite information.
https://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/live_animals/bovine_en
Edit: there are several links within the document that may help to guide you.

st1979

What's the story nowadays if you go to sell imported cull cows in mart or factory. Used to be hard sold when people had Dutch holsteins years ago. Is it still as bad

Base price

st1979 wrote: »

What's the story nowadays if you go to sell imported cull cows in mart or factory. Used to be hard sold when people had Dutch holsteins years ago. Is it still as bad

As far as I know there are only a couple of factories prepared to handle them and at a reduced price relative to their Irish born counterparts.

kowtow

OP .. it's difficult to get a sense from your post of what you are planning so my advice here may be way off the mark... but for what it is worth (and I have some relevant interest here as I moved here from Switzerland in order to produce cheese from the family farm).

First, you may be over rating the importance of secrecy. In general farmhouse producers cooperate massively with each other and everybody benefits. In my previous career we didn't answer the phone without a non disclosure agreement signed in blood and gold but the real innovators in food seem to be the exact opposite. The ideas that are bringing consumers back to farms and profits to farmers really don't seem to be revolutionary, if anything they draw on the strong traditions of the past. And there really is nothing new under the sun - if something hasn't been done before more often than not there is a good reason.

Which brings me to my next point. Great food is a product of terroir. Alpine cheeses are hard, round, and cooked because it's easier to get heat up a mountain where the herd is grazing than salt, and one or the other is needed if you want to bring the cheese to the valley to sell. So much of the history of Irish indigenous food has been lost but that apparently blank canvas doesn't mean that we should be creating products which don't reflect the environment that gave birth to them...

I see a lot of supposedly innovative irish artisan products which are sadly gimmicky... you don't need to be different, just true to the unique food which every farm produces, itself the product of generations of families which came before us.

The debate about what makes artisan food and farming niches special and valuable is a fascinating one... if you get a moment look out a book called the "life of cheese" which is about much more than cheese and is very thought provoking.

As i said I may be wide of the mark and I applaud both your reasoning and your determination.

st1979

Base price wrote:

As far as I know there are only a couple of factories prepared to handle them and at a reduced price relative to their Irish born counterparts.

This alone would sway me from buying imported cows. As they are nearly always costing nearer top end prices and then you have to sell at bottom end. Although her progeny will be Irish. But if you import embyro's you won't suffer this

patsy_mccabe

OP, I gather from your last long post that you are being a bit defensive of criticism from the contributors here.
I'd listen to Kowtow on this. I'm sure what you are thinking of doing has been thought of before. Why not come out with it here and you'll get advice worth considering.

Feirmeoir beag

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

OP, I gather from your last long post that you are being a bit defensive of criticism from the contributors here.
I'd listen to Kowtow on this. I'm sure what you are thinking of doing has been thought of before. Why not come out with it here and you'll get advice worth considering.

I'm not being defensive at all. Anyone who ever wasn't ever open and man enough to take criticism never did any good really. I haven't received criticism at all in this forum. If anything it's a lot if positivity and others people's opinions as to how they would do what I want to do.
Kowtow is unfortunately off the mark a little. My interest is in beef and his post mainly focuses on dairy.
It's fair to say that what I'm trying to do actually hasn't been done before and all I need to let people know is that it's a cow in a country outside the eu but in the single market.

Feirmeoir beag

kowtow wrote: »

OP .. it's difficult to get a sense from your post of what you are planning so my advice here may be way off the mark... but for what it is worth (and I have some relevant interest here as I moved here from Switzerland in order to produce cheese from the family farm).

First, you may be over rating the importance of secrecy. In general farmhouse producers cooperate massively with each other and everybody benefits. In my previous career we didn't answer the phone without a non disclosure agreement signed in blood and gold but the real innovators in food seem to be the exact opposite. The ideas that are bringing consumers back to farms and profits to farmers really don't seem to be revolutionary, if anything they draw on the strong traditions of the past. And there really is nothing new under the sun - if something hasn't been done before more often than not there is a good reason.

Which brings me to my next point. Great food is a product of terroir. Alpine cheeses are hard, round, and cooked because it's easier to get heat up a mountain where the herd is grazing than salt, and one or the other is needed if you want to bring the cheese to the valley to sell. So much of the history of Irish indigenous food has been lost but that apparently blank canvas doesn't mean that we should be creating products which don't reflect the environment that gave birth to them...

I see a lot of supposedly innovative irish artisan products which are sadly gimmicky... you don't need to be different, just true to the unique food which every farm produces, itself the product of generations of families which came before us.

The debate about what makes artisan food and farming niches special and valuable is a fascinating one... if you get a moment look out a book called the "life of cheese" which is about much more than cheese and is very thought provoking.

As i said I may be wide of the mark and I applaud both your reasoning and your determination.

Thank you for this post and your well wishes to me in my endeavour. I'm only being secretive in the breed and pedigree. I don't think this matters for the forum as my original post is just wondering if cattle can be imported from Switzerland and if anyone has experience in do so previously. I'm in the beef game and not dairy. I really admire your venture though. You've kept your beliefs true to yourself and based it all on the simplicity of traditional ways. Good luck to you.

davidk1394

Bringing in the embryos is a good idea. Was talking to a dairy farmer near Thurles yesterday who brought over embryos of American Holstein cows. I have no idea of the cost or what's involved. Would it cost much to bring over cows from Germany? Thinking of bringing in a few fleckveih cows in a few years

pedroeibar1

Feirmeoir beag wrote: »

I'm not being defensive at all. Anyone who ever wasn't ever open and man enough to take criticism never did any good really. I haven't received criticism at all in this forum. If anything it's a lot if positivity and others people's opinions as to how they would do what I want to do.
Kowtow is unfortunately off the mark a little. My interest is in beef and his post mainly focuses on dairy.
It's fair to say that what I'm trying to do actually hasn't been done before and all I need to let people know is that it's a cow in a country outside the eu but in the single market.

Not much criticism so far because you have not posted anything of substance. So here is some positive critisism. Were any business looking to import product it would do the sums first and then investigate the 'rules' to see if there were additional costs. You have supplied us with nothing.

You are talking importing beef from Switzerland, a country that imports beef and exports dairy. (Who ever heard of Swiss beef being a premium product?) Then all of a sudden you jump to the US and embryos. I'd guess you never shipped cattle further than down the road - if even that far! Have you any idea of what is involved in the transport of animals over a long distance? Have you any idea of what number constitutes a truckload? Have you any idea of rest period for animals while in shipment? Fifteen hundred for the ferry alone, which means a cost of €250 per animal for your six? What are you going to do with the end product? How will you get it to market? Where? By whom?
I think you should have the courtesy to post some meaningful information in response to the above because right now your posts are walter mitty-esque and appear to show that you have done no homework!

The part time boy

Some people seem to be getting very stressed because the f b is not telling us all the details of his plan.

That's where the negativity is coming from . Not that it's a bad idea but people seemed frustrated info his been withheld .

Which Is a bit silly .

His asked us about moving cattle . His not actally asked us for advise on his idea .

Prople can ask what his up to . But if he choices not to tell us that's his own business.

Again his asked advise on moving cattle from outside Eu. His not asked is his idea a good idea.

Remimber Curiosity killed the cat

pedroeibar1

The part time boy wrote: »

Some people seem to be getting very stressed because the f b is not telling us all the details of his plan.

That's where the negativity is coming from . Not that it's a bad idea but people seemed frustrated info his been withheld .

Which Is a bit silly .

His asked us about moving cattle . His not actally asked us for advise on his idea .

Prople can ask what his up to . But if he choices not to tell us that's his own business.

Again his asked advise on moving cattle from outside Eu. His not asked is his idea a good idea.

Remimber Curiosity killed the cat

OP started multiple threads looking for advice, one over on Business that was closed. How hard is it to phone one of the several cattle transporters named earlier and the D Ag and ask 'How much and how possible?' How many people in Ireland have imported BEEF from Switzerland?

Feirmeoir beag

The part time boy wrote: »

Some people seem to be getting very stressed because the f b is not telling us all the details of his plan.

That's where the negativity is coming from . Not that it's a bad idea but people seemed frustrated info his been withheld .

Which Is a bit silly .

His asked us about moving cattle . His not actally asked us for advise on his idea .

Prople can ask what his up to . But if he choices not to tell us that's his own business.

Again his asked advise on moving cattle from outside Eu. His not asked is his idea a good idea.

Remimber Curiosity killed the cat

Thank you!! I appreciate you recognising the unnecessary stress that's come on some people in this form and for correctly identifying that my original post is merely related to gaining anyone's experience of importing bovine from Switzerland which is a non eu member. I politely responded to those wishing to those curious of my business plan of course which I'd rather not disclose just yet for obvious reasons of marketing protection but one day I will and you will all know what it is. Some of Pedro's comments have been amusing actually missing my point. My closed post on business was started there in error, hence why it's here and closed in business now. I intend to call the dept and some of the aforementioned transporters. So I'm getting the information I need thank you and boards has worked for my, in large by you the majority of others who are a little more considerate and respectful of my business venture. Thanks again part time boy! And yes curiosity did kill the little pussy cat.

st1979

Actually one phone call to David Clarke would answer all your questions. I was approached by a friend who had a contact abroad with a hairbrain proposal looking to export dairy stock from here. Was potentially very lucrative. rang David Clarke who knew all the potential pitfalls and how to overcome them. And the right questions to ask of the foreign buyer to weed out messers. which they were. found him a gentleman to talk to

kowtow

Importing cattle from Switzerland would, of course, not be a business at all.

It would be a pastime.

Selling beef from them, embryos from them, breeding stock or bulls from them... these would (or might) be businesses.

So I suspect what people are really asking is, what is it that is so special about a breed of beef from Switzerland which will make either farmers adopt it or customers buy the product from an Irish (not a swiss) farm.

This place is full of experts at raising beef, selling beef and I dare say eating it as well.

Might be worth engaging positively with them if you are serous about it.

The import question has been well answered I think and is hardly the make or break factor unless you are planning on raising beef in the alps and slaughtering it for consumption here.

bogman_bass

OP I suppose you have people here that have worked in the industry of importing animals, semen, and embryos on here. As one of those I would just be concerned that you might have bought into some good marketing rather than having a supperior animal.

You might be surprised, they might already be over here.

Also be warned that some of the beefed Swiss cattle are stone mad and are Reared for fighting

Feirmeoir beag

I'm satisfied with all my answers to date per questions I posted on my original post. For all of you who answered it head on directly and didn't diverge into speculation as to what I plan on doing thank you. Thanks to all of you who have been interested as I knew would happen and unfortunately I have to leave you guessing as to what I'm doing. I may be back with new posts soon relating to the same venture which will bleed more information and little by little, all will be revealed. So, watch this space! I'm just stepping out this process carefully. Thanks everyone.

Base price

Feirmeoir beag wrote: »

I'm satisfied with all my answers to date per questions I posted on my original post. For all of you who answered it head on directly and didn't diverge into speculation as to what I plan on doing thank you. Thanks to all of you who have been interested as I knew would happen and unfortunately I have to leave you guessing as to what I'm doing. I may be back with new posts soon relating to the same venture which will bleed more information and little by little, all will be revealed. So, watch this space! I'm just stepping out this process carefully. Thanks everyone.

So you're satisfied with our answers to date :rolleyes: