How much meat do you eat? How sustainable are current meat-eating levels?

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~vsmil/pdf_pubs/PDR2003.pdf

According to this paper, people currently eat way, way more meat than they did in the not too distant past. Only a few generations ago, many people never ate meat from one end of the year to another, and not by choice.

Before agriculture began to be practised, or practised widely, and people lived by hunting and gathering, human population densities were much lower. Even 3- 4000 years ago, thousands of years after pure hunting and gathering became replaced by some degree of agriculture, in Europe in particular, the population of the world was still only in the low tens of millions. ie. maybe 200 times fewer people needing to be fed than nowadays. So it was all well and good people eating a high-meat diet suplimented with nuts and berries 10,000 or 15,000 years ago when the number of people on the planet was under maybe 2 or 3 million and there were plenty of animals to go around. But when many people in a world of 7.4 billion demand as satisfying and high-protein a diet as was eaten by sparse hunter-gatherers in bygone times, it becomes necessary to maintain an evil and emotionally-detached system of farming billions of sentient animals in cages and pens as if they have no emotions themselves, seperating them from their young and basically giving them no quality of life before they end their days in an abbatoir.

While the vegetarian arguments of animal cruelty are valid in my opinion (and I admit I hypocritically continue to eat meat, but not that much) I am concered here about the sustainability from a resources-available-to-humanity perspective. If the whole world demanded to eat as much meat as would actually satisfy their desire, there would not be enough to go around. As elaborated on in the link above, meat is very energy inefficient to produce and to give everyone in the world western levels of consumption would require 67% more land to be devoted to farming the animals and growing their food. And that is just the *current* world population - by the time there are 10 billion people and the aspirations and expectations of many of those people being much higher than now, we will begin to actually feel this scarcity.

People underestimate just how recently and how much our diets improved in this country. Much more meat in their diets has allowed children growing up in Ireland these days to grow way taller than their grandparents were and significantly taller than their parents were also. It seems clear to me that the influence of nutrition on height (through effects of mothers nutrition on you while youre in the womb, direct effects on your growing body out of the womb, epigenetic effects prior to conception etc.) is much more important in determining a persons height than the presence of genes related to height in the the person - tall people who existed in the past would have been even taller if they grew up in times of even better nutrition and todays short people would have been even shorter with worse nutrition.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19208691

And the growth in consumption of meat is much more recent than I think many of us realise or remember. Growing up as a child in the 90s, my typical daily diet was breakfast cereal at breakfast and tea-time and dinner was typically potatoes and maybe 1 sausage or 2 fish fingers or a small bit of savoury mince. Often I would just get potatoes and spaghetti hoops. I always craved to have more meat than I actually got and would eat meat off the floor or my parents plates if I could get it. Only the well off children in my class would get sandwiches which from a 2010s perspective look satisfying and adequate.

Fast forward a few years and when I went to secondary school, kids actually get hot food at lunch time, like chicken inside bread rolls and sausage rolls -- the luxury of it! I still didn't get this and continued to make do with sandwiches, although by this time I had a thin slice of meat in my sandwiches more often than when I was in primary school when bread and butter was the norm. I couldn't imagine parents allowing their children to go to school nowadays without ensuring they got a satisfying amount of meat for their lunch. No wonder they're all so tall nowadays that I feel tiny standing beside them. Also, I would love to know if my experience getting so little meat as a child was widespread at the time or not?..

To add fuel to the fire, cultural changes since the mid 2000s have made people more vain, body-concerned, diet-concerned etc. than before and now you have people eating more protein to gain muscle mass and lose body fat. I see teenagers going around drinking "protein shakes" where 15 years ago it would have been a bottle of coke. There seems to be a lack of self-awareness among people as to how luxurious all this meat consumption is compared to when they were younger or against any context really! This all adds to the demand for limited supplied of meat and other animal protein.

I suppose my general question is does anyone else feel that this growth in meat consumption can continue and should continue? Did you get much meat when you were younger? Do you eat much meat now?

MilesMorales1

Goodness me thats a lot of words.

Yes I eat a fair bit of meat, although I'm trying to cut down a tad.

MilesMorales1

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Goodness me thats a lot of words.

Yes I eat a fair bit of meat, although I'm trying to cut down a tad.

Yes apologies for it being so long, this is something that I think about a fair bit so I had a lot to get out of my mind!

Fart

Didn't read but, would you not try eating more onions?

eviltwin

We had meat with everything growing up, so did everyone I knew. Vegetarianism was for hippies and celebrities. I stopped eating meat in the early 90's for animal welfare reasons. I went vegan last year and my health has improved a lot. My husband is a meat eater but he rarely eats red meat now and tends to stick to chicken and fish. My kids don't eat meat. I think as we develop our tastes and become a bit more adventurous we are more willing to explore meat free diets and we are more aware of the health benefits of cutting back. Personal choice of course. No one should feel guilty for eating meat.

osarusan

Meat 4 or 5 days a week maybe. Fish once a week on average. Maybe 2 days with neither.

But on those 4 or 5 days, it might be only part of one meal. Breakfast might have meat in it only once a week, if that. Fairly small portions of it too. A family of two adults and kids, and 2 chicken breasts would do us for a dinner.

andekwarhola

Burger.

King George VI

Just having this discussion at work today. I've always been a big meat eater. Always chicken or steak or lamb or duck or fish or pork ribs and sometimes crocodile for dinner. Most often I have meat for lunch too. Ever since I was a young lad I've had a meat heavy diet. Heavy in veg and fruit too but the centre of all of my meals is a dead animal.

I would eat any animal as long as it tasted good. Couldn't give a bollocks if they go extinct. I'd happily pay a handsome fee to personally kill, cook and eat the last duck on Earth.

silverharp

I grew up on meat and 2 veg, it was before all the ready meal stuff took off. Im more a low carb person so I like my meat and protein.

Fart

silverharp wrote: »

I grew up on meat and 2 veg, it was before all the ready meal stuff took off. Im more a low carb person so I like my meat and protein.

Meat and 2 veg...

I'm a hypocrite when it comes to meat, no doubt about it. One thing I can definitely see the world regretting is expanding "Western" meat eating habits to other areas as they become more prosperous.

stimpson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhoHwQ0cwIQ

Mr. CooL ICE

Fart wrote: »

Didn't read but, would you not try eating more onions?

He uses them for his belt. Try to keep up

Lia_lia

I don't eat meat. My Mother is a vegetarian. Sister is a vegan. We grew up rarely eating meat. Only if we were at someone's house or something, never really ate it at home. I started eating fish a few years ago but only the odd time.

A lot of people I know say they don't feel full/satisfied if they have a meal without meat. I don't know if that's just a mental thing.

Stigura

I eat meat like a horse ...............

Molsen K

I'm trying to eat more meat. Ideally O'd like to have steak and eggs for breakfast, maybe chicken salad for lunch and then fish or beef stew for dinner.

Molsen K

Lia_lia wrote: »

I don't eat meat. My Mother is a vegetarian. Sister is a vegan. We grew up rarely eating meat. Only if we were at someone's house or something, never really ate it at home. I started eating fish a few years ago but only the odd time.

A lot of people I know say they don't feel full/satisfied if they have a meal without meat. I don't know if that's just a mental thing.

It's scientiffically proven that protein makes you feel more full.

Teddington Cuddlesworth

I saw there was a thread about eating, I got excited.
Then I saw I had to read, my excitement levels dropped so I had a sandwich, now I'm on a steady plateau.
I'm not sure why I'm here but it has my vote.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'll admit I didn't read the full OP as it was too long and boring. But, I love my meat. I have beef or pork 5 days a week for dinner and an odd cooked breakfast. I don't care if it's sustainable, to be honest.

TerrorFirmer

I eat what I would have thought to be a normal amount of meat. A chicken sandwich usually for lunch and some form of chicken-based dish again for dinner. I don't always have to have meat with my lunch, but I'd almost never eat a dinner without meat.

DontThankMe

Sorry but I love meat and I don't I could stop eating it.

This song sums up my feelings perfectly!

Paulina Scary Billiards

Paulina Scary Billiards wrote: »

I'll admit I didn't read the full OP as it was too long and boring. But, I love my meat. I have beef or pork 5 days a week for dinner and an odd cooked breakfast. I don't care if it's sustainable, to be honest.

Probably the rough answer most people would give if they were being as honest as you.

Parchment

No meat - havent eaten it since i was seven. Best decision i ever made for animals, the planet and myself.

People love to hate vegetarians and vegans but its actually the right thing to do and they know it too.

Paulzx

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you get much meat when you were younger?

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Jesus, there's another tribunal in that one

Mr.Plough

Saw it, said 'not reading that', but wanted to scan the post for reference to the fitness industry, as that was the first thing that came to me.

You're post is interestingly difficult to scan, so I basically read through it and you talked about the fitness industry last.

Very boring, but nicely written.

suicide_circus

BEAT THE MEAT

MilesMorales1

I generally wouldn't eat meat for breakfast, mainly cos it takes ages to cook sausages or bacon of a morning. Lunch is usually a butty of some sort, ham or egg. Tea is always meat based.

Lia_lia

Molsen K wrote: »

It's scientiffically proven that protein makes you feel more full.

You can get protein from vegetarian sources too. Beans/lentils in particular are very filling.

scriba

We cut down drastically a couple of years ago. Once a week we roast a chicken (organic) for a dinner and lunches during the week. Other than that, it's either fish or vegetarian dishes (loads of beans, lentils, chickpeas). Eggs for breakfast sometimes.

Consumption of meat doesn't seem sustainable, but with the rate of industrialization and population growth, it's just one of many unsustainable things.

Shenshen

Haven't eaten meat in 9 or 10 years now, hubby's been vegetarian for nearly 30 years now.

I was raised with meat for every meal, every day, but I can't say I miss it much these days. It seems so boring and same-y these days.

I can't imagine everybody turning vegetarian, and I'm not entirely convinced that that would be a good thing anyway. But I would wish people would go for quality instead of quantity, have meat less frequently but when they do, choose meat from an animal that had a decent life and pay that little bit more.

VonLuck

Parchment wrote: »

People love to hate vegetarians and vegans but its actually the right thing to do and they know it too.

No, I believe people dislike certain vegetarians and vegans who think they are better than everyone else. :rolleyes: