New temporary forum mod

Zaph

Due to the recent tragedy it's fair to say that the forum has experienced a surge in traffic over the past few days. Coupled with absences due to the holiday weekend this has put a lot of additional pressure on the mod team, so as a temporary measure Steve has very kindly volunteered to give a helping hand for a short while. Thanks Steve, here's something to inspire you in the new role:

Ludo

Can the thread about 116 be reopened now so? Shutting down a very interesting thread on the biggest story of the week on a website whose slogan is "now ye're talking" is kinda defeating the whole purpose of the site.

Steve

Thanks Zaph,

I'll get a discussion going with the mods over the terms of re-opening the discussion.

TallGlass

Ludo wrote: »

Can the thread about 116 be reopened now so? Shutting down a very interesting thread on the biggest story of the week on a website whose slogan is "now ye're talking" is kinda defeating the whole purpose of the site.

Have to agree, I am been turned off this site weekly by the moderation. Only thing keeping me here is there is no alternative to it. There's now a shortage of mods, which I find hard to believe.

Steve

TallGlass wrote: »

Have to agree, I am been turned off this site weekly by the moderation. Only thing keeping me here is there is no alternative to it. There's now a shortage of mods, which I find hard to believe.

It's not a shortage, just a lack of time and availability of existing mods and an unprecedented event thread that needed a lot of modding, not a fair ask of the single online mod at the time.

Storm 10

It should be reopened given that more wreckage has been found today on the main coastline of Mayo

TomOnBoard

Steve wrote: »

It's not a shortage, just a lack of time and availability of existing mods and an unprecedented event thread that needed a lot of modding, not a fair ask of the single online mod at the time.

As I saw the conversations developing, it did seem that a) modding was absolutely necessary and b) the thread was running the risk of being way too much work for one person. I probably contributed to the mod' s difficulties myself and for that I apologise.

However, I repeat that Nature abhors a vacuum. I found the thread was very useful to help me understand the Facts of the tragedy, without having to rely on mainstream media who too often present 'alternative facts'. I fully agree however that some of the speculation / commentary in respect of why and/or how the tragedy occurred was probably inappropriate.

It would be a pity if such inappropriate commentary means that the factual vacuum will not be filled.

Again, thanks to the mods who have to crack the whip every now and again... Sometimes it's like herding cats, I'm sure..

TallGlass

Steve wrote: »

It's not a shortage, just a lack of time and availability of existing mods and an unprecedented event thread that needed a lot of modding, not a fair ask of the single online mod at the time.

Is there not four mods for this forum. Sorry, I don't buy it. Whats the point in having mods and category mods if no one is available and you've to be subbed in.

If that's the case then even more reason for my rants about moderation on this site. It isn't working, the mods are stressed and the easiest thing for them to do on the fly is shut down a thread.

The mod system is flawed on this site, it needs to be changed and I still think there are way to many mods.

Steve

TallGlass wrote: »

Is there not four mods for this forum. Sorry, I don't buy it. Whats the point in having mods and category mods if no one is available and you've to be subbed in.

If that's the case then even more reason for my rants about moderation on this site. It isn't working, the mods are stressed and the easiest thing for them to do on the fly is shut down a thread.

The mod system is flawed on this site, it needs to be changed and I still think there are way to many mods.

With respect, the feedback forum is the place to air your views on that.

Not having that discussion here.

Steve

Just to add, as Zaph said, I'm only here to help the existing mods.
None are online at the moment and it is still their decision as to when and under what terms to re-open discussion on the 116 thread. I am sure it will be re-opened but I have to ask you to all sit tight for now.

.G.

Ridiculous to close it imo. It's a discussion forum for people to discuss and they will want to discuss what they think happened. Nobody is doubting the professionalism or heroism of the crew regardless of what they think may have happened. People need to stop getting precious about other people's opinions.

Ludo

Steve wrote: »

Just to add, as Zaph said, I'm only here to help the existing mods.
None are online at the moment and it is still their decision as to when and under what terms to re-open discussion on the 116 thread. I am sure it will be re-opened but I have to ask you to all sit tight for now.

Sorry, but what is to discuss. There is a forum charter and website rules. Isn't that enough?
Modertation lilke this is killing the site and has been for quite a while now. Tis a shame to see.

Steve

superg wrote: »

Ridiculous to close it imo. It's a discussion forum for people to discuss and they will want to discuss what they think happened. Nobody is doubting the professionalism or heroism of the crew regardless of what they think may have happened. People need to stop getting precious about other people's opinions.

They are actually, over 40 posts in the thread were deleted or edited for that very reason.

You don't know (and I don't expect you to know) the effort involved in keeping this site running. A bit of respect for those that do would be nice though.

Steve

Ludo wrote: »

Sorry, but what is to discuss. There is a forum charter and website rules. Isn't that enough?
Modertation lilke this is killing the site and has been for quite a while now. Tis a shame to see.

Yes it's enough, I'm just waiting for local mods to be online and make that call. They have other stuff going on in real life. It's not fair to them if I do it, it's their forum.

I'll see if a CMOD of this forum will make the call, otherwise we can bicker on here till the cows come home..

sjb25

Steve wrote: »

They are actually, over 40 posts in the thread were deleted or edited for that very reason.
quote]

That is a disgrace no matter what anybody wants to say I no people on the site want to discuss what mite of happened but I myself (no aviation background) seen posts in that thread that would have u believe that the cause was all but said and done maybe the posters didn't mean to do that but they did
And I suppose some of the problem Is it's so close to home I myself have met and worked with some of the crew trough my work it's all very raw and we are getting to emotional possibly

.G.

I didn't see any, I've seen plenty of people discuss that they think it might be pilot error or whatever but I don't see that as a problem when it actually might have been nor do I see that as questioning their professionalism or heroism, people make mistakes. I've seen plenty of people say "this isn't the time for speculation" but that's the whole point of discussion. I'd rather read people's theories and other people's reasons for discounting them then read pages of people saying how sad they are about it. It's a tragic event and we are all sad about it, I'd like to get information and opinions on why it may have happened.

Then again I probably haven't seen all the deleted posts before they got deleted. And I do appreciate it takes effort to keep this place going but I also agree that mods step in needlessly a lot of the time.

Storm 10

With respect to the mods the same questions being asked here are being discussed on pprune so I can't understand the reason to close the thread on such an important and tragic accident

Steve

I have provisionally re-opened discussion on this.

Please note the terms of reference, these may change as the local mods are online again.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057718692

TallGlass

Steve. Let me say one thing. I am not doubting the mods commitment to this site at all. I have posted in feedback many times now and this just shows that what I am saying is correct but it's falling on deaf ears with either the owners of the site or administration. If mods are under pressure and under resourced that's a serious concern or unavailable which is perfectly reasonable it's a volunteer role.

Whats needed in my eyes is a major review of moderation on this site, because as someone said already it literally is killing off the site. This crack of closing down threads really and truly needs to stop.

Steve

TallGlass wrote: »

Steve. Let me say one thing. I am not doubting the mods commitment to this site at all. I have posted in feedback many times now and this just shows that what I am saying is correct but it's falling on deaf ears with either the owners of the site or administration. If mods are under pressure and under resourced that's a serious concern or unavailable which is perfectly reasonable it's a volunteer role.

Whats needed in my eyes is a major review of moderation on this site, because as someone said already it literally is killing off the site. This crack of closing down threads really and truly needs to stop.

Fair enough, it's frustrating for both sides, we are doing our best with limited resources tho.

smurfjed

Are we allowed ask that aviation interest / qualifications that "Steve" has for an aviation forum?

Zaph

TallGlass wrote: »

Whats needed in my eyes is a major review of moderation on this site, because as someone said already it literally is killing off the site. This crack of closing down threads really and truly needs to stop.

The thread was closed at quarter to one this morning when there was only one mod around who was quite entitled to call it a night at that stage. However before doing so he had to do a major clean up on the thread because some people were having great difficulty in following simple mod instructions. Had the thread been left open overnight it would have been a massive train wreck. So, under those circumstances please tell me how you would have dealt with it.

Zaph

smurfjed wrote: »

Are we allowed ask that aviation interest / qualifications that "Steve" has for an aviation forum?

What difference does that make? Steve is one of the most experienced CMods on the site and is well capable of identifying when people are acting the dick and taking the appropriate action. If a post is reported that is of a more technical nature and is outside his experience then I'm sure that he will defer to the other mods or consult with them before taking action, as happens on many forums on the site. As already mentioned, this is only a temporary measure and we will discuss with the forum mods if they require more permanent assistance. If so, the proper consideration will be given to each candidates interest and contributions to the forum, just as we do with every permanent forum mod.

smurfjed

OK, I have a lot of respect for Irish Steve, his contributions to this forum were vast prior to getting assigned as a moderator. I therefore respect his technical knowledge prior to moderating or deleting or even disagreeing with postings. I cant say the same for "Steve",  therefore i would see him immediately deleting postings from people such as "eatmyshorts" without realising who they are!
If this happens, its the forums loss....

Steve

smurfjed wrote: »

OK, I have a lot of respect for Irish Steve, his contributions to this forum were vast prior to getting assigned as a moderator. I therefore respect his technical knowledge prior to moderating or deleting or even disagreeing with postings. I cant say the same for "Steve",  therefore i would see him immediately deleting postings from people such as "eatmyshorts" without realising who they are!
If this happens, its the forums loss....

I am well aware of the circumstances of my being a temp mod here, I am not claiming any experience other than being able to handle a hostile busy thread and facilitating everyone's viewpoint in a fair and transparent manner.

tricky D

A few notes:

The original thread was going downhill fast. While not everyone might agree, closing it for a while had certain justifications.
Between jigs and reels we ended up shorthanded here and it being Paddy's weekend does not help. Steve offered a hand which was gladly accepted. Experience in avaiation matters is one thing, but how to run a forum trumps that.
Deleted posts are always a problem but regular posters might not be able to perceive the full story, so comments on that matter might not be fully informed, which needs to be kept in mind.
The unfortunate thing about threads like these is the lack of concrete knowledge leading to speculation of various quality, some good, some bad. That's kind of inevitable, but we as mods do need to act as fit in a very imperfect scenario. That is not an easy task with no perfect solution.
The original thread is not permanently closed, but when and if reopened, some merging from this thread may be in order. Like I said, until some more concrete info from reliable sources we need to avoid the kind of bad speculation which was rife in the thread.

We're reasonably happy to allow comments on modding on this matter in this thread as we acknowledge the problems which have arisen. However caveats do apply.

Gaoth Laidir

I think this and other accident threads become overly politically correct when it comes to sharing information on the details. I've never got what is wrong with speculating if such is done only with reference to the facts at hand. There seems to a very thin and grey line between discussion and speculating. You can speculate on this, but you can only discuss this...

I know Ireland is a small aviation community and everyone knows everyone, but facts are still facts and we should be able to discuss them as long as we do so respectfully. For example, suggesting one possibilty why one member of the crew was separated from the others is not, imo, being disrespectful or hurtful to anyone. However, this has been seen as such. It's not. It's based on fact and is something that what people are wondering.

It's an emotive issue but still, unless someone is really taking the proverbial and posting trolling commments, stop making work for yourselves.

robyntmorton

The trouble is that it becomes difficult to manage when people don't follow the "I think <x> happened because of <y fact that is public domain>" and post that "Oh they must have flown into the rock" or "I've a source that I can't share with you which says something different happened"

The fact that it is an emotive issue, hits close to home, and affects so many people unfortunately does make it a moderation nightmare, and fair play to Steve for volunteering to try and keep it straight and level.

A proper discussion on moderation should be held, at a higher level than just this topic, but there still needs to be some management of this particular issue.

tricky D

Ed: Referring to GL's post.

Usually they would be fair points, however there might have been posts which you were not aware of ie. you didn't get as much of the picture as we did re the whole thread. There was a lot more going on in the background than regular posters would be aware of.

Secondly, recently we have been victim of a contrived evidence scenario so we have to be even more careful re speculation than normal.

As for some discussion not being hurtful or disrespectful, that's a line in the sand we have determine. It's not easy and what is fine for some doesn't wash with others. It's often a tricky call but one thing is sure, there will be people who disagree like yourself which is fine, but we have take a holistic approach.

@robyn we recently did have such a discussion and made some changes but given the nature of the topics and posters in A&A you can never satisfy everyone. As for at a higher level, some of last night's actions were made not just at mod level and were decided upon at multiple levels including admin ie. plenty of management involved.

Irish Steve

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I think this and other accident threads become overly politically correct when it comes to sharing information on the details. I've never got what is wrong with speculating if such is done only with reference to the facts at hand. There seems to a very thin and grey line between discussion and speculating. You can speculate on this, but you can only discuss this...

I know Ireland is a small aviation community and everyone knows everyone, but facts are still facts and we should be able to discuss them as long as we do so respectfully. For example, suggesting one possibilty why one member of the crew was separated from the others is not, imo, being disrespectful or hurtful to anyone. However, this has been seen as such. It's not. It's based on fact and is something that what people are wondering.

It's an emotive issue but still, unless someone is really taking the proverbial and posting trolling commments, stop making work for yourselves.

It's even more emotive while 3 of the crew of 116 are not yet recovered, and to be blunt, some of the uninformed speculation has been so far off the mark, to have left it as it was would have been totally disrespectful to the people that flew 116.

I fully recognise that all scenarios have to be considered, but some can be ruled out without a great deal of work if you have the detailed knowledge about the aircraft and the qualification of the crew, which some on the forum do have, and can apply to the situation.

As I have mentioned in the thread, while I don't have a helicopter rating, I have had enough contact and personal experience within "the industry" over a long period of time to know that some of the suggestions made are well meaning but completely off the mark, and it's not appropriate to leave them in the public domain.

We have also had a problem with suggested "information" that is not in the public domain, and in that case, we are in an even more difficult position, as the owner of such data could take action against the owners and operators of Boards.ie for revealing it, while the concept of freedom of speech is constantly referred to, the reality is that in some areas, and for very valid reasons, we do NOT have blanket and unrestricted freedom of speech, and changing that is not within our capability.

What can be even more damaging is supposed information that is not even valid, or correct, and created by someone with no link or involvement with the situation, and differentiating between those scenarios is at time a nightmare, but we have to try to do so.

Without giving away too much information, the reason the thread was closed for a time was simply that there were significant numbers of inappropriate, wrong, offensive or otherwise posts arriving at a faster rate than they could be managed with the resources available, and with no new information or updates expected for some time, a higher level decision was made to give me a break, and to allow us to catch up with the backlog.

I still have a number of messages to respond to, which won't be happening today, and that's assuming that nothing new happens to stir things up again.

Fortunately for all of us, accidents of this nature are very rare, so the moderation team are not normally under such extreme pressure, all I can do is say that if we (I mostly) got it wrong, it wasn't through any malice, it was simply that there wasn't time to spend reviewing and analysing what was happening, so rapid decisions had to be made, to put it in context, there have been more user reports about inappropriate or unacceptable content from the R116 thread in 4 days than I have seen over the last 12 months.

We are getting things back under control, and stuff that normally doesn't slip through like a re registered troll (A320) have now been dealt with, we try to nip them in the bud before they waste too many people's time, but that sort of routine went for a ball of chalk last night, R116 on it's own was a full time job for close on 5 hours, which made for problems, and with other events happening today, that's why we are pleased to have some temporary support from Steve and the Admins.

I absolutely want the R116 investigation to find out what went wrong on Monday, and for the whole industry to learn from it so that there is no repeat any time soon, and I will do whatever I can within the constraints on us to facilitate that. I would like to hope that the user community on Boards will help us to do that, while at the same time remaining within the guidelines that we have laid down.

Gaoth Laidir

tricky D wrote: »

Ed: Referring to GL's post.

Usually they would be fair points, however there might have been posts which you were not aware of ie. you didn't get as much of the picture as we did re the whole thread. There was a lot more going on in the background than regular posters would be aware of.

Secondly, recently we have been victim of a contrived evidence scenario so we have to be even more careful re speculation than normal.

As for some discussion not being hurtful or disrespectful, that's a line in the sand we have determine. It's not easy and what is fine for some doesn't wash with others. It's often a tricky call but one thing is sure, there will be people who disagree like yourself which is fine, but we have take a holistic approach.

@robyn we recently did have such a discussion and made some changes but given the nature of the topics and posters in A&A you can never satisfy everyone. As for at a higher level, some of last night's actions were made not just at mod level and were decided upon at multiple levels including admin ie. plenty of management involved.

I did see a lot of the messages that were deleted. I have been glued to the thread since it happened. I know it's a thankless job so the best of luck to the mods. I hope people post sensibly to make things better for all. But more importantly, I hope the recovery can take place to bring some closure to the poor families.:(

robyntmorton

tricky D wrote: »

@robyn we recently did have such a discussion and made some changes but given the nature of the topics and posters in A&A you can never satisfy everyone. As for at a higher level, some of last night's actions were made not just at mod level and were decided upon at multiple levels including admin ie. plenty of management involved.

I didn't mean higher level as in management, but in strategy and overview. Obviously when moderation (on any topic) happens you are going to annoy someone with the action, but that's the nature of the beast.

I, personally, have no problems with how boards is moderated in general. There are times where I think they should be quicker/slower to act, but for a volunteer service they do well.

This is really more of a feedback forum topic though, yet even there, there will be the issue of finding out what people like/don't like/want to see changed, without it becoming a soapbox for people to rant.

Pat Dunne

Irish Steve wrote: »

We are getting things back under control, and stuff that normally doesn't slip through like a re registered troll (A320) have now been dealt with, we try to nip them in the bud before they waste too many people's time

You might want to check out http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=836981

Irish Steve

Pat Dunne wrote: »

You might want to check out

Already dealt with by admins, and another possible ID has just been reported.

Pat Dunne

Irish Steve wrote: »

Already dealt with by admins, and another possible ID has just been reported

Just to let you know its still an active account
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=836981

With regard to the existing Mod team, I have maintained for a number of years that this forum requires an additional 2 active Mods to assist Tenger and more recently Irish Steve.

That's my last word on the matter as I recall the slap down I received from a particular Catagory Mod, when I made this very same suggestion in the past.

robyntmorton

I know I've already thanked Steve for stepping up, but it should also be said for Irish Steve and the A&A mod team: You were dropped in it by this tragedy, and it may feel like a never ending battle, but your work is appreciated

Tenger

robyntmorton wrote: »

I know I've already thanked Steve for stepping up, but it should also be said for Irish Steve and the A&A mod team: You were dropped in it by this tragedy, and it may feel like a never ending battle, but your work is appreciated

Well in fairness we have a good bunch of posters here as well. All passionate. As Irish Steve pointed out aboue, the level of reports and messages was overwhelming.
I have been on a offsite location for work over the last 3 days so its was mostly a one man show.

Zaph

Pat Dunne wrote: »

You might want to check out http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=836981

Sorted

billie1b

15 years in the aviation industry and over the last while i've noticed that 'respected posters' like myself (not referring to myself as that, i've been referred to as that by others) who have good information and can offer a lot have stepped back and don't post as much.
I personally put it down to boards.ie getting too politically correct and afraid to leave peoples opinions that don't suit boards.ie' agenda up on the site, there's no legal aspect to it, boards.ie cannot and would not be held accountable for what posters say, if that was the case facebook, reddit, pprune etc etc including boards would be shut down, if anything was libelous it's the poster that would get contacted and dealt with, not boards.ie. Yes boards would be contacted by authorities for them to hand over information but they wouldn't and can't be held accountable for what people say on a public forum.
Moderation on A&A is not too bad but you can notice the bias between whats allowed be said about certain airlines and whats not allowed be said about other certain airlines, it gets real annoying at times because certain mods have favourites and that shouldn't be the case, if you want to mod you should be impartial.
The moderation on the rest of the site is a joke, loads of forums i've noticed that if a mod doesn't agree with you or doesn't like what you said or you have proved a mod wrong it's a ban straight away, even if what you said wasn't offensive or damaging or breeching the charter, it's pettiness, then you have the other mods coming to the rescue if the original mod and ganging up on a poster and saying they're wrong and the mod is correct. It's an absolute pure abuse of "power" and thats whats turning regular users, like myself, away from posting regularly.
Thats the way it seems to me, don't know if anyone else notices it and i'm not trying to offend anyone, just giving a bit of feedback.

The recent Rescue 116 thread was the straw for me, just purely over modded and too politically correct in my opinion. I'll admit, when I heard of the crash of R116 and seen the flight track etc etc, the first thing I thought of was 'jaysus they must have flown into the island' and 'they must have ran out of fuel', i've no problem admitting it, it's human nature to think like that when these things occur but me thinking that or saying that didn't and won't take away the fact that the crew of R116 was highly highly trained and skilled at what they did and most likely the cause of the crash would have nothing to do with what I or others thought and others shouldn't take offence to what I or others think either because guess what, we're all only human and like myself they and we can and probably did make mistakes in their careers and it will continue to happen. I still to this day make errors every now and then but we have procedures in place to catch the error before it becomes a serious problem. Anyone who says they don't make mistakes or couldn't possibly make mistakes are just liars and ashamed to admit it. Unfortunately no matter what industry you're in, mistakes will happen and occur from highly skilled people right down to non skilled people, that's life and it'll always be that way.
Again RIP to the crew of R116, may they rest peacefully and forever fly high.

martinsvi

typically when we get new moderators to come in and clean the very dirt we created, we are somewhat more welcoming than that.. I guess this incident has brought the very worse out of all of us.

nothing is perfect. Sometimes the utmost professional pilots make mistakes that make you scratch your head. Sometimes the very sophistication of the gadgets and tools can send you straight to hell.. or the lack of them.. or their failure... I can understand the human desire to speculate... but because this is so close to home for many of us, it quickly becomes personal and offensive. Let's discuss, let's try to learn from the tragedy, but also let's not try to jump to conclusions when we have so little to go by..

Steve

billie1b wrote: »

15 years in the aviation industry and over the last while i've noticed that 'respected posters' like myself (not referring to myself as that, i've been referred to as that by others) who have good information and can offer a lot have stepped back and don't post as much.
I personally put it down to boards.ie getting too politically correct and afraid to leave peoples opinions that don't suit boards.ie' agenda up on the site, there's no legal aspect to it, boards.ie cannot and would not be held accountable for what posters say, if that was the case facebook, reddit, pprune etc etc including boards would be shut down, if anything was libelous it's the poster that would get contacted and dealt with, not boards.ie. Yes boards would be contacted by authorities for them to hand over information but they wouldn't and can't be held accountable for what people say on a public forum.
Moderation on A&A is not too bad but you can notice the bias between whats allowed be said about certain airlines and whats not allowed be said about other certain airlines, it gets real annoying at times because certain mods have favourites and that shouldn't be the case, if you want to mod you should be impartial.
The moderation on the rest of the site is a joke, loads of forums i've noticed that if a mod doesn't agree with you or doesn't like what you said or you have proved a mod wrong it's a ban straight away, even if what you said wasn't offensive or damaging or breeching the charter, it's pettiness, then you have the other mods coming to the rescue if the original mod and ganging up on a poster and saying they're wrong and the mod is correct. It's an absolute pure abuse of "power" and thats whats turning regular users, like myself, away from posting regularly.
Thats the way it seems to me, don't know if anyone else notices it and i'm not trying to offend anyone, just giving a bit of feedback.

The recent Rescue 116 thread was the straw for me, just purely over modded and too politically correct in my opinion. I'll admit, when I heard of the crash of R116 and seen the flight track etc etc, the first thing I thought of was 'jaysus they must have flown into the island' and 'they must have ran out of fuel', i've no problem admitting it, it's human nature to think like that when these things occur but me thinking that or saying that didn't and won't take away the fact that the crew of R116 was highly highly trained and skilled at what they did and most likely the cause of the crash would have nothing to do with what I or others thought and others shouldn't take offence to what I or others think either because guess what, we're all only human and like myself they and we can and probably did make mistakes in their careers and it will continue to happen. I still to this day make errors every now and then but we have procedures in place to catch the error before it becomes a serious problem. Anyone who says they don't make mistakes or couldn't possibly make mistakes are just liars and ashamed to admit it. Unfortunately no matter what industry you're in, mistakes will happen and occur from highly skilled people right down to non skilled people, that's life and it'll always be that way.
Again RIP to the crew of R116, may they rest peacefully and forever fly high.

I'm probably the least PC mod on boards, however, feedback forum is the best place for this..

Foggy43

I think a certain music promoter threatened boards.ie with legal action over something a poster said and since then boards.ie have been very careful on what they allow to be posted. A few years ago now. Before billie1b joined.

The night of the 16th a regular good reliable contributer posted an ok post except the last line which even made me cringe a bit. It could be true for all we know. As always it set of a reaction which the mods had to sort out. Of course deleting the controversial line left the following posts unexplained. A nightmare for the mods.

To make matters worse today we had the return of the trolls. The mods have a difficult job. I couldn't handle it. Give the mods a break. Everyone is a little upset over Rescue 116.

Tenger

Billie1b, we dont want to chase anyone away. I find the range of experience and knowledge to be very broad here, but this is a good thing as those who know can lend that knowledge to those who are interested. The mods here are part of the group rather than seeing themselves as above other posters. I try my best to be impartial, (it can be hard as I do have my personal opinion and do disagree with certain posters). EG. I dont mind people constructively making points about an airline but I dislike seeing abuse without basis about any of the Irish airlines.

More specifically re the recent tragedy, certain assumptions could be reached quite quickly. However as explained in thread, the heavy modding was more about trying to control the rapid descent in tone and curb the posting of unsubstantiated rumour.
Perhaps the reaction of posters is a good thing as such heavy modding is unusual in A&A? Personally I would like it if the mods here had very little interference, sign of a good community in my opinion.

eatmyshorts

Foggy43 wrote: »

The night of the 16th a regular good reliable contributer posted an ok post except the last line which even made me cringe a bit. It could be true for all we know. As always it set of a reaction which the mods had to sort out. Of course deleting the controversial line left the following posts unexplained. A nightmare for the mods.

An awful lot of Snowflakes out there who need to step out of their " safe spaces" and realise real life isn't one big Disney cartoon full of skipping bunnies and singing birds.

J.pilkington

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Just to let you know its still an active account
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=836981

With regard to the existing Mod team, I have maintained for a number of years that this forum requires an additional 2 active Mods to assist Tenger and more recently Irish Steve.

That's my last word on the matter as I recall the slap down I received from a particular Catagory Mod, when I made this very same suggestion in the past.

To be fair that's not exactly how it went down, you were neither the nicest nor that constructive of a poster when you turned on the mods last year and stared creating threatening threads.im sure your record clearly indicates what really went on

<edit> I'm only posting the above to correct the record which would otherwise have very unfairly reflected on the mods who do a great job volunteering their time to sometimes receive abuse

LXFlyer

Having moderated other sites in the past, I know how hard it can be.

Even with multiple moderators, it isn't possible to have instant action taken despite how much people may expect it.

People need to have a bit of patience, and in particular stop either trying to backseat mod or post about potential trolls on the message boards themselves - there is a report button that people can use - the Aer Lingus fleet discussion thread is completely side tracked by posts discussing who is potentially a troll - that is completely unnecessary.

Just use the report function and let the moderators do their job. Some posters here seem incapable of following that basic rule.

If something contravenes the rules or is in the wrong forum - report it and the moderators can deal with it - there is no need for people to try and do that job themselves.

I find it completely puts me off having to read that sort of nonsense.

Similarly moderators are never going to please everyone, but they do have a job to do and in the case of the R116 tragedy that involves walking a very thin line - I think people need to cut them some slack here.

JCX BXC

Fair enough, difficult situation, don't blanket ban discussion. There was nothing overly malicious being posted, but infact all I see is a knowledgeable poster disagreeing with a mod and it breaking into anarchy.

I would take issue with Irish Steve's post, he was posting in a personal manner but using the bold font, which implies that what he is saying is completely factual and rules of the site.

I also notice that every post was being deleted at one stage, nothing wrong with any of the posts but they were just being deleted for no real reason. Again not good.

And one final thing, posting something against a poster in a closed thread knowing well that they can't respond is quite poor from a member of the moderation team. I've flagged serious issues with the moderation here before all of which have been ignored.

Disappointing.

Irish Steve

billie1b wrote: »

15 years in the aviation industry and over the last while i've noticed that 'respected posters' like myself (not referring to myself as that, i've been referred to as that by others) who have good information and can offer a lot have stepped back and don't post as much.
I personally put it down to boards.ie getting too politically correct and afraid to leave peoples opinions that don't suit boards.ie' agenda up on the site, there's no legal aspect to it, boards.ie cannot and would not be held accountable for what posters say, if that was the case facebook, reddit, pprune etc etc including boards would be shut down, if anything was libelous it's the poster that would get contacted and dealt with, not boards.ie. Yes boards would be contacted by authorities for them to hand over information but they wouldn't and can't be held accountable for what people say on a public forum.

I am not privvy to the discussions that go on within the management structure of Boards.ie, but in a former existence a number of years ago, I was the No2 admin on a site that is probably regarded as the premier accident reporting site in the world, Aviation Herald, which at that time also had a very active forum that was very similar to the forum here, but specialising in aviation related content. I cannot think of another site that is as impartial and unbiased as AVHerald, but that has not stopped a number of airlines from threatening legal action against the site operator because they didn't like the tone or content of reports that were carried on the site, and I can assure you that if you think the moderation levels here are high, don't get to be a regular poster on Pprune, from personal experience the moderation levels there are massively higher than here.

Moderation on A&A is not too bad but you can notice the bias between whats allowed be said about certain airlines and whats not allowed be said about other certain airlines, it gets real annoying at times because certain mods have favourites and that shouldn't be the case, if you want to mod you should be impartial.

I can categorically state that I don't have a bias for or against certain airlines, and as far as I am concerned, if you think I have shown favour or been biased, then the way to deal with that is to report the post, or the lack of posts if we have deleted them, and let the category moderators or the admins look at what we've done. I don't think I have favourites either, I will admit that there are some posters who grind my gears, but I try to remain fair and objective with everyone, but hey, we're human, and can get caught at a bad moment by someone that's got an agenda as well.

In respect to 116, I deleted more posts out of that thread over the last 4 days than we've deleted in longer than I've been moderating the forum, and there's a whole multitude or reasons for that, between off topic posts, gratuitously offensive posts and attacks on other posters, and some posts that were unacceptable for other reasons, and not to put too fine a point on it, Thursday evening ended up being a full time job on just that thread for a number of hours, which was hard work, and one of the reasons why the admin team stepped in and temporarily closed the thread just before 0100. Some posts that were not in themselves overly controversial were also deleted because they quoted posts that had been removed, and selective editing causes more confusion than anything else.

I know the aviation industry is (with the possible exception of nuclear power) the most highly regulated and controlled industry in the world, and rightly so, and still accidents happen for reasons that only become clear when the investigators complete their work, and any serious accident these days usually results in significant changes that affect the whole industry. I am very sure that when the final AAIU report into 116 is released, there will be aspects of it that none of us expect.

I have my own feelings about the events of Monday, in the same way as I have looked at other incidents over the years, and come up with possible scenarios, I got into serious trouble a few years ago when the BA777 crashed at Heathrow, as I suggested very early on that it was a double engine failure, and the abuse I got for that (which was the eventual finding) was significant, I was told in no uncertain fashion that double engine failures like that "can't happen". OK, to split hairs, the engines as such didn't fail, but the absence of fuel to both was the finding.

The category mods, (and admins) will see your other comments, and I suspect they will be watching and listening quite carefully to what's being said, for better or worse, Boards.ie is a moderated service and that comes with both advantages and down sides. I'd like to think that most of the time, we get it right, but I'm also long enough in the tooth to know that there are times when it may not look like it, and occasions when we do get it wrong, which hopefully, we learn from.

Thanks for posting, we do need the input from the people in the industry with experience, that's what makes this board what it is, and rightly or wrongly, the 116 thread has generated over a quarter of a million hits in under a week, and I know that at one stage on one of the evenings, there was a 4 to 1 ratio in favour of visitors over members, so what's being said here is being seen by a very wide audience. I'm sitting here and on the TV in the background, they are discussing the problem of "fake news" on social media, and I'd like to hope that our readership numbers are as high as they are because we do take the time to try and ensure that we are not providing such "fake news".

Tenger

To add to the post above, feedback on the A&A is appreciated. We cant get it right everyday, or even most days. But if you're unhappy please let us know in a constructive manner. Thats why there is a feedback forum. Negative (or 'non positive') feedback can still be constructive.
EG. I have ussued 2 very public apologies in the past year where I made a mistake in judgement. I owned up to it l, rectified the mistake and we moved on.

JCX BXC

I do have to commend Tenger for this. If only it was replicated across the board.

JCX BXC

And to add, I've previously given feedback and it not being replied to at all. How are we users expected to give feedback if it would be ignored? I was informed that mods or cmods have no obligation to listen to feedback, which is entirely wrong in my opinion.