Problems with Council tennants and what can be done

all_names_gone

I am wondering if there is anything that can be done about problem tenant. Like this time bring the council to court for failing to do anything in this situation. Sorry this is a long one

So we have a neighbour and she can only be described as a scumbag of the lowest order. She has been living in the area for the past 3 years and is completely out of control and getting worse. We are all council tenants in an estate. There are 28 families and she is the only one that causes problems.

So some of her accomplishments, she has 2 children, which are being neglected / abused for want of a better word, 1 is 10, she is out of the house from morning till last thing at night or sent straight to her room and a 3 year old which is stuck indoors all day, while the mother is busy drinking or drugging all day sometimes both.

She attracts what can only be described as other scumbags, none of them work but drink all day, take drugs or sell drugs from the house, play dance music, loud all day everyday, this morning it started at 830am and it finished quite late last night. It only stopped for a while this morning so they could go and buy more drink and drugs.

So apart from that, as it is only the recent one she has:

Had a relationship with the neighbours 15 year old son
beat up the neighbours 15 year old
Got pregnant and had an abortion for the 15 year old.
Physical fighting with the 15 year olds mother.
Had gangs of underage kids in her house partying, drinking and drugging
The same kids were fighting with the 15 year old
Let heroin be sold from the house
The house was raided recently
The fella that is selling the drugs, also drives around in stolen cars
Lets her house be used as a combination of a drug den, party house and halfway house.
Anyone and everyone is freely using the house, junkies, homeless etc etc etc

And that is just some of the wonderful things about her. Last Summer she had a load of lads living with her that were drinking from 730 in the morning till 330 the following morning, screaming at the tops of their voices at people passing by, music blaring all through it Wednesday to Monday only stopping to go and buy more drink. It got that bad that a neighbour went up and sorted it out. And it must be pointed out that the baby is stuck in the middle of this, where she is kept while all of this is going on, I dont really want to think about it. During the night, I mean 3 am etc I can hear the baby screaming or running around

I say the kids are abused / neglected because, I have heard her screaming at the kids, especially the baby, I personally have heard her calling the baby a c*nt, while her boyfriends got a good laugh at it, I also heard her call the 10 year the same.

I have become worried about the children because there is a constant stream of men coming to the house, she breaks up with one boyfriend and within a day or two has another boyfriend living with her, till that ends and on and on. And with that volume of people coming and going, with the amount of drink and drugs involved its only a matter of time before something bad happens to the kids, if not already, which I dont like to think about.

She has no cooker, no kettle etc i dont know how the kids are being fed, she had a dog which she kept in a cage because she couldnt look after it, the dog is gone now.

So why have I resorted to asking a legal forum what to do? Because the guards have done nothing, except raid the house. Social services have done absolutely nothing at all, they visit, she spins a story and they leave, the council have done absolutely nothing as its still going and getting worse. She has been reported many times. And I find the social services are an absolute disgrace.

If we were in private rented housing she would have been gone and something would have been done about it by now.

We all signed a contract when moving in, about anti social behaviour etc etc etc, Im no legal expert but I understand that if a contract is signed and one party doesnt honour their end of the contract, that amounts to a breach of contract.

So after all of that I am wondering what are my options are, I know there is precedent for tenants suing private landlords about this sort of thing and winning, surely that should extend to suing the council for the exact same thing. I am prepared to fight this tooth and nail and go to any court out there to ensure the council live up to their obligations.

Any advice would be appreciated

mikeoneilly

Notify tusla re: the child neglect

all_names_gone

mikeoneilly wrote: »

Notify tusla re: the child neglect

I never thought of that.

Indricotherium

Notify RTB re: a landlord failing to provide a cooker

Mr. Incognito

Indricotherium wrote: »

Notify RTB re: a landlord failing to provide a cooker

Seriously?

OP

This is a very serious matter and I would.

1. Call to your Local TD about it.

2. Speak to your neighbours and see if they will sign a petition or make a joint representation.

3. Record some of the behaviour going on about the place and show same to Social Services.

4. Send the joint representation letters to each Department and cc the Other. I.e Send a letter to the Guards and cc Social Services and Tulsa and the local TD.

5. Set out that first and foremost is your concern for the children.

noble00

Hi as someone already said I would ring Tulsa immediately, God this must be terrible to live near ,those poor children

all_names_gone

Indricotherium wrote: »

Is it?

The OP has been sitting on knowledge of a statutory rape since last summer.

Nice try, I havnt been sitting on anything of knowledge of any statutory rape, the parents of the child, sorted this out. They gave her the money for the abortion. As I said the guards did nothing.

Anyway, dont be using my thread to start rows, if you have nothing constructive to add please dont reply, this is serious **** and not time for nonsense

Indricotherium

all_names_gone wrote: »

Nice try, I havnt been sitting on anything of knowledge of any statutory rape, the parents of the child, sorted this out. They gave her the money for the abortion. As I said the guards did nothing.

Anyway, dont be using my thread to start rows, if you have nothing constructive to add please dont reply, this is serious **** and not time for nonsense

Fair enough I'll take it down.

all_names_gone

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Seriously?

OP

This is a very serious matter and I would.

1. Call to your Local TD about it.

2. Speak to your neighbours and see if they will sign a petition or make a joint representation.

3. Record some of the behaviour going on about the place and show same to Social Services.

4. Send the joint representation letters to each Department and cc the Other. I.e Send a letter to the Guards and cc Social Services and Tulsa and the local TD.

5. Set out that first and foremost is your concern for the children.

Yes I thought about going to the other neighbours to see if they would join a petition. i know a few of them have also reported her to social services etc. So basically it hasnt just come from our house, the neighbours have also been trying too

nuac

Make a written complaint to the Local Authority Housing Office

JPCN1

Can you take an action against the council.
Folk who behave in this manner should forgo their housing rights.

GM228

JPCN1 wrote: »

Can you take an action against the council.
Folk who behave in this manner should forgo their housing rights.

Yes you can take a case against the council as the landlord for allowing the bahaviour of it's tenants.

all_names_gone

And just to add, one of those neighbours who reported her is a nurse and she knew all of the numbers to contact and nothing happened.

all_names_gone

GM228 wrote: »

Yes you can take a case against the council as the landlord for allowing the bahaviour of it's tenants.

See thats what I needed to know, I think its the only time they will do anything, is when legal action is being threatened.

I have also thought of actually going to the media about the lack of action on behalf of the state regarding the children.

alig123aileen

How terrible for you living beside that carryon. We had a similar problem with a council estate near us and three families anti social behaviour ruining it for everyone. We formed a residents association and contacted all our county councillors. Because they are council tenants the council must enforce their anti social behaviour policy (you should request a copy of this policy from your councillor) and and you and your neighbours can report confidentially to the council lest you fear reprisals. If you decide to start a residents association your councillor will help you set one up its not mandatory but there is strength in numbers. In our case Two years later one family left and there is no trouble since as a result of council warnings to evict . Make your council responsible as they are accountable as its a tenant of theirs but report everything to the gardai and make sure they log each call and its good to get a petition signed from all your neighbours requesting immediate action . Best of luck and hope things get better for you.

Red Kev

Write everything down. Keep an accurate log of all incidents, especially every time the older child is outside late, everytime that you hear the younger one being abused. Take recordings if you can. Take as many photos as you can, as you dare. Put all this together in a PDF document. Get some of the neighbours to back you up. Focus on the child abuse aspect.

Then go to every councillor in your ward, every TD in your constituency and any Senators. Go to Tusla, the council Housing officer and eny other person who you think is responsible in the council. Try to do this with somebody else.

Give them a few weeks to sort it out, if there's no progress after 2-3 weeks tell them you're going to the media with it. The politicians especially won't accept that and things should move swiftly.

You'll especially need to keep an eye on the eldest girl, she is open to massive sexual abuse. Try to get the nurse to keep an eye on her as well.

all_names_gone

alig123aileen wrote: »

How terrible for you living beside that carryon. We had a similar problem with a council estate near us and three families anti social behaviour ruining it for everyone. We formed a residents association and contacted all our county councillors. Because they are council tenants the council must enforce their anti social behaviour policy (you should request a copy of this policy from your councillor) and and you and your neighbours can report confidentially to the council lest you fear reprisals. If you decide to start a residents association your councillor will help you set one up its not mandatory but there is strength in numbers. In our case Two years later one family left and there is no trouble since as a result of council warnings to evict . Make your council responsible as they are accountable as its a tenant of theirs but report everything to the gardai and make sure they log each call and its good to get a petition signed from all your neighbours requesting immediate action . Best of luck and hope things get better for you.

Yes will definitely get onto the council again. Like its not a situation where we just dont like someone, a few neighbours have had issues. As I say the neighbour who is a nurse has even gotten involved and reported her to the relevant people.

At least your answer has given a bit of hope that something does get done

all_names_gone

all_names_gone wrote: »

Nice try, I havnt been sitting on anything of knowledge of any statutory rape, the parents of the child, sorted this out. They gave her the money for the abortion. As I said the guards did nothing.

The parents gave her money for an abortion? Did they actually report her to the guards or tusla, in relation to the child?
If there are genuine child protection concerns, then i would be very surprised that tusla/ social workers are not monitoring the family.
You probably wouldn't know because it's not really your business, if you know what i mean.

The last thing anyone does is actually take the kids away.
I'd be more interested in the children's welfare tbh

all_names_gone

Red Kev wrote: »

Write everything down. Keep an accurate log of all incidents, especially every time the older child is outside late, everytime that you hear the younger one being abused. Take recordings if you can. Take as many photos as you can, as you dare. Put all this together in a PDF document. Get some of the neighbours to back you up. Focus on the child abuse aspect.

Then go to every councillor in your ward, every TD in your constituency and any Senators. Go to Tusla, the council Housing officer and eny other person who you think is responsible in the council. Try to do this with somebody else.

Give them a few weeks to sort it out, if there's no progress after 2-3 weeks tell them you're going to the media with it. The politicians especially won't accept that and things should move swiftly.

You'll especially need to keep an eye on the eldest girl, she is open to massive sexual abuse. Try to get the nurse to keep an eye on her as well.

You see, this is something that worries me, with the sheer amount of drink, drugs and men coming to the house all the time, its a bit of an eye opener. Usually I wouldnt involve myself in someone elses business, but something isnt sitting right with me and feel I have to get involved.

It was the nurse that actually opened my eys a bit as I thought that myself and the partner were the only ones who seen what was going on but she was the one who brough this to the attention of my partner.

all_names_gone

bubblypop wrote: »

The parents gave her money for an abortion? Did they actually report her to the guards or tusla, in relation to the child?
If there are genuine child protection concerns, then i would be very surprised that tusla/ social workers are not monitoring the family.
You probably wouldn't know because it's not really your business, if you know what i mean.

The last thing anyone does is actually take the kids away.
I'd be more interested in the children's welfare tbh

They did, they knew what she was like, what the house was like, the people going to and from it and knew she couldnt look after the two she had. Personally I think they made the right choice in that situation, considering everything that is going on now.

They went to the guards a couple of times and the council etc etc. And the response was shocking, the council told her that it would be best if the son didnt live there anymore because he wasnt on the books. The guards didnt follow up on it because the son wouldnt give a statement.

And as far as the social services go, they told her a neighbour has reported her, they told her a few times, not the names but just a neighbour. My partner talks to her, to keep the peace if you will because we are next door neighbours and she told my partner this.

pilly

Indricotherium wrote: »

Notify RTB re: a landlord failing to provide a cooker

It's a council house.

the_syco

JPCN1 wrote: »

Can you take an action against the council.
Folk who behave in this manner should forgo their housing rights.

She's been there three years; I'm guessing that she was moved from somewhere else. When she's moved on, it'll be to wreck some other community. I can't see the CC putting all nuisance cases into the one estate.

Thus, I'm wondering if the CC are trying to ignore the issue, as they know they'll have to move the problem person into another house.

OP; get rid of the kids first. Then get rid of her. She may not be entitled to a large house should she not have kids.

all_names_gone

all_names_gone wrote: »

They did, they knew what she was like, what the house was like, the people going to and from it and knew she couldnt look after the two she had. Personally I think they made the right choice in that situation, considering everything that is going on now.

They went to the guards a couple of times and the council etc etc. And the response was shocking, the council told her that it would be best if the son didnt live there anymore because he wasnt on the books. The guards didnt follow up on it because the son wouldnt give a statement.

And as far as the social services go, they told her a neighbour has reported her, they told her a few times, not the names but just a neighbour. My partner talks to her, to keep the peace if you will because we are next door neighbours and she told my partner this.

But the guards have to report this to tusla, it's mandatory. When it relates to child protection, there is no choice. So tusla must have been informed, and if not then some guard has not his/her job. Is there some reason the parents of the 15 year old didn't report to tusla themselves?

pilly

the_syco wrote: »

She's been there three years; I'm guessing that she was moved from somewhere else. When she's moved on, it'll be to wreck some other community. I can't see the CC putting all nuisance cases into the one estate.

Thus, I'm wondering if the CC are trying to ignore the issue, as they know they'll have to move the problem person into another house.

OP; get rid of the kids first. Then get rid of her. She may not be entitled to a large house should she not have kids.

They council don't have to indefinitely provide accommodation. If someone is evicted for anti-social behaviour they're considered to have made themselves homeless.

all_names_gone

bubblypop wrote: »

But the guards have to report this to tusla, it's mandatory. When it relates to child protection, there is no choice. So tusla must have been informed, and if not then some guard has not his/her job. Is there some reason the parents of the 15 year old didn't report to tusla themselves?

Perhaps, I am not sure to be honest, I didnt like to pry into too much details with the parents of the child, I kind of just listened to what I was told. As you can understand it would have been a personal issue and traumatic enough for them too.

But I agree someone isnt doing their job, which is shocking considering the revelations of Tuam last week, to think its still as bad today is just sad really.

all_names_gone

the_syco wrote: »

She's been there three years; I'm guessing that she was moved from somewhere else. When she's moved on, it'll be to wreck some other community. I can't see the CC putting all nuisance cases into the one estate.

Thus, I'm wondering if the CC are trying to ignore the issue, as they know they'll have to move the problem person into another house.

OP; get rid of the kids first. Then get rid of her. She may not be entitled to a large house should she not have kids.

We all moved in together 3 years ago, apparently she used to live where I grew up but I didnt know her but I knew a guy who used to go out with her, she came from rent allowance but the guy she was living with, the father of her second child used to sell heroin from that house too, lovely people

pilly

all_names_gone wrote: »

Perhaps, I am not sure to be honest, I didnt like to pry into too much details with the parents of the child, I kind of just listened to what I was told. As you can understand it would have been a personal issue and traumatic enough for them too.

But I agree someone isnt doing their job, which is shocking considering the revelations of Tuam last week, to think its still as bad today is just sad really.

Have you spoken to TUSLA though OP? It's all well and good saying it's disgraceful but it doesn't appear that you yourself have actually spoken to TUSLA.

I wouldn't be that concerned about the 15 year old neighbour to be honest, I'm sure he knew what he was doing anyway, getting his hole. I'd be very concerned about the 10 year old and 3 year old. Those children are being abused and neglected.

all_names_gone

pilly wrote: »

Have you spoken to TUSLA though OP? It's all well and good saying it's disgraceful but it doesn't appear that you yourself have actually spoken to TUSLA.

I wouldn't be that concerned about the 15 year old neighbour to be honest, I'm sure he knew what he was doing anyway, getting his hole. I'd be very concerned about the 10 year old and 3 year old. Those children are being abused and neglected.

Well to be honest I didnt think of Tusla till I wrote this thread, so will get onto that or talk to my nurse neighbour, I know she contacted a whole lot of places

Indricotherium

all_names_gone wrote: »

Well to be honest I didnt think of Tusla till I wrote this thread, so will get onto that or talk to my nurse neighbour, I know she contacted a whole lot of places

If you know about a child being sexually abused the correct action is to report it immediately, not rely on others.

In all cases it is better that the rape of a child be reported twice, rather than not at all.

pilly

Indricotherium wrote: »

If you know about a child being sexually abused the correct action is to report it immediately, not rely on others.

In all cases it is better that the rape of a child be reported twice, rather than not at all.

Now hang on, OP never said that they knew a child was being raped or sexually abused.

Red Kev

all_names_gone wrote: »

Well to be honest I didnt think of Tusla till I wrote this thread, so will get onto that or talk to my nurse neighbour, I know she contacted a whole lot of places

Like I said, get a portfolio together of all comings and goings. Contact Tusla, then email them and CC in every political representative in the area. Keep following up with them until they all respond to you, by at least acknowledging that they have read the report that you wrote.

If the whole thing blows up in the future and it's found out that nobody di anything, then nobody can say "We didn't know".

Those kids are being emotionally and physically abused, it's very likely they are being sexually abused, or aren't that far from it. They need saving, even if the mother is too far gone.

all_names_gone

Indricotherium wrote: »

If you know about a child being sexually abused the correct action is to report it immediately, not rely on others.

In all cases it is better that the rape of a child be reported twice, rather than not at all.

Yes I never said anything about rape, the bit with the 15 year old was dealt with by his parents.

I am not saying that the 10 or 3 year old is being raped or sexually abused, definitely emotional and or physical abuse and neglect. I think we must be careful about saying things like that.

ED E

Taking your description at face value, which we've no reason not to:

A. She's a piece of dirt
B. Will never be able to independently house herself (and kids, if let keep them)

So what can the council really do? They move her and the problem just starts in the next area. People like that are very unlikely to change.

Its terrible for you, but from the CoCos perspective not much can be done on the macro level. Best off trying to improve your station as to leave the area.

Indricotherium

all_names_gone wrote: »

Yes I never said anything about rape, the bit with the 15 year old was dealt with by his parents.

I am not saying that the 10 or 3 year old is being raped or sexually abused, definitely emotional and or physical abuse and neglect. I think we must be careful about saying things like that.

all_names_gone wrote: »

Had a relationship with the neighbours 15 year old son
beat up the neighbours 15 year old
Got pregnant and had an abortion for the 15 year old.

I think you have said that

all_names_gone

Indricotherium wrote: »

I think you have said that

Well then I misread your last comment and thought you were talking about the other children. But I did mention a few times the parents of the 15 year old sorted it out.

all_names_gone

ED E wrote: »

Taking your description at face value, which we've no reason not to:

A. She's a piece of dirt
B. Will never be able to independently house herself (and kids, if let keep them)

So what can the council really do? They move her and the problem just starts in the next area. People like that are very unlikely to change.

Its terrible for you, but from the CoCos perspective not much can be done on the macro level. Best off trying to improve your station as to leave the area.

Yes, I am looking into getting out of where we are and still to come to a decision, its not that easy though we have 3 kids of our own so will have to put a bit of planning in.

Loveinapril

In situations like this, you CANNOT rely on others to do anything. It is your duty to report child protection concerns to your local duty social work department (Tusla). Don't talk to your other neighbours, don't ask the nurse lady, do it now! It doesn't matter who she reported it to, you have your own separate concerns and need to report them. Phone your local council and report all the anti social behaviour too. And everytime there is another incident of anti social behavior, report that too. You have let this go on for far too long and with risk of being harsh, I think it is a disgrace that you have not kicked up more of a fuss regarding those kids- all three of them. A 15 year old was the victim of statutory rape. YOU should have reported this. And so should everybody else who knew. Parents "dealing with it" means nothing. If a grown man groomed and had sex with a 15 year old girl there would be a lynch mob.

pilly

Loveinapril wrote: »

In situations like this, you CANNOT rely on others to do anything. It is your duty to report child protection concerns to your local duty social work department (Tusla). Don't talk to your other neighbours, don't ask the nurse lady, do it now! It doesn't matter who she reported it to, you have your own separate concerns and need to report them. Phone your local council and report all the anti social behaviour too. And everytime there is another incident of anti social behavior, report that too. You have let this go on for far too long and with risk of being harsh, I think it is a disgrace that you have not kicked up more of a fuss regarding those kids- all three of them. A 15 year old was the victim of statutory rape. YOU should have reported this. And so should everybody else who knew. Parents "dealing with it" means nothing. If a grown man groomed and had sex with a 15 year old girl there would be a lynch mob.

OP has already stated that the Garda were informed of the incident and couldn't take it further because the 15 year old wouldn't make a statement which makes sense, they couldn't do anything about it in that case.

I don't doubt there are serious concerns regarding this woman's own children but I think people focusing on the 15 year old are going way over the top.

all_names_gone

Loveinapril wrote: »

In situations like this, you CANNOT rely on others to do anything. It is your duty to report child protection concerns to your local duty social work department (Tusla). Don't talk to your other neighbours, don't ask the nurse lady, do it now! It doesn't matter who she reported it to, you have your own separate concerns and need to report them. Phone your local council and report all the anti social behaviour too. And everytime there is another incident of anti social behavior, report that too. You have let this go on for far too long and with risk of being harsh, I think it is a disgrace that you have not kicked up more of a fuss regarding those kids- all three of them. A 15 year old was the victim of statutory rape. YOU should have reported this. And so should everybody else who knew. Parents "dealing with it" means nothing. If a grown man groomed and had sex with a 15 year old girl there would be a lynch mob.

His parents dealt with it, that is the end of the matter. If you came here to have a go, please dont, as I said earlier, this is serious ****, not time for taking the moral high ground.

And I said many times, she has been reported many times, nobody has done anything. My partner reported her about the children, my partner reported her about the drug dealing, which led to the raid. the nurse who has all of the relevant info reported her, nothing has been done.

Hence the reason I am on an anonymous board looking for advice, because clearly nothing has worked. Which leads me to believe you didnt read anything in this thread and just decided to answer because if you had you would have read that all of the things mentioned were done, nobody is doing anything. Nobody. I have lost count how many times social services were involved.

the_syco

pilly wrote: »

They council don't have to indefinitely provide accommodation. If someone is evicted for anti-social behaviour they're considered to have made themselves homeless.

By themselves, sure. With a family of kids; the media would have a field day, and they'd be put back into the house with a load of compo.

He who shouts loudest gets heard. And I'm sure a lot would decide to hear the problem woman.

Indricotherium wrote: »

I think you have said that

She said that the problem woman had statutory raped the neighbours 15 year old son, but didn't say that the dispos kids were raped.

Regarding the 15 year old, the problem woman would be in jail if the sexes were reversed, but apart from the 15 year old male getting high fives and street cred (and probably every STD in the book), nothing will happen to the problem woman.

Loveinapril

[quote="all_names_gone;102925470"

Hence the reason I am on an anonymous board looking for advice, because clearly nothing has worked. Which leads me to believe you didnt read anything in this thread and just decided to answer because if you had you would have read that all of the things mentioned were done, nobody is doing anything. Nobody. I have lost count how many times social services were involved.[/quote]

I read the thread but your first posts say that you think Social Services are useless, then you admit to not thinking about contacting Tusla regarding the child protection concerns. People rely on others to do the reporting too often, and that is how children slip through the cracks. I may have missed before where you mentioned your partner reported incidences. It appeared that you were alluding to reports being made, none of them by you. I work in a similar area so feel so strongly about each individual person with a concern making a report. Every time a report is made, it adds to the file, which should increase the level of social work involvement. It is so terrible but sometimes these services (council, Tusla etc.) just need to be harassed.

all_names_gone

Ok lets put the problem of the 15 year behind us. He didnt want to make a statement, the case could go no further. The parents paid for the abortion, which I think was the right decision in this case. So to me that part is dealt with.

The real problem here is two children and serious anti-social behaviour

Robbo

Moderation: This is all getting a bit Albert Square. OP you have your answer, thread closed.