Push scooters in cycle lanes question

blapabrew22

So I've been thinking of getting a push scooter to help me speed up my commute to work, mainly to get down the canal quicker than walking. However, my original intent was to use the cycle lane seeing as I've seen others use it, they seem to keep up ok, plus is by far the smoothest/best surface available!

With that said, are there any rules, laws, or just general 'social cycle/scooter best practice' that restricts use of the cycle lane? Don't want to go invest in one of these if I'll be stuck battling cars on bumpy streets for such a short commute, but at the same time not looking to break any rules (written or otherwise) of the road.

Did some reading around other sites and cycling blogs but couldn't find any official regulations.

Not sure if this is best placed in Cycling or Commuting, so apologies in advance if it needs to be moved.

Thanks.

Wishbone Ash

What do you mean by a 'push scooter'? A motorised version of one of those yokes you stand on with one foot and push along with the other?

Eamonnator

https://www.skatepro.ie/90-13949.htm?stockcode=NTGB498-182&gclid=CjwKEAjwqZ7GBRC1srKSv9TV_iwSJADKTjaDJv_nJYcDh595hjUk7XTkEgihDxaLmKppcFA7mtEADhoC1wPw_wcB

I thought something like this.

blapabrew22

Exactly Eamonnator. Not motorized, although I wouldn't be against one, however figured it's cheaper to try the manual version first.

Wishbone Ash

Would you not just get a second hand bicycle - it would be much quicker?

niceonetom

A scooter? Good god, the indignity of it.

Zen0

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Would you not just get a second hand bicycle - it would be much quicker?

That sums up the difficulty with alternative forms of transport in busy cycling lanes. Their speed doesn't tend to match that of cyclists. Skaters are particularly problematic; not only are they a lot slower, but the side to side motion of skating makes overtaking difficult.

Fighting Tao

Scooters are becoming more popular and are a pain when in the cycle track and always seem to hinder cyclists. Please note the name of the tarmac you plan to use contains the word 'cycle'. It's bit of a give away. Get yourself a cheap bike and you'll get to where you're going in a third the time of a push scooter.

Annie get your Run

Please don't use your scooter on a cycle track. Had one of these on my route today, the path beside the cycle track was completely clear, the 'rider' or whatever you call scooter folks was going the same direction as me so couldn't see that I was coming up behind him, had to let a shout for him to move :rolleyes:

ted1

Eamonnator wrote: »

https://www.skatepro.ie/90-13949.htm?stockcode=NTGB498-182&gclid=CjwKEAjwqZ7GBRC1srKSv9TV_iwSJADKTjaDJv_nJYcDh595hjUk7XTkEgihDxaLmKppcFA7mtEADhoC1wPw_wcB

I thought something like this.

To slow for cycle lanes, if you were to get one I'd recommend this one.
I use it for scoots with the kids around the park and such.
https://www.bopster.eu/b-pro-adult-urban-folding-suspension-town-commute-scooter-street-wheel-200mm-kick-black

Wishbone Ash

Annie get your Run wrote: »

... so couldn't see that I was coming up behind him, had to let a shout for him to move :rolleyes:

Not the wisest thing to do as you could have startled him causing you both to collide. You say the path beside him was clear - why not use it to manoeuvre around?

Annie get your Run

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Not the wisest thing to do as you could have startled him causing you both to collide. You say the path beside him was clear - why not use it to manoeuvre around?

It's illegal for me to be on a footpath, I didn't wait until the last sec to let him know and I had slowed right down. How did I end up in the wrong here?

ted1

Annie get your Run wrote: »

It's illegal for me to be on a footpath, I didn't wait until the last sec to let him know and I had slowed right down. How did I end up in the wrong here?

As you we're keeping within the law, why did you ring your legally required bell?

iwillhtfu

Zen0 wrote: »

That sums up the difficulty with alternative forms of transport in busy cycling lanes. Their speed doesn't tend to match that of cyclists. Skaters are particularly problematic; not only are they a lot slower, but the side to side motion of skating makes overtaking difficult.

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Scooters are becoming more popular and are a pain when in the cycle track and always seem to hinder cyclists. Please note the name of the tarmac you plan to use contains the word 'cycle'. It's bit of a give away. Get yourself a cheap bike and you'll get to where you're going in a third the time of a push scooter.

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Please don't use your scooter on a cycle track. Had one of these on my route today, the path beside the cycle track was completely clear, the 'rider' or whatever you call scooter folks was going the same direction as me so couldn't see that I was coming up behind him, had to let a shout for him to move :rolleyes:

I'd swear I've heard similar mouthed by motorists about cyclists. Interesting

Fighting Tao

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I'd swear I've heard similar mouthed by motorists about cyclists. Interesting

Difference is that a cycle track is exclusively for cycling. Roads are for all traffic including bikes.

iwillhtfu

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Difference is that a cycle track is exclusively for cycling. Roads are for all traffic including bikes.

Hmm not necessarily always the case to be honest.

Also lets be honest we have little to no specific cycle tracks over here it's basically always the road.

Fighting Tao

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Hmm not necessarily always the case to be honest.

Also lets be honest we have little to no specific cycle tracks over here it's basically always the road.

The OP was talking about the canal which is a cycle track.

iwillhtfu

Fighting Tao wrote: »

The OP was talking about the canal which is a cycle track.

Ah I thought he meant along the cycle lane on the road next to the canal.

I don't know the canal cycle track but if it were a bicycle only an no cars then i'd have no issue with a scooter on it. Buy a bell how many of them can there realistically be.

My original post about double standards is now even more apt imo.

ED E

blapabrew22 wrote: »

Exactly Eamonnator. Not motorized, although I wouldn't be against one, however figured it's cheaper to try the manual version first.

And a motorised one would count as a vehicle that could never be road legal as far as I understand the law.

Wishbone Ash

Annie get your Run wrote: »

... How did I end up in the wrong here?

I didn't say you were wrong - I said it wasn't the wisest thing to do. We are often required to adapt to the behaviours displayed by others for our safety and theirs.

Annie get your Run

ted1 wrote: »

As you we're keeping within the law, why did you ring your legally required bell?

I have a road bike, bells are not a legal requirement on a racing bike but thanks for your input.

Wishbone Ash

Annie get your Run wrote: »

.... bells are not a legal requirement on a racing bike....

Only if travelling to or from a race!

John_Rambo

Jesus.

tomasrojo

I have a confession to make; since I got the cargo bike, which came with a bell, I now like bells. Mostly just for a mild advance warning to pedestrians or other cyclists coming around blind corners, and I don't regard them as anything even approaching essential (whatever the law says), but for the first time in many years, my bikes are now fully compliant with that particular dead-letter law.

EDIT: The terrible evidence in a terrible photograph:

SteM

Picked one of these up for my cyclocross that I use for my commute https://triggerbell.com.

It fits well on drop handlebars.

Alanstrainor

SteM wrote: »

Picked one of these up for my cyclocross that I use for my commute https://triggerbell.com.

It fits well on drop handlebars.

I've had two of these, both broke quickly. The first was replaced for free, when the second broke I gave up. The striker spring over extends and stops ringing. Neither lasted more than a 2 weeks.

Macy0161

My commuter has a bell. Shout is still the only real hope of being heard with headphones tbh.

If you want to use cycle lanes, don't even get a bike, get a proper scooter and you can use mandatory cycle lanes at your convenience in my experience....

Macy0161

iwillhtfu wrote: »

My original post about double standards is now even more apt imo.

It's not really. Never seen it argued that cyclists are entitled, safe or should use motorways, which would have more equivalence imo.

cython

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Only if travelling to or from a race!

Not quite

S.I. No. 190/1963 - Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations, 1963. wrote:

.

93. (1) Every pedal cycle (other than a cycle constructed or adapted for use as a racing cycle) while used in a public place shall be fitted with an audible warning device consisting of a bell capable of being heard at a reasonable distance, and no other type of audible warning instrument shall be fitted to a pedal cycle while used in a public place.

So more to do with construction than usage at the time of being checked.

Wishbone Ash

cython wrote: »

Not quite ...

I'm pretty sure a Boardsie posted a link a while back showing more updated legislation regarding going to or travelling from a race.

(Prior to that I had presumed it wasn't required on a 'racing' bike).

check_six

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm pretty sure a Boardsie posted a link a while back showing more updated legislation regarding going to or travelling from a race.

(Prior to that I had presumed it wasn't required on a 'racing' bike).

Out there... it's *all* a race!

Chuchote

OP, I wouldn't advise it. Scooter wheels are too small to deal with the potholes, ridges, manhole covers and other irregularities that are common on cycle paths.

Bells: I have one of those ting-ting-ting bells on the good bike, and while pretty and a beloved gift, it's a pain in the ass and I don't know that people really recognise the sound as a bike bell; it also doesn't penetrate very well through earbuds or earphones. I have the brring-brring kind on the workhorse bike - but it's just not very good, and I'm constantly having to unscrew the lid a bit to make it louder. I think since bicycle bells started being made of aluminium rather than steel, the sound is not loud or clear enough.

tomasrojo

You can still get brass bicycle bells. They're a bit more expensive, but they're louder and sound nicer. Don't think any bell can be heard over very loud headphones though, and I don't think they're any good for warning people in cars.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

You can still get brass bicycle bells. They're a bit more expensive, but they're louder and sound nicer. Don't think any bell can be heard over very loud headphones though, and I don't think they're any good for warning people in cars.

The ting-ting kind. Really only designed for cuteness, not warning. The kind I want is the kind I had on my 1960s bike, with a brrrrringggg that would make people leap shrieking out of the way, wild-eyed with terror.

beauf

I see a few train commuters using scooters. I've only seen them on the pavements.

Victor

Hills may be an issue.

You could try a pedal scooter

Note that if it has a motor and does have pedals you can cycle with, it may be a Pedelec and will be considered a pedal cycle, if the maximum power and maximum speed are restricted to certain levels.

Note that if it has a motor and doesn't have pedals you can cycle with - a motorised scooter- it's a mechanically propelled vehicle and you need the full works - type approval, registration, tax, insurance, NCT, embarrassment ...

CramCycle

tomasrojo wrote: »

I have a confession to make; since I got the cargo bike, which came with a bell, I now like bells.

I got one free at the Irish cargo bike championships 3 years ago. It is big and purple. It sounds like an old fashioned, wake the house up, doorbell. I love it.

I'd have no issue with the scooter on that path, plenty of people using it already. For anyone using that path, if a scooter on it is your biggest issue of the day, then either everyone is dead, or you are one of the bigger problems with that path.

TooObvious

CramCycle wrote: »

I got one free at the Irish cargo bike championships 3 years ago.

I've heard it all now - There's an Irish Cargo Bike Championship??? How does that work?

Kaisr Sose

CramCycle wrote: »

I'd have no issue with the scooter on that path, plenty of people using it already. For anyone using that path, if a scooter on it is your biggest issue of the day, then either everyone is dead, or you are one of the bigger problems with that path.

The issue is whether they should be or can be used on cycle paths. IMO - no. That's not saying I fit your theory as outlined above but the clue is in "cycle lane". They are not footpaths (except where the powers that be had mixed the two), running tracks, dog walking tracks, scatrboard tracks or scooter lanes...they are cycle lanes. The footpath is the place for the scooter.

By the way I seen a mother and child on an electric one this am. They nearly hit a car as they could not stop before the end of the path at the junction. The only reason they did not was because the car pulled away just in time to avoid a collision. Really responsible parenting!

CramCycle

TooObvious wrote: »

I've heard it all now - There's an Irish Cargo Bike Championship??? How does that work?

In the pheonix park every year for the last 3. Run in conjunction with different cargo bike shops, bike week and some embassies of more cycle friendly nations. They close off a section of the park and have races along it with a league table. There is a collect the groceries race, sprint with passengers, pick up passengers while U turning, somethingg akin to a jousting competition (to collect rings, not knock off other bike users). Its a bit of craic and a nice family day out.

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

The issue is whether they should be or can be used on cycle paths. IMO - no. That's not saying I fit your theory as outlined above but the clue is in "cycle lane". They are not footpaths (except where the powers that be had mixed the two), running tracks, dog walking tracks, scatrboard tracks or scooter lanes...they are cycle lanes. The footpath is the place for the scooter.

I have no idea what the legalities are, nor could I imagine that the powers that be thought about legislating for adults on push scooters. As a guess, they are closer to bicycle than any other form of transport, and probably should be treated as such. They certainly should not be on footpaths, and I would treat them no different than meeting a slower cyclist. They certainly can be on the bike path, whether they should be, is a matter of debate, not sure it is a big enough issue that members of the Senate are going to debate it although considering the menace of seagulls was considered worthy, who knows.
The footpath is not the place for an adult scooterer either though, and I certainly would prefer them in the bike path rather than the footpath.

beauf

I doubt there will ever be enough scooters for it to cause a problem.

Pinch Flat

TooObvious wrote: »

I've heard it all now - There's an Irish Cargo Bike Championship??? How does that work?

Ye, in the Phoenix Park. Gone there myself a few times - got to trial lone out with the little fella up front. Great craic.

Arcade_Tryer

CramCycle wrote: »

I have no idea what the legalities are, nor could I imagine that the powers that be thought about legislating for adults on push scooters. As a guess, they are closer to bicycle than any other form of transport, and probably should be treated as such. They certainly should not be on footpaths, and I would treat them no different than meeting a slower cyclist. They certainly can be on the bike path, whether they should be, is a matter of debate, not sure it is a big enough issue that members of the Senate are going to debate it although considering the menace of seagulls was considered worthy, who knows.
The footpath is not the place for an adult scooterer either though, and I certainly would prefer them in the bike path rather than the footpath.

A push scooter is closer to a skateboard or roller blades (except safer) in my estimation, taking into account size, speed and potential danger to pedestrians. The place for a push scooter is on the footpath. Cycle lanes are for bicycles, and should remain specifically for that purpose.

Link to an article about a guy who commutes via push scooter in London. Note the part about using the footpath.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/travelling-to-work-by-scooter-is-faster-than-walking-and-less-sweaty-than-cycling-so-why-aren-t-we-9874017.html

Tigger

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

A push scooter is closer to a skateboard or roller blades (except safer) in my estimation, taking into account size, speed and potential danger to pedestrians. The place for a push scooter is on the footpath. Cycle lanes are for bicycles, and should remain specifically for that purpose.

Link to an article about a guy who commutes via push scooter in London. Note the part about using the footpath.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/travelling-to-work-by-scooter-is-faster-than-walking-and-less-sweaty-than-cycling-so-why-aren-t-we-9874017.html

Did you just assume his gender

ED E

Problems with push scooters:

• Low turning radius/momentum - impossible to safely overtake, a cyclist wont do a 90* turn in 50cm
• Relatively slow compared to a collumn of cyclists
• No existing legislation controlling them for use on a roadway
• Appear to drivers like peds - If a driver sees an upright person over a row of slow cars they'll assume they're on the path

They really dont fit either, but adding more to our roads which are already congested and mis managed is probably not a great idea.

Passed a Boosted Board using the cycle lane in the opposite direction last week, technically could be done for No Tax, No Insurance, No NCT, Uncertified etc though Im not sure a Garda would know/bother.

Arcade_Tryer

Tigger wrote: »

Did you just assume his gender

Not sure? And sure as hell don't care.

ED E wrote: »

Problems with push scooters:

• Low turning radius/momentum - impossible to safely overtake, a cyclist wont do a 90* turn in 50cm
• Relatively slow compared to a collumn of cyclists
• No existing legislation controlling them for use on a roadway
• Appear to drivers like peds - If a driver sees an upright person over a row of slow cars they'll assume they're on the path

They really dont fit either, but adding more to our roads which are already congested and mis managed is probably not a great idea.
.

Push scooters are fine on footpaths. Restricting their use to cycle lanes and roads would be ridiculous for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it would be incredibly dangerous to use one on the road. Cyclists of all people should understand this. Secondly, it would make them impractical, given the main advantage of a push scooter is the increased mobility it offers as opposed to even a bike; short city commutes at relatively low speeds without the need for expensive and cumbersome bicycles and gear.

Tigger

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Not sure? And sure as hell don't care.
Push scooters are fine on footpaths. Restricting their use to cycle lanes and roads would be ridiculous for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it would be incredibly dangerous to use one on the road. Cyclists of all people should understand this. Secondly, it would make them impractical, given the main advantage of a push scooter is the increased mobility it offers as opposed to even a bike; short city commutes at relatively low speeds without the need for expensive and cumbersome bicycles and gear.

The writer is called Jane

Arcade_Tryer

Tigger wrote: »

The writer is called Jane

Did you just assume their gender?

triggermortis

When I lived in Zurich it was common to see loads of people using push scooters between their bus/tram/train journeys.
My 5 year old insists on taking hers in the car every morning to pre-school to skate from the car into the school. I rode it back to the car one morning and still have nightmares from the abuse and catcalls directed at me from a yard full of 5 - 10 year olds! I will only ride it around the garden now (usually after dark, just to be safe)

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Please don't use your scooter on a cycle track. Had one of these on my route today, the path beside the cycle track was completely clear, the 'rider' or whatever you call scooter folks was going the same direction as me so couldn't see that I was coming up behind him, had to let a shout for him to move :rolleyes:

Would you have the same approach as a slow moving cyclist? Or are they exempt from experiencing your behavior? Why exactly should the scooter move out of your way? Why didn't you wait to overtake safely?

They really dont fit either, but adding more to our roads which are already congested and mis managed is probably not a great idea.

Are you referring to motorized vehicles or the scooter? If the vehicle is capable of 20 Kmph+ then you could say why would they not be allowed on the road too?

In Germany all wheeled transport (without motor) uses the cycle lane, there's no issues at all. Inline skates, scooters, skateboards etc.

Like motorists, cyclists need to adjust their mentality to cater for the "new" form of transport. This idea that cycle lanes are exclusively for cycles is no different to what a lot of car/van/bus/truck/motorbike drivers think about roads. Scooters are fantastic, and very convenient for people using public transport. Dublin is not very well connected at all, let alone the rest of Ireland.

magicbastarder

was passed by one of those retrofitted garden gate bikes with a two stroke engine earlier. my main issue with them is the noise; it was several times louder than a motorbike.