Would you pay high tax for right car?

scooby77

Wife has spotted her 'dream' car. Fairly rare, so won't identify. It's 2.0 petrol with €750 road tax. Yes it's post 2008.
It's not cheap and is thirsty. It should be very reliable though. However she won't be borrowing much of the price (if at all) and only does, at most, 5k miles per year. We're not rich...but can afford this.
She's bounced it off good few people and all ( bar me) are horrified at road tax...and told her as much. She having serious doubts, even though loves the car (and she very fussy :-) ).

So any words of encouragement or other opinions appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
(Yes I have previous thread mentioning her buying a leaf...driving 1 put her off ev for some reason...she changes mind a lot:-) )

Oral Surgeon

Happy wife = happy life.....

If you can afford it and it doesn't introduce money stresses down the road then work away... life is too short....

scooby77 wrote: »

Wife has spotted her 'dream' car. Fairly rare, so won't identify. It's 2.0 petrol with €750 road tax. Yes it's post 2008.
It's not cheap and is thirsty. It should be very reliable though. However she won't be borrowing much of the price (if at all) and only does, at most, 5k miles per year. We're not rich...but can afford this.
She's bounced it off good few people and all ( bar me) are horrified at road tax...and told her as much. She having serious doubts, even though loves the car (and she very fussy :-) ).

So any words of encouragement or other opinions appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
(Yes I have previous thread mentioning her buying a leaf...driving 1 put her off ev for some reason...she changes mind a lot:-) )

CiniO

Tax is generally a very small portion of cost associated with having a car, so whether it's 200, 300, 500 or 750 makes very little difference.

When you calculate how much you're spending on fuel, insurance, depreciation, repairs, NCT, tyres, extra equipment, then you'll see that tax is not really much relevant.

bmwguy

It will be cheaper than it would be if it had low tax. I mean substantially cheaper. Due to lack of demand.

If you consider 750 high tax 250 low tax that's 500 a year difference. I bet my last Euro the car is way cheaper than the low tax diesel alternative that at least offsets the tax increase for 4 or 5 years of ownership. Only thing is, it will be hard to sell on too which is why you must drive a good deal for it, trust me demand will not be massive for this car at the moment.

Go on, tell us what it is please, everyone is going to ask!

Voodoomelon

Motor tax is kryptonite to the Irish motoring public. €750 is on the higher side of most peoples tax bills these days, but is a third of the highest tax rate. If you like the car, don't let the tax put you off, it's peanuts in comparison to depreciation and running costs.

Gavman84

750 is not high tax at all really. I'm paying 1200 on my ST and love the car so have no regrets at all. It's only 1 part of overall cost.

pa990

I'm years to come you'll see 750 as a bargain.

Also, despite what people might think, motoring is quite cheap in Ireland compared to other European countries.

Other countries ie Netherlands, Have high annual motor taxes. (Tax based on location+engine size+weight +emissions)

FortySeven

I ran a 1995 3l V8 BMW for a while for sheer enjoyment. Wish I had paid 750 on that...............

bazz26

There was me thinking that this thread was a:pac:bout cars costing >1,500 to tax. :pac:

George Dalton

I wish I was paying €750 motor tax.

nhunter100

scooby77 wrote:

Wife has spotted her 'dream' car. Fairly rare, so won't identify. It's 2.0 petrol with €750 road tax. Yes it's post 2008. It's not cheap and is thirsty. It should be very reliable though. However she won't be borrowing much of the price (if at all) and only does, at most, 5k miles per year. We're not rich...but can afford this. She's bounced it off good few people and all ( bar me) are horrified at road tax...and told her as much. She having serious doubts, even though loves the car (and she very fussy :-) ).

How much would a post 2008 cost versus what you are looking at? Plus as another poster said happy wife=happy life.

pa990

I'm paying €270 for a 2.0, 225bhp diesel

Fückin bargain..

I'd pay twice that, and still consider it good value for money.

I'd also be willing to pay half that and consider it ever better value for money

listermint

Come back to me when your paying 1811 euro on a car your just polishing most of the time

mloc123

750e is high tax?

It is 7-8e a week more than a 'low tax' dull diesel.

colm_mcm

Pre 08 2.0 would be around that anyway.
Buy it.


Probably an Accord.

bazz26

The way I see it you can either pay big money for a car with low motor tax or pay small money for a car with high motor tax. It's rare you find a happy medium.

CalamariFritti

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Motor tax is kryptonite to the Irish motoring public. €750 is on the higher side of most peoples tax bills these days, but is a third of the highest tax rate. If you like the car, don't let the tax put you off, it's peanuts in comparison to depreciation and running costs.

This. People driving 40, 50 thousand Euro cars no bother but one must never admit to paying more than €270 motor tax. Hand wringing, frowning, 'and would you ever think of changing?'

Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit but still. For some reason 3, 4, 5 grand depreciation per year who cares but €750 motor tax is considered wasted money.

nd

The sister paid waaaay over the odds for a 1.8 07 petrol mondeo just because the garage "cover the cost" of the tax as part of her weekly payments :rolleyes:.

scooby77

Thanks for all prompt replies. I agree with most...hadn't realised how much some here paying. It is a 14 reg.
Wife just read....she being swayed. Has made us think of maybe bargainin harder on price. Don't mean to start a guessing game...but it's not an accord. It's extremely rare in Ireland and if I say it might as well use my real name as a handle if she buys!

Live65a846d0ee

Just get a Hayabusa for €88 per year and destroy every other car on the road including super cars.

CalamariFritti

nd wrote: »

The sister payed waaaay over the odds for a 1.8 07 petrol mondeo just because the garage "cover the cost" of the tax as part of her weekly payments :rolleyes:.

How much is a pre 08 1.8, 500 quid? Just under even?

CalamariFritti

scooby77 wrote: »

Thanks for all prompt replies. I agree with most...hadn't realised how much some here paying. It is a 14 reg.
Wife just read....she being swayed. Has made us think of maybe bargainin harder on price. Don't mean to start a guessing game...but it's not an accord. It's extremely rare in Ireland and if I say it might as well use my real name as a handle if she buys!

If anyone cared that is.

Not being smart btw. Just saying.

flyingsnail

CalamariFritti wrote: »

How much is a pre 08 1.8, 500 quid? Just under even?

€ 636

CiniO

pa990 wrote: »

Also, despite what people might think, motoring is quite cheap in Ireland compared to other European countries.

Comparing to other European countries, Ireland is probably one of the most expensive countries for motoring (nominally anyway).

I can only think of Denmark and Netherland which are actually even more expensive. Everything else is probably cheaper.


When you compare motoring cost in Ireland related to average salary though, then probably Ireland doesn't end up so bad comparing to other countries.

thadg

scooby77 wrote: »

Thanks for all prompt replies. I agree with most...hadn't realised how much some here paying. It is a 14 reg.
Wife just read....she being swayed. Has made us think of maybe bargainin harder on price. Don't mean to start a guessing game...but it's not an accord. It's extremely rare in Ireland and if I say it might as well use my real name as a handle if she buys!

toyota gt86:pac:

pa990

CiniO wrote: »

Comparing to other European countries, Ireland is probably one of the most expensive countries for motoring (nominally anyway).

I can only think of Denmark and Netherland which are actually even more expensive. Everything else is probably cheaper.


When you compare motoring cost in Ireland related to average salary though, then probably Ireland doesn't end up so bad comparing to other countries.

Tell me about all the motoring taxes in Germany.... And Belgium


Actually how about selecting 2L diesel. And giving the breakdown of motoring taxes for all EU states.



Ireland isn't the worst

thadg

pa990 wrote: »

Tell me about all the motoring taxes in Germany.... And Belgium


Actually how about selecting 2L diesel. And giving the breakdown of motoring taxes for all EU states.



Ireland isn't the worst

might not be the worst, but surely the most unbalanced i.e. dearest truck 900 euro , 3.0 car pre 08 1494, post 08 750 euro wheather they do 1000 miles or 60000 miles per year

blackbox

When you get above 3 litres (pre-2008) it doesn't go up any more.

...so 5 litres is much better value than 3 liters!


:pac:

Teddington Cuddlesworth

Is an Impreza an "extremely" rare car?

I'd classify it as different, maybe even a little unique but not rare, and definitely not extremely rare.

Trojan

Not only would I, but I am actually. Paying €1080 for my 6 cylinder E39 525i and I love driving it. It'll be a sad day when I finally move on.

_Brian

scooby77 wrote: »

Wife has spotted her 'dream' car. Fairly rare, so won't identify. It's 2.0 petrol with €750 road tax. Yes it's post 2008.
It's not cheap and is thirsty. It should be very reliable though. However she won't be borrowing much of the price (if at all) and only does, at most, 5k miles per year. We're not rich...but can afford this.
She's bounced it off good few people and all ( bar me) are horrified at road tax...and told her as much. She having serious doubts, even though loves the car (and she very fussy :-) ).

So any words of encouragement or other opinions appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
(Yes I have previous thread mentioning her buying a leaf...driving 1 put her off ev for some reason...she changes mind a lot:-) )

I've opted to do it so obviously it's an ok idea.

commited

thadg wrote: »

toyota gt86:pac:

Yeah it's gotta be.

kay 9

commited wrote: »

Yeah it's gotta be.

Or it's brother, the brz. Hope it's not an import or insurance could be more of an issue than tax.

166man

CiniO wrote: »

Tax is generally a very small portion of cost associated with having a car, so whether it's 200, 300, 500 or 750 makes very little difference.

When you calculate how much you're spending on fuel, insurance, depreciation, repairs, NCT, tyres, extra equipment, then you'll see that tax is not really much relevant.

I'm actually not sure I'd agree with that statement.

I actually think the problem with motor tax is not the nominal sum, it's the % of your disposable income that it takes up, and is one of those taxes that people can directly pay or choose to not pay.

I'll give you an example...

You make €3000 gross per month. (So in theory your €100 a month for motor tax on a 2.5 engine is only 3%)

Your take home per month (after income tax) is say €2000.

You pay your mortgage/rent so down to €1400.

You pay your bills and associated costs and you're down to €1200.

You decide to save €200 per month, down to €1000.

Your food costs say are €260 per month now you're at €740

Your fuel costs are €200 a month now you're at €540.


Now your motor tax bill is suddenly 20% of your disposable income. Not such a small expense anymore is it?

Now of course the above figures could be off, and will be different for everyone, but do you understand the point I'm trying to get across?

Voodoomelon

listermint wrote: »

Come back to me when your paying 1811 euro on a car your just polishing most of the time

You pay €2 more than you should so. :pac:

ShadowHearth

750 is not high tax. All my driving life I pay 800eu minimum for my cars every 3 months 2.0 old money bracket ).
If she loves it and its dream car that she can afford, then 750eu is nothing. Think about it this way: Some cheap soul destroying eco box will be 280eu, so difference is 480eu per year. 40eu extra per month or 10eu extra per week to drive dream car that will put a grin on her face. Its a small price to pay.

Oral Surgeon

You sound like great fun....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

166man wrote: »

I'm actually not sure I'd agree with that statement.

I actually think the problem with motor tax is not the nominal sum, it's the % of your disposable income that it takes up, and is one of those taxes that people can directly pay or choose to not pay.

I'll give you an example...

You make €3000 gross per month. (So in theory your €100 a month for motor tax on a 2.5 engine is only 3%)

Your take home per month (after income tax) is say €2000.

You pay your mortgage/rent so down to €1400.

You pay your bills and associated costs and you're down to €1200.

You decide to save €200 per month, down to €1000.

Your food costs say are €260 per month now you're at €740

Your fuel costs are €200 a month now you're at €540.


Now your motor tax bill is suddenly 20% of your disposable income. Not such a small expense anymore is it?

Now of course the above figures could be off, and will be different for everyone, but do you understand the point I'm trying to get across?

166man

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

You sound like great fun....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I have numerous Alfa's and a few other yokes in the shed on the stupid high tax rates. Somehow I use man maths to justify the costs of paying said motor tax rates

What I was doing was giving a breakdown of how the majority of Irish people see the tax bill and why it is such a high expense.

CiniO

166man wrote: »

I'm actually not sure I'd agree with that statement.

I actually think the problem with motor tax is not the nominal sum, it's the % of your disposable income that it takes up, and is one of those taxes that people can directly pay or choose to not pay.

I'll give you an example...

You make €3000 gross per month. (So in theory your €100 a month for motor tax on a 2.5 engine is only 3%)

Your take home per month (after income tax) is say €2000.

You pay your mortgage/rent so down to €1400.

You pay your bills and associated costs and you're down to €1200.

You decide to save €200 per month, down to €1000.

Your food costs say are €260 per month now you're at €740

Your fuel costs are €200 a month now you're at €540.


Now your motor tax bill is suddenly 20% of your disposable income. Not such a small expense anymore is it?

Now of course the above figures could be off, and will be different for everyone, but do you understand the point I'm trying to get across?

I think you missed my point a bit.
I wasn't trying to say motortax was cheap or negligible part of disposable income.

I was trying to say, that tax is only small part of car running costs.

Take my example:
I have a civic for 4 years.
Bought it for €10,500. Now worth probably no more than €6,000 so depreciation cost €4,500.
I had to spend €3,200 over those 4 years on servicing, NCTs, tyres, repairs, extra equipments, etc.
I also spend €2,400 on insurance, and €7,800 on diesel.
And eventually i spend only €1,120 on tax.

So in total, I spend €19k on the car in 4 years, out of which tax was only €1,120.
This comes as only 5.88% of total cost.

Indeed for my car tax is low at €280.
But even if it was €750 per year (as in OP's example), it still would be less than 15% of total car running cost.

And for me insurance is relatively cheap - I'm sure there's plenty of drivers paying way more, which would make tax being even less significent bit of the total running cost.

I agree - tax is crazy for over 2 litre cars in old system, and for over 190g/km in new system.
But still other costs are significent.



BTW - I always calculated my disposable income as my gross income minus taxes. Never subtracted expanses for food, rent, bills, fuel, savings, etc...


And also in relation what you said that motortax is something people can choose not to pay - that's true, and depends on where you're living and driving.
I believe people living and driving in Dublin, would find it very hard to get away with failing to pay tax.
However where I live, I'd most cars driven only locally are untaxed, some of them for many many years, and people get away with that.
Everyone knows there's no need to tax vehicles which are only driven locally (say within 20km radius), and there's absolutely no enforcement.
Some people in their 70's or 80's I know, don't remember any checkpoints in local area through their life. So why would anyone bother paying motortax?

Idbatterim

there i was thinking it would be in the 3L plus category, take a look at some of the threads about depreciation recently. What makes it an even bigger joke is the level of depreciation on what are **** cars. Want to get serious value here, get some ridiculous car, for ridiculously cheap, pay the 1500 or 1809 in motor tax and lose maybe 1-1.5k in depreciation a year or buy a new crap car in comparison, save 1.5k in motor tax and lose eye watering amounts on depreciation and loan interest driving a crap car... thats the choice....

corks finest

scooby77 wrote: »

Wife has spotted her 'dream' car. Fairly rare, so won't identify. It's 2.0 petrol with €750 road tax. Yes it's post 2008.
It's not cheap and is thirsty. It should be very reliable though. However she won't be borrowing much of the price (if at all) and only does, at most, 5k miles per year. We're not rich...but can afford this.
She's bounced it off good few people and all ( bar me) are horrified at road tax...and told her as much. She having serious doubts, even though loves the car (and she very fussy :-) ).

So any words of encouragement or other opinions appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
(Yes I have previous thread mentioning her buying a leaf...driving 1 put her off ev for some reason...she changes mind a lot:-) )

Not a hope,mine is e180,and wouldn't go higher

Ardennes1944

Here in Switzerland a 3litre will cost about 550euro a year to tax. If its engine is EURO5 and over, you get back between 150 and 250 depending on how low the co2 is.

If its EURO 4 or worse you get a penalty between 75 and 150 euros.

Our 1.4 costs 350euro a year.

So the tax is obviously less, especially for bigger engines, but good luck finding a post 2010 car thats any bit special for less than 15k. e46s cost about 3 times more than they do in Ireland, as an example.

H3llR4iser

Op, you can't get in a car forum, talk about a "dream car" and not say what it is!

As for the 750...it's not high at all. I pay 673 for a fairly basic 1.9 which I use very rarely (they've even put more parking restrictions at the office, so I had to also cut my "once a week" drive to work ) and TBH, if it wasn't for insurance companies taking the p1ss and refusing to even quote me for some reason (with 5 years NCB) on anything north of 2.0, I'd probably have a V6 parked downstairs.

But we need to know which car it is...

Mooooo

750 would be middle of the road surely, paying that on an 07 Passat here. Simply a case if you want the car and can afford it do it, if you want to do something with the 300 euro saving you'd get for something at the lower end don't. Who gives a crap what anyone else thinks it's yer own money at the end of the day

scooby77

Well she''s done a deal.
It's this:
http://www.evo.co.uk/mazda/mx-5/13871/mazda-mx-5-25th-anniversary-limited-edition

Previous owner mazda Ireland. 11k miles

Shannon757

It wasn't the GT86!

kay 9

scooby77 wrote: »

Well she''s done a deal.
It's this:
http://www.evo.co.uk/mazda/mx-5/13871/mazda-mx-5-25th-anniversary-limited-edition

Previous owner mazda Ireland. 11k miles

Lovely little car, happy motoring.

WertdeerSC

CiniO wrote: »

I think you missed my point a bit.
I wasn't trying to say motortax was cheap or negligible part of disposable income.

I was trying to say, that tax is only small part of car running costs.

Take my example:
I have a civic for 4 years.
Bought it for €10,500. Now worth probably no more than €6,000 so depreciation cost €4,500.
I had to spend €3,200 over those 4 years on servicing, NCTs, tyres, repairs, extra equipments, etc.
I also spend €2,400 on insurance, and €7,800 on diesel.
And eventually i spend only €1,120 on tax.

So in total, I spend €19k on the car in 4 years, out of which tax was only €1,120.
This comes as only 5.88% of total cost.

Indeed for my car tax is low at €280.
But even if it was €750 per year (as in OP's example), it still would be less than 15% of total car running cost.

And for me insurance is relatively cheap - I'm sure there's plenty of drivers paying way more, which would make tax being even less significent bit of the total running cost.

I agree - tax is crazy for over 2 litre cars in old system, and for over 190g/km in new system.
But still other costs are significent.



BTW - I always calculated my disposable income as my gross income minus taxes. Never subtracted expanses for food, rent, bills, fuel, savings, etc...


And also in relation what you said that motortax is something people can choose not to pay - that's true, and depends on where you're living and driving.
I believe people living and driving in Dublin, would find it very hard to get away with failing to pay tax.
However where I live, I'd most cars driven only locally are untaxed, some of them for many many years, and people get away with that.
Everyone knows there's no need to tax vehicles which are only driven locally (say within 20km radius), and there's absolutely no enforcement.
Some people in their 70's or 80's I know, don't remember any checkpoints in local area through their life. So why would anyone bother paying motortax?

So why would anyone bother paying motortax? How about because your insurance is null and void without it? If you were to have an accident you will have full liability for the costs, potentially running into tens of thousands... same for these people that do not have a valid NCT... your insurance company 100% will not pay out in the event of a claim. And these people carry their children in these cars, stupidly and irresponsibly.

CiniO

WertdeerSC wrote: »

So why would anyone bother paying motortax? How about because your insurance is null and void without it? If you were to have an accident you will have full liability for the costs, potentially running into tens of thousands... same for these people that do not have a valid NCT... your insurance company 100% will not pay out in the event of a claim. And these people carry their children in these cars, stupidly and irresponsibly.

Insurer has no ground to refuse to pay for a claim based on lack of motortax.

bmwguy

WertdeerSC wrote: »

So why would anyone bother paying motortax? How about because your insurance is null and void without it? If you were to have an accident you will have full liability for the costs, potentially running into tens of thousands... same for these people that do not have a valid NCT... your insurance company 100% will not pay out in the event of a claim. And these people carry their children in these cars, stupidly and irresponsibly.

I heard if you haven't paid your tv licence and were listening to RTE radio you are not insured either. Would you go away with your silly claims.

galwaytt

WertdeerSC wrote: »

So why would anyone bother paying motortax? How about because your insurance is null and void without it? If you were to have an accident you will have full liability for the costs, potentially running into tens of thousands... same for these people that do not have a valid NCT... your insurance company 100% will not pay out in the event of a claim. And these people carry their children in these cars, stupidly and irresponsibly.

Complete and utter fiction. You can have no driving licence never mind tax and they'd still have to pay your claim.

Come back when you've grown up.

As for OP question. Yes, to a point. Currently have an €1800p.a. car, and spent €1k a year to drive it 6 months of the year.

There's a particular post 08 one I want but really struggling with €2200 p.a. rate on it.....