why never a movement against the Television Licence ? (READ POST #2 BEFORE POSTING)

icdg

Victor wrote: »

I'm saying they know the properties and the residents, not the TV owners. And while they don't ask for it, they have the power to get the Sky / Virgin Media data.

They don't I'm afraid:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/plan-to-use-sky-upc-data-to-collect-licence-to-be-rejected-1.2380084

reubenreuben

If we do scrap the licence and scrap rte as it stands now so who would do all the nationalistic programs such as ireland 100 year commemoration etc?

TV3/Virgin media, really?

Victor

icdg wrote: »

They don't I'm afraid:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/plan-to-use-sky-upc-data-to-collect-licence-to-be-rejected-1.2380084

Note that data protection doesn't apply to the collection of taxes.

JTMan

The remit of RTE needs to be scaled back with a concurrent reduction in the license fee.
- 2FM should be privatised.
- RTEs campus in Donnybrook should be sold.
- The remit of RTE's broadcasting should be narrowed. No Home and Away or Neighbours. A strict narrow public service broadcasting remit.

Elmo

JTMan wrote: »

The remit of RTE needs to be scaled back with a concurrent reduction in the license fee.
- 2FM should be privatised.
- RTEs campus in Donnybrook should be sold.
- The remit of RTE's broadcasting should be narrowed. No Home and Away or Neighbours. A strict narrow public service broadcasting remit.

The licence should be replaced with a new small tax on telecommunications bills. It would amount to 0.02% ~ 200m per year.

RTÉ2, 2FM and associated Digital radio stations should become a new company with no funding, sold by government when suitable.

RTÉ should consist of RTÉ one, rte gold (replacing +1), rte news now, rte oirechtas, radio 1, lyric fm and associated digital radio stations (including radio one international). It would be give 42.5% of the licence.

TG4 would take control of RTe jr and jr radio, the Irish film channel, rnag, radio rira, they would also provide a part time youth channel and cula4. They would also get 42.5% of the licence.

Both TG4 and RTÉ would share repeats and news coverage.

TG4 would no longer get exchequer fund.

RTÉ music groups would become part of the national concert hall and receive 7.5% of the licence.

The BAI would get 7.5% for the sound and vision fund.

2rn would take control of RTÉ studios and become the national broadcasting network and studio, they could choose to move a set up a media centre in another part of the country.

Sports and imports would be divided between the new broadcasters depending on their business plan e.g soaps go to RTÉ2, GAA split between TG4 and RTÉ, champions league to RTÉ, docs to RTÉ and so on.

The BAI and comreg would set the level of the tax. The BAI would control advert minutes.

Government would not be involved in deciding on new services or that rate of the fee. No political pressure.

The Parish Priest.

Elmo wrote: »

The licence should be replaced with a new small tax on telecommunications bills. It would amount to 0.02% ~ 200m per year.

RTÉ2, 2FM and associated Digital radio stations should become a new company with no funding, sold by government when suitable.

RTÉ should consist of RTÉ one, rte gold (replacing +1), rte news now, rte oirechtas, radio 1, lyric fm and associated digital radio stations (including radio one international). It would be give 42.5% of the licence.

TG4 would take control of RTe jr and jr radio, the Irish film channel, rnag, radio rira, they would also provide a part time youth channel and cula4. They would also get 42.5% of the licence.

Both TG4 and RTÉ would share repeats and news coverage.

TG4 would no longer get exchequer fund.

RTÉ music groups would become part of the national concert hall and receive 7.5% of the licence.

The BAI would get 7.5% for the sound and vision fund.

2rn would take control of RTÉ studios and become the national broadcasting network and studio, they could choose to move a set up a media centre in another part of the country.

Sports and imports would be divided between the new broadcasters depending on their business plan e.g soaps go to RTÉ2, GAA split between TG4 and RTÉ, champions league to RTÉ, docs to RTÉ and so on.

The BAI and comreg would set the level of the tax. The BAI would control advert minutes.

Government would not be involved in deciding on new services or that rate of the fee. No political pressure.

I Like most of your ideas, not sure about the tax on telecommunications, I would say that a household charge of €150.00 collected by the revenue commissioners would be the way to go.

Elmo

The Parish Priest. wrote: »

I Like most of your ideas, not sure about the tax on telecommunications, I would say that a household charge of €150.00 collected by the revenue commissioners would be the way to go.

Why insist on a charge that no one wants to pay? The broadcasting charge is just a new name for the licence fee.

15% don't pay the licence fee why would this change.

15% of people choose to let revenue remove the property tax from their income... 15% look at that tax as income tax.

Unlike the broadcasters telecommunication companies have no content regulations. I'd prefer if the government took 200m from them and prevent them passing on to their customers.

Capt'n Midnight

Victor wrote: »

When the licence was introduced, TVs were very much a luxury, available to few. As usage grew, people knew they were buying into a luxury. It is also avoidable - just don't get a TV.

The license predates TV's. Before that it was Radio/TV/Colour TV, the more expensive licences allowing you to use the lower ones.



http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1927/sro/1/made/en/print

The fees for a licence for the possession of wireless receiving apparatus or to establish a wireless receiving station shall be as follows :—
(a) Ordinary Licence
10s. a year.

...
A separate ordinary licence shall be necessary to cover the private use of a wireless receiving set on a motor car or other conveyance.

The Post Office has been collecting licence fees since the The Wireless Telegraphy Act, 1904.

Licenses mean revenue could be raised, and also in the early days that receivers could be tracked.


The licence fee means that slightly fewer people are watch broadcast TV nowadays. Peak TV ownership was something like 97% so pretty universal. OK it's dropped down to 95% but I'd be shocked if most of that 5% didn't consume audio-visual material from media or interweb.

The big inefficiencies with TV licences are the cut An Post takes to collect licences and the evasion rate. Lumping it on the electricity bill would save millions and you could reduce the licence fee at the same time. TBH it should be taken out of the fees paid by the telco's for the frequencies taken out of the TV band.

Victor

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

TBH it should be taken out of the fees paid by the telco's for the frequencies taken out of the TV band.

I think the last auction for spectrum in about 2014 raised about €1.5 billion for the state.

Sam Russell

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The big inefficiencies with TV licences are the cut An Post takes to collect licences and the evasion rate. Lumping it on the electricity bill would save millions and you could reduce the licence fee at the same time. TBH it should be taken out of the fees paid by the telco's for the frequencies taken out of the TV band.

If the Licence fee was put on the electricity and reduced to €10 per month it would cost €120 per year. Since evasion and non-liability is at 15%, and An Post take about 6%, then the net take on the current regime is €126.90. €1 per month on broadband would certainly make up the difference, particularly if it was also put on mobile data services.

I would also be in favour of a small levy on pay TV services to pay for transmission charges for Saorview, which would be less than €1 per month - possibly 50c.

All in all, it is small money for the service we get.

Avada

Sam Russell wrote: »

If the Licence fee was put on the electricity and reduced to €10 per month it would cost €120 per year. Since evasion and non-liability is at 15%, and An Post take about 6%, then the net take on the current regime is €126.90. €1 per month on broadband would certainly make up the difference, particularly if it was also put on mobile data services.

I would also be in favour of a small levy on pay TV services to pay for transmission charges for Saorview, which would be less than €1 per month - possibly 50c.

All in all, it is small money for the service we get.

Why not just add it to the local property tax? Revenue already collect that.

Sam Russell

Avada wrote: »

Why not just add it to the local property tax? Revenue already collect that.

Local Property Tax is not collected from commercial premises that are currently liable for the TV licence (if they have a TV).

Avada

Sam Russell wrote: »

Local Property Tax is not collected from commercial premises that are currently liable for the TV licence (if they have a TV).

Surely for commercial properties it could be added to rates

NIMAN

doolox wrote: »

If they don't cough up they are jailed for non payment.

Is this not one of our great urban legends?

Has anyone actually done jail time for non-payment of the TV licence? I doubt it.

nhunter100

NIMAN wrote:

Is this not one of our great urban legends?

No

NIMAN wrote:

Has anyone actually done jail time for non-payment of the TV licence? I doubt it.

411 people went to prison for non payment in 2013. Serving between a few hours and a couple of days. Can't link it but the article was carried in the Indo in May 2014. Check Google.

icdg

There have been highly publicised individual instances, at least.

A general reminder aimed at no one in particular - there is to be no posts advocating the commission of any criminal offence on this forum.

political analyst

http://www.independent.ie/business/now-laptop-ipad-and-pc-users-will-have-to-buy-a-tv-licence-35567457.html

In a move that could generate an extra €5m a year for cash-strapped RTÉ, Communications Minister Denis Naughten is devising plans to broaden the reach of the licence fee.

Almost one in 10 households no longer has a traditional television set, but many are still accessing content over the internet.

Sources say proposals being finalised by officials would see the €160 annual charge applied to electronic devices with screen sizes above 11 inches.

This would ensure mobile phones and standard tablets are exempt but would see most desktop computers, laptops and large iPads targeted.

Full details of the change have yet to be worked out, including how it would be enforced.

icdg

Just the communications charge in revised form then, although in this form it at least has the virtue of not being a poll tax. Not sure it will ultimately make life any easier for RTÉ.

Sam Russell

Why not make a charge on broadband?

Perhaps have it related to data download - so you pay a fixed levy on broadband, with a further charge on the amount of data downloaded - these extra charges do not need to be huge, only that the net amount collected equates to the current licence fee, taking account for the current evaders.

Johnboy1951

political analyst wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/now-laptop-ipad-and-pc-users-will-have-to-buy-a-tv-licence-35567457.html

So he shot down the FF idea of a general household tax to essentially replace the licence ......

He has also ruled out the imposition of a so-called 'Broadcasting Charge' which would result in every household in the country receiving a bill regardless of whether they access public service broadcasting.

So how does what he proposes differ exactly?
Is it only those who actually "access public service broadcasting" who will pay?

Of course not, so he is in fact changing the licence to a general tax on owning a personal computer and such devices.

This is not a licence to receive a PSB as implied above.
It is a general tax on technology, regardless the use of that technology.

Why not be up front about it and scrap the 'licence' as it surely could not be termed a licence in future.
Call it what it is ..... a technology tax which is used primarily to support PSB.

I would have no objection to such a tax, but why continue with this misnomer of a 'licence'? Because 'tax' is a dirty word to a lot of people?

Call a spade a spade and be done with it!

I love Sean nos

nhunter100 wrote: »

No


411 people went to prison for non payment in 2013. Serving between a few hours and a couple of days. Can't link it but the article was carried in the Indo in May 2014. Check Google.

I thought they were jailed for contempt.

1. Receive at least half a dozen warning letters (based on own experience. I don't renew until the sixth letter arrives).
2. Visit from TV licence inspector.
3. Summons to court.
4. Judge orders that a TV licence be purchased.
5. Contempt sentence given since previous instruction not followed.

I would have thought that it would be very difficult to be prosecuted for no licence, even if caught. From my own experience, the TV licence is backdated, so it would be possible to buy one post detection by the inspector and bring it to court to show that you were covered after all.

political analyst

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So he shot down the FF idea of a general household tax to essentially replace the licence ......


So how does what he proposes differ exactly?
Is it only those who actually "access public service broadcasting" who will pay?

Of course not, so he is in fact changing the licence to a general tax on owning a personal computer and such devices.

This is not a licence to receive a PSB as implied above.
It is a general tax on technology, regardless the use of that technology.

Why not be up front about it and scrap the 'licence' as it surely could not be termed a licence in future.
Call it what it is ..... a technology tax which is used primarily to support PSB.

I would have no objection to such a tax, but why continue with this misnomer of a 'licence'? Because 'tax' is a dirty word to a lot of people?

Call a spade a spade and be done with it!

At least those people who have no internet access in their homes and do not bother with TV won't be expected to pay a licence fee or broadcasting charge.

Motor tax is so-called because people need motor vehicles to get around.

However, people can get by without the internet and TV. Therefore, the licence fee/broadcasting charge is not a tax.

political analyst

political analyst wrote: »

At least those people who have no internet access in their homes and do not bother with TV won't be expected to pay a licence fee or broadcasting charge.

Motor tax is so-called because people need motor vehicles to get around.

However, people can get by without the internet and TV. Therefore, the licence fee/broadcasting charge is not a tax.

I don't have a car but I get around ok. I do however depend on the internet for my income.

political analyst

In 2014, Hungary abandoned a proposed internet tax.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29846285

The BBC's Nick Thorpe in Budapest writes:

Viktor Orban does not often back down, but he has done so on this occasion for several reasons.

He saw how unpopular the tax was. He managed with one stroke to do something which opposition leaders had tried and failed to do for five years: unify his opponents

He took on the best-organised community in the country - internet users - and lost

The government's communication methods failed again - as they have with almost every major decision since Fidesz came to power

"We are not Communists. We don't go against the will of the people," he said - a sign that growing comparisons between Fidesz and the old Hungarian Socialist Workers' Party are hitting the mark.

political analyst

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't have a car but I get around ok. I do however depend on the internet for my income.

In what way do you depend on the internet for your income?

Johnboy1951

political analyst wrote: »

In what way do you depend on the internet for your income?

How does that impact on the subject under discussion?

political analyst

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

How does that impact on the subject under discussion?

I'm just asking as a matter of interest. After all, you brought it into the debate.

political analyst

political analyst wrote: »

In what way do you depend on the internet for your income?

Im self employed as a pen tester and researcher. When not with a client Im working from home, and I need an internet connection to do that.

icdg

Politicalanalyst take a warning. We don't ask that type of question around here, it's just not the done thing and it's irrelevant

Elmo

The proposal is simple the Broadcasting Charge but the only difference is that it it's name remains the same. There are very few household without either TV or Internet access.

Place a small tax on Telecommunications Companies why? Unlike Broadcasters they do not pay a levy to the BAI and unlike broadcasters they have any content requirements. Yet the vast amount of Data passing through is video or audio related.