Is air conditioning not a standard feature in cars? Should it be?

acequion

I don't know if this is a stupid question or not as I must confess to an almost total ignorance about cars.But like probably most of the adult population,I drive one.

So my question arises because I've just traded in my 2009 air conditioned Nissan Note for an unairconditioned 2014 model. Now I was aware of what I was buying and apart from that one issue, everything else is great and I'm delighted with the newer car.

However I was quite astonished that air conditioning was not a standard feature in a good car like a Nissan Note. I assumed it would be as standard as central locking. Now,I'm well aware that it's mostly unnecessary in our climate,especially where I live in the rainy south west. And anyway I live quite close to where I work so am not often stuck in traffic or making long journeys. Still, the handful of times I used the air con in the last car, I found it really great.And we Irish are using it more and more and enjoying its cool comfort even in our chilly climate.

What do those of you more in the know on such matters think about my question? Is my car in the minority? Is air con a standard of most Irish registered cars nowadays and if not, should it be?

Voodoomelon

acequion wrote: »

a standard feature in a good car like a Nissan Note.?

I'm not taking the pi$$ and wish you all the best with your new car, but the Note would be at the lower end of the scale in terms of a well specced vehicle. It's positioned in the very segment where manufacturers take liberties with everything from electric windows to cruise control to keep costs low.

Such a shame, as it's probably the number one feature, without a shadow of a doubt, I absolutely could not drive a car without. It's a safety feature as far as I see it in regards visibility and I never turn it off.

Atlantic Dawn

I'd say there's still entry level models up to Golf/Corolla size that don't come with it as standard, I'd imagine the cost adds somewhere between €500-€1000 depending on size of compressor they are using in the car so without it the cheaper the car the easier it might sell here.

It's nearly better in this country in the winter to demist the windows than it is to cool the car in summer, I use it all the time, wouldn't be without it.

Grolschevik

I've a 17 year old Fiesta that it came standard in, albeit the Ghia model...

Mervyn Skidmore

Even the Dacia Sandero has air-con as standard these days. Shameful of other manufacturers not to have it.

Samuel T. Cogley

Can you not just wind down the window and stick the foot down a bit on the 6 or so days a year this will be an issue?

Jack the Stripper

We need to have electric windows first.

Leonard Hofstadter

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I'd say there's still entry level models up to Golf/Corolla size that don't come with it as standard, I'd imagine the cost adds somewhere between €500-€1000 depending on size of compressor they are using in the car so without it the cheaper the car the easier it might sell here.

It's nearly better in this country in the winter to demist the windows than it is to cool the car in summer, I use it all the time, wouldn't be without it.

Toyota still doesn't fit a/c as standard to the Auris, however if you're a pensioners or geriatric, and therefore buy the Corollla, you now get it as standard, even on the ultimate OAP special Terra(ble) model.

Superminis still tend not to have a/c unless you buy the most expensive model in Ireland, been standard in pretty much every UK spec supermini for at least the past 10 years!

As for whether cars should have a/c as standard, anyone who says 'you don't need it in Ireland because it never gets hot enough' frankly shouldn't be allowed drive. It is vital, especially at winter (if anything, it's even more useful then than it is in the summer)

CiniO

captainspeed wrote: »

Toyota still doesn't fit a/c as standard to the Auris, however if you're a pensioners or geriatric, and therefore buy the Corollla, you now get it as standard, even on the ultimate OAP special Terra(ble) model.

Superminis still tend not to have a/c unless you buy the most expensive model in Ireland, been standard in pretty much every UK spec supermini for at least the past 10 years!

As for whether cars should have a/c as standard, anyone who says 'you don't need it in Ireland because it never gets hot enough' frankly shouldn't be allowed drive. It is vital, especially at winter (if anything, it's even more useful then than it is in the summer)

I agree that A/C is useful in Irish climate, but don't exaggerate. It's not a necessity just a convenience feature, and it's IMO perfectly acceptable if it's not available on cheaper, low trim models.

It's a necessity in hot climates, where without it you'd be driving at 60 degrees C inside the car.

In Ireland, it's comparable with cruise control, leather steering wheel, parking sensors, etc... So in other words, it's very useful, but not crucial.

acequion

CiniO wrote: »

I agree that A/C is useful in Irish climate, but don't exaggerate. It's not a necessity just a convenience feature, and it's IMO perfectly acceptable if it's not available on cheaper, low trip models.

It's a necessity in hot climates, where without it you'd be driving at 60 degrees C inside the car.

In Ireland, it's comparable with cruise control, leather steering wheel, parking sensors, etc... So in other words, it's very useful, but not crucial.

You've cheered me up a bit ciniO. While I do appreciate the other replies, I was starting to doubt my purchase.

While I would still maintain that it should be standard on all cars, I still used it very rarely in the last car as it hardly ever gets hot enough in this country.

I'm surprised to hear that Nissan's not great on specs because to drive I find the Note great. I had the last one for five years and it never gave me any trouble.

JohnBoy26

captainspeed wrote: »

Toyota still doesn't fit a/c as standard to the Auris, however if you're a pensioners or geriatric, and therefore buy the Corollla, you now get it as standard, even on the ultimate OAP special Terra(ble) model.

Superminis still tend not to have a/c unless you buy the most expensive model in Ireland, been standard in pretty much every UK spec supermini for at least the past 10 years!

As for whether cars should have a/c as standard, anyone who says 'you don't need it in Ireland because it never gets hot enough' frankly shouldn't be allowed drive. It is vital, especially at winter (if anything, it's even more useful then than it is in the summer)

that's a massive overreaction tbh. A/C is convenient yes but it's far from vital in Ireland. I've lived fine without it for the last 10 years without issue.

naughtysmurf

While not vital, I wouldn't have a car without it, have mine on all the time too

TimeToShine

If commuting it is essential for visibility. The mornings would be a nightmare otherwise.

colm_mcm

I think it's fair enough if someone wants to save money by not having it.
I wouldn't buy a car without it though.

mickdw

It's the kind of thing that if you never had it, you don't need it but once you have had climate control, going back to fogged up windscreen and side windows etc would be a major let down.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

colm_mcm

Yeah pretty sure all car i30s had aircon as standard. The original model did anyway.
Surprised the van didn't.

Isambard

I'd agree with the comments about demisting but my car illogically has aircon and a heated front screen as standard.
I love the aircon but I wouldn't pay extra for it if it wasn't standard

Guy:Incognito

Bluetooth should be standard equipment before aircon imo .

biko

Heated seats any day before air con

Mooooo

mickdw wrote: »

It's the kind of thing that if you never had it, you don't need it but once you have had climate control, going back to fogged up windscreen and side windows etc would be a major let down.

While not cooling the car every car still comes with heater to demist windscreens etc. Does the aircon do it that much faster?

Fr Tod Umptious

captainspeed wrote: »

Toyota still doesn't fit a/c as standard to the Auris, however if you're a pensioners or geriatric, and therefore buy the Corollla, you now get it as standard, even on the ultimate OAP special Terra(ble) model.

Superminis still tend not to have a/c unless you buy the most expensive model in Ireland, been standard in pretty much every UK spec supermini for at least the past 10 years!

As for whether cars should have a/c as standard, anyone who says 'you don't need it in Ireland because it never gets hot enough' frankly shouldn't be allowed drive. It is vital, especially at winter (if anything, it's even more useful then than it is in the summer)

I've driven for years in Ireland in cars without AC and I've got on fine, should my license be revoked ?

I've owned cars in the US without it and it was bad, really bad, could not do without it there.

pilly

Mooooo wrote: »

While not cooling the car every car still comes with heater to demist windscreens etc. Does the aircon do it that much faster?

This is the thing I think most people don't get about a/c. Everyone says we don't get warm enough weather here but I've driven cars with and without it and believe me it's more useful in winter. Can save you 5 minutes each way on a journey. And safer.

theteal

It helps to demist the windscreen a bit quicker. Not in anyway essential. If mine didn't come on automatically I'd never use it.

frozenfrozen

my car doesn't have a/c, I would never buy a car again without it. 100% deal breaker for me if a car didn't have it. Life is too short to wait 5+ minutes for the windows to demist for 4-5 months of the year

cml387

I drove cars for years that had no air con. To demist the window we had a thing known as a "cloth".

Now I feel as if I was just one rung up from having a hole in the floor so that I could make the car move with my feet.

frozenfrozen

cml387 wrote: »

I drove cars for years that had no air con. To demist the window we had a thing known as a "cloth".

Now I feel as if I was just one rung up from having a hole in the floor so that I could make the car move with my feet.

nice way to get micro scratches on the windscreen and spreading grease around the place so you can see sweet FA when the sun shines

Isambard

I don't think he was advocating using a cloth.
I'm a bit paranoid about the inside of my screen.... have been known to scream at and beat on a little bit any passenger who wipes my screen with their hand. (slightly exaggerated)

pilly

Isambard wrote:

I don't think he was advocating using a cloth. I'm a bit paranoid about the inside of my screen.... have been known to scream at and beat on a little bit any passenger who wipes my screen with their hand. (slightly exaggerated)

One of my pet hates too.

frozenfrozen

Isambard wrote: »

I don't think he was advocating using a cloth.

you're right id say. I'm just on the defensive because I can't believe people here don't find A/C useful. I'd have A/C over a radio

fepper

I have A/C in 02 car and its a godsend for clearing windscreen and for cooling me down on a rare scorching hot day in this country

seamus

frozenfrozen wrote: »

you're right id say. I'm just on the defensive because I can't believe people here don't find A/C useful. I'd have A/C over a radio

I don't think anyone's saying they don't find it useful, just pointing out that it's far from essential. Irish people drove cars for decades without A/C and got on just fine.

Even on a morning it only saves you a couple of minutes. Far from "essential".

Henry Ford III

I'd say a/c is highly desirable but not absolutely essential. It only really became widely available on mass market models in the naughties.

We survived well enough before that iirc.

frozenfrozen

seamus wrote: »

I don't think anyone's saying they don't find it useful, just pointing out that it's far from essential. Irish people drove cars for decades without A/C and got on just fine.

Even on a morning it only saves you a couple of minutes. Far from "essential".

I understand your perspective...

But I replied to the thread after these posts:

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Can you not just wind down the window and stick the foot down a bit on the 6 or so days a year this will be an issue?

acequion wrote: »

While I would still maintain that it should be standard on all cars, I still used it very rarely in the last car as it hardly ever gets hot enough in this country.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Bluetooth should be standard equipment before aircon imo .

biko wrote: »

Heated seats any day before air con

Mooooo wrote: »

While not cooling the car every car still comes with heater to demist windscreens etc. Does the aircon do it that much faster?

Not looking to get into a back and forth with anyone I've multi-quoted but as I originally posted, for me those 5 minutes at the start of every journey during the cold months is worth a lot.

Everyone is totally entitled to choose to not have A/C but for me it would be listed as essential in my next car purchase.


If you turn on the demister the A/C will turn on. So i'd say there could be a few people who think they don't utilise A/c when in fact they may do every time they get into the car during winter.

JohnBoy26

TimeToShine wrote: »

If commuting it is essential for visibility. The mornings would be a nightmare otherwise.

One of those dehumidifiers will solve that problem.

JoeA3

It's essential. I cannot believe a 2014 car exists that does not have it as standard.

Climate control even better again (would not consider a car without it). Never have to fiddle with temp/fan speed from the day you drive it off the forecourt.

bazz26

Reality is cars are fitted with equipment levels based on a price point. The more you pay for a new car the better standard equipment generally is. Some people buy base or entry level models because it suits their pockets and needs. Car manufacturers also strip certain things not seen as essential from certain models to make them cheaper and more affordable to people who don't want or care about those features.

Fitting air conditioning still costs the manufacturer money, fitting it as standard to a model just means that cost is already incorporated into the price. For example if the Note that the OP bought had a/c fitted but the car cost €400 more then the OP most probably would not have given it a second thought. The same way you pay big money for a luxury car and it comes with certain things as standard but you cannot expect those things to be standard on cheaper brands costing a fraction of the price.

Henry Ford III

JoeA3 wrote: »

...Climate control even better again (would not consider a car without it). Never have to fiddle with temp/fan speed from the day you drive it off the forecourt.

Unless the temperature you've set leaves you too hot or cold. Then you adjust it. So it's essentially the same as manual a/c just with more to go wrong.

JoeA3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Unless the temperature you've set leaves you too hot or cold. Then you adjust it. So it's essentially the same as manual a/c just with more to go wrong.

Think you missed my point. With c/c you never have to adjust it. It's been set to AUTO at 22 deg all year round without ever needing to touch it since I took my car off the forecourt (and the 2 or 3 cars I've had before that were the same).

When I did have manual a/c years ago it drove me cracked... too hot/too cold, fan blowing air in the wrong directions/wrong speed, etc...

More to go wrong? It's never gone wrong for me. By that logic, better spec keep fit windows too incase the electric ones go wrong.

And it's not the same as manual a/c... there's a lot more to it than that simplistic statement.

pajo1981

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Unless the temperature you've set leaves you too hot or cold. Then you adjust it. So it's essentially the same as manual a/c just with more to go wrong.

Nope. Set and forget. Comfortable temperature will always be a comfortable temperature. Let the computers set fan rates, air blends, etc... you focus on driving the car. Wouldn't buy a car without it.

pajo1981

JoeA3 wrote: »

More to go wrong? It's never gone wrong for me. By that logic, better spec keep fit windows too incase the electric ones go wrong.

The Luddite favorite.

JohnBoy26

JoeA3 wrote: »

Think you missed my point. With c/c you never have to adjust it. It's been set to AUTO at 22 deg all year round without ever needing to touch it since I took my car off the forecourt (and the 2 or 3 cars I've had before that were the same).

When I did have manual a/c years ago it drove me cracked... too hot/too cold, fan blowing air in the wrong directions/wrong speed, etc...

More to go wrong? It's never gone wrong for me. By that logic, better spec keep fit windows too incase the electric ones go wrong.

And it's not the same as manual a/c... there's a lot more to it than that simplistic statement.

It's not that difficult to turn a knob.

frozenfrozen

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

It's not that difficult to turn a knob.

now that's just being facetious.

It's of course easier to set a temperature rather than constantly moving the hot/cold mix which of course will be different as the outside temperature changes

JoeA3

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

It's not that difficult to turn a knob.

So you don't understand how it works either?

I hope you enjoy twiddling with your a/c knobs. I'll get on with driving the car.

Henry Ford III

JoeA3 wrote: »

Think you missed my point. With c/c you never have to adjust it. It's been set to AUTO at 22 deg all year round without ever needing to touch it since I took my car off the forecourt (and the 2 or 3 cars I've had before that were the same).

When I did have manual a/c years ago it drove me cracked... too hot/too cold, fan blowing air in the wrong directions/wrong speed, etc...

More to go wrong? It's never gone wrong for me. By that logic, better spec keep fit windows too incase the electric ones go wrong.

And it's not the same as manual a/c... there's a lot more to it than that simplistic statement.

I don't believe I did.

On a cold morning I set my temp to max (turn the knob). I turn on the heated seats, and if there's ice I turn on the heated windscreen. When it gets too warm I adjust it.

I've had cars with auto cc. The only difference between manual a/c and full cc is the interface. Both have exactly compressors, condensors, clutches, fans, plumbing and fluid.

They are as I said essentially the same.

JohnBoy26

JoeA3 wrote: »

So you don't understand how it works either?

I hope you enjoy twiddling with your a/c knobs. I'll get on with driving the car.

I do.

JoeA3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I don't believe I did.

On a cold morning I set my temp to max (turn the knob). I turn on the heated seats, and if there's ice I turn on the heated windscreen. When it gets too warm I adjust it.

I've had cars with auto cc. The only difference between manual a/c and full cc is the interface. Both have exactly compressors, condensors, clutches, fans, plumbing and fluid.

They are as I said essentially the same.

They're not. But hey, we both think we're right (again).

JohnBoy26

OSI wrote: »

Car with no A/C in winter:
Bundle into car with Michelin man style jacket, hat and scarf. Start car and turn heating to full blast. Sprain a shoulder trying to get a rag into the awkward parts of the windscreen in a vain attempt to clear it. Starting driving with the windows open in the hope the condensation will clear faster while cursing not wearing a second jacket. Arrive at work uncomfortable, freezing cold and deaf from the full blast fans and traffic noise.

Car with C/C in winter:
Waltz out to car in jeans and a t-shirt. Start engine. 30 seconds later cabin is at same temperature of the cozy house you just left. Windows are clear already because there's no moisture in the air. Arrive at work warm and comfortable.

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=15551&langId=-1&categoryId=212553&productId=1303295&storeId=11101

JoeA3

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=15551&langId=-1&categoryId=212553&productId=1303295&storeId=11101

I'd say that works a charm alright :rolleyes:

Henry Ford III

OSI wrote: »

Car with no A/C in winter:
Bundle into car with Michelin man style jacket, hat and scarf. Start car and turn heating to full blast. Sprain a shoulder trying to get a rag into the awkward parts of the windscreen in a vain attempt to clear it. Starting driving with the windows open in the hope the condensation will clear faster while cursing not wearing a second jacket. Arrive at work uncomfortable, freezing cold and deaf from the full blast fans and traffic noise.

Car with C/C in winter:
Waltz out to car in jeans and a t-shirt. Start engine. 30 seconds later cabin is at same temperature of the cozy house you just left. Windows are clear already because there's no moisture in the air. Arrive at work warm and comfortable.

Whilst we all realise the differences between having a/c and not having it there's still confusion between what exactly manual a/c and cc systems do.

My point is they do exactly the same thing i.e. they use a compressor and a condensor and associated gubbins to dehumidify the air going into the cabin. They both make it comfortable inside, and they can warm passengers on a cold day and keep them cool when it's warm.

Their function and the mechanicals they use are therefore identical.

The user interface is the only difference. With manual a/c you adjust the temperature with a rotary knob. With CC you set the temperature. Crucially if you are too hot or too cold with either system you simply adjust it.

JohnBoy26

JoeA3 wrote: »

I'd say that works a charm alright :rolleyes:

It does, I have tried them. After 3 months or so they get full but all you have to do to regenerate them is to put them on the radiator overnight and away you go again.

You seem to think that they don't work, have you experience of them?