Gavin Sheehan at FFos Las

allthedoyles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfDW3Bh7sEA

Anyone back this one today . Gavin Sheehan on the 4/11 favourite . Seemingly the horse ducked away from the whip !

Gringo180

allthedoyles wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfDW3Bh7sEA

Anyone back this one today . Gavin Sheehan on the 4/11 favourite . Seemingly the horse ducked away from the whip !

Seen that earlier. Looked like when he was changing hands with the whip he put all his weight on one foot in the stirrup and the horse jinked the other way. Very hard to stay aboard when travelling at 30mph.

Will Kennedy on the other hand worked a minor miracle staying on his mount in a different race and ended up winning.

realdanbreen

I have watched this several times and I'm afraid each time I watch it I am less inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

danganabu

realdanbreen wrote: »

I have watched this several times and I'm afraid each time I watch it I am less inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Specsavers have an offer on at the moment, you should consider it.

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

I have watched this several times and I'm afraid each time I watch it I am less inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Just curious..have you ever ridden a thoroughbred race horse?

realdanbreen

TheTorment wrote: »

Just curious..have you ever ridden a thoroughbred race horse?

No. I haven't played in the premier league either(you probably have done that also) but that doesn't mean I can't give an opinion on a game.

posturingpat

Of course he jumped off sure it's all a fix, cowboys the lot of them, Greatrex laid the bolox off it happy days, Cheltenham covered :rolleyes::mad:

realdanbreen

Have another look at it. Now if that was the finish of a Gold Cup would he have come off the horse? And if he did do you think there would be an outcry over it?

Peintre Celebre

realdanbreen wrote: »

Have another look at it. Now if that was the finish of a Gold Cup would he have come off the horse? And if he did do you think there would be an outcry over it?

Call me crazy dan but if he were going to throw a race wouldn't it be wiser to pull him up or something? Instead of jumping off (risking serious injury and paralysis) rather than doing it when forging clear in the straight?

Naturally enough there would be an outcry, sure don't you remember when Ruby fell on Annie Power?

volono

nothing to do with pocket talk etc. but if people honestly believe jockeys aren't asked/told to do certain instructions on racehorses they're deluded, and i agree it does look a little suspect but if he really wanted the horse to lose he would have rode an entirely different race tbh. Personally i think the whole handicap system absolutely ruins racehorsing . Its been designed specifically for the 'pulling' of horses when they reach their achieveable mark. Like how do they justify having class z racing with 45-60 handicappers, shouldn't be let any where near a racecourse but you obviously have people punting on it.
You then have trainers and jockeys having utter contempt for the punters who, it could be argued the sport wouldn't exist without. I vaguely remember ruby walsh going on about how he'd still be as busy as ever rides wise etc. without gambling in the game, that punters don't pay his wages etc. . There wouldn't be a viable racetrack in the u.k. or ireland without it for heavens sake.
Sure theres even a thread about cheltenham plot horses .

posturingpat

realdanbreen wrote: »

Have another look at it. Now if that was the finish of a Gold Cup would he have come off the horse? And if he did do you think there would be an outcry over it?

Of course there'd be an outcry because the majority of punters are complete and utter idiots.

Sure there's still clowns that are still certain Ruby jumped off Annie :rolleyes:

Just stop watching the sport.

posturingpat

volono wrote: »

nothing to do with pocket talk etc. but if people honestly believe jockeys aren't asked/told to do certain instructions on racehorses they're deluded, and i agree it does look a little suspect but if he really wanted the horse to lose he would have rode an entirely different race tbh. Personally i think the whole handicap system absolutely ruins racehorsing . Its been designed specifically for the 'pulling' of horses when they reach their achieveable mark. Like how do they justify having class z racing with 45-60 handicappers, shouldn't be let any where near a racecourse but you obviously have people punting on it.
You then have trainers and jockeys having utter contempt for the punters who, it could be argued the sport wouldn't exist without. I vaguely remember ruby walsh going on about how he'd still be as busy as ever rides wise etc. without gambling in the game, that punters don't pay his wages etc. . There wouldn't be a viable racetrack in the u.k. or ireland without it for heavens sake.
Sure theres even a thread about cheltenham plot horses .

Ah here if you're suggesting trainers are saying jump off cop yourself on, there's no jockey told to get to the front on the run in or over the last flight and make the horse fall or jump off yourself.

volono

pat please read my post correctly like the second line for instance, i never said that .

posturingpat

volono wrote: »

pat please read my post correctly like the second line for instance, i never said that .

I didn't know what to make of it hence the "if".

realdanbreen

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Call me crazy dan but if he were going to throw a race wouldn't it be wiser to pull him up or something? Instead of jumping off (risking serious injury and paralysis) rather than doing it when forging clear in the straight?

Naturally enough there would be an outcry, sure don't you remember when Ruby fell on Annie Power?

I suuppose my main point PC is , would the jockey have come off the horse in the first place if it was the finish of a Gold Cup?

volono

Fair enough pat my point being is that jockeys are given instructions daily on what to do with the horse. sure you'll even hear it when a jock is pulled by the stewards '' first run in x amount of time , it fell, unseated ,was brought down last time out, back from injury, bloodvessel the list goes on , trainer said to drop him out etc. etc. and when i went to go he found nothing etc. etc. etc. the world and its mother knows the thing isn't fully wound up and its out for a racecourse gallop for countless different reasons. I know this is a complete over generalisation but scenarios like this are constantly going on to think otherwise is silly.
Breen i can't agree, how can you ever know, ridiculous hypothetical

volono

Fair enough pat my point being is that jockeys are given instructions daily on what to do with the horse. sure you'll even hear it when a jock is pulled by the stewards '' first run in x amount of time , it fell, unseated ,was brought down last time out, back from injury, bloodvessel the list goes on , trainer said to drop him out etc. etc. and when i went to go he found nothing etc. etc. etc. the world and its mother knows the thing isn't fully wound up and its out for a racecourse gallop for countless different reasons. I know this is a complete over generalisation but scenarios like this are constantly going on to think otherwise is silly.
Breen i can't agree, how can you ever know, ridiculous hypothetical

realdanbreen

posturingpat wrote: »

Of course he jumped off sure it's all a fix, cowboys the lot of them, Greatrex laid the bolox off it happy days, Cheltenham covered :rolleyes::mad:

You're being a bit harsh there pat.

danganabu

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Call me crazy dan

I think that moniker may already be taken Peintre, you will have to come up with another one!

danganabu

volono wrote: »

Personally i think the whole handicap system absolutely ruins racehorsing . Its been designed specifically for the 'pulling' of horses when they reach their achieveable mark

No and no, what you have described are unfortunate side affects of the handicap system not the purpose of it.

realdanbreen

danganabu wrote: »

Specsavers have an offer on at the moment, you should consider it.

Have you anything to offer to this other than childish comments?

Francie Barrett

If anything I thought the horse sensed the jockey had maybe shifted weight and then realised if it just jinked out the other way, it could get rid of him. If that is the case (and it definitely is), then I think we may just have opened an altogether more insidious chapter in horse racing where it's the horses that are laying themselves. The shocking thing is that there is nothing that the BHA, nor the punter can do. The rules of racing clearly state that a jockey or trainer cannot bet against themselves. Incredibly, there isn't a single word that says that a horse cannot lay itself.

realdanbreen

Well I have slowed it down and looked at it again and sorry but I feel if that was the run in to a Gold cup the jockey would not have come off. I'm not suggesting anything untoward took place but it's like Leicester the other night, when you are up for it or at full concentration these things don't happen.

finbarrk

realdanbreen wrote: »

No. I haven't played in the premier league either(you probably have done that also) but that doesn't mean I can't give an opinion on a game.

Nonsense. If you haven't ever ridden a horse you haven't a clue. Playing football and opinions is different.

realdanbreen

finbarrk wrote: »

Nonsense. If you haven't ever ridden a horse you haven't a clue. Playing football and opinions is different.

Who said I had'nt ridden a horse?

danganabu

realdanbreen wrote: »

I have watched this several times and I'm afraid each time I watch it I am less inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

realdanbreen wrote: »

I'm not suggesting anything untoward took place.

Which is it?

realdanbreen wrote: »

Have you anything to offer to this other than childish comments?

As I have told you many times on previous threads, you haven't the first clue what you are talking about.

I'm not sure what more comment can be made about your accusations against this jockey, its absolutely ludicrous and something that one would come to expect off the ''boys'' down the bookies who wouldn't know one end of a horse from the other.

realdanbreen

danganabu wrote: »

its absolutely ludicrous and something that one would come to expect off the ''boys'' down the bookies who wouldn't know one end of a horse from the other.

Aren't you being a bit eliteist there son?

danganabu

realdanbreen wrote: »

Aren't you being a bit eliteist there son?

No, merely stating a fact father.

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

No. I haven't played in the premier league either(you probably have done that also) but that doesn't mean I can't give an opinion on a game.

I have done and still do, less often now granted. Im not even going to dignify the second part of your post with a response as its totally unrelated.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion, so am I and everyone else here. In my opinion (based on the fact that I have actually ridden thoroughbred race horses and you havent), your understanding of the quirky spooky nature and the fact that horses are susceptible to jilt, buck or throw their riders over the slightest change in circumstances (through their sight, hearing or touch) is lacking.

To quote a true movie legend Clint Eastwood: "Opinions are like árseholes-everyone has them". Except some of choose not to talk through them.

realdanbreen

allthedoyles wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfDW3Bh7sEA

Anyone back this one today . Gavin Sheehan on the 4/11 favourite . Seemingly the horse ducked away from the whip !

What's your own opinion OP?

realdanbreen

TheTorment wrote: »

I have done and still do, less often now granted. Im not even going to dignify the second part of your post with a response as its totally unrelated.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion, so am I and everyone else here. In my opinion (based on the fact that I have actually ridden thoroughbred race horses and you havent), your understanding of the quirky spooky nature and the fact that horses are susceptible to jilt, buck or throw their riders over the slightest change in circumstances (through their sight, hearing or touch) is lacking.

To quote a true movie legend Clint Eastwood: "Opinions are like árseholes-everyone has them". Except some of choose not to talk through them.

So with your knowledge and experience, at what point in the video did you notice the horse 'jilt' or 'buck' ?

Shemale

realdanbreen wrote: »

Well I have slowed it down and looked at it again and sorry but I feel if that was the run in to a Gold cup the jockey would not have come off..

What like the Foxhunters (amateur Gold Cup) where Oscar Delta got rid of Mangan?

Do you think the laws of gravity are affected by the name of the race?

Gregk961

I dont quite get your point either way Dan. So you dont think anything sinister was going on, but you think Sheehan wasnt too bothered about getting over the line because it wasn't a Gold Cup(strange comparison but I'll go along with it)- Is that what you are trying to say?

I would be of the opinion that a jockey like Gavin Sheehan would care a lot more about a low grade novice race at Ffos Las than most of the top jockeys to be fair.

posturingpat

Not sure how to take half these comments. How many are being serious here?

At about 13 or 14 seconds the horse clearly jinx away from the whip and veers left, in order to try straighten the horse up Sheehan switches hands and gives the horse a crack with his left and the horse jinx right and gravity takes over, if you boys/girls seriously can not see this and reckon the jockey jumped off for the fun of it just give up on the sport.

Please tell me this has been a massive wind up :mad:

posturingpat

Gregk961 wrote: »

I dont quite get your point either way Dan. So you dont think anything sinister was going on, but you think Sheehan wasnt too bothered about getting over the line because it wasn't a Gold Cup(strange comparison but I'll go along with it)- Is that what you are trying to say?

I would be of the opinion that a jockey like Gavin Sheehan would care a lot more about a low grade novice race at Ffos Las than most of the top jockeys to be fair.

He's only back from injury 3 or 4 weeks too, all the more reason to get a few falls/jumps in for practice :rolleyes:

volono

danganabu wrote: »

No and no, what you have described are unfortunate side affects of the handicap system not the purpose of it.

''unfortunate'' it's alot worse than that Dan , it ruins the integrity of the whole sport , without question. Whats even sadder is that the bookies almost play up to the whole agenda of it, ''certain trainer plots 3 horses and wins x amount etc.'' , which makes the public think its great, but realistically, in the most horrible insidious way. Sadder still is when you then try and get a bet down on something --best of luck!!.
Look at a trainer virtually everyone with a passing interest will know 'sir' mark prescott , he's made a career out of exploiting the handicap system as it is -- its a joke. The whole lot of it needs a complete overhaul , top to bottom. It'll never happen mind , they just love coming up with ridiculous regulations like x amount of whips in the final furlong etc. -- everything is rosy, above board -- unbelievable

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

So with your knowledge and experience, at what point in the video did you notice the horse 'jilt' or 'buck' ?

around the 14/15 seconds in mark.

Nonoperational

Just got completely unbalanced in my opinion.

realdanbreen

TheTorment wrote: »

around the 14/15 seconds in mark.

We will have to agree to differ but as the commentator himself said 'he's veering' which he did ever so slightly to the left. At no stage did he jilt or bolt as you mentioned earlier.

paddy no 11

Just watching panorama doc on graham bradley and brendan wright from the 90's. No opinion on this thread but it does stink yes

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

We will have to agree to differ but as the commentator himself said 'he's veering' which he did ever so slightly to the left. At no stage did he jilt or bolt as you mentioned earlier.

Your opinion. I accept it.

My opinion: I cant fathom that you might insinuate that this was anything other than an accident and completely out of the jockey's control.
Again in my opinion, you are an argumentative troll, the type that destroys decent forums such as this and that the site would be far better rid of.
I shall not be feeding you any more on this or any other thread.

allthedoyles

realdanbreen wrote: »

What's your own opinion OP?

Looks dodgy to me .........He actually stood in the stirrup for a second as if choosing how he was going to fall and he didn't seem to make any effort to get back in saddle or hold on .

realdanbreen

TheTorment wrote: »

Your opinion. I accept it.

My opinion: I cant fathom that you might insinuate that this was anything other than an accident and completely out of the jockey's control.
Again in my opinion, you are an argumentative troll, the type that destroys decent forums such as this and that the site would be far better rid of.
I shall not be feeding you any more on this or any other thread.

When you say that you can't fathom that this was anything other than an accident you remind me of the judge speaking all those years ago about the Birmingham six when he said it would be an 'appalling vista' to contemplate that they might have been framed. BTW trying to insult me into the bargain doesn't do your argument any favours either.

allthedoyles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzDUsDnnHYQ

This is Gavin talking after the race

paddy no 11

Those panorama documentarys are depressing but in fairness to the brits I think they run a tight ship these days unlike here

The relationship between bookmakers and jockeys/yards here is not cosher imo

posturingpat

Holy sweet mother of Jesus

BumperD

*********Fake News*********

Shemale

I was just driving by this thread and had to slow down.

If I think I have it right:

1. Sheehan deliberately jumped off the horse
2. He got a few bob for doing it
3. It's a miscarriage of justice on the scale of the Birmingham Six
4. Graham Bradley is involved

No sign of Wexford so have to imbed this.

realdanbreen

Maybe pull in altogether Shemale and read again. My point is that if that was a gold cup race and not a race in ffos las then Sheehan would have been so focussed and concentrated that the horseveering to the left- and that is what happened, the commentator even said it, no point in anyone going on about jinking, jilting or bolting- would not have caused him to come off the horse.

realdanbreen

danganabu wrote: »

This coming from the lad who states that he had at least 6 horses ahead of Thistlecrack before its withdrawal, and not including Djakadam.........we are worse for taking the time to even attempt to engage in intelligent conversation with you.

I had probably 8 ahead of him as I don't believe he is ever likely to win a gold cup. You otoh seem to make your judgement on whatever paddy power tells you to do.

convert

An interesting and very topical thread and great to have such enthusiastic discussion on it, just let's keep it all civil and attach the post rather than the poster.