Declining a "Promotion"

ifElseThen

Hi,
Have been offered a promotion into a Lead Role.
Lot of extra responsibility:

• line management of a team of devs
• forecasting
• planning
• larger set of projects
• reporting higher up the chain
• etc. etc.

No extra money upfront.
1) Is this usual? I know you move to get the cash
2) I didn't seek the promo, they came to me asking if I wanted it.

Comfortable atm in current role, no requirement for OT, work life balance is good etc.

How do I respectfully decline and am I right in saying the company can't really use this against me?

pilly

No extra money??? I'd be running a mile.

No, they can't use it against you, unless of course you do want to go further up the ladder later on in your career. They may then come back and say you've turned it down in the past.

Samuel T. Cogley

I've never met a manager who progressed by doing these sort of lead in roles with no money. You have to call their bluff and say you either think I'm ready or I'm not, worth the money or not. That's not to say you shouldn't be looking at ad hoc extra duties to progress.

However in my experience the company has always looked at the 'probation' person doing it at no extra money and found fault. They then make an external appointment who makes an even bigger hames of it.

2Mad2BeMad

I was in a similar situation last week OP.

Offered a promotion loads of extra responsibility.
I ask my boss what's bump up in wages would I be getting. He laughed and said nothing for the 1st year but MAYBE after.

I laughed back and said come back to me in a year and MAYBE il take up the offer.
Basically I said no.
Why take on so much more responsibilities for nothing extra. It adds to stress it's the reason we expect more wages for it.

I have no desire to go up the food chain where I work op so make your decision wisely if it's a career thing

2Mad2BeMad

I was in a similar situation last week OP.

Offered a promotion loads of extra responsibility.
I ask my boss what's bump up in wages would I be getting. He laughed and said nothing for the 1st year but MAYBE after.

I laughed back and said come back to me in a year and MAYBE il take up the offer.
Basically I said no.
Why take on so much more responsibilities for nothing extra. It adds to stress it's the reason we expect more wages for it.

I have no desire to go up the food chain where I work op so make your decision wisely if it's a career thing

ifElseThen

Yeah boss came back with the usual, "there's no money on the table but we'll review it in a year".
If I say no I stay doing what I'm doing and they hire in: "of course we'll pay extra for hiring external."
Flawed logic to me but anyway!

I want to move up the chain but not necessarily with this crowd.

mitresize5

You might ruffle a few feathers if you accept it but you'll be respected a lot more than if you take it.

A lot of corporates work this way these days. You take on the additional responsibility today, prove yourself in the role and then they appoint you at the higher rank to that role maybe 6 months or so later.

If this is the culture of your company in general, then there's nothing wrong, and I'd take the opportunity if you feel up for the role. However, if it's not how things or done normally, then I would question why the lack of promotion/salary increase etc.

OP- your post hasn't surprised me in that I'm used to that approach, but it appears to have surprised you, so either you're not familiar with how your company appoints Lead roles, or that they're doing something different in your case- you need to find out a bit more as to the rationale before deciding..

_Brian

My gut reaction is don't do it unless they're giving you money to do it.

However I would point out your being very innocent to think things like that aren't remembered and regurgitated in the future. Yes they would be mad to document in the future this is the reason but it doesn't prohibit it being talked unofficially in meetings.

You would be shocked in senior settings the petty things that are dragged up from the past as reasons to deny promotions or screw someone over, I've seen it many times.

silent_spark

If you're anyway interesting in moving up in your career, I would suggest you take it - for a limited period. Even if you're not given a pay rise in this company, having proven yourself in the role will stand to you when moving on to an external position (if that's what you want). Perhaps suggest you'd be happy to take a token increase in salary for now, on the understanding that it will be reviewed to €X on successful completion of a probationary period.

wirelessdude01

I was in a similar position a good few years ago in a big telecoms company. Declined it and straight away obtained the same position in a competitor. Less than a year later I was hired back by the original company for the position they had originally offered but with a 23k bump in salary from what they wanted me to work at originally.

Maybe take it but start looking externally straight away.

uck51js9zml2yt

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I was in a similar position a good few years ago in a big telecoms company. Declined it and straight away obtained the same position in a competitor. Less than a year later I was hired back by the original company for the position they had originally offered but with a 23k bump in salary from what they wanted me to work at originally.

Maybe take it but start looking externally straight away.

What he said^^^
Use it as a springboard to get a similar role outside with more money.
When your boss asks why your leaving...Well they were willing to pay me for the job!

Ragnar Lothbrok

Jesus, if this is the way private industry conducts itself, thank God I'm in the public sector :eek:

Mountains more work, pressure and responsibility BUT no extra cash? It's massively unfair. If they offered extra money but stipulated that if you weren't up to the job after a probationary period of, say six months, you would be put back to your former post and salary, that would be worth taking.

AndrewJRenko

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Jesus, if this is the way private industry conducts itself, thank God I'm in the public sector :eek:

If fairness, a lot of public sector folks lost acting-up allowances in recent years too.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056490257

ifElseThen wrote: »

Hi,
Have been offered a promotion into a Lead Role.
Lot of extra responsibility:

• line management of a team of devs
• forecasting
• planning
• larger set of projects
• reporting higher up the chain
• etc. etc.

No extra money upfront.
1) Is this usual? I know you move to get the cash
2) I didn't seek the promo, they came to me asking if I wanted it.

Comfortable atm in current role, no requirement for OT, work life balance is good etc.

How do I respectfully decline and am I right in saying the company can't really use this against me?

I don't think anyone here can tell you the impacts if you decline. It really depends on your organisational culture more than any legislation. If they want to find a way to use it against you, they probably will.

Don't rush into this. If you're not really looking for this kind role, there is a good change that it won't work out for you. I'm not being critical of you, but just pointing out the need for good motivation.

But to be honest, if it is a supervisory or management role, some level of negotiation skills will probably be required. If you want to go ahead, you can start practicing your negotiation skills by trying to make a deal. At a minimum, there should be a specific commitment to a specific increase at a specific time in the future, subject to meeting specific goals.

Wabbit Ears

Take the Job, get the experience, Update your CV and Linkedin and start actively looking for a equal level position with associated pay bump.

Or dont take it, your name is forever mud, polish off your CV and go looking for a new Job at your current level.

My advice is You're basically been given a free open jobs market pay scale bump so take it.

Truth is companies never give big pay realises for internal promotions, You need to climb the ladder in the company your in, suck it up and then move to get a significant pay increase. Just my experience of course, others probably have moved up in companies and gotten decent pay bumps along the way But Ive never really seen that happen.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Oops69

no extra money ?, has to be an American company , in this case the cliche is true , they really are ' full of **** '.

Etc

Bottom line is a promotion means a positive change to your terms or conditions. If that's not the case it's a title change.

Eric Cartman

is there any short course / qualification that would help you do this new role better ? a project management vert or some such , if so , say to them, give me that starting immediately and in 6 months time if I meet certain targets I get a fixed increase in salary and 6 months after that if I'm still doing well you pay me the going rate for that position with a years experience.

all in writing, all benefits you, your training benefits them.

heroics

I agree with wabbit ears. If it's a multinational they rarely give decent pay rises in my experience. Take the job and immediately update CV and look for new job that pays the going rate for that position.

Have you looked up what the going rate is for the job role online?
Use that as part of your discussion when you go back into them maybe.

daheff

Its a sad state of affairs when companies think they can offer you a promotion with extra responsibilities but expect you to do it for no extra money.

OP- you have 2 choices...but unfortunately they both seem to be pointing towards the exit door


1- Take job for no more money...get experience and move to a company that will pay for the job
2- Turn down the job. Expect manager to take the hump with you and make life a bit difficult (maybe not straightaway, but over time). -I'm basing this expectation on the type of manager who would pull this kinda of stunt.


3- Take job for no more money and be walked all over by the manager.

sorry op

beauf

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Jesus, if this is the way private industry conducts itself, thank God I'm in the public sector :eek:...

Usually the same only instead of 6 months you'll be in it years in PS.

beauf

heroics wrote: »

I agree with wabbit ears. If it's a multinational they rarely give decent pay rises in my experience. Take the job and immediately update CV and look for new job that pays the going rate for that position. ...

Thats what I'd do.

You can't really refuse it or you'll regret it forever. They won't treat you the same.

Victor

It could also be a test of your negotiating skills. If you can't hustle your boss for pay raise, how are you going to hustle a client to get paid more?

Victor

Victor wrote: »

It could also be a test of your negotiating skills. If you can't hustle your boss for pay raise, how are you going to hustle a client to get paid more?

He's going to be managing a team of devs not making multi-million sales. It sounds like its honestly not been as well thought out as what you have suggested.

OP, clincher question: Do you get a title bump? If you take the promotion will you be Senior Software Dev or will you be Dev Lead?

As other posters said, whatever you decide spells a quick exit from the company. Accept it, update youre linkedin with your new title, wait for the recruiters to ring you. Dont accept it, update linkedin, see above.

Mellor

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Mountains more work, pressure and responsibility BUT no extra cash?

Mountains more work? Where did OP say that?
He same more responsibility, and he'll be doing stuff that he isn't doing now. But presumably he won't have to maintain his current workload in addition.
People are really assuming how big this promotion is and how much he's being walked on.


OP you are getting mixed responses as there's no real scale to how big this "promotion" is.
If you are filling a position where a senior staff member is leaving, and a significant jump up the ladder. A established position with others in similar roles. Then you might be foolish to jump in with no reassurances of an increase in future.

On the other had, the fact there is no extra money on offer isn't a good reason to refuse absolutely all "promotions" imo. If there are 5 staff, and the boss needs one you to be the manager for the sake of structure. It might be worth talking it, a senior title, same hours 9-5 hours, and most likely first in line for a real promotion (or a bargaining tool going elsewhere).

There's no way anyone can tell you without knowing all the details.

ifElseThen

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

If they offered extra money but stipulated that if you weren't up to the job after a probationary period of, say six months, you would be put back to your former post and salary, that would be worth taking.

Yes this was one of my issues. Potentially I'd be measured against tougher objectives and could potentially get a negative review if it didn't work out and where would that leave me?

They previously offered me a similar role last year for €5k extra upfront. Initially they said if it didn't work out, I'd have to leave, that there would be no way back to the current role.

I turned this previous role offer down after consideration and the COO got very petty. I asked for redundancy and they never got back to me.

I was moved to this current section and am happy enough here doing what I do.

ifElseThen

daheff wrote: »

Turn down the job. Expect manager to take the hump with you and make life a bit difficult (maybe not straightaway, but over time). -I'm basing this expectation on the type of manager who would pull this kinda of stunt.(

I turned down a similar role last year and things got awkward and petty on the company side. Effectively demoted on same pay but only person to not get the monetary bonus etc. But no chance was I being pushed out so here I am a year later

ahnowbrowncow

Can you say you will do it for xxxxx extra per annum. You're not declining it, they will be if they don't accept this but you're stating you're happy to step up and take on the extra responsibility but you realise you'll be worth more to the company.

Dial Hard

ifElseThen wrote:

They previously offered me a similar role last year for €5k extra upfront. Initially they said if it didn't work out, I'd have to leave, that there would be no way back to the current role.

Well this changes things. Methinks you should have taken the role last year when the extra 5k was on offer for it. They're now offering it again, but without the 5k and if you say no, you'll essentially have declined two promotions. If you think they got petty last time, wait til you see what happens this time. I suspect you'll be managed out as quickly as they can do so without getting sued.

Ragnar Lothbrok

Dial Hard wrote: »

Well this changes things. Methinks you should have taken the role last year when the extra 5k was on offer for it. They're now offering it again, but without the 5k and if you say no, you'll essentially have declined two promotions. If you think they got petty last time, wait til you see what happens this time. I suspect you'll be managed out as quickly as they can do so without getting sued.

But the extra 5K came with the risk of the OP losing their job altogether if things didn't work out. Now they're offering the same promotion with no extra pay.

Neither of these situations would encourage me to take the promotion. If the OP is good enough at their current job to be offered the same promotion TWICE why don't the company make it attractive enough to the OP to take it?

spaceHopper

Firstly, if things didn't work out they would have to show they tried very hard to address any problems, training.... then fire you, it would not be a case of you having to leave that would be your own choice.

You have a few choices,
turn it down, leave
turn it down, and stay
tell them you'll take it but it should come with a 20% pay rise, till you've proven yourself you'll met them in the middle and take 10 but in a year you want another 10, it should be in the contract. Anything less and you'll be selling your self short. If they don't agree you have to decline but that will be their choice.
take it and say nothing, see how things go.
take it and start looking make them match any offer.
If you haven't decided already take a look around the office and see who else they will go to if you don't take it do you want to work for them

CalamariFritti

Like others before me already said.

It wouldn't be unusual at all if you do this for a while reasonably well but that review and that pay rise never happens. Eventually you will be replaced by that person with experience/credentials they wanted all along. You're back to where you started and will feel like a failure. Whereas that other person will be on significantly more money straight away and soon be going places, too.

Its a cr@p situation to be in as its easy to feel like hey they're giving me a chance, but quite often they're really not.
I'm speaking from experience.

Take the job with all the upgrades or don't take it at all.

tomwaits48

Take the job but insist they pay market rates after a trial period of say 6 months, and have this figure agreed now, upfront.