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Why did they do what they did to the mini?

  • 26-02-2017 1:58am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 10,851 ✭✭✭✭ Andy From Sligo


    Mini's loved them - why when they re-introduced them to the market did they have to radicalise them and change them so much?

    The good ol' 998cc Mini used to be a cheap car ... now what is this mini for, the elite with its high price?

    Mini - used to be a small car, great to drive on bends, low to the ground, ultra easy to park

    Why didnt they just keep bodywork/style the same but bring the 998cc engine up to date (removed the carb and replace it with mpi and ECU and unleaded) and just update the breaking and the dash and put in steering wheel with airbag, central locking and leave it at that?

    Wouldnt it have been a great little runaround cheap economical car for people like me who used to love the old type minis?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,676 ✭✭✭✭ Kintarō Hattori


    Seeing as it's sold shed loads I think they got it right and gave the people what they wanted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,763 Tigger


    Mini's loved them - why when they re-introduced them to the market did they have to radicalise them and change them so much?

    The good ol' 998cc Mini used to be a cheap car ... now what is this mini for, the elite with its high price?

    Mini - used to be a small car, great to drive on bends, low to the ground, ultra easy to park

    Why didnt they just keep bodywork/style the same but bring the 998cc engine up to date (removed the carb and replace it with mpi and ECU and unleaded) and just update the breaking and the dash and put in steering wheel with airbag, central locking and leave it at that?

    Wouldnt it have been a great little runaround cheap economical car for people like me who used to love the old type minis?

    the new mini didnt mean you cant have an old mini anymore

    i drive one ofe these


    4630a79b9122249167483aac99f1e56f.jpg]


    its nicer than one of these in my opinion


    bmw-645ci-photo-9324-s-429x262.jpg

    but people now have a choice


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,851 ✭✭✭✭ Andy From Sligo


    People dont have a choice as such because if a middle age person like me wanted to relive those golden years they could by the same shape mini, updated .

    Even if I had the money and I could buy say a 171 mini in Alec Issigonis original design but up to date specs with 1ltr mpi engine I couldnt, I think if they were manufactured they would be as popular as they was if not more


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,851 ✭✭✭✭ Andy From Sligo


    Seeing as it's sold shed loads I think they got it right and gave the people what they wanted.

    I think the original design mini would sell like hot cakes too


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 33,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    The new mini is actually MINI. It's got pretty much nothing to do with the old car.
    Nonetheless, if you were to update the ulold car to meet modern customer expectations along with legislative requirements on things like side impact protection and airbags, would it still stay the same size?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,811 ✭✭✭✭ MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    The first gen of new mini was cool as ****.

    Everything since then has just gotten worse.

    It's now a boxy ugly yoke with four doors and sometimes a kind of estate. It's absolutely horrible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,777 ✭✭✭✭ mickdw


    If wouldn't be possible to produce the old mini today with the safety requirements that need to be met now. If was of its time. You can however buy an old mini to pretty much any spec you wish. Fuel injection, more powerful brakes and central locking should be easily found in an old mini.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,851 ✭✭✭✭ Andy From Sligo


    mickdw wrote: »
    If wouldn't be possible to produce the old mini today with the safety requirements that need to be met now. If was of its time. You can however buy an old mini to pretty much any spec you wish. Fuel injection, more powerful brakes and central locking should be easily found in an old mini.

    That's the only way I will get sorted then when I win the lotto, I will get myself one of them . I bet they are a pretty penny now. What's the score about nct tests, do they need them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,646 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    Funny, I was on the motorway yesterday and saw a 'new' mini and marvelled that it was an 02.
    I.e. 15 years old!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,732 ✭✭✭ Arthur Daley


    You can always get a fiat panda. Closest to a spiritual successor to the old cinquecento/mini?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭ Seweryn


    Whatever about the Mini, it is still a lot more in line with the original one than the "New Beetle" (AKA a Golf with rounded body) with its original model.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,777 ✭✭✭✭ mickdw


    Seweryn wrote: »
    Whatever about the Mini, it is still a lot more in line with the original one than the "New Beetle" (AKA a Golf with rounded body) with its original model.

    The very latest new beetle is quite cool. The new beetle from around 2000 was not so nice and yes nothing like the original.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭ Type 17


    Cars which are very popular, and have long production lives in their original form eventually end up being discontinued because of advancements in design, manufacturing costs, emissions legislation, safety legislation and (eventually) declining sales, as the number of buyers who see them as outdated begins to outweigh the number of buyers who love the design/see the nostalgia.
    Often there is still a market for the model, but it becomes too costly to get it to meet current legislation (the Lada was withdrawn from Europe because it couldn't be easily updated for Euro4 emissions in the early 2000's, and the Mk1 Golf eventually ceased in South Africa in 2010 because, by then, all cars sold there were required to have driver airbags and it wasn't cost-effective to fit one in to a early 70's-designed shell.

    The original Beetle & T2 Van bit the dust in Mexico and South America around the same time, but had still been popular due to cheaper purchase costs and simple repair costs, coupled with familiarity in the repair trade, but even there, the reasons mentioned above eventually caught up with them.

    Apart from the Lada, Mini and the VW's mentioned above, the list of long production runs also includes the Land Rover and the FX4 London Taxi, but all of these have now ceased production.
    The only vehicle still being made from before WW2 is the Morgan Plus4 and it survives because it is hand-built in small numbers, with full on-site control by a small team, so the costs of changing things for new standards are minimal (engines have always been bought in from existing, bigger manufacturers, so all that expensive development work is already done).

    The "new" MINI, Fiat 500, Beetle(s) etc, are a marketing tool to cash in on the nostalgia factor, whilst addressing the technical/cost issues, and although most of them are good cars in their own right, they can never be compared with their supposed predecessors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭ Agricola


    They did it to sell units by the boatload. Creating a modern, refined, larger and safer car with stylings lifted from the old Mini was the only way they could make it a realistic daily driver option. I had a Rover Mini for a couple of years and while I loved it for Sunday spins and shows, there was no way I could use it as my main car. Too cramped, not comfortable for longer journeys and of course a death trap if you had a tip.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭ macplaxton


    Why didnt they just keep bodywork/style the same but bring the 998cc engine up to date (removed the carb and replace it with mpi and ECU and unleaded) and just update the breaking and the dash and put in steering wheel with airbag, central locking and leave it at that?

    They did that in the early 1990s. Single point injection / cat / unleaded. May have even lobbed a brake servo on it, can't remember.

    Then in the late 1990s, they spent quite a few quid on keeping it going until the new one was ready. Then it got multipoint injection, electronic ignition, radiator moved to the front, steering wheel with airbag and side impact door beams.

    So I'm not getting the "Why didn't?" part of the question when they actually did. :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,851 ✭✭✭✭ Andy From Sligo


    macplaxton wrote:
    So I'm not getting the "Why didn't?" part of the question when they actually did.

    Right thanks, I suppose I should have worded it why didn't they stick with that design to today instead of the bulbous BMW MINI shape that's out these days.

    So you know when they put the radiator at the front on those updated minis in the 90s did that change the original design of the front or did it stay the same with the 2 large sealed beams or did the lights go to halogen dip/main bulbs?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,258 ✭✭✭✭ Esel


    Because Marc Bolan.

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭ ZV Yoda


    Mg-Rv8-1993.jpg

    In the early-mid 90's, Rover did something similar. They introduced the MGR V8. It was an updated version of the old MGB, but with a a 3.9 litre V8 engine.

    It only sold in limited numbers. I seriously doubt it would meet any modern safety or emission standards, but it looked amazing in the flesh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,851 ✭✭✭✭ Andy From Sligo


    ZV Yoda wrote: »
    Mg-Rv8-1993.jpg

    In the early-mid 90's, Rover did something similar. They introduced the MGR V8. It was an updated version of the old MGB, but with a a 3.9 litre V8 engine.

    It only sold in limited numbers. I seriously doubt it would meet any modern safety or emission standards, but it looked amazing in the flesh.

    wow, I love it :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,571 Special Circumstances


    The first gen of new mini was cool as ****.

    Everything since then has just gotten worse.

    It's now a boxy ugly yoke with four doors and sometimes a kind of estate. It's absolutely horrible.

    I swear the chinese knock of the the first gen new MINI looks better than what BMW have morphed MINI into these days.

    The Lifan 330,
    document_service_137164_384_5_1137836978.jpg
    actually has the engine from first gen mini - which was waaaaaay more robust than the PSA/BMW "PRINCE" engine that MINI replaced the tritec with.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,851 ✭✭✭✭ Andy From Sligo


    I swear the chinese knock of the the first gen new MINI looks better than what BMW have morphed MINI into these days.

    The Lifan 330,
    document_service_137164_384_5_1137836978.jpg
    actually has the engine from first gen mini - which was waaaaaay more robust than the PSA/BMW "PRINCE" engine that MINI replaced the tritec with.

    I love it - the model without airbags got zero out of 5 in safety tests, not surprising I suppose.

    we need a good (safe) small size car of old original mini dimensions here in Ireland with a 1.0 litre SPI or MPI engine in it for car Tax etc

    too many small cars are available that have 1100 or 1300 engines which is pushing up cost of owning cars especially with first time drivers or people who want to drive on a budget and just want a runaround and not necessarily a family car with a big boot. - old type Mini with the 998cc engine sufficed that .

    My 2000 SEAT Ibiza had a 1.0ltr MPi in it and it went grand even with a big body that it had... yes the power wasnt there when overtaking and climbing hills as such but it was a nice cheap car to tax and insure etc.

    Trouble is these days in Ireland if you do find a car in or around 1litre they only have 3 cylinders and are lumpy when idling and are only 8valve (or is that 6 valve?)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭ JohnBoy26


    I swear the chinese knock of the the first gen new MINI looks better than what BMW have morphed MINI into these days.

    The Lifan 330,
    document_service_137164_384_5_1137836978.jpg
    actually has the engine from first gen mini - which was waaaaaay more robust than the PSA/BMW "PRINCE" engine that MINI replaced the tritec with.

    You are joking?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,571 Special Circumstances


    JohnBoy26 wrote: »
    You are joking?

    You think the new minis look good? The 5 door?

    2017-mini-cooper-sd-5-door-4.jpg

    Seriously though... that grille, that bumper... that ass?

    2015-mini-cooper-s-4-door-hardtop-catskill-mountains-ny-apr-2015_100508843_l.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,571 Special Circumstances


    JohnBoy26 wrote: »
    You are joking?

    1962MiniTraveller-c.jpg

    TO

    008a0faeaf7e3b96269eda828c9d46b7.jpg

    To

    mini_cooper_s_clubman_all4_31.jpg

    Nailed it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,571 Special Circumstances


    JohnBoy26 wrote: »
    You are joking?

    Hahaha... I had you going there didn't I?

    Obviously I'm joking, I mean come on... is this a triumph of design or is this a triumph of design?

    zmini-001.jpg

    It's ...
    It's
    Just... tooo beautiful for words isn't it?

    USA-OBAMA-GUNS-3-639x400.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭ Mini850


    As a guy who had 6 or 7 classic Minis in the past, I find myself on the hunt for an 05 or 06 Mini Cooper S With the super charger.

    Ill tell you why

    In my Classic Mini days, I had the usual car snobbery attitude to the BMW Mini. Too big, too ugly, too expensive etc.

    I found my self looking for a classic mini last year after a few years of being away from them and while on the hunt, managed to bag a spin in a BMW Cooper S.

    That was the turning point.

    What ill be getting in the new mini is a fun car I can drive every day, plenty of poke and comfort compared to the classic.

    The classic is iconic. I remember having everything from a black mayfair with a bored out 1380cc MG metro engine in it, Hi-Lo's, bucket seats and not much else, to a Mini City 850cc which had a top speed of 65mph. Loved them both.

    But you couldn't drive them through a puddle without them getting the rust disease and if I had gotten one, I'd definitely had to keep some other yolk going for every day driving as the Mini just wouldn't take it.

    They did update the classic to the spec you mentioned in the last few years of production. But to bring it back to a car you could drive today, a LOT would need to change........and it did......hence the BMW Mini.

    Safety regulations alone would have changed the shape of the mini such as crash ratings. The A Series engines are from the 40s-50s, no way could they be modernised sufficiently.

    The classic will remain a classic and I will have another some day, but for me......right now.......I'm going for a BMW Cooper S. What a car.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,571 Special Circumstances


    The r53 is a far cry from some of the later abominations. The best thing that be said for some of the later models is that they made the first generation look closer to the original classic than many felt they were when they first came out. If you get me!


  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭ Mini850


    The r53 is a far cry from some of the later abominations. The best thing that be said for some of the later models is that they made the first generation look closer to the original classic than many felt they were when they first came out. If you get me!

    I do,

    And thats kinda why I'm going for one of that vintage, without ever really thinking about it too much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 995 737max


    They kept making the original Mini until they legally couldn't sell it in the E.U. any more.
    I had the very last of them and they were great and if I ever become properly well-to-do again I'll buy another of the minis from the end of the line.

    The first BMW MINIs are not to be mistaken with the classic MINI but time has been kind to them and they stand on their own merits.

    The latest MINIs are horrid abominations and I can't see who would desire to own one.

    If you want a spiritual successor to the Mini then get a Seat Mii as it is as close as I can think of any car currently available that handles in a manner similar to a late model Rover Mini. Similar power, good handling, compact dimensions.
    The Mii generally has the 75bhp engine and 15 to 20mm lower suspension than the Citigo or Up!
    It will never be a classic like the Mini because it is just too plain looking to win anyone's heart but they drive very much like my Minis on backroads and around town except with a more forgiving suspension and some practicality thrown in.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,571 Special Circumstances


    737max wrote: »
    The first BMW MINIs are not to be mistaken with the classic MINI but time has been kind to them and they stand on their own merits.

    The latest MINIs are horrid abominations and I can't see who would desire to own one.
    January sales figures had them selling 90 units.... across the whole range. Duking it out with such popular marques as Subaru there in the double sales figures!


This discussion has been closed.
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