Lambing going wrong !!

Farmer Dan

I've 40 ewes to lamb & things are going very bad for the first year ever. First three ewes due Lambed perfectly last weekend. Triplets & two twins. The last two days 4 ewes Lambed that weren't due until the 7th March. One triplet, two of tge lambs OK the other was dead a while, two sets of twins , the lambs were OK & one set of twins one lamb dead a while the other small, weak & died. Feed the same as every year, never vaccinate for abortion. The only thing I can think of is a guy up the road has a field that he wanted me to graze, I housed the ewes from here. There use to be greyhounds kept in this field upto a few years ago. I'm going to get pm done next week. Any other advice / suggestions? Thanks in advance.

J.O. Farmer

If I read that right 7 ewes have lambed 4 you say were early yet 6 of these have at least 2 lambs alive and only 1 has no lamb as both her lambs died.
Firstly I think you need to relax if you think that is very bad and be thankful that you've had such a good run before this. I'll be happy with that kind of return if I get it. Very bad would be all those ewes having lambs dying and maybe finishing up with 4 or 5 lambs from 7 ewes with a ewe or 2 dead too not the 13 lambs and 7 ewes alive I make it.
By all means get a PM done but are you sure about the dates on the 4 and do the lambs look premature.

tomwaterford

Has anything happened to stress them out??

Any sudden changes in diet/dog scare them?

Farmer Dan

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

If I read that right 7 ewes have lambed 4 you say were early yet 6 of these have at least 2 lambs alive and only 1 has no lamb as both her lambs died.
Firstly I think you need to relax if you think that is very bad and be thankful that you've had such a good run before this. I'll be happy with that kind of return if I get it. Very bad would be all those ewes having lambs dying and maybe finishing up with 4 or 5 lambs from 7 ewes with a ewe or 2 dead too not the 13 lambs and 7 ewes alive I make it.
By all means get a PM done but are you sure about the dates on the 4 and do the lambs look premature.

Thanks for reply. I appreciate what you say, I know it could be a lot worse. I'm just nervous things are going to get worse.
I'm sure of the dates. I number the ewes & take note of numbers & tipping date. Green raddle not due until 7th March, orange are due now. Normally I'm only out a day or two give or take. Never this much early. Lambs look ok.

Farmer Dan

tomwaterford wrote: »

Has anything happened to stress them out??

Any sudden changes in diet/dog scare them?

Thanks for reply. No on same diet all along. There housed since after Christmas .

rangler1

Farmer Dan wrote: »

I've 40 ewes to lamb & things are going very bad for the first year ever. First three ewes due Lambed perfectly last weekend. Triplets & two twins. The last two days 4 ewes Lambed that weren't due until the 7th March. One triplet, two of tge lambs OK the other was dead a while, two sets of twins , the lambs were OK & one set of twins one lamb dead a while the other small, weak & died. Feed the same as every year, never vaccinate for abortion. The only thing I can think of is a guy up the road has a field that he wanted me to graze, I housed the ewes from here. There use to be greyhounds kept in this field upto a few years ago. I'm going to get pm done next week. Any other advice / suggestions? Thanks in advance.

PMs won't be great if the foetuses are more than 48hrs old, the fresher you get them to the lab the better, also try to get some of the cleanings as well.
The week before they're due is often the worst time....if there's anything wrong with the lambs they'll throw them out then

tomwaterford

Farmer Dan wrote: »

Thanks for reply. No on same diet all along. There housed since after Christmas .

Are the lambs fully formed,hair on ears etc....as 2 weeks out seems along off the date?

Farmer Dan

tomwaterford wrote: »

Are the lambs fully formed,hair on ears etc....as 2 weeks out seems along off the date?

There rouge lambs so hair do be scarce on there heads / ears. I can't figure it out. Never happened before & I'm nearly afraid to see a ewe starting to lamb incase it's a disaster.

tomwaterford

Farmer Dan wrote: »

There rouge lambs so hair do be scarce on there heads / ears. I can't figure it out. Never happened before & I'm nearly afraid to see a ewe starting to lamb incase it's a disaster.

How are the sheep for colostrum???

Usually lambing starts bad like that for first week and then when you get into it,it geos well


Have you/can you source pets to put under the sheep

roosky

i had ewes lamb early two years ago,

about ten had twins and trips with one fine lamb and one wean or dead lamb and the dead lad was dead a while as in half mummified,

Sounds similar enough to your story, my issue was toxo !

Sheep breeder

It could that they have a touch SVB virus a lot about this year, and several forms.

Farmer Dan

roosky wrote: »

i had ewes lamb early two years ago,

about ten had twins and trips with one fine lamb and one wean or dead lamb and the dead lad was dead a while as in half mummified,

Sounds similar enough to your story, my issue was toxo !

How did you fair out that year?

How would they have gotten this if it is toxo?

rangler1

Farmer Dan wrote: »

How did you fair out that year?

How would they have gotten this if it is toxo?

Toxo comes from cats peeing in your straw, hay,.....Toxo is dangerous to pregnant women. Sheep farmers should be sterilised before touching the wife if she's pregnant when there's a risk of toxo on the farm.

adam14

SBV here too, definitely 5 out of about 180 lambed so far

razor8

Did you get it confirmed by pm

grassroot1

I had sbv in the ewes that lambed at new year but OP it sounds like TOXO

J.O. Farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

Sheep farmers should be sterilised before touching the wife

I thought that sounded a bit harsh when there's other ways of avoiding pregnancy but then I read on and you said if she's pregnant and I realise you meant it in the sense of not carrying infection in to her from the sheep.

rangler1

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I thought that sounded a bit harsh when there's other ways of avoiding pregnancy but then I read on and you said if she's pregnant and I realise you meant it in the sense of not carrying infection in to her from the sheep.

yea, toxo can cause deformities in human foetuses

adam14

razor8 wrote:

Did you get it confirmed by pm

Too busy lambing to get to pm but vet is confident it is and had seen more signs of it in area

rangler1

I see farmers on another forum have these days christened suicide fortnight, some of them are losing a few ewes as well.
We nearly always get one or two intestinal prolapses in the weeks leading up to lambing......none this year

rangler1

adam14 wrote: »

Too busy lambing to get to pm but vet is confident it is and had seen more signs of it in area

No schmallenberg confirmed yet in Athlone lab up to a week ago, hope it stays away from here
We had lambs with all the symptoms of scmallenberg 5 or 6 years ago in the Dec/Jan lambers, lab even said it was but all the tests were negative so couldn't be confirmed.
They were born alive with bent legs and no skin on their legs...sickening

tomwaterford

rangler1 wrote: »

No schmallenberg confirmed yet in Athlone lab up to a week ago, hope it stays away from here
We had lambs with all the symptoms of scmallenberg 5 or 6 years ago in the Dec/Jan lambers, lab even said it was but all the tests were negative so couldn't be confirmed.
They were born alive with bent legs and no skin on their legs...sickening

Had a bad dose of it myself the time aswell


Lambs with solid leg joints,some big single lambs formed perfectly but tiny miniature legs

A variety of shortened legs/fused (??) Bones in legs....

One with extreme deformity....4 mini ears,one big eye and a mouth....but also a tongue out through side of skull....this lamb came out alive



Absolutely sickening having to leave lambs die/shoot perfectly formed new born lambs except maybe miniature front legs and they crawling around bawling....I felt like quitting sheep after it

Reading that it might be back around makes my blood run cold tbh

rangler1

tomwaterford wrote: »

Had a bad dose of it myself the time aswell


Lambs with solid leg joints,some big single lambs formed perfectly but tiny miniature legs

A variety of shortened legs/fused (??) Bones in legs....

One with extreme deformity....4 mini ears,one big eye and a mouth....but also a tongue out through side of skull....this lamb came out alive



Absolutely sickening having to leave lambs die/shoot perfectly formed new born lambs except maybe miniature front legs and they crawling around bawling....I felt like quitting sheep after it

Reading that it might be back around makes my blood run cold tbh

It's a shame that we're not given access to something simple to use to euthanaise them in the face of such a problem

mcgiggles

This schmallenberg.. only heard of it the other day, must look it up, is it contagious?
We had a lamb born yesterday small but perfectly formed but her front legs don't straighten fully, its not the knees its the ankle joint.. (would you even call them that?) she was weak when born and not able to get up for a while, but is up and feeding now but not overly steady.. we wanted to see how she got on, himself is going to ask the vet about it, could it be something like that causing it?

rangler1

mcgiggles wrote: »

This schmallenberg.. only heard of it the other day, must look it up, is it contagious?
We had a lamb born yesterday small but perfectly formed but her front legs don't straighten fully, its not the knees its the ankle joint.. (would you even call them that?) she was weak when born and not able to get up for a while, but is up and feeding now but not overly steady.. we wanted to see how she got on, himself is going to ask the vet about it, could it be something like that causing it?

Schmallenberg would have the legs bent solid, bones fused together, they'd never straighten, difficult even to get them straight enough for a natural lambing.....also can have all the symptoms listed above, no skin in places, eyes missing, etc.
It comes from a midge bite I think, mild winters have allowed them to occur in this country....coming from Europe, a horrible yoke

mcgiggles

Jaysus that sounds terrible, you wouldn't wish it on anyone, hopefully it stays away. We'll still ask the vet just in case but the wee girl was stronger again today, and the mother in law will pop in to check on her throughout the day so hopefully she just needs a bit of feeding up

Username John

mcgiggles wrote: »

This schmallenberg.. only heard of it the other day, must look it up, is it contagious?
We had a lamb born yesterday small but perfectly formed but her front legs don't straighten fully, its not the knees its the ankle joint.. (would you even call them that?) she was weak when born and not able to get up for a while, but is up and feeding now but not overly steady.. we wanted to see how she got on, himself is going to ask the vet about it, could it be something like that causing it?

That bent at the ankle should be fine. Seen a good few times - they sometimes walk with the ankle bent underneath for a few days, but it always straighed itself out after a while.

We always assumed it was something that came from the ram. As we'd have a go of it together maybe one season, and then mightn't see it again for a while...

adam14

mcgiggles wrote:

This schmallenberg.. only heard of it the other day, must look it up, is it contagious? We had a lamb born yesterday small but perfectly formed but her front legs don't straighten fully, its not the knees its the ankle joint.. (would you even call them that?) she was weak when born and not able to get up for a while, but is up and feeding now but not overly steady.. we wanted to see how she got on, himself is going to ask the vet about it, could it be something like that causing it?

It's could be. Mine had triple jointed legs. Some born dead at full term. All our ewes toxo and enzo vaccinated. Only a handful of them thankfully.

greysides

There's talk of Schmallenberg showing up in spots around the SE.

adam14

greysides wrote:

There's talk of Schmallenberg showing up in spots around the SE.

Yes, I'm south east. It's terrible when you work hard all year and something like this happens out of your control!

greysides

There is vaccine. It was rushed to be made available but still came out too late and uptake was poor. I'm not sure how much sense it would make financially.

adam14

It's about 5 euro a ewe. I think it doesn't make sense if you only have a handful

tomwaterford

greysides wrote: »

There is vaccine. It was rushed to be made available but still came out too late and uptake was poor. I'm not sure how much sense it would make financially.

Tbh....seeing one heavily deformed lamb/having to shoot otherwise healthy lambs as newborn would make it very cheap

Green farmer

Mine aren't due for another week or so but spotted a ewe with the start of a prolapse in the field. And so it begins ...better root out the harness, I hate prolaspes

rangler1

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbh....seeing one heavily deformed lamb/having to shoot otherwise healthy lambs as newborn would make it very cheap

€5 vaccine only lasts a year i think,
€5 per year is very expensive

Siamsa Sessions

First ewe lambed here today and I had a big pull to get dead triplets from her. I'd welcome any opinions and will try to list various bits below:

* she's been outside grazing, and getting approx. 0.5-0.7kg of 20% ration - built up over last 6 weeks from 0.2kg
* her dug was fairly small and when I checked, she had no milk
* the triplets were 4-5kg each, all fully formed, Llyen sire (no big heads)
* her poo was runny and light-ish brown the last few days - thought nothing much of this til now
* ewe herself is 2 and had a big single lamb as a ewe lamb herself last year

As I said, any opinions on what happened would be welcome. We're just getting back into sheep and have small numbers still, so I'm trying to figure out if this is just one of those things or something more serious.

Thanks.

greysides

I'd suggest: Wash your hands etc well. Isolate ewe till any discharges have stopped.

It's impossible to say with any certainty but there's enough there for me to consider Salmonellosis.

Username John

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

First ewe lambed here today and I had a big pull to get dead triplets from her. I'd welcome any opinions and will try to list various bits below:

* she's been outside grazing, and getting approx. 0.5-0.7kg of 20% ration - built up over last 6 weeks from 0.2kg
* her dug was fairly small and when I checked, she had no milk
* the triplets were 4-5kg each, all fully formed, Llyen sire (no big heads)
* her poo was runny and light-ish brown the last few days - thought nothing much of this til now
* ewe herself is 2 and had a big single lamb as a ewe lamb herself last year

As I said, any opinions on what happened would be welcome. We're just getting back into sheep and have small numbers still, so I'm trying to figure out if this is just one of those things or something more serious.

Thanks.

Is there a lab near you to take the lambs to?

Monday would hardly be too late to take em, would it Greysides?

greysides

I'd expect that it would be a case of ' the fresher, the better'. They would have to be booked in so it could be checked then. Cleaning can be as useful as carcases.
That said, I probably wouldn't panic until there was some more. What's coming is coming.... but if it continued information would be handy for next year or later lambings. Might depend on how close the lab is too.
In the meantime, hygiene, disinfection and isolation won't do any damage.

Siamsa Sessions

Thanks lads. The ewe herself was shook enough obviously after the trauma but she's been up walking since and looks like she'll be OK. I'll phone the local vet in the morning and see about a PM/lab. Out of interest, how much does this cost?

greysides

Not sure for lambs but I wouldn't think it's much.

Green farmer

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I'll phone the local vet in the morning and see about a PM/lab. Out of interest, how much does this cost?

About €20 in vet Fees and €5 lab fees

Siamsa Sessions

Spoke to vet: nearest lab is Kilkenny which is a 2-hour round trip from us. It'd be tomorrow morning before they'd get to look at the lambs which would be 36 hours since they were born so a bit of a time delay.

Vet also mentioned toxoplasmosis as being consistent with what happened. And what did I see when I went to check the ewe earlier only a big cat from the uncle's shed out in the field where the ewes are.

At this stage, I probably won't get PM on dead lambs. But if the next one is the same, then I'll be going straight to the lab in Kilkenny.

Green farmer

A visual sign of toxo is mummified lambs.

rangler1

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Spoke to vet: nearest lab is Kilkenny which is a 2-hour round trip from us. It'd be tomorrow morning before they'd get to look at the lambs which would be 36 hours since they were born so a bit of a time delay.

Vet also mentioned toxoplasmosis as being consistent with what happened. And what did I see when I went to check the ewe earlier only a big cat from the uncle's shed out in the field where the ewes are.

At this stage, I probably won't get PM on dead lambs. But if the next one is the same, then I'll be going straight to the lab in Kilkenny.

Cats are only infectious for a short while when they're a kitten. Adult cats aren't infectious.
That's why it's recommended to neuter the cats that are on your farm.......they'll keep away all other cats and you won't have kittens around the place either

Siamsa Sessions

rangler1 wrote: »

Cats are only infectious for a short while when they're a kitten. Adult cats aren't infectious.
That's why it's recommended to neuter the cats that are on your farm.......they'll keep away all other cats and you won't have kittens around the place either

I thought that it was all cats but kittens were the worst as their poo contained the most eggs.

Going to change our system next year anyway. Some serious lessons learned over the past few weeks

JMF240

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

rangler1 wrote: »

Cats are only infectious for a short while when they're a kitten. Adult cats aren't infectious.
  That's why it's recommended to neuter the cats that are on your farm.......they'll keep away all other cats and you won't have kittens around the place either

I thought that it was all cats but kittens were the worst as their poo contained the most eggs.

Going to change our system next year anyway. Some serious lessons learned over the past few weeks

Aye, I thought it was the mice/rats that were infected and the cats contract it by consuming the infected vermin. Toxo doesn't spread from sheep to sheep however (yet still zoonotic).

Green farmer

JMF240 wrote: »

Aye, I thought it was the mice/rats that were infected and the cats contract it by consuming the infected vermin. Toxo doesn't spread from sheep to sheep however (yet still zoonotic).

Lads this toxoplasmosis parasite is right nasty. They've done lab tests that show when the mouse host gets infected, the parasite can alter the brain of the mouse, where the mouse ceases to fear a cat and encourages it to be caught and eaten by the cat. Once in the flock I think it can easily transmitted through the fluids etc, hence why you can get outbreaks where large percentages of flock are infected. Went through my flock like a dose of salts a few years ago.

kk.man

Had 1st 3 lambed this morning not due till 16th ...fine healthy lambs..2 lambs dead now..couldn't figure out why..saw them suck and took it 4 granted they b ok...turned up mothers...a bag but NO MILK..how stupid i am!!! Raging I should have checked...going to buy soya in the morning to put thru the meal...was tempted to buy a bag Saturday week but thought i have really pamper them with licks etc

rangler1

kk.man wrote: »

Had 1st 3 lambed this morning not due till 16th ...fine healthy lambs..2 lambs dead now..couldn't figure out why..saw them suck and took it 4 granted they b ok...turned up mothers...a bag but NO MILK..how stupid i am!!! Raging I should have checked...going to buy soya in the morning to put thru the meal...was tempted to buy a bag Saturday week but thought i have really pamper them with licks etc

which meal are you using, should be enough protein in any of the soya based ewe rations if soya is in the first 4 or 5 on the list of ingredients'
did the ewe have any milk or was she totally dry

kk.man

rangler1 wrote: »

which meal are you using, should be enough protein in any of the soya based ewe rations if soya is in the first 4 or 5 on the list of ingredients'
did the ewe have any milk or was she totally dry

Its an 18% ration by a well known mill in leinster..soya bout 5th on the list....i say that they being 7 days early didnt give the ewes a chance to develop milk?..they both had bags but no milk coming from teats when i tried to draw them