A plot of land for sale for tiny house

Nikkla

Hi there,

Me and my partner are planning on building a tiny house. Anyone has any ideas where could we build it or knows someone who is able to sale part of their land. It would be just a little plot, we reckon only need around 200 to 250 square meters.

Metric Tensor

If you are looking for a site in the country you will most likely need 0.5 acres or more to allow a suitable sized site for a septic tank and percolation area. It's mandatory in many/most counties.

If you are looking in a town or city connected to a public sewer then you will be able to get smaller sites but if course the cost will be higher.

househero

And you are restricted on how much built up area you can have (building vs garden) depending on location.

Btw farmers have costs involved changing agri land to a site. They don't or won't do it for a tiny site. No profit, only headaches.

Look on daft for a site.

I will also add. Building a 2000sq ft house doesn't cost much more than building a 1400sq ft house. There are other (big) costs that are not directly related to how many bricks, slates and tonnes of concrete you use.

Mellor

250sqm is not a particularly tiny site in itself. I've seen many dwelling built on considerable less. But it comes down to where you are building and what you are building.

In many rural parts of the country, 250sqm is not enough for a standalone house - as described by Metric Tensor above.
In a town with services connected it's a fairly normal site, not remotely tiny imo.
In city it's a massive site. A small site would be 50sqm.

Nikkla

Hi guys, thanks for your help.

I am talking about a 400 sq ft house, so it'd be pretty small. From my understanding, as long as is less than 400 you won't need plan and permission so that's why a plot in an agriculture land might work without any problems. But to be honest I don't really now if is actually that simple. On the other hand, we probably are gonna have issues when it comes to connecting the house to a source of power and water, but again I am not 100% sure.

I was wondering if maybe someone already did it or have more information about it. We believe it could be an option to climb the property ladder without applying for an insane mortgage... and to be honest we've seen loads of pretty cool small homes that we'd be delighted to live in.

Nikkla

Hi there,

Me and my partner are planning on building a tiny house. Anyone has any ideas where could we build it or knows someone who is able to sell part of their land. It would be just a little plot, we reckon only need around 200 to 250 square meters.

I am talking about a 400 sq ft house, so it'd be pretty small. From my understanding, as long as is less than 400 you won't need plan and permission so that's why a plot in an agriculture land might work without any problems. But to be honest I don't really now if is actually that simple. On the other hand, we probably are gonna have issues when it comes to connecting the house to a source of power and water, but again I am not 100% sure.

I was wondering if maybe someone already did it or have more information about it. We believe it could be an option to climb the property ladder without applying for an insane mortgage... and to be honest we've seen loads of pretty cool small homes that we'd be delighted to live in.

Thanks.

Dudda

Of course you need planning permission. No new house is exempt no matter the size.

You obviously don't mind a commute as you didn't state where you intend to build

Nikkla

Thanks Dudda,

What about if is on someone else's land where a house was built already, would you be able to build without planning permission, sort kind of annex or extension...

Metric Tensor

No - you need planning permission. Even if it was only 40 square feet.

Gumbo

Nikkla wrote: »

Thanks Dudda,

What about if is on someone else's land where a house was built already, would you be able to build without planning permission, sort kind of annex or extension...

No. What you are describing is illegal.

An extension to another persons house is an extension to their house. It can. I way be separated.

What you want to build will not comply with planning or building regulations. We are not set up in ireland to deal with this tiny house stuff.

nhunter100

Nikkla wrote:

I was wondering if maybe someone already did it or have more information about it. We believe it could be an option to climb the property ladder without applying for an insane mortgage... and to be honest we've seen loads of pretty cool small homes that we'd be delighted to live in.

You need to have a look at the planning laws. There is a minimum requirement regarding site size due to a septic system. Of course in an urban area where you connect to the main sewer it's different. Tbh what you are suggesting is fairy tale stuff sorry if you find that rude but it's the truth.

Angry bird

Councils have minimum floor area requirements for houses, usually, there are national standards for apartments.

BryanF

Some posts merged.

OP
no mater how many threads you start, the answer is still the same, you need planning for 'a tiny house'

Edit: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print#sched2

nhunter100

Nikkla wrote:

I am talking about a 400 sq ft house, so it'd be pretty small. From my understanding, as long as is less than 400 you won't need plan and permission so that's why a plot in an agriculture land might work without any problems. But to be honest I don't really now if is actually that simple. On the other hand, we probably are gonna have issues when it comes to connecting the house to a source of power and water, but again I am not 100% sure.

I don't know where you arrived at the idea you don't need planing but who ever is advising you is clueless. As for connecting to water that will cost you at least 2 thousand and similar to for electricity.

sword1

Even if it was a tipi you would need planning

Nikkla

Thanks guys for your help,

I was just wondering as someone mentioned that a house of those dimensions might be classed in the category of class 3 exempted development. But after I had a look at the Exempted Development, it says specifically that the building shouldn't be used for human habitation, therefore you could build it but not living in it, so I just thought maybe there is a way around, that's it. But apparently, there is not.

PhoenixParker

Your best bet is probably to talk to the people in cloughjordan, not necessarily to build there but to get advice from people who build unusual houses and work with planners to do so. They do also have sites so may be able to facilitate your project.

They also have contact with architects who might be interested in this sort of project. There may be some workaround you can do where a group of tiny homes is treated together for planning and a single accessible bedroom & bathroom suffices etc.

Mellor

kceire wrote: »

[l
What you want to build will not comply with planning or building regulations. We are not set up in ireland to deal with this tiny house stuff.

Which planning and building regulations are not possible to comply with?
I'm talking about the dwelling, not the the building without permission part.
No reason why small homes couldn't work in Ireland. The councils idea of a home in rural Ireland is increasingly at odds with progressive design imo.

Angry bird wrote: »

Councils have minimum floor area requirements for houses, usually, there are national standards for apartments.

Recommendations are not the same as regulations.
From a planning point of view there is a huge difference between setting standards for developer driven housing and one off housing.

Mellor

PhoenixParker wrote: »

They also have contact with architects who might be interested in this sort of project. There may be some workaround you can do where a group of tiny homes is treated together for planning and a single accessible bedroom & bathroom suffices etc.

That's really bad advice, and not going to be legal.

PhoenixParker

Mellor wrote: »

That's really bad advice, and not going to be legal.

The only advice given is to talk to an architect, I'm mystified by how advising somebody who wishes to build a house to talk to an architect could ever be considered bad advice.

As for the bit about a workaround, it's a suggestion to look at things differently and explore options not advice with regard to any specific action which could be legal or illegal.

There are often exemptions and interesting options available when you look at the rules in total and change your design accordingly. Halting sites are essentially a collection of tiny houses yet they can be granted planning permission. Glamping and mobile home sites are similar albeit for shorter term use. Internationally many tiny houses are designed to be at least notionally mobile to fit under planning exceptions.

OP needs to work with people who understand the system if they want to get around it.

BryanF

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The only advice given is to talk to an architect, I'm mystified by how advising somebody who wishes to build a house to talk to an architect could ever be considered bad advice.

As for the bit about a workaround, it's a suggestion to look at things differently and explore options not advice with regard to any specific action which could be legal or illegal.

There are often exemptions and interesting options available when you look at the rules in total and change your design accordingly. Halting sites are essentially a collection of tiny houses yet they can be granted planning permission. Glamping and mobile home sites are similar albeit for shorter term use. Internationally many tiny houses are designed to be at least notionally mobile to fit under planning exceptions.

OP needs to work with people who understand the system if they want to get around it.

There is no 'work around'

There are architects/arch techs posting in this thread
And also a planner
And also a building control Eng.

Halting sites?? Glamping?? Mystified at the advice above is an understatement

A tiny house used as a dwelling - needs planning.

Mellor

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The only advice given is to talk to an architect, I'm mystified by how advising somebody who wishes to build a house to talk to an architect could ever be considered bad advice.

Ok, it wasn't advice. It was a suggestion.
A terrible suggestion.

Is that better?

Halting sites are essentially a collection of tiny houses yet they can be granted planning permission.

So are housing estates. And apartment buildings.

The key part being they are granted planning permission.
The OP was suggestion building without planning, a bad idea. If they are going to build a 40sqm dwelling, then it needs planning. To achieve that it needs to comply with planning and building regulations. Not a "workaround"

Reati

Nikkla wrote: »

Thanks guys for your help,

I was just wondering as someone mentioned that a house of those dimensions might be classed in the category of class 3 exempted development. But after I had a look at the Exempted Development, it says specifically that the building shouldn't be used for human habitation, therefore you could build it but not living in it, so I just thought maybe there is a way around, that's it. But apparently, there is not.

You remind me of a person in work who, determined to be different and not have have a mortgage, did something similar and ended up paying the costs of mortgage plus half more in the long run.

The system isn't there to be played or got around and planners I know have a fairly zero tolerance attitude to people who think they can get one over and throw in a retention request.

Building a house is one of the costlier things in life. Why not just do it right instead of looking for the cheap or half arsed way do to it.

Gumbo

Mellor wrote: »

Which planning and building regulations are not possible to comply with?
I'm talking about the dwelling, not the the building without permission part.
No reason why small homes couldn't work in Ireland. The councils idea of a home in rural Ireland is increasingly at odds with progressive design imo.



Recommendations are not the same as regulations.
From a planning point of view there is a huge difference between setting standards for developer driven housing and one off housing.

I get the impression the OP wants a tiny house to keep costs down.
Minimum room sizes as per the county development plan (although I do accept that these are guides).

Depending on location, can the house comply with Part M and Part L of the Building Regulations.

Reati

kceire wrote: »

I get the impression the OP wants a tiny house to keep costs down.
Minimum room sizes as per the county development plan (although I do accept that these are guides).

Depending on location, can the house comply with Part M and Part L of the Building Regulations.

The OP has a fantasy that if they built a small house they somehow don't need to apply for planning, which in the grand scheme of building a house is far from the most expensive or costly part of it.

Mellor

kceire wrote: »

I get the impression the OP wants a tiny house to keep costs down.
Minimum room sizes as per the county development plan (although I do accept these are guides).

Depending on location, can the house comply with Part M and Part L of the Building Regulations.

I don't think the OPs situation is particularly well researched or planned. But as for a tiny house in general;

A hotel room can comply with part M. And a small house generally will have a lower energy requirement

Nikkla

Thanks all for your post.

It was only a question, an idea that someone mentioned to me and I wanted to know if there is anyone who knew a bit more about it, or maybe other idea like what they're doing in cloughjordan.

Unfortunately is not possible for me to apply for a mortgage at the moment, that's why I'm thinking on other options. Trying to think out of the box, not trying to do anything illegal or scam the system.

On the other hand, why not wanting to pay an insane amount of money for your house is wrong, or is not the right way to do it?

Mellor

Nikkla wrote: »

On the other hand, why not wanting to pay an insane amount of money for your house is wrong, or is not the right way to do it?

It's not wrong, but but the way you were going about it was wrong.
If you can't apply for a mortgage right now, how whereyou going to fund the project. The costs to build even a small home would be much more than a typical mortgage deposit.

Chisler2

Nikkla wrote: »

Thanks all for your post.

It was only a question, an idea that someone mentioned to me and I wanted to know if there is anyone who knew a bit more about it, or maybe other idea like what they're doing in cloughjordan.

Unfortunately is not possible for me to apply for a mortgage at the moment, that's why I'm thinking on other options. Trying to think out of the box, not trying to do anything illegal or scam the system.

On the other hand, why not wanting to pay an insane amount of money for your house is wrong, or is not the right way to do it?

Nikkla - whilst you and your partner need to take on board the points raised by some other posters here your desire for a small home which fits your needs is to be applauded. Cloughjordan is just one of the projects exploring alternative design and life-style ideas. An Irish architect and designer, Dominic Stevens, designed and self-built a home for €25,000 a decade ago (see here http://www.irishvernacular.com/) and put the plans on the web for free access. You could also have a look at the work of conservation architect Feile Butler and her partner Colin Ritchie (here http://www.saveourplanetawards.com/feile-butler-and-colin-ritchie-mud-and-wood/) who also run workshops in sustainable small-scale building, including planning, building regs etc.

Most importantly - don't give up the dream and don't be cowed down.

Mellor

Chisler2 wrote: »

An Irish architect and designer, Dominic Stevens, designed and self-built a home for €25,000 a decade ago (see here http://www.irishvernacular.com/) and put the plans on the web for free access.

http://www.irishvernacular.com
(Rogue bracket above is causing a dead link)

And for the sake of clarity, it was €25k for the building materials, plumbing, electrical.
The services connection was another €10k.
All up site costs, planning permission, professional fees, carpentry and labour would all be potential costs on top. Potentially a lot.

sydthebeat

Nikkla wrote: »

On the other hand, why not wanting to pay an insane amount of money for your house is wrong, or is not the right way to do it?

its not wrong... but you must realise that once built it becomes a commodity capable of being resold, and therefore must be of sale-able standard.

these standards are, strictly, the Building regulations, and they are incredibly onerous. Construction methods such as cavity wall, timber frame etc have all been developed to become an economical means to achieve compliance.
If you want to build your home by some non standard, non skilled means then you must prove that it will comply with building regulations and that is where you might find things get very expensive.

Can i point you towards this guy
http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/huff-puff-and-build-your-house-1.729217

your going to put in the same full time effort and do something similar,if you want similar results.

Groggers

Hi. Just wondering if you have had any joy in kick-starting your Tiny home project? I don't know if you're aware but a Tiny house pilot project has been given the go ahead for Naas, Co Kildare. Councils and housing bodies are going to have to start looking into alternative housing projects to allow for people that cannot afford/don't want to be tied to a massive mortgage or for those who wish to downsize and live a simpler life within their means. This pilot project could be the start of something positive in Ireland. I've been following the tiny house movement in America, Canada and Australia and it is fantastic, although it may not appeal to everyone. You do need to work with local authorities and planning, otherwise it is illegal. And also depends on what services you will require. I don't think it is recognised here legally in Ireland to live off grid self sufficiently (solar panels and composting toilet etc). But I do think with this new alternative tiny housing project given the green light, that it may start opening up for new planning regulations.

Best of luck!

Hoagy

Groggers wrote: »

I don't know if you're aware but a Tiny house pilot project has been given the go ahead for Naas, Co Kildare.

Not quite a go ahead yet anyway.

"Naas could be considered for a Tiny House Development pilot project for social housing.

A motion was tabled by Cllr Sorcha O'Niell at this month's area meeting, which was held on Tuesday, October 17 last, requesting that Naas be considered for a pilot project for sustainable tiny house development and that this pilot project be permitted for inclusion in the Naas Local Area Plan review due to commence in October 2017.

The meeting heard that there are no proposals under consideration by the Housing Section to develop social housing using a Tiny House model.

It was noted that the council was not aware of any initiatives from the Department of Housing to support Tiny House Development for social housing."

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/community-news/277152/tiny-houses-considered-for-naas.html