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Safer cycling, we can make a difference /MPDL thread

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/mar/09/too-close-campaign-cyclists-safe-driver-overtaking-police

    This is about approach being adopted in UK. It says Cycling UK plan to crowd-fund to bulk-buy the £800 mats used by West Midlands Police to teach re MPD for other police forces. It says because only 2% of population cycles most drivers have no idea what a safe passing distance is, a point that has been made by posters here too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    The Taxi drivers vehemently oppose the minimum passing distance proposal! (well i'm so surprised!!)


    So they won't be able to cut past cyclists with a wing mirrors length at high speed in the bus lane whilst beeping the horn at the same time now eh?

    taxi-fares-set-to-increase-if-new-law-making-it-an-offence-for-drivers-to-pass-close-to-a-cyclist-are-brought-in/

    I really find this claim offensive. No vehicle/motorist whether private or public has the right to pass somebody at close distance, now or in the future. Its just apalling that some taxi driver feel they can do this when rushing to pick up a fare. Time is precious, life is cheap. I had a taxi deliberately drive at me and it's going to court...seriously, what right has any motorist got use their vehicle as a weapon, but especially one that is operated as a public service vehicle.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Me..I slammed on the brakes, she backed off and never came near again
    brake testing someone is an idiotic thing to do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,780 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    I really find this claim offensive. No vehicle/motorist whether private or public has the right to pass somebody at close distance, now or in the future. Its just apalling that some taxi driver feel they can do this when rushing to pick up a fare. Time is precious, life is cheap. I had a taxi deliberately drive at me and it's going to court...seriously, what right has any motorist got use their vehicle as a weapon, but especially one that is operated as a public service vehicle.

    Yeah same here. Last week, I had some numb nuts undertake me, then cut in front of me, almost taking me off the bike. All the time while on a mobile phone. When I pointed this out to him a the lights, his reaction was "fcuk off you w@nker". Obviously after disagreeing, we went our separate ways. Some utter scumbags in taxis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Stupid enough they can't get their head around 1.5m apparently...

    If they want to know how much 1.5m is, they should get a five-foot-tall woman to stand and hold her arms outstretched. From fingertip to opposite fingertip, that's 1.5m.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,387 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    Chuchote wrote: »
    If they want to know how much 1.5m is, they should get a five-foot-tall woman to stand and hold her arms outstretched. From fingertip to opposite fingertip, that's 1.5m.
    Any volunteers?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Any volunteers?

    Sure-o!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Big shout out to the lads from SCC this morning who all went single file to allow cars to pass going through Camolin.The biggest offenders of not moving in a bit are casual cyclists. I posted before of one guy nearly meeting his maker in front of me on the N11 just outside Enniscorthy as he hugged the lines along the hard shoulder and his wheel caught a damaged cats eye and threw him out into the road as we passed him.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Alot of cyclists do not move in intentionally because in our assessment, an overtake would put us in danger. Moving in or going to single file can often be mistaken for someone waving you through and lead to dangerous overtakes. Some don't do it for the simple reason, it is not their place to imply to you whether it is safe or not, that is for the overtaking vehicle to assess, if they cannot then they should not overtake.

    if you listen to club riders on a spin, they will always call out when traffic is coming up from behind so that they can be as accommodating as possible without risking themselves. In a car, this is often missed and mistaken for a crowd of cyclists doing nothing and ignoring the situation. I have in all my years with several different clubs, never been on a spin where this has not happened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,665 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    zerks wrote: »
    Big shout out to the lads from SCC this morning who all went single file to allow cars to pass going through Camolin.The biggest offenders of not moving in a bit are casual cyclists. I posted before of one guy nearly meeting his maker in front of me on the N11 just outside Enniscorthy as he hugged the lines along the hard shoulder and his wheel caught a damaged cats eye and threw him out into the road as we passed him.
    Actually proving the point of why you shouldn't cycle right in at the kerb. Hard shoulders are normally in a poor condition and full of debris.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Actually proving the point of why you shouldn't cycle right in at the kerb. Hard shoulders are normally in a poor condition and full of debris.

    The hard shoulder along there is in great nick,I cycle along it as do hundreds more along with runners who use it,he was just being an idiot keeping as far out as he dared and almost paid for it big time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    zerks wrote: »
    along with runners who use it
    So hard to think of any reason why cyclists wouldn't use it...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    So hard to think of any reason why cyclists wouldn't use it...

    It's an odd one but there's never a problem and they tend to use it at different times, speak to any cyclist who travels between Enniscorthy and Wexford and you'll find they have zero problems with the hard shoulder. Runners who use it are alone or there are 2 per group at most, usually marathon runners building up the miles while training,quite easy to pass when on a bike,none of the competition for space you see in Dublin,Cork etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    zerks wrote: »
    The hard shoulder along there is in great nick,I cycle along it as do hundreds more along with runners who use it, he was just being an idiot keeping as far out as he dared and almost paid for it big time.

    There are a lot of assumptions built into what you say there. There are many hard shoulders that I won't use because: they turn into exit or left-turning roads and at those points you now have to take the lane when motorists least expect and they might not be willing to make space for you; the hard shoulder just stops, leaving you in that same situation of having to move into the lane; they are in terrible condition; Irish people think that driving in the hard shoulder is a kindness to people who want to drive faster than them so they just motor along in the hard shoulder to be "nice"; I want the hard shoulder to be a space I can bail into if someone behind decides that driving over me is preferable to waiting for an opportunity to overtake safely; etc., etc.

    Where I don't already know the road I'm wary of the hard shoulder for the same reasons. If you were behind me and assumed I was choosing to be an idiot, you'd be wrong - there are exceptions, but I would bet that the number of people who take a road position in such a situation just to be belligerent are in the (tiny) minority, the vast majority are doing what they think is safest for them with the least impact on other traffic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    zerks wrote: »
    speak to any cyclist who travels between Enniscorthy and Wexford and you'll find they have zero problems with the hard shoulder.
    zerks wrote: »
    I posted before of one guy nearly meeting his maker in front of me on the N11 just outside Enniscorthy as he hugged the lines along the hard shoulder and his wheel caught a damaged cats eye and threw him out into the road as we passed him.
    Has your account been hacked? It seems that two different people are posting contradictory opinions from one account.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    I was reminded of this initiative recently when I had two close overtakes in a matter of a couple of days.

    The first was a motorist who cut a bend in the road by driving through the cycle lane and passing about half a metre from me. He got caught in traffic a littler further, predictably. His initial reaction was denial, followed by "but I didn't actually hit you, did I?", followed eventually by a grudging apology, followed by indignation that I expressed scepticism at the sincerity of his apology given the "conversation" to that point. In short, he saw nothing wrong in what he had done.

    The second was a motorist using the bus lane as an undertaking lane. He accelerated past me as he tried to find a gap in traffic to pull into. That was close, I could have touched his car with my elbow. He too got caught in traffic. His reaction was just as dismissive but with added aggression. He flicked me the finger as he laughed. I called the Garda Trafficwatch number (tel: 1890 205805) and reported him. Later the same day I got a call from a local garda who said he'd pursue it and asked me if I wanted to take the guy to court if it came to that. I didn't, I just wanted the driver to be reminded that there are consequence for driving like a sociopath.

    I'm not sure that a new law is what is needed to tackle such behaviour. Whatever happens, new law or not, it's worth remembering that there are options available today that you can use, Trafficwatch being one. I haven't always been happy with the outcome from contacting Trafficwatch, but a few times it worked exactly as I would have hoped, so I always consider it worth a try.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    doozerie wrote: »
    I was reminded of this initiative recently when I had two close overtakes in a matter of a couple of days.

    Only 2 in 2 days... Fairly low innings there! ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,665 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    doozerie wrote: »
    I'm not sure that a new law is what is needed to tackle such behaviour. Whatever happens, new law or not, it's worth remembering that there are options available today that you can use, Trafficwatch being one. I haven't always been happy with the outcome from contacting Trafficwatch, but a few times it worked exactly as I would have hoped, so I always consider it worth a try.
    Yeah, but would traffic watch have worked just for the close pass? They were bang to rights on the bus lane violation, which would be easier to prove.

    My anecdotal continues to be, after the weekend spin, is that I feel like I was given more room/ had less close passes than normal. Punctured on the way to the group spin (so missed it), so no idea whether that was also the case for those buggers insisting on riding two abreast...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    The best thing for passing distance is actually darkness. Light yourself up like a lighthouse and drivers give you a good 2m +. Not quite as effective for the morning commute though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    doozerie wrote: »
    I was reminded of this initiative recently when I had two close overtakes in a matter of a couple of days.

    The first was a motorist who cut a bend in the road by driving through the cycle lane and passing about half a metre from me. He got caught in traffic a littler further, predictably. His initial reaction was denial, followed by "but I didn't actually hit you, did I?", followed eventually by a grudging apology, followed by indignation that I expressed scepticism at the sincerity of his apology given the "conversation" to that point. In short, he saw nothing wrong in what he had done.

    The second was a motorist using the bus lane as an undertaking lane. He accelerated past me as he tried to find a gap in traffic to pull into. That was close, I could have touched his car with my elbow. He too got caught in traffic. His reaction was just as dismissive but with added aggression. He flicked me the finger as he laughed. I called the Garda Trafficwatch number (tel: 1890 205805) and reported him. Later the same day I got a call from a local garda who said he'd pursue it and asked me if I wanted to take the guy to court if it came to that. I didn't, I just wanted the driver to be reminded that there are consequence for driving like a sociopath.

    I'm not sure that a new law is what is needed to tackle such behaviour. Whatever happens, new law or not, it's worth remembering that there are options available today that you can use, Trafficwatch being one. I haven't always been happy with the outcome from contacting Trafficwatch, but a few times it worked exactly as I would have hoped, so I always consider it worth a try.

    This is the bit that, IMO, a change of law would start to change. Of course he could be dismissive. He had, under the current reg's done nothing 'wrong'. He hadn't touched you or directly caused an accident so you complaining was just that, complaining.

    Bring in a law and you then have the law on your side. Will it stop that person from doing the same, probably not, but the vast amount of people will need to consider if they want to possible break the law (and penalty points etc) to squeeze past.

    Most people stop at red lights, not because they fear getting caught (for statistically the changes of a cop being there is minimal) but they know if something were to happen they would they held at fault as they broke the law. It will be the same on this.

    Will in make a big difference, I doubt it, but if it makes even 1 car give me more room rather than 'going' for a gap that doesn't exist then it is worth it.

    I see no negative to a law like this, except for a possible time delay to motorists. But since motorist seem more than content to sit in rush hour traffic, time does not seem to be the deciding factor.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Has your account been hacked? It seems that two different people are posting contradictory opinions from one account.

    What do you mean? He cycled along the cats eyes beside traffic that was moving at 100kph or faster rather than along the part of the hard shoulder that was clear of ANY obstacles and that was utterly stupid. Isn't the first thing you learn when going out into the world self preservation? If a lion is in a cage you stay outside of it,you don't sit on the edge.
    If he'd been killed we would have had a thread here mourning his passing but not a word about how his stupidity led to his demise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Actually proving the point of why you shouldn't cycle right in at the kerb. Hard shoulders are normally in a poor condition and full of debris.

    How did that prove the point,he was on the absolute outside edge riding along the broken yellow line as near to traffic as he could be.As I said,I and many people I know cycle along that road and nobody does anything like that,are you justifying his stupidity? "Oh let's blame the state of the road" even through you are unfamiliar with it.
    Since when has the mantra parents drummed into kids to "keep in and watch out for cars" turned into "you own the road, ride where you like along it"? It's give and take folks,don't ride out where you might come a cropper just to be the big man and motorists just allow a bit of room and some time to pass.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    If you were overtaking properly, how much space did you give him. His own actions aside, is there a reason you did not give him more space. Maybe he had just come out because he could see an issue that you could not (it does happen). I have had plenty of people tell me how great some surfaces are for cycling and they use them all the time, whereas I find them dreadful and cycle out on the road for my own safety. Opinions are subjective, whether the guy was being a d1ck or a big man, I can imagine it was not a personal slight on you and maybe if you take it that way, driving may not be the mode of transport most suited to you.

    He was at the yellow line, that is not as near to traffic as he could be, if he wanted that, he would have road on the actual roadway. He rode close to the line, presumably in his mind, the safest place to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    CramCycle wrote: »
    If you were overtaking properly, how much space did you give him. His own actions aside, is there a reason you did not give him more space. Maybe he had just come out because he could see an issue that you could not (it does happen). I have had plenty of people tell me how great some surfaces are for cycling and they use them all the time, whereas I find them dreadful and cycle out on the road for my own safety. Opinions are subjective, whether the guy was being a d1ck or a big man, I can imagine it was not a personal slight on you and maybe if you take it that way, driving may not be the mode of transport most suited to you.

    He was at the yellow line, that is not as near to traffic as he could be, if he wanted that, he would have road on the actual roadway. He rode close to the line, presumably in his mind, the safest place to be.

    I moved out and luckily I did,he clipped a cats eye and ended up being flung out into the road,had I been in a HGV or even not expecting the worst by seeing where he was riding things could have been very nasty.The 1.5 rule would never have saved him. I had said to myself "what the fook is this fella at cycling along the yellow line"? I kept out as far as I could,it's a wide road.Was I to slam on and have the car behind me smash into me all because one eejit thought it sensible to play Russian roulette with his life? Even if he kept in a foot or so he'd have been grand,he didn't need to hug the kerb or anything just don't put yourself in harms way and then blame somebody else is my point.As I said before,I cycle along there too and the last place I'd be is hugging the yellow line.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,780 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    zerks wrote: »
    I moved out and luckily I did,he clipped a cats eye and ended up being flung out into the road,had I been in a HGV or even not expecting the worst by seeing where he was riding things could have been very nasty.The 1.5 rule would never have saved him. I had said to myself "what the fook is this fella at cycling along the yellow line"? I kept out as far as I could,it's a wide road.Was I to slam on and have the car behind me smash into me all because one eejit thought it sensible to play Russian roulette with his life? Even if he kept in a foot or so he'd have been grand,he didn't need to hug the kerb or anything just don't put yourself in harms way and then blame somebody else is my point.As I said before,I cycle along there too and the last place I'd be is hugging the yellow line.

    There seems to be a bit of hyperbola going on to accentuate this story. So the guy was cycling along the yellow lines - which is legal by the way, and we don't know if he was avoiding some glass or something else - and he's "flung out" by hitting a cats eye.

    Can we establish some facts:-

    So, did he come off his bike completely, landing in front of you and causing you to swerve around him? Or did he take a bit of a wobble - which would be a bit more usual?

    Assuming this didn't happen right at the second you came upon top of him, and giving the general good sight lines on that road - there's plenty of time to see a cyclist, keep out an bit and avoid him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    I didn't want to turn this into a driver v cyclist argument, I do both and can see both points of view.My point was if you are cycling, walking,whatever just make sure you are as safe as possible on the road and don't put yourself in harms way deliberately.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,780 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    zerks wrote: »
    I didn't want to turn this into a driver v cyclist argument, I do both and can see both points of view.My point was if you are cycling, walking,whatever just make sure you are as safe as possible on the road and don't put yourself in harms way deliberately.

    And if you're driving and see a cyclist on the yellow lines, just pull out and pass him without making too much of a drama about it. You never know, he could be flung out unexpectedly. Drive so as to "Expect the unexpected".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    And if you're driving and see a cyclist on the yellow lines, just pull out and pass him without making too much of a drama about it. You never know, he could be flung out unexpectedly. Drive so as to "Expect the unexpected".

    I did,my point all along was it was utterly stupid what he was at,would you cycle along cats eyes? I seriously doubt it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,780 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    zerks wrote: »
    I did,my point all along was it was utterly stupid what he was at,

    why is it stupid? He's cycling legally and without further facts we are speculating why he was doing so. As I said, glass / debris in the hard shoulder could be a reason.
    zerks wrote: »
    would you cycle along cats eyes? I seriously doubt it.

    I will cycle where it's safe to do so, and yes it may entail from time to time along cats eyes.

    I really don't see why drivers can't just accept why cyclists do this, rather than calling some one who does so stupid or idiotic.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    why is it stupid? He's cycling legally and without further facts we are speculating why he was doing so. As I said, glass / debris in the hard shoulder could be a reason.



    I will cycle where it's safe to do so, and yes it may entail from time to time along cats eyes.

    I really don't see why drivers can't just accept why cyclists do this, rather than calling some one who does so stupid or idiotic.

    Sure I'll drive to work shortly in the middle of the road in case there's something near the road edge I don't like:rolleyes:,the blind defence of stupid behaviour in this forum is mid boggling at times.
    I'm out and I'll leave you guys in your echo chamber.


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