Poll: Should drivers be fined for driving too close to cyclists?

Sleeper12

As the title says Now you have your chance to vote on this in today's Journal

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-fine-for-drivers-cycling-3252087-Feb2017/

Personally I'd forget about a fine but make the motorist cycle a bike around the city for half an hour.

Tenzor07

Straight to the Psychotic cesspit comments section on the Journal! :eek:

Sleeper12

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Straight to the Psychotic cesspit comments section on the Journal! :eek:

Right now only 34% of voters think motorists should be fined. I'm a little shocked it's so low. Don't cycle myself but I recognize the importance of giving space to the more vulnerable road users. Funny thing is most motorists will give ample room to huge trucks & lorries but not cyclists.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Lots of laws and no enforcement make Ireland something something.

You could introduce the death penalty for driving too close to cyclists and nothing would change.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I don't see a poll.. But IMO 'NO'.

No point as it won't be enforced and so won't be a deterrent.

And in my experience there's a sizable majority of cyclists who put themselves in danger but to the casual eye it would look like the driver was to blame, ie cyclists filtering with disregard to pedestrians, cyclists and motorized vehicles around them. Dismounting pavements etc ~ the whole thing would be a clusterfook to enforce fairly.

Just my two cents.

Moflojo

NO BUT YEAH BUT NO BUT ONLY IF CYCLISTS GET PENALTY POINTS FOR CYCLING ON THE FOOTPATH AND THEY SHOULD HAVE LICENSE PLATES AND INSURANCE AND ROAD TAX AND HELMETS AND HI VIS AND WINDSCREEN WIPERS AND THEY'RE TAKING OVER THE WHOLE ROAD. And I say this as a motorist and a cyclist...

Wanderer78

Moflojo wrote:

NO BUT YEAH BUT NO BUT ONLY IF CYCLISTS GET PENALTY POINTS FOR CYCLING ON THE FOOTPATH AND THEY SHOULD HAVE LICENSE PLATES AND INSURANCE AND ROAD TAX AND HELMETS AND HI VIS AND WINDSCREEN WIPERS AND THEY'RE TAKING OVER THE WHOLE ROAD. And I say this as a motorist and a cyclist...

You forgot the nct as well!

Right2Write

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Personally I'd forget about a fine but make the motorist cycle a bike around the city for half an hour.

This and/ or take them out of the car and drive past them at 80kph, skimming by. I've always felt that every motorist should be obliged to walk/ cycle every year to remind them of reality.

That said, this idea of penalty points is just more Nanny State stuff. The first and only thing a cyclist or walker needs to know is how to survive. You can have all the laws you want, but it's up to the individual to keep their wits about them.

Chuchote

Don't forget

• "…and they should have number plates so they're identifiable" (like all the motorists fined for using their smartphones while driving, yeah)
• "…and they should have to pay road tax" (presumably when fume-emitting motors are added to their bicycles)
• "…and they should have to pay insurance" (and I'll happily pay for the fleets of extra civil servants and gardaí to administer this)

…and "cyclist vigilantes", and "equality on the roads" (between 2- to -40-ton steel murder machines at killer speeds and 50kg cyclists on two skinny wheels), and "hi-viz" and "mandatory helmets" and…

dolallyoh

Loads of places in Dublin where the cycle lane is just a white dotted stripe inside a normal car lane making it physically impossible for the two not to overlap.

And of course you then have places like Braemor road where there is a superb brand new cycle lane which is completely ignored by many cyclists.

I'd be in favour of license plates for cyclists.

Edit to add - we have to be grateful for cyclists - if they were all in cars we would be in big trouble.

Chuchote

I haven't cycled on Braemor Road for a few months, but last time I was there the cycle lane had a broken surface, making it uncyclable.

Have you costed out the number plates nonsense? Do you realise that they've been tried and abandoned as useless in several countries?

dolallyoh

Chuchote wrote: »

I haven't cycled on Braemor Road for a few months, but last time I was there the cycle lane had a broken surface, making it uncyclable.

Have you costed out the number plates nonsense? Do you realise that they've been tried and abandoned as useless in several countries?

Just need to come up with a better design. Braemor road was totally redesigned.

https://goo.gl/maps/yD2YphFryCK2

Tenzor07

dolallyoh wrote: »

I'd be in favour of license plates for cyclists

Where do you suggest this licence plate could be placed, on a cyclists back side?

dolallyoh

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Where do you suggest this licence plate could be placed, on a cyclists back side?

That sounds good to me, nice idea cheers.

Chuchote

dolallyoh wrote: »

Just need to come up with a better design. Braemor road was totally redesigned.

https://goo.gl/maps/yD2YphFryCK2

That's 2014. I've cycled on it more recently, and it was nasty.

Chuchote

dolallyoh wrote: »

I'd be in favour of license plates for cyclists.

How many bicycles are there in Ireland? Half a million? A million? Ten million?

Would you be in favour of paying for the licence plates, the civil servants to administer the registration of every bicycle, and the extra garda jobs provided to police this, plus the gardaí diverted from crime, and the extra court staff, prison places, etc for those wild men who broke the new law? Gosh, it would be a nice little levy on your tax! I can see the Department rubbing its hands at the thought.

Sleeper12

Kylen Obedient Klutz wrote:

I don't see a poll.. But IMO 'NO'.

The pole is in the link on the first post. The journal is doing the pole today. I just thought some of the board cyclists might want to have a vote

meeeeh

I actually don't know why not. It's penalizing dangerous driving likre speeding, that's not nanny state. If they are making changes mandatory lights during the day should be brought in too.

dolallyoh

Chuchote wrote: »

How many bicycles are there in Ireland? Half a million? A million? Ten million?

Would you be in favour of paying for the licence plates, the civil servants to administer the registration of every bicycle, and the extra garda jobs provided to police this, plus the gardaí diverted from crime, and the extra court staff, prison places, etc for those wild men who broke the new law? Gosh, it would be a nice little levy on your tax! I can see the Department rubbing its hands at the thought.

You sound rattled.

magicbastarder

ah here, you can do better than that.

fliball123

Sleeper12 wrote: »

As the title says Now you have your chance to vote on this in today's Journal

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-fine-for-drivers-cycling-3252087-Feb2017/

Personally I'd forget about a fine but make the motorist cycle a bike around the city for half an hour.

No lets make cyclist pay insurance and tax then they can have use of the road like motorists. nearly every incident with a cyclist is due to the gombien cyclist

Chuchote

fliball123 wrote: »

No lets make cyclist pay insurance and tax then they can have use of the road like motorists. nearly every incident with a cyclist is due to the gombien cyclist

Didn't take long!

Moflojo

fliball123 wrote: »

No lets make cyclist pay insurance and tax then they can have use of the road like motorists. nearly every incident with a cyclist is due to the gombien cyclist

Go away. Over there somewhere. Go. Drive there if you like, you've obviously paid for the right.

groovyg

dolallyoh wrote: »

L

And of course you then have places like Braemor road where there is a superb brand new cycle lane which is completely ignored by many cyclists.

That new cycling lane makes a superb parking spot for the residents who have no space in their driveway when they have visitors. Even if this goes through I can't really see it being enforced. Far more serious offences like drink driving, driving while on the mobile are not taken seriously here.

I would like minimum over taking distances.

Legal measures like strict liability are much needed also.

Simply stated, the measure puts the burden of care on the larger road user for road safety purposes.

amcalester

fliball123 wrote: »

No lets make cyclist pay insurance and tax then they can have use of the road like motorists. nearly every incident with a cyclist is due to the gombien cyclist

I've been in 4 collisions with cars.

1) Car pulled out of side road on my left onto Main Road and I went over the bonnet.
2) While moving up the inside of traffic a car turns into a driveway without indicating, I ditch. No impact with the car, so not sure this is really a collision.
3) Same as number 1
4) Car hit me from behind while I was on a roundabout.

So according to you they were all my fault? I'll give you 1 was maybe partly my fault but you can't nearly all incident is the fault of the cyclist.

Captain Havoc

This thread is about drivers cycling too close to cyclists not license plates for cyclists which has been discussed in-depth previously. I recommend that any new posters to this forum familiarise themselves with the charter or I will ban then instantly.

mp31

Seems to be working well in England according to this http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/5516.html

"Speaking at the time of the launch of Operation Close Pass, PC Mark Hodson, West Midlands Police traffic officer and cyclist, said: "As a police force we must do our upmost to protect vulnerable road users and show that anyone who puts them in danger through poor driving will be dealt with"

It seems to be catching - http://road.cc/content/news/215826-close-pass-policing-could-be-rolled-out-16-forces-yours-one

Kaisr Sose

Kylen Obedient Klutz wrote: »

I don't see a poll.. But IMO 'NO'.

No point as it won't be enforced and so won't be a deterrent.

And in my experience there's a sizable majority of cyclists who put themselves in danger but to the casual eye it would look like the driver was to blame, ie cyclists filtering with disregard to pedestrians, cyclists and motorized vehicles around them. Dismounting pavements etc ~ the whole thing would be a clusterfook to enforce fairly.

Just my two cents.

You can't enforce anything without a law that defines an offence ...the current "must pass within a reasonable /safe distance" is a joke. What's that distance in law? It's nothing in law.

How can you put the blame on cyclists when a vehicle comes from behind and passes close, no effort made to make it safe? That's the point of the law, not the examples you are pointing out.

Sleeper12

fliball123 wrote:

No lets make cyclist pay insurance and tax then they can have use of the road like motorists. nearly every incident with a cyclist is due to the gombien cyclist

I wouldn't know how to respond to this.
It doesn't take long for these threads to become us against them.

onmebike

I haven't read The Journal in a very long time because of the comments section. Some percentage are professional trolls, but the comments generally left me feeling sad for society.

I just voted on this anyway and the results are, so far:

Should people be penalised for driving too close to cyclists?
Yes: 2634 - 35%
No: 4318 - 58%
IDK: 368 - 5%

So, according to this, the indication is that 58% of respondents think that it's OK or acceptable to drive too close to a cyclist.

Time to leave The Journal again.

onmebike

onmebike wrote: »

I haven't read The Journal in a very long time because of the comments section. Some percentage are professional trolls, but the comments generally left me feeling sad for society.

I just voted on this anyway and the results are, so far:


So, according to this, the indication is that 58% of respondents think that it's OK or acceptable to drive too close to a cyclist.

Time to leave The Journal again.

The comments section seems to be stacked with George Hook clones.

the_pen_turner

I'm 100 percent infavor of this if it works both ways.
Has a cyclist got to give me the same room as I have to give them. I hope so.

fliball123

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I wouldn't know how to respond to this.
It doesn't take long for these threads to become us against them.

The opening post set the terms for this..cyclists in this country have no repercussions no matter how good, bad or ugly they are. They have no training they have to fulfil in order to use the road and they have no one to track them if they are guilty of being at fault and can flaunt the law due to no accountability.

In my experience they are the worst users of the road. I have had one incident with a cyclist who was all set to sue me due to me simply stopping at a light on a cross road. Now I did stop quickly due to the light going from orange to red and knowing I would of been blocking the cars crossing..this cylcist hit into a van that was parallel to me and then smacked into my mirror nearly taking it completely off..He tumbled and limped to the side of the road..I pulled in above asked if he was ok..He got annoyed said I should not of stopped.. I pointed out that the rules of the road are at red lights you should stop and you should give the vehicle in front of you enough space to allow you to stop..This gob****e tried to go through the red light by overtaking me but hit the van and was trying to say it was my fault. This is where the problem is even if the cyclist is at fault he can still sue. I simply pointed up to the traffic cam and said..bring it on pal as the cam will show all i did was stop and it was his fault..That was 2 years ago and funnily enough I never got a call from a solicitor, yet my broken mirror I had to pay the damage..How the hell is that far. I am all for making sure cyclists are safe but they must pay their own way to use the roads and they should have some kind of training (for their own safety), insurance (for incidents where they are at fault) and tax (as they use the road so they should pay for it as well)

timmy_mallet

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I'm 100 percent infavor  of this if it works both ways.
Has a cyclist got to give me the same room as I have to give them. I hope so.

Why 'hope'?
How much space would you give another car when overtaking?

Tenzor07

fliball123 wrote: »

tax (as they use the road so they should pay for it as well)

Nice story dude, but you lost the debate right there! ^^^

Tenzor07

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Has a cyclist got to give me the same room as I have to give them. I hope so.

Doesn't make sense?

timmy_mallet

Tenzor07 wrote: »

fliball123 wrote: »

tax (as they use the road so they should pay for it as well)

Nice story dude, but you lost the debate right there! ^^^

I always wonder about that argument... What if you don't own a car, do proponents of this believe that all non-car-owning car passengers should pay 'road tax' too? Or does the car owner/driver's road tax cover it? What happens if you regularly don't carry anyone else in your car? Surely you're paying more tax than someone who ferries around 2/3 people... And what about children, are they exempt?

fliball123

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Nice story dude, but you lost the debate right there! ^^^

How so?

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

The opening post set the terms for this..cyclists in this country have no repercussions no matter how good, bad or ugly they are. They have no training they have to fulfil in order to use the road and they have no one to track them if they are guilty of being at fault and can flaunt the law due to no accountability.

In my experience they are the worst users of the road. I have had one incident with a cyclist who was all set to sue me due to me simply stopping at a light on a cross road. Now I did stop quickly due to the light going from orange to red and knowing I would of been blocking the cars crossing..this cylcist hit into a van that was parallel to me and then smacked into my mirror nearly taking it completely off..He tumbled and limped to the side of the road..I pulled in above asked if he was ok..He got annoyed said I should not of stopped.. I pointed out that the rules of the road are at red lights you should stop and you should give the vehicle in front of you enough space to allow you to stop..This gob****e tried to go through the red light by overtaking me but hit the van and was trying to say it was my fault. This is where the problem is even if the cyclist is at fault he can still sue. I simply pointed up to the traffic cam and said..bring it on pal as the cam will show all i did was stop and it was his fault..That was 2 years ago and funnily enough I never got a call from a solicitor, yet my broken mirror I had to pay the damage..How the hell is that far. I am all for making sure cyclists are safe but they must pay their own way to use the roads and they should have some kind of training (for their own safety), insurance (for incidents where they are at fault) and tax (as they use the road so they should pay for it as well)

Anyone can threaten to sue, it doesn't mean they will be successful. If you were so concerned about your mirror at the time why didn't you report it? Just because he is riding a bike doesn't mean he isn't liable for any damage he causes due to negligence.

Alek

they are the worst users of the road. I have had one incident

Generalize much?

ThisRegard

fliball123 wrote: »

How so?

Road tax for using the road?

the_pen_turner

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Doesn't make sense?

What doesn't make sense
If I overtake a cyclist or car etc I will give plenty of room.
When a cyclist overtake s me do they have to give me the same room.

ThisRegard

the_pen_turner wrote: »

When a cyclist overtake s me do they have to give me the same room.

You're lacking in any sort of logic.

07Lapierre

No...there should not be a poll to determine if Drivers should be fined for driving too close to cyclists.

fliball123

07Lapierre wrote: »

No...there should not be a poll to determine if Drivers should be fined for driving too close to cyclists.

Hows about a fine for cyclist who drive to close to cars and breaking red lights?

the_pen_turner

ThisRegard wrote: »

You're lacking in any sort of logic.

How so

07Lapierre

fliball123 wrote: »

How so?

Here: http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/bring-back-the-road-fund/

timmy_mallet

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Doesn't make sense?

What doesn't make sense
If I overtake a cyclist or  car etc I will give plenty of room.
When a cyclist overtake s me do they have to give me the same room.

No, they don't.

07Lapierre

fliball123 wrote: »

Hows about a fine for cyclist who drive to close to cars and breaking red lights?

No...shouldn't be a Poll on that either!

timmy_mallet

fliball123 wrote: »

07Lapierre wrote: »

No...there should not be a poll to determine if Drivers should be fined for driving too close to cyclists.

Hows about a fine for cyclist who drive to close to cars and breaking red lights?

Fine for breaking lights already exists, cycling to close to a car isn't a offence, and shouldn't be one either.