National reserve 2017

Sugarbowl

I see on Agriland that the National Reserve is opening again this year. Anyone know how it works? I gather you get entitlements. Does everyone get equal amounts or is it based on what you already have? Are these entitlements for you to keep for good or is it just a yearly thing? Cheers

joeyboy12345

Didnt go for it the last time as was advised by my teagasc advisor it wouldnt be worth it unless i was taking over the farm. Goin for it this time as i am taking over the farm this year so will work in well!i suppose there'l be a big land grab again this spring as a response to this news!?

Sugarbowl

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Didnt go for it the last time as was advised by my teagasc advisor it wouldnt be worth it unless i was taking over the farm. Goin for it this time as i am taking over the farm this year so will work in well!i suppose there'l be a big land grab again this spring as a response to this news!?

Do you have to be taking over the farm, or does a farm partnership qualify do you know?

6480

I took over the home farm in 2013 ,I have the green cert and I am intending to lease some land with out entitlements this year
Can I get entitlements on the leased land , I didn't apply to the national reserve before

satstheway

If you applied and received the last time can you go again?

6480

satstheway wrote: »

If you applied and received the last time can you go again?

From what I have heard over the years the national reserve u have only one go

Sugarbowl

Do you keep the entitlements that you are allocated for future BPS payments or is it just a once off thing?

Sligoronan

Would I be correct in saying that the last time the payout was around €250 a ha & now it's down to €185

kevthegaff

Only 5 mill available compared to 25 last time round iirc

Limestone Cowboy

Sligoronan wrote: »

Would I be correct in saying that the last time the payout was around €250 a ha & now it's down to €185

Not exactly. It's 185 minus the greening which will bring up up to the same thing pretty much.

Limestone Cowboy

kevthegaff wrote: »

Only 5 mill available compared to 25 last time round iirc

There'll hardly be as much demand for it either though kev, you'd imagine most people would have got their cut out of it the last time around.

Sillycave

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Not exactly. It's 185 minus the greening which will bring up up to the same thing pretty much.

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

There'll hardly be as much demand for it either though kev, you'd imagine most people would have got their cut out of it the last time around.

I'd say you could be surprised with the level of uptake, i'd expect it to be high enough

If you already had an existing SFP (i.e. parents) does that 185 (assumed) get added to the existing or is it one or the other?

Dickie10

hi im just wondering what i could do with this national reserve , like what advantage would be for me. ? i qualify but didnt take it up the last time because i was told it wasnt worth my whil. i have ownership of the farm since april 2015. i got the toung farmer 25% top up which was worth around 3500 to me. would the national reserve help me to take land for grazing ?i currently dont take any

Sugarbowl

Lads when it boils down to it, what does the National Reserve do for farmers? Bit of a novice here and find info is lacking online. Any knowledge welcome

Limestone Cowboy

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Lads when it boils down to it, what does the National Reserve do for farmers? Bit of a novice here and find info is lacking online. Any knowledge welcome

If you have land with no entitlements (basic payments) or low value entitlements you can get them from the National reserve up to the national average which is €184/ha if you meet the criteria.

Dickie10

and what if i have land with enttitlements ?

Limestone Cowboy

Dickie10 wrote: »

and what if i have land with enttitlements ?

If they are below the national average you can get them topped up. If not it's no good to you.

speckled_park

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Lads when it boils down to it, what does the National Reserve do for farmers? Bit of a novice here and find info is lacking online. Any knowledge welcome

Bps is paid on the number of entitlements you have, you need 1 ha to claim 1 entitlement ' value. Some farmers for various reasons may not have fully drawn down entitlements on their land years ago. There is an opportunity now for young farmers to claim entitlements on land that previously has never been claimed for entitlements, which is the hard part as this 'naked land' is hard to find, and land that was rented out years ago has a good chance of previously being claimed on for entitlements. Entitlements are attached to the active farmer as opposed to the land owner unless they are the same person.

barnaman

speckled_park wrote: »

Bps is paid on the number of entitlements you have, you need 1 ha to claim 1 entitlement ' value. Some farmers for various reasons may not have fully drawn down entitlements on their land years ago. There is an opportunity now for young farmers to claim entitlements on land that previously has never been claimed for entitlements, which is the hard part as this 'naked land' is hard to find, and land that was rented out years ago has a good chance of previously being claimed on for entitlements. Entitlements are attached to the active farmer as opposed to the land owner unless they are the same person.

Thats not quite right. If 100 ha rented on conacre to farmer Murphy he has 100 entitlements. I take land back I have no entitlements and can claim on land as naked land. Up to farmer Murphy to find land elsewhere or lose his entitlements.

Sugarbowl

Cheers guys. So is it a once off payment on low value entitlements or say does it bring the value up for a few years?

speckled_park

barnaman wrote: »

Thats not quite right. If 100 ha rented on conacre to farmer Murphy he has 100 entitlements. I take land back I have no entitlements and can claim on land as naked land. Up to farmer Murphy to find land elsewhere or lose his entitlements.

Ah right I thought naked land was only land never claimed.

speckled_park

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Cheers guys. So is it a once off payment on low value entitlements or say does it bring the value up for a few years?

I say it would bring low value ones up to a certain amount and that is the fixed amount for the next few years

zetor 4911

speckled_park wrote: »

Ah right I thought naked land was only land never claimed.

The Dept will have to clarify this issue. I would agree with you that land used to establish entitlements can't then be used by another farmer to get entitlements from the national reserve.

Sugarbowl

satstheway wrote: »

If you applied and received the last time can you go again?

If you qualified last time, was it just a once off top-up you got?

arctictree

I was over the off farm income threshold for new entrants for the 2015 scheme but should be under it for the 2017 scheme. Does anyone know if I will qualify this time? I am a bit worried about this part:

"S/he must have commenced the present agricultural activity in the 2015 calendar year or any later year;"

joeyboy12345

arctictree wrote:

I was over the off farm income threshold for new entrants for the 2015 scheme but s.hould be under it for the 2017 scheme. Does anyone know if I will qualify this time? I am a bit worried about this part:

I think it says you must be under 40k in EITHER 2015 or 2016 so depends on what was on ur p60 in 15 or 16. Theres no way of proving what u may earn in 2017 until you get the p60 in jan 18 id imagine, thats why 17 cant be taken into account

rangler1

I'm trying to lease out some very good land here with entitlements and farmers are looking for land without entitlements, so they can drop poor land and rent good land and use their own entitlements on it, so the market for good land without entitlements is hot at the moment.
A neighbour paid 280/acre last week.
Even if you get 250/ha from the NR, you'll be competing with 500/ha if you want good land

Sparkles2012

I was reading the Farmers Journal yesterday and they mentioned the Educational Requirements might change this year for the National Reserve, they mentioned the possibility of having to have your Green Cert before the BPS in May 2017. Anyone hear this from anywhere else? That would be me ruled out if it was the case wont have my Cert until later this year.

Sugarbowl

Sparkles2012 wrote: »

I was reading the Farmers Journal yesterday and they mentioned the Educational Requirements might change this year for the National Reserve, they mentioned the possibility of having to have your Green Cert before the BPS in May 2017. Anyone hear this from anywhere else? That would be me ruled out if it was the case wont have my Cert until later this year.

You should be fine... it says "or at least have enrolled in such a course"

Dickie10

so would i need to find land to rent with no entitlements attached to get these entitilement on that land?

rangler1

Dickie10 wrote: »

so would i need to find land to rent with no entitlements attached to get these entitilement on that land?

I'd hope they wouldn't give them out unless you have the land.

Sparkles2012

Sugarbowl wrote: »

You should be fine... it says "or at least have enrolled in such a course"

I must read the article again, on the front section of the paper is where I read about needing the course finished whereas in the back part of the Journal they just mentioned the old requirements. I guess I just have to wait and see when they publish the guidelines in March.

zetor 4911

Dickie10 wrote: »

so would i need to find land to rent with no entitlements attached to get these entitilement on that land?

I would not recommend to rent any land till the terms and conditions are published. What land will be eligible for new entitlements is the important issue and that will have to be clarified. Land without entitlements and land not used to establish entitlements are two very different things.

sonnybill

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

I think it says you must be under 40k in EITHER 2015 or 2016 so depends on what was on ur p60 in 15 or 16. Theres no way of proving what u may earn in 2017 until you get the p60 in jan 18 id imagine, thats why 17 cant be taken into account

Gross or after tax?

sea12

sonnybill wrote: »

Gross or after tax?

Gross I think

joeyboy12345

sea12 wrote:

Gross I think

Gross

duffysfarm

i only got to read a few lines of the journal but to me it look as if some one under 40 who had previously applied to the national reserve could reapply as long as their income was under the threshold etc. anyone else see this?

Sugarbowl

duffysfarm wrote: »

i only got to read a few lines of the journal but to me it look as if some one under 40 who had previously applied to the national reserve could reapply as long as their income was under the threshold etc. anyone else see this?

I thought I read somewhere you had to have set up in either 2016/2017. Not 100% sure though.

Sugarbowl

Anyone know can you apply for National Reserve as a young Farmer without adding in new land to the existing holding? As in join your father's herd number but not lease any new land?

FarmerDougal

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Anyone know can you apply for National Reserve as a young Farmer without adding in new land to the existing holding? As in join your father's herd number but not lease any new land?

As long as its naked land or lower than national average

MayoAreMagic

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

I think it says you must be under 40k in EITHER 2015 or 2016 so depends on what was on ur p60 in 15 or 16. Theres no way of proving what u may earn in 2017 until you get the p60 in jan 18 id imagine, thats why 17 cant be taken into account

Does the threshold apply to Young Farmers also? My understanding is you can be a Young Farmer and earn above the threshold, but you need to be below the threshold to gain access to the National Reserve, regardless of whether you are a Young Farmer or not... Does anyone know if that is correct? Or do Young Farmers have access regardless of what they earn off-farm?

patrickn

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Anyone know can you apply for National Reserve as a young Farmer without adding in new land to the existing holding? As in join your father's herd number but not lease any new land?

You must become a joint Herd Owner with your father. This involves you submitting a Form ER 1.1 to the D.V.O. Then to qualify for the National Reserve you must fulfill the green cert requirements and have a gross income of less than 40 K. in 2015 or 2016 between the two of you. If applying on your father's existing holding the only benefit in the National Reserve is if your farther's Basic Payment Entitlements are less that the National Average of 250 euro each.

The Young Farmers Scheme which amounted to about 63 euro per entitlement in the earlier scheme has no income limit and is paid on the first 50 HA.to applicants who fulfill the education requirements and are under 40 years of age.

joeyboy12345

MayoAreMagic wrote:

Does the threshold apply to Young Farmers also? My understanding is you can be a Young Farmer and earn above the threshold, but you need to be below the threshold to gain access to the National Reserve, regardless of whether you are a Young Farmer or not... Does anyone know if that is correct? Or do Young Farmers have access regardless of what they earn off-farm?

I personally think that the 40k threshold applys young farmer or not

patrickn

40 K limit does not apply to the Young Farmers top up.

Damo810

patrickn wrote: »

You must become a joint Herd Owner with your father. This involves you submitting a Form ER 1.1 to the D.V.O. Then to qualify for the National Reserve you must fulfill the green cert requirements and have a gross income of less than 40 K. in 2015 or 2016 between the two of you. If applying on your father's existing holding the only benefit in the National Reserve is if your farther's Basic Payment Entitlements are less that the National Average of 250 euro each.

The Young Farmers Scheme which amounted to about 63 euro per entitlement in the earlier scheme has no income limit and is paid on the first 50 HA.to applicants who fulfill the education requirements and are under 40 years of age.

So if I went into partnership this year with the uncle all current entitlements would rise to €250? And then claim YFS too?

Would this only apply on current entitlements, or what if I took on new land on lease?

patrickn

Damo810 wrote: »

So if I went into partnership this year with the uncle all current entitlements would rise to €250? And then claim YFS too?

Would this only apply on current entitlements, or what if I took on new land on lease?

If the rules are as per 2015 scheme the increase to 250 euro and Young Farmer top up will apply to current entitlements and any new land declared by you on the Basic Payment form for 2017.

MayoAreMagic

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

I personally think that the 40k threshold applys young farmer or not

That would be my understanding also. The YFS and a Young Farmer being eligible for the NR are two different things, i.e. you can be a Young Farmer, yet still not be eligible for the NR due to your earnings.

But the literature is not written in the clearest manner to be honest. Has anyone been over the 40k limit and gotten access to the National Reserve on the back of being in the Young Farmer Scheme alone?

Sparkles2012

Damo810 wrote: »

So if I went into partnership this year with the uncle all current entitlements would rise to €250? And then claim YFS too?

Would this only apply on current entitlements, or what if I took on new land on lease?[/QUOTE

Have you the Green Cert Completed?

MayoAreMagic

patrickn wrote: »

40 K limit does not apply to the Young Farmers top up.

So you are saying you can top up your existing entitlements off the YFS alone, but you cant get new entitlements on land that doesn't have any?

Sparkles2012

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So you are saying you can top up your existing entitlements off the YFS alone, but you cant get new entitlements on land that doesn't have any?

Yes the YFS allows you to top up your existing entitlements.
For the NR then you can apply to them for new entitlements on land that dosent have any.

Sparkles2012

Has everyone hoping to apply for the National Reserve this year there Green Cert completed?