Cattle on my lawn

Czhornet

Hi,

I am coming to my wits end with my neighbours 1 yr old heifers coming in to my lawn every other day now. He had 10 heifers in a shed up to a month ago, he then let them out and instead put a few sheep in the shed. The animals are now starved, as they have eaten what little grass there is around the place, he dosen't seem to be feeding them and now they are jumping (poorly maintained) fences, getting out on the the road and coming into my lawn. I have said it to him on numerous occasions to feed/fence them in, but to put it politely he is a "fcukin egit", and should not be allowed to own animals of any kind.

What legal steps can I take, or who can I call to put the sh1ts up him and to get him to cop on? (guards, Dept of Ag, RSA)

Peregrinus

Czhornet wrote: »

Hi,

I am coming to my wits end with my neighbours 1 yr old heifers coming in to my lawn every other day now. He had 10 heifers in a shed up to a month ago, he then let them out and instead put a few sheep in the shed. The animals are now starved, as they have eaten what little grass there is around the place, he dosen't seem to be feeding them and now they are jumping (poorly maintained) fences, getting out on the the road and coming into my lawn. I have said it to him on numerous occasions to feed/fence them in, but to put it politely he is a "fcukin egit", and should not be allowed to own animals of any kind.

What legal steps can I take, or who can I call to put the sh1ts up him and to get him to cop on? (guards, Dept of Ag, RSA)

Well, if they're coming in from the road you can keep your gate closed. That might be the most practical way of dealing with the problem.

If they do come in you can require him to come and remove them. You can also sue him for any damage that the cattle have done to your property.

There is no point calling the guards. This is not their concern. No crime has been committed. You could try a solicitors letter, though.

Hagimalone

You should call the guards because if they are on the road they are a danger to road users.

conditioned games

First step to take is call the Guards and they will visit him. If after that he still is starving his animals then contact animal welfare.

Keepgrowing

Close your road gate would be no 1 in my book

duffysfarm

look at all the time and money the farmer is saving you by keeping your grass neat and tidy!

_Brian

Not all of us have road gates, I know I don't but still wouldn't expect to be finding cattle constantly in on my lawn, that is shifting the blame to the victim here..

Firstly I'd be onto the guards and out it, the cattle are causing a public danger and then are most likely causing damage to your property.

Then get onto your solicitor and have a bill sent to him for repairs to your lawn, if he has insurance it should cover this but either way he's liable for the repairs. Like many bad farmers its only when he's faced with it costing him money that he'll take action, oh, make sure your own solicitors fee is included in the bill as there is no reason this should be costing you anything.

I think the guards/solicitor are your only avenues open, dept ag in theory shouldn't be happy about his cattle roaming the countryside but in reality seem to care less.

patsy_mccabe

Cattle roaming the roads a serious concern and very likely to cause an accident.

whelan2

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Cattle roaming the roads a serious concern and very likely to cause an accident.

Only last night there was a crash here were a car hit a cow thatwas out on the road.

The Cuban

Depends on where the cattle are coming in from. If they are breaking through the boundary wall then you could have a situation where you were the one who was supposed to have erected a stock proof fence under the terms of the planning permission for the house. All new one off houses in the countryside now have this stipulation in the terms of planning or else in the terms of the sale of the site itself.

arctictree

Close your gate OP. Problem solved.

Kevwoody

OP you are wasting your time posting this in Farming & Forestry, as you can see by most of the replies, it's never the poor farmers fault!
Seriously though how can anyone say it's your fault for not closing your gate? That is absolute bullsh1t.
Report him straight away to the guards, then the animal welfare people.
I see the farmers above didn't even acknowledge the fact the animals have nothing to eat, but instead chose to berate you for not closing your gate!

whelan2

Kevwoody wrote: »

OP you are wasting your time posting this in Farming & Forestry, as you can see by most of the replies, it's never the poor farmers fault!
Seriously though how can anyone say it's your fault for not closing your gate? That is absolute bullsh1t.
Report him straight away to the guards, then the animal welfare people.
I see the farmers above didn't even acknowledge the fact the animals have nothing to eat, but instead chose to berate you for not closing your gate!

How does the op know they have nothing to eat, there could be a round feeder there. I wonder has the op actually said it to the farmer how annoyed he is and has he given him a deadline to fix the situation?

Kevwoody

whelan2 wrote: »

How does the w they have nothing to eat, there could be a round feeder there. I wonder has the op actually said it to the farmer how annoyed he is.

He said he did, on numerous occasions. And cattle don't just break out of a field for no reason.

HensVassal

I absolutely adore cows. They are among my favourite animals and if this bollocks is neglecting them then they should be taken from him and re-housed with a good farmer who will treat them like the pets that they are.....lots of grass and hay, plenty of space to roam. I'd speak to Gardai, solicitor AND the ISPCA

Peregrinus

Kevwoody wrote: »

OP you are wasting your time posting this in Farming & Forestry, as you can see by most of the replies, it's never the poor farmers fault!
Seriously though how can anyone say it's your fault for not closing your gate? That is absolute bullsh1t.
Report him straight away to the guards, then the animal welfare people.
I see the farmers above didn't even acknowledge the fact the animals have nothing to eat, but instead chose to berate you for not closing your gate!

Nobody has said it's not the farmer's fault; I have pointed out that the farmer is liable for any damage caused.

And nobody has "berated" the OP for not closing his gate. He has asked what he can do about this problem, and closing his gate is unquestionably the easiest and most effective thing he can do. Suggesting this is not "berating" him; it's answering the question he asked.

The OP can report the farmer to the guards if this will give him (or you) any satisfaction, but that won't do much to help address his problem. Having your cattle straying is not a crime.

Kevwoody

Peregrinus wrote: »

Nobody has said it's not the farmer's fault; I have pointed out that the farmer is liable for any damage caused.

And nobody has "berated" the OP for not closing his gate. He has asked what he can do about this problem, and closing his gate is unquestionably the easiest and most effective thing he can do.

The OP can report the farmer to the guards if this will give him (or you) any satisfaction, but that won't do much to help address his problem. Having your cattle straying is not a crime.

But allowing them to cause damage is

Peregrinus

Kevwoody wrote: »

But allowing them to cause damage is

No, it isn't.

This is a civil matter between the OP and the farmer. It doesn't concern the guards.

Kevwoody

Peregrinus wrote: »

No, it isn't.

This is a civil matter between the OP and the farmer. It doesn't concern the guards.

Well at the very least, I'd be informing the ISPCA.
And I'm pretty sure if the cattle are roaming the roads, it is indeed a matter for the Gardai.

Willfarman

No question that the farmer is wrong and does indeed sond like an eegit. He is liable for damage to property.

But in terms of practicalities the gates are the first and most practical way of saving you hassle because there's no winning here. The guards can't do anything but if they're a regular danger to road users then a word from them might encourage him to sell them or fence them.

The Cuban

Ye are all presuming the cattle are coming in the gate

Bass Reeves

I think there are a few people being unfair to the OP. He was quite clear that they are coming in from the public road. Maybe this farmer is not ajoining him or is across the road. However that is immaterial. It is a condition of you herd no that you have stock proof fences. It is bull about him closing his gate either I know loads of farmers that do not close the gate to there house at might.

On gate it is a bugbear of mine that lads that have houses in the country do not either have a gate you close, a white plastic chain, a cattle grid or even a bit of string or rope in front of there gate for you to close the opening of moving cattle. However the worst of the lot are lads that plant a lawn and have no wall or fence in front of it. It should be a planning requirement that you have a boundary fence in place between you and the road.

However that is not the issue here this bo!!ox of a farmer is in the wrong. It is very easy to keep you cattle in if they are breaking out even if your fence is damaged. Pigtails, reel fence and a battery fencer. It should be a requirement that all farmers have them just like a road boundary and a way of blocking a gate should be compulsory to houses in the country.

OP contact the guards and inform them about this farmers cattle on the public road. If an accident then happens his public liability will not cover him as guards will be aware that his fences are not stock proof. Mind you I would doubt that he has any. Photograph his roadside fence and let him see you doing it this could put the sh!t crossways in him as he will presume you are going to sue this might encourage him to repair his fences. Contact the county council as they have powers in this area as well. It is unlikely that the cruelty to animals will become involved unless animals are visibly in very poor condition. The local DVO ( district veterinary office,) may become involved if contacted. Finally you have the option of a solicitor's letter and to personally sue him but collecting from him may be a hard problem. The ideal solution which is not available to you is to pen a few of his heifers and have them impounded or carry them to the local pound however this can often be 50+ miles away.

Kevwoody

The Cuban wrote: »

Ye are all presuming the cattle are coming in the gate

The OP said "they are getting out on to the road and coming into my lawn".
So I presume it's not the OP fence they are jumping, but hey, shift the blame from the farmer if that sits better with you.

Czhornet

whelan2 wrote: »

How does the op know they have nothing to eat, there could be a round feeder there. I wonder has the op actually said it to the farmer how annoyed he is and has he given him a deadline to fix the situation?

I am a farmer too, there is no round feeder anywhere, i have checked. When they did come in to the lawn they never lifted their head, even when trying to hunt them out as they were too busy eating grass. They also break out from his land on to the road, as well as from the farmers land into a wooded area and out a gap on to the road which has big boulders blocking it.

Ok couple of points to clarify, yes the cattle are coming in my front gate. No I don't have a front gate yet, but soon. who fills all the holes in the lawn......me 10 animals x 4 legs = 40 holes every time they take a step, not to mind the creators they leave when they run!!! his last attempt was a half a bucket of gravel to fill the holes, he did about 5 and fecked off.....:mad:

emaherx

Kevwoody wrote: »

OP you are wasting your time posting this in Farming & Forestry, as you can see by most of the replies, it's never the poor farmers fault!
Seriously though how can anyone say it's your fault for not closing your gate? That is absolute bullsh1t.
Report him straight away to the guards, then the animal welfare people.
I see the farmers above didn't even acknowledge the fact the animals have nothing to eat, but instead chose to berate you for not closing your gate!

Wow, 2 people suggest closing the gate and all farmers here are attacking the OP!

But it has to be said "good fences make good neighbours".

I'm a farmer as are a few of the other posters above who in no way berated the Op. But you and the OP are right loose cattle are a problem and a danger to public safety. We have an issue here for the last 12 months with a farmer who lives in Donegal and is renting land in Meath. He comes to "check" his cattle about twice a week and they are on the road every other day, to make it worse we have a field next to his cattle and when they break out they graze on a green area in front of our cattle, so naturally the entire area has our numbers on speed dial to let us know that "our cattle" are on the road again :mad:. The worst thing is we have to investigate after each breakout in case our cattle are on the road and quite often put his cattle back where they belong as their owner won't be around for days.

And last year on a near by road, another farmer who would never have cattle loose, but on one unfortunate night had an animal involved in a fatal accident with a motor cyclist.

But back to the point, for property damage speak to the farmer in question, bill him for any damage and if he wont resolve the situation send him a solicitors letter. Report him to the Guards if you like, but as others have suggested they will most likely say its a "civil matter" until someone is actually hurt that is.

And closing the gates if you have them, is not the worst suggestion (not assigning blame of coarse )

lakill Farm

OP

Take some photos that are date stamped of the cattle on your property and damage. Send a copy of them to the farmer by registered post in the letter request the lawn and property and repairs to previous maintained condition by a date. give two weeks.

If its not carried out after that contact solicitor

I have had cattle break out, I try my best to keep them fenced in always with electric fence. Nut they are isolated break outs , not continuous


An aunt of mine, who is off a farm but is a civil servant, had an issue with a farmer back about 15 years ago. same thing was happening. It cost him over 5000 pound as she dug in her heels then and he had to employee landscapers to repair the lawn as she said he hadn't insurance to cover himself fixing the lawns. He arrives now yearly with a box of sweets and the cattle have broken in a few times and he fixed any lawn issues within a day or 2. everyone happy

ie . farmer needs to step up now, before it costs him multiples to repair the damage

parishsavings

Farmer is obliged to keep animals under control, doesn't have to be fenced in, he can herd them all day if he likes but must be under control

Bass Reeves

parishsavings wrote: »

Farmer is obliged to keep animals under control, doesn't have to be fenced in, he can herd them all day if he likes but must be under control

I think you are incorrect there. It is a condition of herd number that you have your boundary's fenced. This is not just to prevent cattle getting onto public roads but also to prevent the spread of disease in the case of cattle mixing. If you cattle are on a public road they must be under control with a person ahead and behind and warning traffic.

barnaman

Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013

Prohibition on farm animals straying.

8.—(1) A person who has in his or her possession or under his or her control a farm animal shall, having regard to the animal’s nature, type, species, breed, development and environment, take all reasonable measures to ensure that—

(a) the animal is unable to stray from the land or premises where it is kept, and
(b) all buildings, gates, fences, hedges, boundary walls and other structures used to contain the animal are constructed and maintained in a manner that minimises—
(i) the risk that the animal will stray,
(ii) the risk, or spread, of disease onto or from the land or premises on which the animal is kept, and
(iii) the risk that the animal will damage the flora and fauna of the surrounding environment where the animal is contained,
having regard to shared boundaries or commonage.
(2) A person shall not, without lawful excuse, damage or interfere with a building, gate, fence, hedge, boundary wall or other structure used to contain a farm animal.
(3) A person who fails to comply with subsection (1) or contravenes subsection (2) commits an offence.
(4) Where a person having possession or control of a farm animal fails to comply with subsection (1) and that person is not the owner of the farm animal, then the owner of the animal shall also have committed an offence under subsection (3), unless the owner shows that he or she took all reasonable steps to ensure that all necessary measures in the circumstances were taken to comply with subsection (1).

barnaman

As above post its a criminal offence so ring Guards if want. Practical advice ring the county council they are legally obliged to remove all stray animals to the pound. getting them to accept that might be an even bigger challenge than getting him to fence.

Czhornet

barnaman wrote: »

Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013

Prohibition on farm animals straying.

8.—(1) A person who has in his or her possession or under his or her control a farm animal shall, having regard to the animal’s nature, type, species, breed, development and environment, take all reasonable measures to ensure that—

(a) the animal is unable to stray from the land or premises where it is kept, and
(b) all buildings, gates, fences, hedges, boundary walls and other structures used to contain the animal are constructed and maintained in a manner that minimises—
(i) the risk that the animal will stray,
(ii) the risk, or spread, of disease onto or from the land or premises on which the animal is kept, and
(iii) the risk that the animal will damage the flora and fauna of the surrounding environment where the animal is contained,
having regard to shared boundaries or commonage.
(2) A person shall not, without lawful excuse, damage or interfere with a building, gate, fence, hedge, boundary wall or other structure used to contain a farm animal.
(3) A person who fails to comply with subsection (1) or contravenes subsection (2) commits an offence.
(4) Where a person having possession or control of a farm animal fails to comply with subsection (1) and that person is not the owner of the farm animal, then the owner of the animal shall also have committed an offence under subsection (3), unless the owner shows that he or she took all reasonable steps to ensure that all necessary measures in the circumstances were taken to comply with subsection (1).

Who exactly enforces this?

BTW, This is the kinda stuff I'm after, not "close a gate" answer

barnaman

The Gaurds its a criminal offence

barnaman

In reality what should/will happen is guards call out and tell him to cop on and stop it or they will prosecute. Also note reasonable measures so cattle occasionally breaking out where is a fence would not be in breach of this section.

Czhornet

barnaman wrote: »

In reality what should/will happen is guards call out and tell him to cop on and stop it or they will prosecute. Also note reasonable measures so cattle occasionally breaking out where is a fence would not be in breach of this section.

"Reasonable measures", hahahaha, that gave me a laugh, this lad can hardly close a gate properly, never mind own a sledge hammer or wire. Twice a week on the road and on my lawn, shows complete incompetence!!

croot

Czhornet wrote: »

Who exactly enforces this?

BTW, This is the kinda stuff I'm after, not "close a gate" answer

Your CoCo should have someone you looks after this.

I had an issue with "stray" horses a few years ago and rang both guards and CoCo. The council got them impounded. Make sure they know they are a danger ON the public road.

johndoe12ba

Just for curiosity:

I really wonder, what happens if somebody shoots cattle damaging his garden. Most probably, the farmers will not applaude as they do if a stray dog killing cattle is shot.

Mooooo

johndoe12ba wrote: »

Just for curiosity:

I really wonder, what happens if somebody shoots cattle damaging his garden. Most probably, the farmers will not applaude as they do if a stray dog killing cattle is shot.

It's legal to shoot a dog worrying or about to worry cattle. It's illegal to shoot cattle. Afaik only the army can do so if cattle are wild in an area

kerry cow

Could be dangerous cattle roaming around hungry they could lick old batteries or once I had a cow of my own knock over a rat bait box and eat all the barley bait .
It was her last supper

foxy farmer

johndoe12ba wrote: »

Just for curiosity:

I really wonder, what happens if somebody shoots cattle damaging his garden. Most probably, the farmers will not applaude as they do if a stray dog killing cattle is shot.

That person will have a visit from the Gardai and his gun will be confiscated and hopefully his firearms licence would be revoked. Anyone who resorts to that carry on isn't fit to be in possession of a gun.

MayoAreMagic

johndoe12ba wrote: »

Just for curiosity:

I really wonder, what happens if somebody shoots cattle damaging his garden. Most probably, the farmers will not applaude as they do if a stray dog killing cattle is shot.

Dogs are shot because they have instincts to hunt and have caused massive damage to other animals, and indeed livelihoods, in such scenarios in the past.

Going by your logic of cattle getting shot for damaging a garden, would mean that people could also shoot dogs that sh!t in the park... Nonsense in fairness...

No farmer wants to kill any animal for no reason.


Re the issue with the wandering cattle, just get them impounded.

Although I have to say, I would understand the thinking behind people who say close the gate - and it isn't anything to do with blaming the victim. It has already been established that this guy is an eejit. Which means this sort of thing is liable to happen again. Do you really want the hassle of having to deal with this guy over such things? Get a gate, close it, and put the feet up.

farmerwifelet

and a loud dog! Our dog kept cattle out of our garden. It is crap though that you have to deal with it. I wonder could you have a word with the local vet - they should be reporting cases where animals are being neglected/starved. A farm near here was destocked as the farmer was neglecting the animals. New vet arrived at practice and wasn't taking any crap from farmers.

Sligoronan

It is the home owners responsibility to have gates or entrance closed with cattle grid. Solicitor will advise you the same. You are responsible to maintain your entrance or deal with the consequences.

Sligoronan

STRAYING cattle led to a bill of £400 for a farmer after his beasts trampled over a neighbour’s lawns. However, sitting at Enniscorthy District Court last Friday, Judge William Earley held the owners of the garden to be 40 per cent responsible - because their fences were not in good enough repair.

djmc

johndoe12ba wrote: »

Just for curiosity:

I really wonder, what happens if somebody shoots cattle damaging his garden. Most probably, the farmers will not applaude as they do if a stray dog killing cattle is shot.

Ye must have some big fecking dogs around your place if one of them can kill cattle.
Around here it's as likely the cattle would kill the dog.

barnaman

Sligoronan wrote: »

It is the home owners responsibility to have gates or entrance closed with cattle grid. Solicitor will advise you the same. You are responsible to maintain your entrance or deal with the consequences.

Thats just wrong.

barnaman

Sligoronan wrote: »

STRAYING cattle led to a bill of £400 for a farmer after his beasts trampled over a neighbour’s lawns. However, sitting at Enniscorthy District Court last Friday, Judge William Earley held the owners of the garden to be 40 per cent responsible - because their fences were not in good enough repair.

That case is 17 years old and predates the 2013 Act. Also sounds like was a shared boundary fence that cattle strayed through.

Mooooo

djmc wrote: »

Ye must have some big fecking dogs around your place if one of them can kill cattle.
Around here it's as likely the cattle would kill the dog.

Dog chased a cow ended up upside down into a drain here, another cornered by two rotties and a German Shepherd with bite marks on face and neck, wouldn't have been long before she went as well

Czhornet

Sligoronan wrote: »

It is the home owners responsibility to have gates or entrance closed with cattle grid. Solicitor will advise you the same. You are responsible to maintain your entrance or deal with the consequences.

I shouldnt have to deal with someone else's inadequate fencing and poor farming methods. My site is secure apart from the front entrance gateway which i intend to close up as soon as possible. Next time I see the animals on the road i will be ringing the Guards!

um7y1h83ge06nx

There is a load of mis-information out there regarding this type of issue.

A few months back cattle went into my lawn and caused some damage, I couldn't say for sure whose cattle they were as I never saw them. If I was there when they went in I would have photographed them and have seen if I could get close enough to take pictures of their tags.

I was talking about it in work at the time and mentioning how it was lucky one didn't go through the fibreglass cover of my bio-cycle unit and wreck it. One of the women was convinced 100% that I would be liable to the farmer if anything happened his cattle on my property, there was no telling her.

I looked up the law at the time and it falls under "strict liability" for the farmer.

I don't have the legal links to hand but here's a good piece that explains it in layman's terms:

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/know-the-law-dont-let-your-stock-cost-you-in-court-30322795.html

arctictree

Some new houses on our road in the last decade. It used to be easy to run stock up the road but now its a nightmare as some of the new houses don't have gates and have taken down the ditches onto the road (for sightlines I assume). The older houses all have cattle gates. There's nearly always an 'incident' when we run stock now. Who's fault is this?

satstheway

I know of a house with fancy gardens which are open your the public. Cattle broke in and they kept them in until Farmer took them away as they live on a very busy road and they were worried about the safety of the users.

Cost the farmer best part of €30000