Property price register shows I paid more than my neighbours

MactheKnife90

Hi I am wondering how the property price register is compiled as I have made a very daunting discovery that has made me feel physically sick.

Basically I paid full asking price for a new build home earlier this month. I was having a look around on the net tonight and stumbled across the PPR and it says the house next door to me sold 10 days before for 38k less than the asking price.

Has anyone got any info on this as I feel I have been screwed big time although it doesnt make sense because all my phase has been secured with deposits and the next phase is almost finished and have gone up 5k in asking price.

One more point the PPR.ie give different figures than Property price register Ireland.

Thank you in advance

alias no.9

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Hi I am wondering how the property price register is compiled as I have made a very daunting discovery that has made me feel physically sick.

Basically I paid full asking price for a new build home earlier this month. I was having a look around on the net tonight and stumbled across the PPR and it says the house next door to me sold 10 days before for 38k less than the asking price.

Has anyone got any info on this as I feel I have been screwed big time although it doesnt make sense because all my phase has been secured with deposits and the next phase is almost finished and have gone up 5k in asking price.

One more point the PPR.ie give different figures than Property price register Ireland.

Thank you in advance

Is your house up yet? The PPR shows an ex VAT figure for new builds, could this explain the difference?

HeidiHeidi

New house prices are not inclusive of VAT on the property price register.

HeidiHeidi

Also, www.ppr.ie is a personnel recruitment site?

www.propertypriceregister.ie is the correct site.

MactheKnife90

alias no.9 wrote: »

Is your house up yet? The PPR shows an ex VAT figure for new builds, could this explain the difference?

Yes it says both houses are VAT exclusive and mine is listed at the full price I paid and the other at 38k cheaper

MactheKnife90

It is also listing the show house as 40k cheaper than what I paid and it was advertised as 15k more expensive than mine.
Surely they must be mistakes

newacc2015

The PPR is based on the amount the Revenue were told the house was sold for based on the stamp duty that was paid to them

Is that the only house that is listed below others?

MactheKnife90

newacc2015 wrote: »

The PPR is based on the amount the Revenue were told the house was sold for based on the stamp duty that was paid to them

Is that the only house that is listed below others?

Ok so if someone could pay less tax someway that could explain why their house is listed as cheaper. I know the house owners at 38k cheaper are business owners in the town.

Yes two other houses from the same phase. One listed as 25k cheaper and the other as 4k cheaper

MactheKnife90

So basically to put all this info together

My house A- asking price
Next house B (10 days prior)- 38k less
House C (6 weeks prior)- 25k less
House D (6 weeks prior)- 4k less
Show house E advertised 15k more sold- 40k less

Thank you everyone. Ill find it hard to sleep tonight.

benjamin d

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Hi I am wondering how the property price register is compiled as I have made a very daunting discovery that has made me feel physically sick.

Basically I paid full asking price for a new build home earlier this month. I was having a look around on the net tonight and stumbled across the PPR and it says the house next door to me sold 10 days before for 38k less than the asking price.

Has anyone got any info on this as I feel I have been screwed big time although it doesnt make sense because all my phase has been secured with deposits and the next phase is almost finished and have gone up 5k in asking price.

One more point the PPR.ie give different figures than Property price register Ireland.

Thank you in advance

If you judged the house worth what you paid for it then why does it matter that a neighbour bought cheaper?

MactheKnife90

benjamin d wrote: »

If you judged the house worth what you paid for it then why does it matter that a neighbour bought cheaper?

Because Im a FTB and not from the area so I feel maybe I was fooled here. Also I was lead to believe that these houses were in great demand. Which is fairly evident on site. They are continuing to build and sold someone a house almost 40k cheaper than mine 10 days prior.

<mod snip: leave the moderation to the mods please>

James 007

I bought my house in 2004, in 2009 the new neighbour 2 doors up from me paid over €250k less than what I paid, virtually for the same house, similar condition. Do you feel better now.

MactheKnife90

All I'm asking the forum is if its possible the figures are correct. All the houses are the exact same sold at almost the same time yet the prices displayed make no sense.

thierry14

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

It is also listing the show house as 40k cheaper than what I paid and it was advertised as 15k more expensive than mine.
Surely they must be mistakes

I wouldn't 100% trust those sites

My friend bought a fix upper for 110k, ppr had it up as 104k for some reason.

Try not to get overly worked up on the price you paid, if you paid cash I would be pissed, as that is the price you pay

If you got a mortgage, your probably paying 500k for a 250k house anyway when you include the interest over the term of 35 or so years

Most people go with their local bank like BOI and get screwed on rates.

Hopefully the people that bought cheaper than you went with their local bank and you were clever and went with a low interest rate like kbc and you will that 40k back

MactheKnife90

thierry14 wrote: »

I wouldn't 100% trust those sites

My friend bought a fix upper for 110k, ppr had it up as 104k for some reason.

Try not to get overly worked up on the price you paid, if you paid cash I would be pissed, as that is the price you pay

If you got a mortgage, your probably paying 500k for a 250k house anyway when you include the interest over the term of 35 or so years

Most people go with their local bank like BOI and get screwed on rates.

Hopefully the people that bought cheaper than you went with their local bank and you were clever and went with a low interest rate like kbc and you will that 40k back

Thank you very much for your answer. I just couldnt make sense of it. Im starting a new chapter in a new part of the world far from home. It wouldnt be nice to think that the very first thing I done I was mislead or someone saw me coming.

FYI I went with Ulster Bank as they had the lowest Fixed Rate along with KBC actually.

Mr McBoatface

Level of finish can affect prices too albeit not to the extent you're describing. I've known lads to get homes with only unplastered stud walls and they finished the homes themselves but they where working for the builder. Also the previous land owner could have negotiated a reduced price home for a child\relative as part of the sale of land. This happened in my old housing estate in Kildare.

Car99

Maybe a little bit of part payment in cash by the other buyers cut down the stamp duty due😆

thierry14

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Thank you very much for your answer. I just couldnt make sense of it. Im starting a new chapter in a new part of the world far from home. It wouldnt be nice to think that the very first thing I done I was mislead or someone saw me coming.

FYI I went with Ulster Bank as they had the lowest Fixed Rate along with KBC actually.

Good stuff that you got a good rate, that's where you save the money, not all this cash back ****.

Most people are so happy to even get a mortgage that the rate and terms comes second to it, hard to blame it too when it's so hard to get one these days.

For what it's worth, I find it extremely unlikely and I mean not a ****ing chance that someone bought an identical new build house as you for 38k less.

In this market where people are sleeping in ****ing cars and paying people to queue in line for new builds and then to take a 38k loss, not a hope.

Wouldn't believe it for a second.

You can go sleep with a clear mind

MactheKnife90

Car99 wrote: »

Maybe a little bit of part payment in cash by the other buyers cut down the stamp duty due😆

Thats what Im starting to think but seems like alot of cash to have lying around no?

Samuel T. Cogley

If you're happy with your home, feck it and move on. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it now other than sell and try and pass on the mark up.

MactheKnife90

thierry14 wrote: »

Good stuff that you got a good rate, that's where you save the money, not all this cash back ****.

Most people are so happy to even get a mortgage that the rate and terms comes second to it, hard to blame it too when it's so hard to get one these days.

For what it's worth, I find it extremely unlikely and I mean not a ****ing chance that someone bought an identical new build house as you for 38k less.

In this market where people are sleeping in ****ing cars and paying people to queue in line for new builds and then to take a 38k loss, not a hope.

Wouldn't believe it for a second.

You can go sleep with a clear mind

Cheers. Your after helping me silence ths pessimistic monkey on the other shoulder now. Ive been back and forth in my head all evening.

I suppose Im just a bit apprehensive. Its a big step for me and it took me a while to get here. Just trying to make sure everything is as it seems. The neighbours obviously had cash under the mattress, I didnt. Thats just the way the cookie crumbles.

Youve eased my mind thank you.

CIARAN_BOYLE

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Yes it says both houses are VAT exclusive and mine is listed at the full price I paid and the other at 38k cheaper

Well if yours is listed at the full price you paid it's listed wronglyrics someone put the price up wrong.

MactheKnife90

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Well if yours is listed at the full price you paid it's listed wronglyrics someone put the price up wrong.

Exactly there is no consistency with the prices or the two different sites.

CIARAN_BOYLE

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Exactly there is no consistency with the prices or the two different sites.

What two different sites?

There is only one site under discussion.

The property register. This should show a price 1000/1135 of what you paid because you bought a new house.

For example if you paid 360,000 it should show 317,000.

If the person is showing full price you paid someone made a silly error filling out the information.

Your neighbours should be showing as less than what you paid.

MactheKnife90

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

What two different sites?

There is only one site under discussion.

The property register. This should show a price 1000/1135 of what you paid because you bought a new house.

For example if you paid 360,000 it should show 317,000.

If the person is showing full price you paid someone made a silly error filling out the information.

Your neighbours should be showing as less than what you paid.

There's propertypriceregister.ie and propertypriceIreland.com

CIARAN_BOYLE

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

There's propertypriceregister.ie and propertypriceIreland.com

Can you link to the second site. It's not appearing for me. The former is the actual property price register.

MactheKnife90

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Can you link to the second site. It's not appearing for me. The former is the actual property price register.

http://propertypriceregisterireland.com

CIARAN_BOYLE

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

http://propertypriceregisterireland.com

That website adds the VAT back on newbuilds

It's not an official website.

MactheKnife90

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

That website adds the VAT back on newbuilds

It's not an official website.

Ok you seem to know a bit about taxation etc. Would you agree with the others who have suggested that cash would be the main reason for the difference in the stamp duty?

CIARAN_BOYLE

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Ok you seem to know a bit about taxation etc. Would you agree with the others who have suggested that cash would be the main reason for the difference in the stamp duty?

No I would not not expect that illegal activity is a likely explanation.

I would expect that the most likely explanation is that someone typed the wrong figures in to the website.

You said earlier in the thread that propertypriceregister is showing your house at the full price you paid. Is this correct. It should not be showing the full price you paid.

The second most likely scenario is that your house is not the same as the neighbours. Either you are a 4 bed and they are a 3 bed or you have a garage or an extended kitchen and they don't.

The third most likely scenario for a difference in prices displayed is that you are comparing the actual register with the other website and not realising that one shows net and the other shows gross despite it being explained to you.

Hell it's more likely that the builders made a structural flaw in the building that left the house irreparably crooked (and so your neighbour got a discount) than the idea that your neighbours paid 40,000 cash to a developer to avoid stamp duty.

shenanagans

Maybe someone connected to the construction company bought the cheaper house. An long standing employee perhaps may get a discount.

April 73

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

No I would not not expect that illegal activity is a likely explanation.

I would expect that the most likely explanation is that someone typed the wrong figures in to the website.

You said earlier in the thread that propertypriceregister is showing your house at the full price you paid. Is this correct. It should not be showing the full price you paid.

The second most likely scenario is that your house is not the same as the neighbours. Either you are a 4 bed and they are a 3 bed or you have a garage or an extended kitchen and they don't.

The third most likely scenario for a difference in prices displayed is that you are comparing the actual register with the other website and not realising that one shows net and the other shows gross despite it being explained to you.

Hell it's more likely that the builders made a structural flaw in the building that left the house irreparably crooked (and so your neighbour got a discount) than the idea that your neighbours paid 40,000 cash to a developer to avoid stamp duty.

I agree with this. The most likely explanation for the largest discrepancy is because your house was registered at the full price including vat and the other house was registered as excluding vat. The Property Price Register relies on humans to be factually correct when inputting data - which doesn't always happen.
This is mostly likely the explanation if the difference equates to the vat.

In a new-build development there is often a mix of prices for what look like similar houses. A larger garden, a south facing garden, the end of a row, a bigger driveway - all of these things usually impact on prices. I have seen "builder's mates" or employees get the pick of sites on a new development but not discounts of ten of thousands of euro.

For what it's worth I don't think you were robbed. If you allow yourself to think that it will destroy your happiness about the new house. One house price had vat included & one didn't - the simplest explanation is often the right one.

davo10

Op it is quite possible you paid a lot more than your neighbours.

A developer may put houses on the market at €X but as interest builds and demand grows, the asking price can increase significantly.

Buying a house is a very personal choice and probably the largest and most important purchase of your lifetime. As such, you the buyer have to weigh up the asking price and consider whether it is worth it. Before you knew what you neighbour paid, you obviously thought the house is worth the price you offered, nothing has changed.

In a couple of months you can check the price register again, houses in the development may sell for more than you paid and you may think you got a good deal, albeit not quite as good a deal as your neighbours who bought before you.

Developers can ask any price they want, it's up to you whether you pay it.

BBMcQ

Did you apply VAT to the cheaper price and does it end up being the price you paid? End of discussion if so. Probably a clerical error.

mcneil

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

It wouldnt be nice to think that the very first thing I done I was mislead or someone saw me coming.

Welcome to the property market in ireland You where screwed and thats just the be all of it. It happens but when you come to sell your house, youll be wanting the same estate agent to screw the buyer of your house so you can get more. And again, its just the way it is im afraid.

bbari

As per PPR, my neighbour paid €43K less than mine but infact they didn't. Both are new build and we both bought at the same time. Its just the way either my solicitor / Revenue put the figures on the website.

e.g. My house value is entered as an including vat amount but it says VAT exclusive V Neighbours house value is entered correctly (excluding VAT).

The price differential is the VAT at 13.50%.

To see if the value is entered including/excluding vat - if the figure is a round figure i.e. €400,000 then its including VAT but figures like €352,422.89 would usually be an excluding vat amount (Not saying its 100% correct way but works for me). You can't trust the (Excluding VAT: Yes/No) on the PPR as its not correct for sure.

karenalot

The only website you should be looking at is https://www.propertypriceregister.ie/

Click into your house and under sale information you should see the words Vat Exclusive. This should always say 'Yes' for new builds. It should say 'No' for second hand houses.

It sounds like your house was submitted including Vat and the neighbours were not. As other posters have said the site is largely reliant on humans to input the data and time and time again I have seen figures and addresses entered incorrectly.

robindch

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

[...] the house next door to me sold 10 days before for 38k less than the asking price [...] Has anyone got any info on this as I feel I have been screwed big time

In February 2007, my flat was guided at EUR690k and for family-related reasons, had to hold off until September when it went onto the market, guiding EUR525k. Where it stayed for two years without attracting a single offer, so I took it off again. Back on in 2014 and eventually sold it for for EUR415k. Another flat in the same block, identical to mine save slightly less good nick, sold for EUR360k last year.

You picks your place, you does your sums, you pays your money and you live with it.

Addle

Is it not foolish to think that everyone in an estate pays the same amount for a house?
Some might get a discount for paying cash early on, or buying multiple properties or maybe in lieu of work done.
Some might pay more for a better position/garden.
Someone might just pay more because they don't negotiate as well/for as long.

AlanG

It is quite possible that while the sales went through within a few weeks of each other the other parties paid their deposits at a time when the market was lower. Also they may have had an agreement to buy a house elsewhere from the builder and agreed to transfer if it suited all parties.

76544567

OP.
Wlecome to the lesson that the price asked for is not always the price paid. Even with new builds, which a lot of people forget and dont even attempt to bargain. Though id say the opportunity to bargain is limited since the beginning of this year.

Gandalph

Could have been bought off plan or the developer could have been in some sort of agreement with the landowner which is quite common. I wouldn't look too much into it, if the demand was there as you said, the variance is too high. You're also positive that your house was constructed in the same phase? Just because they are right next to you or across the street doesn't always mean this is the case.

youcancallmeal

Car99 wrote: »

Maybe a little bit of part payment in cash by the other buyers cut down the stamp duty due😆

I don't get what you mean by this? Do you not just agree a price for the house and then pay stamp duty of 1% on the base price(-13%). Are you saying they would agree with the vendor that they would say the price is 40k less than asking if anyone asks but really they also paid that 40k in cash to lower the stamp duty. Is that even legal?

HeidiHeidi

youcancallmeal wrote: »

I don't get what you mean by this? Do you not just agree a price for the house and then pay stamp duty of 1% on the base price(-13%). Are you saying they would agree with the vendor that they would say the price is 40k less than asking if anyone asks but really they also paid that 40k in cash to lower the stamp duty. Is that even legal?

Not in the slightest.

But there was an awful lot of that being done back in the heady days when stamp duty went up to 9% :eek:

CIARAN_BOYLE

youcancallmeal wrote: »

I don't get what you mean by this? Do you not just agree a price for the house and then pay stamp duty of 1% on the base price(-13%). Are you saying they would agree with the vendor that they would say the price is 40k less than asking if anyone asks but really they also paid that 40k in cash to lower the stamp duty. Is that even legal?

Exactly. illegal. Hence my disbelief that it happened.

CruelCoin

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Because Im a FTB and not from the area so I feel maybe I was fooled here. Also I was lead to believe that these houses were in great demand. Which is fairly evident on site. They are continuing to build and sold someone a house almost 40k cheaper than mine 10 days prior.

Any private seller has the right to change prices how they see fit (sales excluding).

Looks to me you didn't haggle or investigate enough.

Sleeper12

MactheKnife90 wrote:

Thank you everyone. Ill find it hard to sleep tonight.

Sometimes the builder sells houses cheaper to business friends. Also very possible is an investor bought several houses at a discount.
Try put it out of your mind and enjoy your new home. There's nothing you can do about it now so don't be upsetting yourself.

ongarboy

Addle wrote: »

Is it not foolish to think that everyone in an estate pays the same amount for a house?
Some might get a discount for paying cash early on, or buying multiple properties or maybe in lieu of work done.
Some might pay more for a better position/garden.
Someone might just pay more because they don't negotiate as well/for as long.

Agreed! There is a launch of new homes across from me and identical houses and garden sizes are being priced differently based on whether they are south/east/west facing. Other variables like end of terrace, side access to back garden, bay windows or additional ensuite/storage can influence different prices in seemingly identical properties as well.

Sleeper12

youcancallmeal wrote:

I don't get what you mean by this? Do you not just agree a price for the house and then pay stamp duty of 1% on the base price(-13%). Are you saying they would agree with the vendor that they would say the price is 40k less than asking if anyone asks but really they also paid that 40k in cash to lower the stamp duty. Is that even legal?

It's called paying under the counter. I'm not suggesting that it happened here and it's very illegal.
Pay 40k cash or more. Buyer pays less vat and stamp duty & builder has cash that he didn't have to pay tax on

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote:

Exactly. illegal. Hence my disbelief that it happened.

It happens on a daily basis in some businesses. I'm in plumbing and almost every day someone will say what's your best cash price or can you do better on the price for cash. All my clients get vat receipts. It's very hard to compete with the black economy. It's killing Irelands recovery imo

blackwhite

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Yes it says both houses are VAT exclusive and mine is listed at the full price I paid and the other at 38k cheaper

Is yours listed at the full amount that you actually paid (i.e. which would include VAT)?

In that case it sounds like there's a mistake on the listing for your house.

MactheKnife90

blackwhite wrote: »

Is yours listed at the full amount that you actually paid (i.e. which would include VAT)?

In that case it sounds like there's a mistake on the listing for your house.

Yes it is I think I have put the issue to bed now. Some houses were listed inc Vat and others without. The '38k neighbour' paid 15k less and I suspect cash may or may not have been involved. I dont mind either way Im very happy with my house. Ill make the most of it.

Good luck to all in the big bad property market. It can be a daunting old place. I say that as someone who doesnt find much things daunting. Its a different story when large sums of money are involved though Ive learned that much ha

Thanks everyone for the help.