Difference between refined sugar and natural?

paralysed

What's the actual difference between natural sugar and refined sugar? When I googled it, I couldn't get a straight answer... all I could get was examples of refined sugar. I take it that pretty much any sugar that's not in fruit is refined? I did hear something about refined sugars being responsible for the breaking down collagen molecules in skin???

And what would be a good source of sugar for training, other than lucozade?

Thanks

bee06

Refined sugar is processed and natural sugar is not. Your body will process refined sugar quicker because it has less work to do to digest it and it will result in an insulin spike. Raw fruit also has fibre which makes digestion slower so it doesn't impact your sugar/insulin levels in the same way.

paralysed

bee06 wrote: »

Refined sugar is processed and natural sugar is not. Your body will process refined sugar quicker because it has less work to do to digest it and it will result in an insulin spike. Raw fruit also has fibre which makes digestion slower so it doesn't impact your sugar/insulin levels in the same way.

Oh that's the reason... interesting! So there's nothing bad about the refined sugar as such, more so the associated insulin spike.

Definitely interested in some unrefined sugar source that I could drink before exercise. Aren't there any brands that do this? As of now, I just have a banana and raisins. If I could find a good drink, I wouldn't be as tired after exercise.

paralysed

bee06 wrote: »

Refined sugar is processed and natural sugar is not. Your body will process refined sugar quicker because it has less work to do to digest it and it will result in an insulin spike. Raw fruit also has fibre which makes digestion slower so it doesn't impact your sugar/insulin levels in the same way.

So is any brown sugar unrefined? Or would it be semi refined?

bee06

Yes, brown sugar is refined. It's not naturally occurring so it has to be processed.

I have minimal sugar intake in my diet for medical reasons so I can't really answer your question about sugary drinks.

Zillah

Why are you downing sugar before exercise? That should not be necessary at all.

There is no such thing, really, as refined or unrefined sugar. Glucose, which is what most carbs break down to, will cause an insulin spike if you have too much at once. Fructose, which is the sugar found in fruit, causes far less of an insulin spike but can be only processed by the liver, which can cause stress for the body and have other long term health consequences.

A fructose molecule is fructose, whether it came from a cake or an apple.
A glucose molecule is glucose, whether it came from a bottle of coke or from digesting rice.

The fructose in fruit isn't as bad because the fruit also has fibre, but guzzling mangos is still going to stress your liver. When people say "refined sugar" they mean sugar that has been removed from its original source. To borrow an example: have you ever seen sugar cane? It's a stick. Good luck chewing some sugar out of that. Brown sugar is only unrefined if you're chewing sugar beets in a field to get at it.

Here's a handy rule: if you can drink it, it's refined sugar. Even orange juice.

All of that is a side point to the fact that you absolutely should not need to be drinking down sugar from any source before exercise. During a long, intense period of exertion, maybe, sugar would be ok to help rebuild glycogen stores, but otherwise? Nah.

ford2600

Zillah wrote: »

The fructose in fruit isn't as bad because the fruit also has fibre, but guzzling mangos is still going to stress your liver. When people say "refined sugar" they mean sugar that has been removed from its original source. To borrow an example: have you ever seen sugar cane? It's a stick. Good luck chewing some sugar out of that. Brown sugar is only unrefined if you're chewing sugar beets in a field to get at it..

Really easy actually, quite common in parts of Tanzania to see people walking around with a piece of sugar cane; typically in rural areas where it's grown.

It's sweet as fcuk

On sugar consumption, if you look at studies where they ask people to consume say 20-25% of cals from sugar with a fruit group and junk food group
the group on sugar usually breakdown into
*I couldn't do it
*I managed it but never fcuking again

http://sigmanutrition.com/episode155/

Your fighting a strong tide trying to advise people they don't need "energy" before a workout!


As an aside, in unintended nationwide experiment following a pretty sever recession nationwide average sugar consumption went up, processed carbs went up but obesity levels dropped, type 2 diabetes dropped as people didn't have enough to eat. While those two foods types will generally drive overeating if the food is not there to eat it doesn't seem to matter.

Cuba 1989 BTW

paralysed

Zillah wrote: »

Why are you downing sugar before exercise? That should not be necessary at all.

There is no such thing, really, as refined or unrefined sugar. Glucose, which is what most carbs break down to, will cause an insulin spike if you have too much at once. Fructose, which is the sugar found in fruit, causes far less of an insulin spike but can be only processed by the liver, which can cause stress for the body and have other long term health consequences.

A fructose molecule is fructose, whether it came from a cake or an apple.
A glucose molecule is glucose, whether it came from a bottle of coke or from digesting rice.

The fructose in fruit isn't as bad because the fruit also has fibre, but guzzling mangos is still going to stress your liver. When people say "refined sugar" they mean sugar that has been removed from its original source. To borrow an example: have you ever seen sugar cane? It's a stick. Good luck chewing some sugar out of that. Brown sugar is only unrefined if you're chewing sugar beets in a field to get at it.

Here's a handy rule: if you can drink it, it's refined sugar. Even orange juice.

All of that is a side point to the fact that you absolutely should not need to be drinking down sugar from any source before exercise. During a long, intense period of exertion, maybe, sugar would be ok to help rebuild glycogen stores, but otherwise? Nah.

I did hear about that before with honey. I get a sh1t load of fructose so. I guess there's no way of being completely healthy.

Each day, I eat a pear, an apple (golden delicious), a banana, an orange, and blueberries. Sometimes a peach in there too. I sometimes have lemon and honey drinks too. Me liver's doomed? But then again, I don't drink alcohol, so hopefully that evens it out.

I only have about an 6th of a tea spoon of honey in my drinks, so I hope that's okay.

Toodle

Zillah

ford2600 wrote: »

Your fighting a strong tide trying to advise people they don't need "energy" before a workout!

This is a really weird post but I should respond to this part. You don't need to drink a sugary drink to have energy. The body is perfectly capable of exercising in a fasted state from internal reserves, let alone when you had a decent breakfast.

paralysed wrote: »

I did hear about that before with honey. I get a sh1t load of fructose so. I guess there's no way of being completely healthy.

Pretty much, yeah. Every metabolic process we undertake is chemically stressful on the body. But if you do it right the consequences might not catch up with you until you're eighty, which is fine.

Eating fruit won't damage your liver, and fruit has lots of good stuff in it too. It's more guzzling soft drinks and 'sports' drinks that causes it. They're seeing obese people with fatty liver disease these days, which used to only be seen in chronic alcoholics. They're getting so much fructose in their diet that its completely overloading the liver and it panic dumps the lipids it produces locally.

ford2600

Zillah wrote: »

This is a really weird post but I should respond to this part. You don't need to drink a sugary drink to have energy. The body is perfectly capable of exercising in a fasted state from internal reserves, let alone when you had a decent breakfast.QUOTE]

I was agreeing with you, I've posted often enough about fasted training... I'll put a smiley next time for you

Fighting the tide was a reference to most people new to training seem to think (probably as a result of marketing) that they need special energy foods to train..

paralysed

Zillah wrote: »

The body is perfectly capable of exercising in a fasted state from internal reserves, let alone when you had a decent breakfast.

But I find I need to take nap after it if I don't get my sugar!

Zillah wrote: »

Eating fruit won't damage your liver, and fruit has lots of good stuff in it too. It's more guzzling soft drinks and 'sports' drinks that causes it. They're seeing obese people with fatty liver disease these days, which used to only be seen in chronic alcoholics. They're getting so much fructose in their diet that its completely overloading the liver and it panic dumps the lipids it produces locally.

What about honey, I hear that's got loads of fructose?

paralysed

ford2600 wrote: »

fighting the tide was a reference to most people new to training seem to think (probably as a result of marketing) that they need special energy foods to train..

It's different in a race though?

bee06

paralysed wrote: »

But I find I need to take nap after it if I don't get my sugar!

That's because you're using sugar to get your energy. With sugar it's like being on a rollercoaster. You get a big spike of energy from the hit of sugar but what goes up must some down so you get the energy dip and your body craves more sugar. You'd be better off keeping everything on an even keel and use slow release carbs and protein.

paralysed

bee06 wrote: »

You'd be better off keeping everything on an even keel and use slow release carbs and protein.

I do, but afterwards, should I seek sugar or should I take a nap?

Alf Veedersane

paralysed wrote: »

I do, but afterwards, should I seek sugar or should I take a nap?

Neither.

You should carry on with your day like most other people.

positron

Zillah wrote: »

To borrow an example: have you ever seen sugar cane? It's a stick. Good luck chewing some sugar out of that.

Done exactly that for decades. It's delicious actually. Also gives you strong teeth. Agree with everything else you are saying.

Zillah

positron wrote: »

Done exactly that for decades. It's delicious actually. Also gives you strong teeth. Agree with everything else you are saying.

I'm not saying it's impossible but compare it to refined sugar and think about how much work you've got to do chewing sugar cane vs drinking coke or downing cakes.

learn_more

positron wrote: »

Done exactly that for decades. It's delicious actually. Also gives you strong teeth. Agree with everything else you are saying.

Are you a Panda by any chance ?

positron

Grew up no too far away from sugarcane fields.

paralysed

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Neither.

You should carry on with your day like most other people.

That's not a solution. I'll need to choose one, or else I'm doing something wrong before the work out.

Alf Veedersane

paralysed wrote: »

That's not a solution. I'll need to choose one, or else I'm doing something wrong before the work out.

Have a look at your diet as a whole.

There's something wrong if your only solutions are to either have a load of sugar or have a nap around a workout.

paralysed

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Have a look at your diet as a whole.

There's something wrong if your only solutions are to either have a load of sugar or have a nap around a workout.

My diet is perfect. Maybe there's something wrong with me.

I'll go with the nap! Those kind of naps can be very enjoyable!

paralysed

Zillah wrote: »

Pretty much, yeah. Every metabolic process we undertake is chemically stressful on the body. But if you do it right the consequences might not catch up with you until you're eighty, which is fine.

maybe i'll try eat more fruits with glucose instead of fructose!

Alf Veedersane

paralysed wrote: »

My diet is perfect.

Evidently.

If you're so tired after training, increase your intake from your perfect diet. Food is fuel. If you're running out of energy, you're probably not eating enough.

Zillah

paralysed wrote: »

My diet is perfect. Maybe there's something wrong with me.

I'll go with the nap! Those kind of naps can be very enjoyable!

A nap is certainly a better option than eating sugar. It should not be necessary in a healthy person, however. If you seriously have to eat sugar or fall unconscious after exercise you should talk to your doctor because that is not normal.

Mellor

ford2600 wrote: »

On sugar consumption, if you look at studies where they ask people to consume say 20-25% of cals from sugar with a fruit group and junk food group
the group on sugar usually breakdown into
*I couldn't do it
*I managed it but never fcuking again

What fruit where they eating? 25% from berries might be a slog.
But 25% from high energy fruit would be easy. 6 decent sized pieces of fruit maybe.

Add in dried fruit and it's even easier.

paralysed wrote: »

My diet is perfect. Maybe there's something wrong with me.

I'll go with the nap! Those kind of naps can be very enjoyable!

If you genuinely need a nap, then there is something wrong with your diet, or with you physically. It's also possible that you just think you need a nap.
I'd question how perfect your diet is considering your concerns about sugar intake.

The best course of action in both cases is that you need to see a doctor.