Driving Test - was I in the wrong or what?

Iancar29

Done my test today, failed marginally unfortunately.

Wasn't too disappointed as they were all minor problems easily addressed.

Just one issue I was not happy about.

I was coming up a dual carriage way and was asked to take the next left.

So as I was in the middle lane my procedure was - indicating, glancing over shoulder and then checking mirror and then proceed...

Back at the center I was told that was a 2 mark fault, that I shouldn't of checked my blind spot on a dual carriage way, only mirror in that case.

Since when is it wrong to check your blind spot on a busy road with traffic moving at 60km/hr ???? :mad:

EDIT * Sorry mods, just noticed this should be in the "unsuccessful" thread.

beechwood55

I never glance over my shoulder when changing lanes on a dual carriage way - mirrors only. That is what I was told many moons ago.

Iancar29

But my adi and here says otherwise?

Well I suppose, by law there shouldn't be anyone in your 'blind spot' to the left.
You are only overtaking in any other lane other than the left, so you should've known there was noone in the lane in the left?

dudara

You can't assume anything when driving, so based on my everyday experience you were absolutely right to check your blind spot. But I don't recall if the RotR say something else.

CalamariFritti

Between shouldn't and isn't is a big difference. It's insane to say its wrong. Whoever teaches and tests like that should be shot on the spot.

dev100

Iancar29 wrote:

So as I was in the middle lane my procedure was - indicating, glancing over shoulder and then checking mirror and then proceed...

beechwood55 wrote:

I never glance over my shoulder when changing lanes on a dual carriage way - mirrors only. That is what I was told many moons ago.

For me if I'm going overtaking a line of cars and pulling back into left lane I just throw the eye on the left mirror . You've overtaken a car and should be already aware what's on the left of you ....

If I'm over taking on a dual carriageway depending if it's heavy traffic I'll look in my blind spot and mirror . Cars or bikes can creep up fierce kick in the overtaking lane.... that's just me anyways

CalamariFritti

I suppose if you're overtaking and then you see the last car you just overtook in your mirror you're fairly safe :pac:

That's not what the op sounded like though. It was more like I was driving in the middle lane and had to go left. So anything could have crept up on him in the left lane.

Anyway. Being extra careful could hardly be a reason to fail someone. It only takes a split second to look.

Iancar29

dev100 wrote: »

For me if I'm going overtaking a line of cars and pulling back into left lane I just throw the eye on the left mirror . You've overtaken a car and should be already aware what's on the left of you ....

If I'm over taking on a dual carriageway depending if it's heavy traffic I'll look in my blind spot and mirror . Cars or bikes can creep up fierce kick in the overtaking lane.... that's just me anyways

The left lane was a bus lane, with buses, taxies and other people turning left too. I agree that if its not heavy traffic that your mirrors should suffice, but in my case it wasn't.

cruizer101

That is nuts, I would be looking to see is there any appeal process if I was you. Should always check blind spot you never know who could be flying up inside you. So long as you are not spending time staring over your shoulder and it is just a glance I can't see how it would ever be wrong to check your blind spot.

endacl

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Between shouldn't and isn't is a big difference. It's insane to say its wrong. Whoever teaches and tests like that should be shot on the spot.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/overreaction

CalamariFritti

endacl wrote: »

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/overreaction

http://www.myenglishpages.com/site_php_files/writing-hyperbole.php

neonsofa

Perhaps your idea of checking your blind spot is different to the testers, in that he wouldn't mind a really quick glance but you looked over your shoulder and took eyes off road for too long?

Some people think their blind spot is behind their shoulder out the back window and almost turn around to check, whereas it is actually a quick glance to/over the shoulder to view the spot that is not accounted for by the mirrors.

It sounds like you actually understand your blind spots though and had reasoning for checking it. Hard luck on the test, I'd say you'll do grand on your next one, all pretty minor things that you can improve. Good luck

MascotDec85

neonsofa wrote: »

Perhaps your idea of checking your blind spot is different to the testers, in that he wouldn't mind a really quick glance but you looked over your shoulder and took eyes off road for too long?

Some people think their blind spot is behind their shoulder out the back window and almost turn around to check, whereas it is actually a quick glance to/over the shoulder to view the spot that is not accounted for by the mirrors.

It sounds like you actually understand your blind spots though and had reasoning for checking it. Hard luck on the test, I'd say you'll do grand on your next one, all pretty minor things that you can improve. Good luck

This

bucketybuck

neonsofa wrote: »

Perhaps your idea of checking your blind spot is different to the testers, in that he wouldn't mind a really quick glance but you looked over your shoulder and took eyes off road for too long?

Yeah, I wondered why others weren't considering this, a busy motorway or 3 lane dual carriageway is not the place to be physically turning to look behind you, any more than it is a place for a "quick glance" at a mobile phone.

Turn and look over your shoulder, then turn your head back just in time to see yourself hitting the car that emergency braked in front of you. I can see exactly why they would discourage that practice on busy roads, and thats not even accounting for all the idiots that would let the car drift to the left if they looked over their left shoulder...

Learn to use mirrors properly and blind spots aren't an issue.

chicorytip

Looking over your shoulder whilst driving on a busy road such as a dual carrageway is downright dangerous simply because it increases the risk of colliding with the vehicle immediately in front of you. Manouvering in or out of tight parking spaces is the only situation where it's really necessary, in everyday driving.

CalamariFritti

You really think so?
Like more dangerous than changing lane on a busy road assuming no one will be in your blind spot? Ever?
Think again.

bucketybuck

CalamariFritti wrote: »

You really think so?
Like more dangerous than changing lane on a busy road assuming no one will be in your blind spot? Ever?
Think again.

Use your mirrors properly and you won't need to gawk over your shoulder to know what is around you.

cruizer101

How will you know that someone on a motorbike hasn't nipped up into your blind spot. How often are you recommending you look in your mirrors, it doesn't take long for someone to enter you blindspot, if you are constantly looking in your mirrors thats just as bad or worse than looking over your shoulder.
Nobody is recommending gawking over your shoulder rather a quick glance.
OP didn't say tester said they spent too long looking over shoulder rather they shouldn't have looked over at all to me that is just madness.

Iancar29

neonsofa wrote: »

Perhaps your idea of checking your blind spot is different to the testers, in that he wouldn't mind a really quick glance but you looked over your shoulder and took eyes off road for too long?

Some people think their blind spot is behind their shoulder out the back window and almost turn around to check, whereas it is actually a quick glance to/over the shoulder to view the spot that is not accounted for by the mirrors.

Chin to shoulder is what I do for checking blind spot.

bucketybuck

cruizer101 wrote: »

How will you know that someone on a motorbike hasn't nipped up into your blind spot.

By being an observant driver who knows how to properly use their mirrors. Was that a trick question?

neonsofa

Iancar29 wrote: »

Chin to shoulder is what I do for checking blind spot.

Then I'd have thought it's not a problem checking, If you're not turning around to look as suggested. Maybe you took longer than needed? I wouldn't have thought a quick blind spot check would be "wrong", even if it is "unnecessary". Sorry I'm no help!

face1990

bucketybuck wrote: »

Use your mirrors properly and you won't need to gawk over your shoulder to know what is around you.

Fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of a blind spot.

Also bear in mind they're called 'accidents' for a reason.

If you think you're infallible on the road, you'll have that knocked out of you sooner or later.

bucketybuck

face1990 wrote: »

Fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of a blind spot.

Also bear in mind they're called 'accidents' for a reason.

If you think you're infallible on the road, you'll have that knocked out of you sooner or later.

I work in the motor industry and have unfortunately been at the aftermath of far too many road accidents, you can rest assured I know quite well what a blind spot is and how fallible anybody is on the road.

Commotion Ocean

There's dickheads undertaking all the time. Some dickheads will speed up as you overtake them, OP was right to check blindspot. Even if you're not obliged to do it, there should be no harm in actually doing it. It's hardly a breach of safety to do it.

TheRiverman

I never look over my shoulder at any time driving on a dual carriageway,always use my mirrors.Never had a blind spot problem in forty years of driving cars,vans and lorries.

CalamariFritti

I think I'm going to make a conscious decision to stay away from all rules and best practices debates from now on. It's too depressing. But it explains a lot.

J_R

Hi,

When the EDT was launched a delegation from the RSA went on a tour of Ireland to explain the workings and implementation of the EDT to the newly qualified ADIs.

Alter they explained the syllabus and its workings they threw the floor open for general questions.

Following copy of emails I exchanged with the RSA

Hi,

Was at the RSA meeting yesterday ********.

Would like some clarification on the following.

A question was asked from the floor by an ADI.

On a two lane roundabout, is it necessary to check your blind spot before moving from the inside lane to the outside to exit.

The reply was "No, provided correct use was made of the properly adjusted exterior left mirror

I then asked, was it necessary to do a quick shoulder check when joining a dual carriageway.

Received the answer, no, provided exterior right mirror properly adjusted and used correctly.

Above directly contradicts my understanding of checks involved when changing lanes. Also experience gained from analysing driving test results.

Please clarify.

Thanking You,

--
John Ryan





Dear Mr.Ryan,
My colleague Mr.Michael Dolan- Chief ADI Examiner has asked me to contact you in respect of your request for clarification on observations/mirrors on roundabouts and when joining dual carriageways.

I have set out below the RSA's position from the point of view of assessing test applicants, however I certainly appreciate your point of view in respect of shoulder check and as mentioned at all of the meetings we fully understand that in teaching novice drivers,ADI's are constantly striving to impart what could be described as "best practice" (in terms of the information and instruction given). However in testing a candidate driver testers use the standard as set down by The Chief Driver Tester when assessing any faults that present themselves during the test. This standard is set at a point which is the minimum that would be acceptable for the purposes of obtaining a driving licence.

Regarding your query on :
Observations
An applicant should take proper observations as required before moving off, when overtaking, when changing lane(s), at cross ­junctions, at roundabouts, when turning right, and turning left, otherwise a fault may be recorded for ‘Observations’ as appropriate.
As mirror use is related to ‘Observations’, some driving situations can be covered by either option, and in these situations this is acceptable provided it is done correctly.
The mirror(s) to be used should be clean, serviceable, and correctly adjusted.
The use of the mirror(s) should be correctly timed ­not too early or too late.
On Category ‘B’ car tests, faults which are incurred for not making proper use of the external mirror(s) are recorded as ‘Observation’ faults and not as ‘Mirror’ faults in this case

I trust this clarifies the situation for you however if you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.
I wish to thank you sincerely for your attendance at the meeting and your interest shown in seeking clarity.

Yours sincerely,

Now by pure coincidence I was giving a driving lesson to a pupil. An excellent common sense driver. We were joining a dual carriageway and I saw a petrol tanker on the carriageway that I reckoned would be nicely in our blind spot so:- more emails

Thank you for the reply.

Yesterday I gave a lesson to a pupil who is approaching test standard. At start of the lesson, I informed him that I had been advised by a man from RSA HQ that when joining a dual carriageway, changing lanes on a roundabout, provided mirrors used correctly, they were sufficient. Blind spot checks were now redundant and would try it their way.

Half way through the lesson, we joined the dual carriageway at Caltragh. Along the slip road I watched him as he made frequent checks in the right hand mirror. Only that I "dualed" him, he would have driven onto the dual carriageway directly in front of a petrol tanker.
"
When asked, he said he never saw the tanker but that just as I braked, he saw the "glow" of the lorry. Mirrors clean, properly adjusted and visibility was perfect .

Please advise what we did wrong. ??

John



Dear John,
Just on a point of clarification I did not say that “blind spot checks were redundant" and my reply to your query outlines the exact situation you experienced with your pupil. I stated that as per the RSA’s Marking Guidelines that Mirror use is related to Observations and that some driving situations can be covered by either option, and in these situations this is acceptable for the purpose of the Driving Test provided it is done correctly.
As mentioned at the meeting we recognise that Driving Instructors are already training Learner Drivers in accordance with "best practice" i.e. to make blind spot checks, in conjunction with all other necessary observations (this remains the position of the RSA). The question I was addressing for you was in relation to the minimum standard as applied during the Driving Test.
I trust this clarifies the position for you.

Regards & thanks,

Finally last email sent to RSA

Hi Frank,

wires slightly crossed. Forget about standards.

I am just still seeking clarification on the advice I and the room full of ADI's received at the meeting.

Questions were,

Is a blind spot check necessary when changing from the inside to the outside lane on a roundabout, and answer given was NO, provided proper and sufficient mirror checks taken and mirrors properly adjusted

I was very surprised by this answer and tabled my own,

Question
Is a blind spot check necessary when joining a dual carriageway or motorway
Same answer, NO provided mirrors etc etc

Sought further clarification and added the question, A quick shoulder check ??
Again same answer NO.

Only conclusion I can draw is that he was speaking of a full back over the shoulder check. But impresssion I drew, and perhaps the other ADI's, was that no blind spot check whatsoever necessary in both scenarios.

Awaiting

and the final

Hi,

As a conscientious driving instructor I do not concentrate on teaching my pupils to merely pass the driving test, but instead my main consideration is to prepare them for a lifetime of safe driving.

I have the training and experience to know that blind spot checks are usually essential when changing lanes and teach my pupils accordingly.

However I fear that following the Sligo meeting, less experienced instructors may now be under the mistaken belief that blind spot checks are necessary when doing the manoeuvres and moving off from rest.. That they are not necessary when changing lanes on roundabouts or when joining dual carriageways.

To finish, found your replies enlightening

John



2009/4/27
Hello John,
Just to reiterate as already stated in my previous E-mails, as Training & Standards Officer for the RSA I am very conscious & mindful at all times about standards as applied on the Driving Test.

There is no doubt that blind spot checks are necessary or that in some driving situations (as I have outlined earlier) i.e. during a driving test, this observation may be taken either by direct observations or the appropriate mirror use. (My bold)

John, hoping this clarification meets your requirements and just to finish off I would like to say that your contributions to this debate about all the options are very welcome.

I taught my pupil to give a full backward check when stopped prior to moving off. However when moving, changing lanes or road position, to give a quick shoulder check and to the best of my knowledge if they followed this advise they never got marked for Obs.


Cleared it up or confused even more ???

emeldc

chicorytip wrote: »

Looking over your shoulder whilst driving on a busy road such as a dual carrageway is downright dangerous simply because it increases the risk of colliding with the vehicle immediately in front of you. Manouvering in or out of tight parking spaces is the only situation where it's really necessary, in everyday driving.

I nominate this for post of the day

neonsofa

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

When the EDT was launched a delegation from the RSA went on a tour of Ireland to explain the workings and implementation of the EDT to the newly qualified ADIs.

Alter they explained the syllabus and its workings they threw the floor open for general questions.

Following copy of emails I exchanged with the RSA



Now by pure coincidence I was giving a driving lesson to a pupil. An excellent common sense driver. We were joining a dual carriageway and I saw a petrol tanker on the carriageway that I reckoned would be nicely in our blind spot so:- more emails





Finally last email sent to RSA


and the final



I taught my pupil to give a full backward check when stopped prior to moving off. However when moving, changing lanes or road position, to give a quick shoulder check and to the best of my knowledge if they followed this advise they never got marked for Obs.


Cleared it up or confused even more ???

Wow, they were like a politicians answer. I don't know how that person had the patience to continue that conversation! I like how they clarified that they want to teach lifetime safe driving not just what is necessary to pass the test- sign of a proper instructor imo.

bucketybuck

A HGV on the right hand side of the car and the learner didn't see it?

Sounds like a student who doesn't know how to use their mirrors and shouldn't be driving on motorways. No pointing blaming the RSA for that level of driving quality.

J_R

bucketybuck wrote: »

A HGV on the right hand side of the car and the learner didn't see it?

Sounds like a student who doesn't know how to use their mirrors and shouldn't be driving on motorways. No pointing blaming the RSA for that level of driving quality.

Hi,

seems like you do not believe in "Blind Spots"

See:- https://youtu.be/yCFhFOD6UEU
https://youtu.be/yCFhFOD6UEU

If you believe blind spots do not exist, buy a Volvo.

bucketybuck

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

seems like you do not believe in "Blind Spots"

I know better than you do what a blind spot is, anybody with a HGV license does.

Stop blaming their existence for poor driving and poor observational skills, it wasn't the existence of blind spots that prevented your student from spotting a very large vehicle already driving on the carriageway they wanted to join. Perhaps you should look closer to home than blaming the RSA for that incident.

emeldc

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know better than you do what a blind spot is, anybody with a HGV license does.

Stop blaming their existence for poor driving and poor observational skills, it wasn't the existence of blind spots that prevented your student from spotting a very large vehicle already driving on the carriageway they wanted to join. Perhaps you should look closer to home than blaming the RSA for that incident.

Do you believe in blind spots or not. It doesn't matter if it's a bike, a car or HGV, if the front of it is in your blind spot the best way to see it is to glance over your shoulder. HGV driver me hoop.

bucketybuck

emeldc wrote: »

Do you believe in blind spots or not. It doesn't matter if it's a bike, a car or HGV, if the front of it is in your blind spot the best way to see it is to glance over your shoulder. HGV driver me hoop.

I don't think you know what a blind spot is. If you think there is no difference between a cyclist in the blind spot on the opposite side to the driver and a very large vehicle on the same side as the driver, then I'm not sure there are any words in english that can explain it to you.

Look over your shoulder all you want, it won't change that fact that any competent driver should be able to see that HGV in their D/S mirror. If they can't then they have bigger problems to address.

emeldc

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't think you know what a blind spot is. If you think there is no difference between a cyclist in the blind spot on the opposite side to the driver and a very large vehicle on the same side as the driver, then I'm not sure there are any words in english that can explain it to you.

Look over your shoulder all you want, it won't change that fact that any competent driver should be able to see that HGV in their D/S mirror. If they can't then they have bigger problems to address.

The angle to the drivers eyes is exactly the same, as the R/H mirror is turned in at a tighter angle to the L/H mirror. You need to stop now. I am.

bucketybuck

emeldc wrote: »

The angle to the drivers eyes is exactly the same, as the R/H mirror is turned in at a tighter angle to the L/H mirror. You need to stop now. I am.

Sure. Watch out for those 40 foot trucks, they really creep up on you.

Del2005

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

When the EDT was launched a delegation from the RSA went on a tour of Ireland to explain the workings and implementation of the EDT to the newly qualified ADIs.

Alter they explained the syllabus and its workings they threw the floor open for general questions.

Following copy of emails I exchanged with the RSA



Now by pure coincidence I was giving a driving lesson to a pupil. An excellent common sense driver. We were joining a dual carriageway and I saw a petrol tanker on the carriageway that I reckoned would be nicely in our blind spot so:- more emails





Finally last email sent to RSA


and the final



I taught my pupil to give a full backward check when stopped prior to moving off. However when moving, changing lanes or road position, to give a quick shoulder check and to the best of my knowledge if they followed this advise they never got marked for Obs.


Cleared it up or confused even more ???

Got to love the RSA. For a motorcycle test you have to do a "Live saver" for every lane change or turn yet in a vehicle which can do way more damage it's optional!!

Del2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't think you know what a blind spot is. If you think there is no difference between a cyclist in the blind spot on the opposite side to the driver and a very large vehicle on the same side as the driver, then I'm not sure there are any words in english that can explain it to you.

If they aren't visible in the mirrors they are both the same, a blind spot. Years ago I'd a Chevy Tahoe hire car, the mirrors on it where huge yet as I was driving another full size US truck came along side me and then disappeared in the blind spot.

Plenty of motorists don't use their mirrors when driving, how many times have you waited for miles and given a flash/indicator on behind someone in the overtaking lane not overtaking!, so they need to do proper checks when changing lanes, but they don't do this either.

chicorytip

CalamariFritti wrote:

You really think so? Like more dangerous than changing lane on a busy road assuming no one will be in your blind spot? Ever? Think again.

There is no such thing as a "blind spot", only badly adjusted, unused or, in some instances, completely missing wing mirrors.

Sleeper12

If your mirrors are positioned correctly I don't see how you can have a blind spot. I drive a van with no back Windows. All I have are my two side mirrors (no rear view mirror)and I don't have any blind spots.
On the dual carriageway it's dangerous to look over your shoulder.

emeldc

chicorytip wrote: »

There is no such thing as a "blind spot", only badly adjusted, unused or, in some instances, completely missing wing mirrors.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If your mirrors are positioned correctly I don't see how you can have a blind spot. I drive a van with no back Windows. All I have are my two side mirrors (no rear view mirror)and I don't have any blind spots.
On the dual carriageway it's dangerous to look over your shoulder.

Is it any wonder there are so many accidents

Iancar29

J_R wrote: »

Hi,....



Cleared it up or confused even more ???

Woah, definitely a politician answer there indeed! But thanks for that anyways.

I find it dangerous that some people here don't believe in blind spots. One of the very first set of lessons I done was recognising your blind spot. Adjusting your mirrors only moves the blind spot area.

After receiving my email for complete list of marks against me on the day. I'm disappointed that the issue wasn't written down onto it. So when i resist my test next time I dont get marked against for not checking. Very confusing situation.

Thanks everyone for the great debate.

bucketybuck

Del2005 wrote: »

Plenty of motorists don't use their mirrors when driving,

Which is rather the point. Observant behaviour and proper use of mirrors is far more important than trying to goad the RSA into blanket statements of whether or not drivers should be physically looking over their shoulders.

If drivers were constantly aware of what is happening around them instead of sitting in a little bubble until the point were they need to change lanes then the blind spot would be less of a problem.

bucketybuck

Iancar29 wrote: »

I find it dangerous that some people here don't believe in blind spots.

:rolleyes:

Sleeper12

emeldc wrote:

Is it any wonder there are so many accidents

I can see two full lanes left and right of my van. I also know what cars are where. I don't just check my mirrors when changing lane. I am aware of the traffic at all times all around me. I'm over 30 years driving and I put up 500/600miles per week. I've also completed advanced driving courses. I don't have blind spots.
I have no rear or side Windows. I have a front, driver and passenger window. That's it. I can look over my shoulder all I want but all ill see is the bulk head. You need to learn how to adjust your mirrors correctly and if necessary add stick on mirrors to your mirrors.

Del2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

Which is rather the point. Observant behaviour and proper use of mirrors is far more important than trying to goad the RSA into blanket statements of whether or not drivers should be physically looking over their shoulders.

If drivers were constantly aware of what is happening around them instead of sitting in a little bubble until the point were they need to change lanes then the blind spot would be less of a problem.

I check my mirrors regularly but when I'm changing lanes I still have a quick look over my shoulder as vehicles can still get into a position where I can't see in the mirrors. Also got docked marks when doing the driving test in the US for not checking blind spots.

Del2005

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I can see two full lanes left and right of my van. I also know what cars are where. I don't just check my mirrors when changing lane. I am aware of the traffic at all times all around me. I'm over 30 years driving and I put up 500/600miles per week. I've also completed advanced driving courses. I don't have blind spots.
I have no rear or side Windows. I have a front, driver and passenger window. That's it. I can look over my shoulder all I want but all ill see is the bulk head. You need to learn how to adjust your mirrors correctly and if necessary add stick on mirrors to your mirrors.

I'm sick of people saying that I did x years and you miles without a crash so I must be right. My Dad has been driving 50 years with 1 crash, not his fault, but he's one of the worst drivers I've been in a car with. Not having a crash doesn't make one a good driver.

Sleeper12

Del2005 wrote: »

I'm sick of people saying that I did x years and you miles without a crash so I must be right. My Dad has been driving 50 years with 1 crash, not his fault, but he's one of the worst drivers I've been in a car with. Not having a crash doesn't make one a good driver.

I didn't say that but I have advanced driving skills & I drive more or less for a living. 80 to 100k per hour. Never faster. I average 60 in an 80k zone. They are limits not targets. I'm slow on the take off & easy on the breaks & I don't have any blind spots as a lot of younger drivers seem to feel they have. I'd imagine you'd find me annoying to be in front of you. You won't get anywhere fast if following me but you might get there alive. That's why my insurance is so cheap.

J_R

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know better than you do what a blind spot is, anybody with a HGV license does.

Stop blaming their existence for poor driving and poor observational skills, it wasn't the existence of blind spots that prevented your student from spotting a very large vehicle already driving on the carriageway they wanted to join. Perhaps you should look closer to home than blaming the RSA for that incident.

Hi,

The reason the pupil did not spot the truck was because he was following my instructions. At the start of the lesson I told him that a High Ranking idiot from Ballina said it was not necessary to check blind spots when changing lanes/road position. He agreed with me that he was an idiot.

On the slip road I saw the petrol tanker and realised that it was a golden opportunity to disprove the idiot's advice.

So, told my pupil NOT to check his blind spot but only use his mirrors. He was a very steady very common sense driver and I could see he was not at all happy, but he followed my instructions and ONLY used his mirrors. And as I posted only that I stopped him at the last moment he would have driven out in front of the truck. A very simple (shoulder) blind spot check and he would have seen the truck.

Again the reason he did not see the truck It was in his blind spot.

A very constructive example in my view. I am sure that ex pupil is always checking his blind spot when joining a motorway/ dual carriageway

And you say "I know better than you do what a blind spot is, anybody with a HGV license does."

What makes you say that, I had a full licence, CE and DE

bucketybuck

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

The reason the pupil did not spot the truck was because he was following my instructions. At the start of the lesson I told him that a High Ranking idiot from Ballina said it was not necessary to check blind spots when changing lanes/road position. He agreed with me that he was an idiot.

On the slip road I saw the petrol tanker and realised that it was a golden opportunity to disprove the idiot's advice.

So, told my pupil NOT to check his blind spot but only use his mirrors. He was a very steady very common sense driver and I could see he was not at all happy, but he followed my instructions and ONLY used his mirrors. And as I posted only that I stopped him at the last moment he would have driven out in front of the truck. A very simple (shoulder) blind spot check and he would have seen the truck.

Again the reason he did not see the truck It was in his blind spot.

A very constructive example in my view. I am sure that ex pupil is always checking his blind spot when joining a motorway/ dual carriageway

And you say "I know better than you do what a blind spot is, anybody with a HGV license does."

What makes you say that, I had a full licence, CE and DE

Here is a very simple fact.

Any driver unaware of the existence of a very large vehicle in the lane he wanted to join on a busy carriageway is a driver who was not very observant and who did not properly know how to use his rear view mirrors.

You can blame blind spots and people in the RSA all day long if you makes you feel better but that very large vehicle did not creep silently into your students blind spot like some 16 ton ninja, it was there to be seen in his mirrors if he had the wherewithal and the teaching to do it.