Watch and Record Live TV via Kodi

matrat

Hi,

In the process of getting the new house set up for all media. Currently have sky tv but not be renewed.
I have seen on forums about connecting the tv aerial into the NAS, and this will allow to watch live Saorview on any tv through Kodi, hopefully allowing for different tv's to have different channels on live and record to the NAS at the same time. Does anyone do this here? If so, what hardware do i need? Will a single input tv tuner card allow for only one channel at a time or will the software allow to watch multiple at the one time?
Also the house has a sky dish setup naturally so was wondering is there a way to have this connected also and pick up the HD free to air channels in the UK? Channel 4 etc, and again watch live via kodi and record. Is this possible?
Or would i need to use a freesat box of sort to decode and combine the sat and aerial signals into one output and have this route to the NAS to watch? A
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Johnboy1951

You need a 'box' with multiple tuners to which to feed the aerial and sat dish cables.
This 'box' can then run software like Tvheadend to manage the tuners and recording etc etc.
That 'box' can then make all the live TV available to any device on the LAN (wired or wireless) with suitable software (Kodi, VLC etc) to play the content.
For TV use, a smart TV or client device like R-Pi to standard TV or monitor, can do the job, as can tablets, phones etc.

matrat

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You need a 'box' with multiple tuners to which to feed the aerial and sat dish cables.
This 'box' can then run software like Tvheadend to manage the tuners and recording etc etc.
That 'box' can then make all the live TV available to any device on the LAN (wired or wireless) with suitable software (Kodi, VLC etc) to play the content.
For TV use, a smart TV or client device like R-Pi to standard TV or monitor, can do the job, as can tablets, phones etc.

Thanks for the quick response Johnboy,

So i can then set this box to record to the NAS then and have kodi access the recordings from it? And set kodi to use it for live input?
Can this box replicate signals or does it need an exact number of feeds similar to sky, one to watch live while the other records?
Any recommendations on a box? What to look out for on them etc? Any guides on how to set them up?
Can you for example get a "box" that runs kodi and will output 4K? My sky box currently sits below my main tv, so if i placed the new "box" there instead of sky and also use it as the kodi device to play 4k media from the NAS setup in the office, this would be great. Then i just need to get 2 HD playback devices for the other two tvs in the house.

Johnboy1951

Before getting into details around the hardware needed, you must first specify exactly your requirements.
How many TV channels will you wish to be able to viewed simultaneously?
How many physical TVs and how spread about?
What about PCs, laptops, tablets, phones etc? Will you want TV & media to be available on those too?
Is all this to go into a relatively small sized house, or an extensive house?
Is the house wired for LAN or do you propose to do this?

All of those and more impact on what would suit best.
It might very well be the best is just a simple Freesat STB plus a Saorview TV (or STB) ..... or you might be best served by something a bit more extensive.

Have a read through a lot of the threads on this forum to get an idea what others are doing in similar circumstances to yourself.

matrat

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Before getting into details around the hardware needed, you must first specify exactly your requirements.
How many TV channels will you wish to be able to viewed simultaneously?
How many physical TVs and how spread about?
What about PCs, laptops, tablets, phones etc? Will you want TV & media to be available on those too?
Is all this to go into a relatively small sized house, or an extensive house?
Is the house wired for LAN or do you propose to do this?

All of those and more impact on what would suit best.
It might very well be the best is just a simple Freesat STB plus a Saorview TV (or STB) ..... or you might be best served by something a bit more extensive.

Have a read through a lot of the threads on this forum to get an idea what others are doing in similar circumstances to yourself.

Thanks Johnboy,

yeah fair enough, i understand exactly.
So here goes
New large house.
All tv points wired with two cat6, with a spare in the attic.
Aerial is in the attic but stupidly the sat cables (3 of them) route only to the main downstairs tv.

What i would like from the new system;
1) Access to all my media in either 4k or hd quality at every tv (Currently 4)
2) Access to live tv and recorded tv at every tv. The ability to watch live tv while also recording would be a nice feature.

Idea so far;
Build a NAS/PC for the attic to store all media with LAN access. Include in this a tuner card for the aerial. The tuning of the sat cables will have to come from a Sat>IP device under the main tv, connected to the network. Run Kodi or Plex media server on this PC, and have suitable devices at each tv to connect to LAN.

Firstly, i am no expert so not even sure if all the above is even possible. Secondly, i dont fully understand all the software considerations, i.e. Kodi v Plex, tvheadend, nextpvr etc. I dont know how much spec i need to put into this machine or can i share the load with the devices at the tv? For example, if i have Kodi on this machine, can i set up kodi at the tvs to be a mirror of this? So if i make a change to kodi on the attic unit, all tvs reflect the change? Or if i need a strong machine in attic to handle the tvheadend for example, then does it make most sense for this machine to handle the trancoding and use Plex media server and its client on cheap tv devices? Again, will the tvs be a mirror of the attic system so is the same experience across all tvs.

I am at the design spec stage of the whole project so looking for as much help/advice as possible now so can have best setup when i get it all done!!

Johnboy1951

Thank you.
That provides most of the info needed and it all looks good to me.

Personal thoughts follow

I would arrange to set up the tuner/server box in a cool space, out of sight and hearing of everybody.
If I had a preference it would not be in the attic, but a lot of attics are more accessible than mine
Some access needs to be considered, although irregularly.

I see lots of posts about transcoding.
I have never had to transcode any media.
Certainly it might take up a bit of extra space on a HDD if not done, but a larger HDD is much easier manage than over specifying the hardware to make sure it is capable of transcoding.

File serving takes very little resources.
Serving Live TV or Recorded TV or other media files, takes very little resources on the server.

All tv points wired with two cat6

Do all those cables come back to a central point? (lets call it the media press). If wired correctly then they should.
Are they all wired up to a Patch Panel in the media press?

So the initial set up for you might be like so .....

Media Press where all room cables get connected to the Patch Panel. The Patch Panel connected to an easy manage Switch, with the switch also connected to the modem/router, and also to the Tuner/Server box (in the attic).

Signals would then be routed from TV/Media server/tuner to media press and from there to whichever room called for it.
Similarly the internet connection would go to the media press and be available to all rooms.

At each of the TVs you would need a small client device (running Kodi on some OS) to manage your viewing.
R-Pi 3, NUC and similar small devices are very suitable for the purpose.

The tuner/server box can be headless and managed from any location.
My preference is for tvheadend to manage things but there are other software choices also.
I also use Libreelec on both my tuner/server as well as on each client device. This provides me one great advantage ...... updates to the OS can be automatic or manually managed, and all use the same OS so the whole is greatly simplified from my point of view.

The Channel choice and order ... mixed Saorview and FTA Satellite list ...... is done once on the backend and all client devices pick it up from there. There is some administration to be done when new channels join FTA or when channels change frequency. It is not much and can be done while sitting on a sofa from a tablet

The quantity and tuner types are mostly determined by the number of users and recordings you might expect at any one time.

At this time a dual tuner card for DVB-T will provide everybody with whatever Saorview channel they wish and also allow recording. There being only two active muxes only two tuners are required.

Satellite is a different proposition. You should probably get as many tuners are there will be users at any one time, plus one or two for recording.

My first guess would be a dual tuner DVB-T card and probably an 8 tuner DVB-S card ..... but that is allowing for the max as I see it. You might know that a Quad tuner DVB-S card would suffice.

I use PCIe cards, but you can also get USB tuners.
I suggest there should be at least one space PCIe slot in the tuner/server to allow for some expansion if required.
The cards I use (TBS) are quite happy in the smaller PCIe sockets, so the spare is not usually a problem.

I don't know if the above is really what you have in mind, so feel free to point out incorrect assumptions

Anyway hope those thoughts help a little.

Have fun!

Last item of info:- My tuner server is an old Dell with a dual core P4 3.00Ghz.
It uses ~300MBs RAM. (yes less than one third of a GB )
CPU use serving two PCs at present hits 10% on one core briefly, otherwise much less.
I have used this to record 5 channels at one time while viewing another couple. I would expect to hit the max the HDD circuitry could manage before anything else interfered, so a more modern (faster) motherboard, ram and CPU would have no problems it seems.

matrat

Thanks Johnboy, this is great info.

You are right, all cat 6 points terminate at a gb switch in the utility room which is connected to the nearby router.

Few initial questions;
1) Regarding the tuners, when you say dual dvb-t, does that mean an aerial signal split into two or do i need an aerial that has two output?
Similar to the 8 dvb-s, i take it i need an 8 port lnb for this?

2) It is my understanding that with Kodi, the device at the tv is handling the playback. So say the file on server is 4k, and tv is reg hd, then the device at tv handles the playback in hd? As opposed to plex where the server handles this? And if i use plex media server, with kodi client on device at tv, is this still the same? Just trying to figure out the spec of the tv devices. I would much rather have spec properly and have perfect playback.

As far as the server itself, i would like around 6-8tb of space i think and not yet decided on raid, may come down to price. Only old computer i had is already re purposed to the garage with team viewer to connect to my main desktop so i can work on CAD, access internet etc out there.

Thanks again for your help, get very conscious of reading about some of these softwares etc at other side of the world and be worried that may not all work here so is great to know it does. Do you mind if i ask what kind of channel selection you get for your setup?
I am happy enough with being able to watch and record the free to air stuff and use other means to get anything not shown on them!

Johnboy1951

matrat wrote: »

Thanks Johnboy, this is great info.

You are right, all cat 6 points terminate at a gb switch in the utility room which is connected to the nearby router.

Few initial questions;
1) Regarding the tuners, when you say dual dvb-t, does that mean an aerial signal split into two or do i need an aerial that has two output?
Similar to the 8 dvb-s, i take it i need an 8 port lnb for this?

The aerial wire can be split unlike the Sat dish wire.
One connection is all is needed to a Dual Tuner DVB-T card. If you fit another card then you will need another wire, but this can be 'T'd' off the first one, or more usually the first card will have a 'Loop through'.

2) It is my understanding that with Kodi, the device at the tv is handling the playback. So say the file on server is 4k, and tv is reg hd, then the device at tv handles the playback in hd? As opposed to plex where the server handles this? And if i use plex media server, with kodi client on device at tv, is this still the same? Just trying to figure out the spec of the tv devices. I would much rather have spec properly and have perfect playback.

I have no experience of Plex in this situation and have no 4K TV.

As far as the server itself, i would like around 6-8tb of space i think and not yet decided on raid, may come down to price. Only old computer i had is already re purposed to the garage with team viewer to connect to my main desktop so i can work on CAD, access internet etc out there.

I have actually reduced my storage space in the last year.
I still have my server with 4 x 3TB drives, but I have taken to leaving it unpowered for long periods due to lack of use.
I had intended to move the tuners into that box and use it as all-in-one, but my experiments with the P4 became a permanent set up

Thanks again for your help, get very conscious of reading about some of these softwares etc at other side of the world and be worried that may not all work here so is great to know it does. Do you mind if i ask what kind of channel selection you get for your setup?
I am happy enough with being able to watch and record the free to air stuff and use other means to get anything not shown on them!

I have FTA live TV from Saorview and Astra.
If you are unsure what channels this covers there is a list here of the Satellite FTA channels
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055520627

I should mention at this stage that there are alternatives to the legacy tuner cards and set up which might interest you for Satellite reception.
One such option I had expected to 'take off' seems to have gone very quiet, and that is Sat>IP at the LNB, so that no coax cable is required, only a Cat6 which carries all the data into the home.
This is a flat panel version
https://www.cyberport.de/?DEEP=C399-11Q&APID=263
There were also LNBs for standard (not Sky) dishes with similar characteristics from Inverto and Triax.

Another alternative might be Sat>IP servers sold as commercial devices (I have the impression they are quite costly but not sure).
There are some for the home like these
http://www.vboxcomm.com/product-page/satellite.html
http://www.inverto.tv/products/product.php?id=242

I haven't used any of those but that flat panel looked attractive to me. I am waiting for someone else to try before I do

Other things in the pipeline for the consumer are wideband LNBs and receivers, but they are not plentiful if available at all yet.

matrat

Thanks again Johnboy,

This is great stuff. Very helpful.

Here is what i am thinking so far, correct me if any is wrong;

Relatively inexpensive new server, good cooling, desired amount of storage, a Dual Tuner DVB-T card allowing me to watch and record live tv simultaneously, a quad tuner dvb-s card, allowing me to watch 2 shows and record two more from the free to air picked up by existing sky dish. Tvheadend or similar software running on linux based os.

Then 4 devices for tv's, one speced to handle 4k playback, the other 3 speced for HD. Assuming kodi all across the board and i like your idea of matching the os over all devices.

All sound about right?

Johnboy1951

matrat wrote: »

Thanks again Johnboy,

This is great stuff. Very helpful.

Here is what i am thinking so far, correct me if any is wrong;

Relatively inexpensive new server, good cooling, desired amount of storage, a Dual Tuner DVB-T card allowing me to watch and record live tv simultaneously, a quad tuner dvb-s card, allowing me to watch 2 shows and record two more from the free to air picked up by existing sky dish. Tvheadend or similar software running on linux based os.

Then 4 devices for tv's, one speced to handle 4k playback, the other 3 speced for HD. Assuming kodi all across the board and i like your idea of matching the os over all devices.

All sound about right?

That seems to cover your requirements as I understand them.

In case there is any confusion I would like to point out that with four Sat tuners, tuned to 4 different transponders you will have the capability of receiving ALL the channels carried by those four transponders, and not just the four initial channels.
Each transponder will carry multiple channels so they will all be available.
Of course you will most likely regard the other available channels as rubbish because of the mix on the transponders . but nevertheless they will be available to you.

Since I posted I did a couple of tests on UHD here.
As expected my R-Pi 2 is not capable of playing the Astra UHD test channel.
My desktop PC (i7 3770) could play it but not well ..... CPU cores went to 100% due to no hardware acceleration.
I tested two sample videos on the i7 also.
One played well with no CPU load to speak of ...... using Vaapi hardware acceleration.
The other would barely play due I believe the video format for which there was no hardware acceleration available.
So I had mixed results.

While playing the Astra UHD channel on my desktop the backend server CPU use hit about 13% intermittently, so no great difference there. Remember this is a real old Dell Dimension 5150 with a P4 dual core.

Presumably a 4k client device would be able to handle all those in hardware ..... I have never had one so do not have any real life experience with different formats.

.

matrat

Regarding the sat tuners, i am a little confused. When you say all 4 are tuned to different transponders, does this mean that only one source is available for each? So if two channels are on the same transponder, say BBC 1 & BBC 2, i can only watch or record but not both? Is this why you originally mentioned using an 8 port lnb?

When you say your i7 could not play due to no hardware acceleration, sorry but does this mean no graphics card?
I was trying to find devices to play 4k and isnt a whole lot of options but something like the nvidia shield may do the trick.
What happens to your pi then if you tried to play a 4k file? Can it not play the file at all? Does this mean that if i want to play 4k files, all my devices need to be able to handle 4k, even though the tv will only take hd?

Johnboy1951

matrat wrote: »

Regarding the sat tuners, i am a little confused. When you say all 4 are tuned to different transponders, does this mean that only one source is available for each? So if two channels are on the same transponder, say BBC 1 & BBC 2, i can only watch or record but not both? Is this why you originally mentioned using an 8 port lnb?

Each tuner is tuned to a transponder, so all channels on each tuned transponder are available to view and/or record simultaneously.

My initial Octo LNB suggestion was to allow a lot more individual users while still being able to record from other transponders.
You will most likely be fine with a quad .... 99.99% of the time anyway, and then there are +1 channels and other means such as catch up etc

When you say your i7 could not play due to no hardware acceleration, sorry but does this mean no graphics card?

No separate graphics card - graphics card is on CPU die.

I was trying to find devices to play 4k and isnt a whole lot of options but something like the nvidia shield may do the trick.
What happens to your pi then if you tried to play a 4k file? Can it not play the file at all? Does this mean that if i want to play 4k files, all my devices need to be able to handle 4k, even though the tv will only take hd?

I tried the Astra UHD test channel on the Pi 2.
It is not capable of playing due to hardware limitations.
It did shows a blank screen and played the audio ..... so it tried.

I also tried that channel using a NUC (a few years old) and that tried but the play was jumpy and CPU went to 100%.
Again obviously no hardware acceleration for the format used in the stream.

I got two sample files and one could be played, the other not. The one that failed was in HEVC and the other AVC.

Transcoding on my backend would max out the old CPU, but it will do it. Tvheadend can be set to transcode as it records. I never use it as I never have to deal with UHD channels.

matrat

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Each tuner is tuned to a transponder, so all channels on each tuned transponder are available to view and/or record simultaneously.

My initial Octo LNB suggestion was to allow a lot more individual users while still being able to record from other transponders.
You will most likely be fine with a quad .... 99.99% of the time anyway, and then there are +1 channels and other means such as catch up etc



No separate graphics card - graphics card is on CPU die.



I tried the Astra UHD test channel on the Pi 2.
It is not capable of playing due to hardware limitations.
It did shows a blank screen and played the audio ..... so it tried.

I also tried that channel using a NUC (a few years old) and that tried but the play was jumpy and CPU went to 100%.
Again obviously no hardware acceleration for the format used in the stream.

I got two sample files and one could be played, the other not. The one that failed was in HEVC and the other AVC.

Transcoding on my backend would max out the old CPU, but it will do it. Tvheadend can be set to transcode as it records. I never use it as I never have to deal with UHD channels.

Ok.

I had a look at the XTi-3340 from one your above links, looks like a good solution for me. I could plug it in at current tv point and connect two sat cables and aerial to it and connect it back into the lan. That way i wouldn't have to bring in any new cables at all. And from what i can read it would allow me to do as much simultaneous watching and recording as i want. Does that sound good to you?

As far as the 4k issue, i think I still need to do some research on the setup and tv devices. If i have 4k files on the server and i try play them, will a pi play them at all even if the tv is only hd? Or will i need to have all my tv devices capable of 4k playback since the content is?

Johnboy1951

matrat wrote: »

Ok.

I had a look at the XTi-3340 from one your above links, looks like a good solution for me. I could plug it in at current tv point and connect two sat cables and aerial to it and connect it back into the lan. That way i wouldn't have to bring in any new cables at all. And from what i can read it would allow me to do as much simultaneous watching and recording as i want. Does that sound good to you?

Some information about that receiver in this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102425952#post102425952

As far as the 4k issue, i think I still need to do some research on the setup and tv devices. If i have 4k files on the server and i try play them, will a pi play them at all even if the tv is only hd? Or will i need to have all my tv devices capable of 4k playback since the content is?

IMO you will need to have 4K capable client devices to play 4K files.

As far as I was aware you could not play 4K content using a R-Pi ...... but this thread implies it could be done but not well with a R-Pi 3.
http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/44089/can-raspberry-pi-3-do-4k-video
I would consider something more capable for playing 4K.

There are other small devices available which are 4K capable, such as recent NUCs, GIGABYTE BRIX and probably android devices.

Hope that helps a bit. I have no experience of Android devices so maybe someone else can chip in about those.

.

matrat

Thanks again Johnboy, 
Read a bit on that box last night, gets mixed reviews, hard to know if that would be better than two good tuner cards. The dish cables currently come in behind a stud wall and drop to the suspended ceiling so have no access to them except behind tv and dont want to put the server there for obvious reasons. So means drilling in multiple new cables from dish but would rather do that than have a box that has issues. Will do more research and see. The flat dish thing that takes in a single cat 6 cable would be good but seem pricey.
Yeah i will do more research around the 4k thing too. Looking forward to getting it all set up and working, be a big change from sky but wont have the nice bill every month so im sure i can live without it!!

Johnboy1951

I thought that SelfSat flat panel was a very reasonable price.
It does not of course include the DVB-T tuners which is its only draw-back on paper.
If you consider the cost of the tuner card - like this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TBS6904-DVB-S2-Quad-Tuner-PCIe-Card-four-tuners-for-watching-and-recording-on-PC-/231749173250
and the cost of LNB, Sat dish etc it seems to me that the SelfSat is very well priced for what it provides.

Unfortunately I know nothing about them in use ..... but if they are as good in practice as on paper ......

Oh yes I came across this today which I thought might interest you

HDMI v1.4 has a max. data transfer rate of 10.2Gb/s.
This translates to 4K images at 24 FPS.
HDMI v2.0 has a max. data transfer rate of 18Gb/s.
This translates to 4K images at 60 FPS.

It seems there is more to viewing 4K content than I thought.

EDIT: I meant to add that the latest series of Intel CPUs ( Kaby Lake) with on die graphics are capable of doing hardware accelerated 4K.

Johnboy1951

I have been looking about for 4K streaming boxes, and the WeTek boxes seem to hit a lot of the requirements.

https://wetek.com/shop

They have a relationship with LibreElec so it should be plug in and go with that installed.

matrat

Thanks Johnboy, 
Again this is all a great help!!
Yeah looks like you are right about the panel V the cost of tuners, lnb etc. The fact i have 3 sat cables already in the house with an aerial connect all in one place at the tv, then the box may be best fit. I assume i could connect this back into LAN then and use the software on the server to view etc and not the software on the box. This would negate any issues on the box by not using its software. Just use it for its physical properties of converting and combining dvb-s and t to a ip signal. I like the idea of not having to bring in new cables from outside and having cables as currently configured for the future incase i decide to go back to sky.
Yeah the wetek units look nice and reasonably priced for spec as opposed to a shield for example. Will look into them this evening. 
Thanks again for all your help, your input this last day or so has probably saved me about a week researching on the net lol!!

Johnboy1951

matrat wrote: »

Thanks Johnboy, 
Again this is all a great help!!
Yeah looks like you are right about the panel V the cost of tuners, lnb etc. The fact i have 3 sat cables already in the house with an aerial connect all in one place at the tv, then the box may be best fit. I assume i could connect this back into LAN then and use the software on the server to view etc and not the software on the box. This would negate any issues on the box by not using its software. Just use it for its physical properties of converting and combining dvb-s and t to a ip signal. I like the idea of not having to bring in new cables from outside and having cables as currently configured for the future incase i decide to go back to sky.
Yeah the wetek units look nice and reasonably priced for spec as opposed to a shield for example. Will look into them this evening. 
Thanks again for all your help, your input this last day or so has probably saved me about a week researching on the net lol!!

I think you would probably be best served to go for something like that Vbox XTi 3340 ...... be aware there are other such devices out there which might suit you better.
Search for Sat>IP Server and also Sat>IP Gateway to find similar devices. In truth a lot of the devices you find will be commercial rather than home boxes, but you should get a 'feel' for what is out there.

Yes, at least at this time you are as well to use the existing cables.
Should you decide later that you will stick to FTA Satellite plus other means and want to extend that, then you can look to maybe using the attic for the receiver devices, and you will already have Cat6 cable in place to connect into your distribution point in the media press.

###
In my own case, I have been having some problems with the layout of my chosen media press/distribution point (centre of house), mostly because of all the device I wanted to fit in.
I have now decided on splitting the receiver devices from the distribution point, because of the coax cabling, and the future difficulty in re-running coax. I will move them to a gable wall for convenience. I will then run ethernet cable from the receivers to the distribution point, solving both my problems ...... space in media press and difficulty in running coax, or changing to a new technology for the receivers in the future.
###

This thread has helped me make the decision and change the plan slightly. So thanks to you for causing me to re-think things and find an alternate.

matrat

Sounds good Johnboy,

Yeah i think i am going to start pricing and specing up the kit.

I assume then that the vbox handles all distribution of the freeview and fta tv etc and will handle the recording etc? I just point it to store the recorded content on the server? Or possibly to a ext HD which backs up to server at say 6am if there was any bandwidth issues. So if it handles that work, my server really is doing very little? Is this correct?

Another question but maybe this is the wrong place, do you know what advantages/disadvantages of using an os like you are on a server as opposed to something like freenas? I have no exp with either, just wondering from a functional point of view. Or is it just the case that you add programs to setup and maintain raid etc on your os which come built into freenas?

Johnboy1951

matrat wrote: »

Sounds good Johnboy,

Yeah i think i am going to start pricing and specing up the kit.

I assume then that the vbox handles all distribution of the freeview and fta tv etc and will handle the recording etc? I just point it to store the recorded content on the server? Or possibly to a ext HD which backs up to server at say 6am if there was any bandwidth issues. So if it handles that work, my server really is doing very little? Is this correct?

I would expect not.
I would expect the client devices to mount remote devices and direct recording to them/it, and also to be able to search that storage for playback of stored video.

I believe the Vbox only makes the channels available on the LAN, what you do with them or manage them is done elsewhere.

Another question but maybe this is the wrong place, do you know what advantages/disadvantages of using an os like you are on a server as opposed to something like freenas? I have no exp with either, just wondering from a functional point of view. Or is it just the case that you add programs to setup and maintain raid etc on your os which come built into freenas?

Because all I am using my backend for is tuners and storage of recordings, then the lowest spec (P4) machine with the most stripped out OS is the most suitable for my needs.
I have a separate server, which as I mentioned, I now rarely even turn on, as my long term storage requirements are reduced considerably.
So I use an OS specifically built for the purpose of being a media centre on the backend, and not a server OS or full OS with all the bells & whistles which would never be used.
It means the backend can be low resource CPU with low RAM (the OS taking about 300MBs).

I started out with more heavy duty hardware, but changed it over the last couple of years, as an experiment which has remained in place.

My dad was fond of saying when he repaired something .....
I'll do a temporary job ..... and after 10 years it will be permanent!

matrat

Haha, very good, il use that one.

Ok, i will need to read that vbox forum again as i though the owner was using it s onboard software to watch tv. Only difference being suppose that i would install tvheadend or equivalent on the server to handle it. Which may be a more robust and uniform approach anyways. Maybe the onboard software only outputs to the actual HDMI on the unit.

Yeah i must have a read on the NAS os's and see what, if any, benefits they would offer. Dont think i will ever go use it for much else than just the media store and i am not really event worried about getting the content to phones or tablet as never would use a phone to watch content when have the tvs.

Johnboy1951

matrat wrote: »

Haha, very good, il use that one.

Ok, i will need to read that vbox forum again as i though the owner was using it s onboard software to watch tv. Only difference being suppose that i would install tvheadend or equivalent on the server to handle it. Which may be a more robust and uniform approach anyways. Maybe the onboard software only outputs to the actual HDMI on the unit.

Its likely I have misinterpreted the boxes capabilities.
Maybe a post in that thread I linked to would get more info from the user.

Yeah i must have a read on the NAS os's and see what, if any, benefits they would offer. Dont think i will ever go use it for much else than just the media store and i am not really event worried about getting the content to phones or tablet as never would use a phone to watch content when have the tvs.

You might be surprised about using tablet, laptop or phone for viewing. I thought NEVER not so long ago, but find at times I do ..... even if only temporarily until I can get to the TV.

If you really have need for large storage space for files, not just media, and maybe transcoding, ripping or such, then I guess a server or NAS, might be needed.
The NAS boxes I looked at years ago were a bit light on resources for me at the time, hence I ended up with an i3 server.

matrat

Will do that thanks.

I will build whatever is best, i dont think anything off the shelf really suits my needs. Originally i thought about combining a HTPC and NAS into one unit under the tv and having devices at other tvs, but the idea of having the always on box under that tv isnt very appealing and if a HTPC can be replaced by a much cheaper 4K capable playback device like the WeTek/NUC/Shield etc. then i would think it will be a more efficient setup and have a better user experience. The server then can be built with much lower spec as doesnt handle anything except distribution and possibly the live tv handling. Any solution will have its costs but not going to save any money by building an incapable system and resorting to sky etc and turning it into a dust collector. Storage requirement i think would be around 6tb. I keep thinking about raid and that i will have any very personal data backed up in at least one place, but i keep thinking that if i lose all the media, at that point in time, the cost fo 2 extra 3tb drives may seem very good value.

Johnboy1951

matrat wrote: »

Will do that thanks.

I will build whatever is best, i dont think anything off the shelf really suits my needs. Originally i thought about combining a HTPC and NAS into one unit under the tv and having devices at other tvs, but the idea of having the always on box under that tv isnt very appealing and if a HTPC can be replaced by a much cheaper 4K capable playback device like the WeTek/NUC/Shield etc. then i would think it will be a more efficient setup and have a better user experience. The server then can be built with much lower spec as doesnt handle anything except distribution and possibly the live tv handling. Any solution will have its costs but not going to save any money by building an incapable system and resorting to sky etc and turning it into a dust collector. Storage requirement i think would be around 6tb. I keep thinking about raid and that i will have any very personal data backed up in at least one place, but i keep thinking that if i lose all the media, at that point in time, the cost fo 2 extra 3tb drives may seem very good value.

It really depends on how much you value your stored media.
At one time I had great value on mine, but now I reckon I could do without the semi-permanent storage, and just have sufficient for recordings awaiting viewing, as well as a few specific videos such as home movies etc.
So whatever suits your situation .... we all have different priorities

Nelbert

Sorry if you've covered this already but I'm doing this myself at the moment. Have Soarview working fine. Likely going to get the below and have it feed into my tvheadend server and share it out from there. Bit cheaper than similar sat>IP devices I've looked into and quad would be enough for my (and most people in a small household) purposes.

Tvheadend is surprisingly easy to setup. Streaming to phones and tablets works well but my NAS is underpowered for transcoding as is needed for outside the house streaming. If building your own NAS just make sure you're CPU or GPU supports hardware acceleration and you'll be fine.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00AAWI23K/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=PV2O09PMO29H&coliid=I24VQVFMNQLWNX

matrat

Thanks for the recommendation Nelbert, it may indeed be a good option, however i would also need to get a dvb-t to lan device also but can look into that too.

captain_boycott

Blackgold make an excellent combined DVB-S and DVB-T tuner card.

http://www.blackgold.tv/product/bgt3602/

Ideal for handling multiple concurrent streams from FreeSat and Saorview when combined with something like Mediaportal on the backend, and Kodi for client side...

matrat

Thanks captain_boycott,

I currently dont have the cables in the same place as i would like to put the NAS so looking into the sat>ip solution at the moment, but will def keep this one in mind if i change plan

Johnboy1951

captain_boycott wrote: »

Blackgold make an excellent combined DVB-S and DVB-T tuner card.

http://www.blackgold.tv/product/bgt3602/

Ideal for handling multiple concurrent streams from FreeSat and Saorview when combined with something like Mediaportal on the backend, and Kodi for client side...

I had wanted to buy those originally but they did not have Linux drivers released, so declined as that is a hugely limiting factor when considering a HTPC.

I believe they have since released Linux drivers, but as they are not open they are not included in the likes of Libreelec.

I have been happy with the TBS cards for which there are now open source drivers as well as the proprietary drivers.

captain_boycott

I've long since abandoned Linux - life's too short!

Using BG card with Win7/mediaportal over 2 years now and no issues. Plus the BG is as good a price you'll get for a combined T2/S2 card.

Johnboy1951

captain_boycott wrote: »

I've long since abandoned Linux - life's too short!

Using BG card with Win7/mediaportal over 2 years now and no issues. Plus the BG is as good a price you'll get for a combined T2/S2 card.

I have long since abandoned Windows .... about 13 years ago ...... with no regrets.
Life is too short!

Yes the BG card is cheaper ...... and there are others that are cheaper again ...... some even half the price.

Cheaper is not always better

captain_boycott

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes the BG card is cheaper ...... and there are others that are cheaper again ...... some even half the price.

QUOTE]

got any links to a cheaper dual S2 / T2 card?

Johnboy1951

captain_boycott wrote: »

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes the BG card is cheaper ...... and there are others that are cheaper again ...... some even half the price.

QUOTE]

got any links to a cheaper dual S2 / T2 card?

Nope. You searching for one?

captain_boycott

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

captain_boycott wrote: »

Nope. You searching for one?

yeah, I'd be interested in building more systems for family/friends. I'm often asked to set them up like I have, but of course they think its just a small kodi box under the Tv, they don't realise the HTPC that's upstairs driving it all. Most will have an old PC available to use, but the PC card is the main outlay after that.

Johnboy1951

captain_boycott wrote: »

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

yeah, I'd be interested in building more systems for family/friends. I'm often asked to set them up like I have, but of course they think its just a small kodi box under the Tv, they don't realise the HTPC that's upstairs driving it all. Most will have an old PC available to use, but the PC card is the main outlay after that.

If I come across something that might suit in the near future I will let you know.