Changes to Kilkenny/Waterford county boundaries

blackcard

The land and people are in Kilkenny. Waterford can go to hell before they can take over a square inch. Any political party that supports this land grab will sign its own death warrant in Kilkenny. How would Waterford like if their land was taken.

Stheno

blackcard wrote: »

The land and people are in Kilkenny. Waterford can go to hell before they can take over a square inch. Any political party that supports this land grab will sign its own death warrant in Kilkenny. How would Waterford like if their land was taken.

Could you expand on your point or provide a link to what you are taking about please?

blackcard

Stheno wrote: »

Could you expand on your point or provide a link to what you are taking about please?

This is in relation to over 5000 people now in Kilkenny being told that they will be in Waterford if the report of the Boundary Commission is adopted.A large tract of land is to be transferred.

Stheno

blackcard wrote: »

This is in relation to over 5000 people now in Kilkenny being told that they will be in Waterford if the report of the Boundary Commission is adopted.A large tract of land is to be transferred.

Hmm I'm not sure it belongs here, probably better in the Kilkenny forum, so I'm going to move it there.

The J Stands for Jay

blackcard wrote: »

This is in relation to over 5000 people now in Kilkenny being told that they will be in Waterford if the report of the Boundary Commission is adopted.A large tract of land is to be transferred.

May I ask why anyone would care?

Technoprisoner

Ahh we are going back to the days of plantations .... damn those Brits

blackcard

McGaggs wrote: »

May I ask why anyone would care?

Have you ever been at an inter county gaa game. You will see people that care.

road_high

blackcard wrote: »

Have you ever been at an inter county gaa game. You will see people that care.

GAA is only a very tiny part of it. For me, county is integral to Irish identity and an attempt to weaken and undermine in this sneaky, petty manner is grossly insulting.
We aren't going to take this lying down.

blackcard

McGaggs wrote: »

May I ask why anyone would care?

So you wouldn't care if your neighbour decided he was going to take over some of your property?

BabyWillis

But no one is taking your property, your address just changes from kilkenny to waterford.

blackcard

BabyWillis wrote: »

But no one is taking your property, your address just changes from kilkenny to waterford.

So you wouldn't mind being English as long as you held onto your property?

BabyWillis

I'm part of the Carlow laois review and to be honest it would make sense for graiguecullen to be part of Carlow. No big deal really.

blackcard

BabyWillis wrote: »

I'm part of the Carlow laois review and to be honest it would make sense for graiguecullen to be part of Carlow. No big deal really.

It is a big deal. There were over 19000 submissions to the Boundary Commission. Only 29 of these were in favour of moving the boundary. The Commission acknowledged that the vast majority of affected people did not want change and that their county identity was the most important issue. Maybe Carlow and Laois people are different and don't mind what county they belong to

mickmackmcgoo

blackcard wrote:

So you wouldn't mind being English as long as you held onto your property?

Are you living in the area that's proposed to be rezoned?

Harry Palmr

blackcard wrote: »

It is a big deal. There were over 19000 submissions to the Boundary Commission. Only 29 of these were in favour of moving the boundary. The Commission acknowledged that the vast majority of affected people did not want change and that their county identity was the most important issue. Maybe Carlow and Laois people are different and don't mind what county they belong to

And most of them were if we apply some logic from well up the county and for whom this change (should is happen) would have no practical effect at all.

When you look at the recommendation you'll see that it involves people who are already in Waterford to work, get educated, be entertained, looked after (or of Waterford by birth and who moved across) or do the sick of that 3 KMs between Ferrybank and Slieverue get rushed to Kilkenny General?

blackcard

Harry Palmr wrote: »

And most of them were if we apply some logic from well up the county and for whom this change (should is happen) would have no practical effect at all.

When you look at the recommendation you'll see that it involves people who are already in Waterford to work, get educated, be entertained, looked after (or of Waterford by birth and who moved across) or do the sick of that 3 KMs between Ferrybank and Slieverue get rushed to Kilkenny General?

The majority of people in the area want it to remain in County Kilkenny. The argument about hospitals is pathetic. Loads of people living near borders go to hospitals in another county. That doesn' t mean that they should transfer to that county.

Pinch Flat

I'm sure any people from Kilkenny who are offended enough are going to vote with their feet and relinquish their employment in Waterford.

cbreeze

I can understand that people on both sides of the border would be annoyed. TDs and Councillors will be getting seriously strong representations from constituents. If you have grown up all your life a Kilkenny person or a person from any other county and one day, you are told you are a person of a different county. Its a whole identity issue, irrespective of GAA and elections.

Keep Kilkenny whole. I support the resistance!

blackcard

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I'm sure any people from Kilkenny who are offended enough are going to vote with their feet and relinquish their employment in Waterford.

People from the affected areas can buy a house in Waterford if they want to. Because people from Meath and Kildare work in Dublin, can Dublin take over part of these counties?

Mulbert

Are you saying 19000 different people wrote a submission to the boundary commission about this? I don't think so! That's taking for granted that there are 19000 literate people in County Kilkenny.

Gaspode

OK lets keep it civil please, less of the generalisations & slurs. Stick to the topic at hand

The J Stands for Jay

blackcard wrote: »

So you wouldn't care if your neighbour decided he was going to take over some of your property?

Isn't it more a case of your neighbour telling you your house is no longer number 5, it's now number 8?

Squidvicious

As someone who is from the affected area, I'm worried about this. However, I don't think that this is gong to happen. FF have already said that they'll vote against it in the Dail and it needs a Dail vote to be passed. I just don't see a controversial bill like this even being put before the Dail given the current arithmetic in Leinster House, let alone passing.

That said, we shouldn't ignore the threat. I appreciate that there may be some Kilkenny people who feel, who cares, isn't that whole area more or less Waterford anyway? A big problem for Kilkenny, however, is that if the commission's proposal goes ahead, Kilkenny will lose a large chunk of commercial rates revenue(mainly from the port which is included within the area to be transferred). So that will mean either reduced services for Kilkenny in the future or higher local taxes. The move is nothing more than an attempt by Waterford to take over the cash cow that is Belview port. No Kilkenny person should take this lying down.

We've had one or two people here saying what difference does it make. Where you're from matters to most of us. If you meet a stranger, it's one of the first questions that you're asked - where are you from? For most of us, it's part of our identity and I don't like that being taken away at the stroke of a bureaucrats pen.

Yourself isit

Squidvicious wrote: »

As someone who is from the affected area, I'm worried about this. However, I don't think that this is gong to happen. FF have already said that they'll vote against it in the Dail and it needs a Dail vote to be passed. I just don't see a controversial bill like this even being put before the Dail given the current arithmetic in Leinster House, let alone passing.

That said, we shouldn't ignore the threat. I appreciate that there may be some Kilkenny people who feel, who cares, isn't that whole area more or less Waterford anyway? A big problem for Kilkenny, however, is that if the commission's proposal goes ahead, Kilkenny will lose a large chunk of commercial rates revenue(mainly from the port which is included within the area to be transferred). So that will mean either reduced services for Kilkenny in the future or higher local taxes. The move is nothing more than an attempt by Waterford to take over the cash cow that is Belview port. No Kilkenny person should take this lying down.

We've had one or two people here saying what difference does it make. Where you're from matters to most of us. If you meet a stranger, it's one of the first questions that you're asked - where are you from? For most of us, it's part of our identity and I don't like that being taken away at the stroke of a bureaucrats pen.

If you are in the affected area why would you care about revenues going to kilkenny since you will be in Waterford?

Squidvicious

McGaggs wrote: »

Isn't it more a case of your neighbour telling you your house is no longer number 5, it's now number 8?

No it's not, and I assume that you're having a laugh. Or else you really don't understand Ireland very well.

Squidvicious

Yourself isit wrote: »

If you are in the affected area why would you care about revenues going to kilkenny since you will be in Waterford?

My biggest issue with it is that I don't want my area to be transferred to Waterford. Some in Kilkenny might think that the move doesn't affect them. I'm pointing out that it's an issue which affects all of the county and not just the affected area.

granturismo

Squidvicious wrote: »

..... The move is nothing more than an attempt by Waterford to take over the cash cow that is Belview port. No Kilkenny person should take this lying down..

Is Belview not to remain in Co Kilkenny under the review? I still dont agree with the proposed boundary change.

road_high

Harry Palmr wrote: »

And most of them were if we apply some logic from well up the county and for whom this change (should is happen) would have no practical effect at all.

When you look at the recommendation you'll see that it involves people who are already in Waterford to work, get educated, be entertained, looked after (or of Waterford by birth and who moved across) or do the sick of that 3 KMs between Ferrybank and Slieverue get rushed to Kilkenny General?

Isn't this what a "city" is supposed to do?
And these are government services, provided for the whole area not just "Waterford". That's why they are there. This is exactly the parochial and condescending attitude I have seen over and over re this area and Kilkenny in general.
And if it's to have "no practical effect at all." why do it at all? Are you admitting then what it really is, a territory marking exercise.

road_high

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I'm sure any people from Kilkenny who are offended enough are going to vote with their feet and relinquish their employment in Waterford.

What ridiculous petty sh!te! Any employer worth its salt employs the very best staff they can get- in terms of skills, education and aptitude. Just because so many of them happen to live and come from Kilkenny is an employer doing exactly that, they clearly can't get what they want in the immediate vicinity.

road_high

granturismo wrote: »

Is Belview not to remain in Co Kilkenny under the review? I still dont agree with the proposed boundary change.

It's all remaining. This ain't happening regardless of how big Coveney's new found horn for Waterford gets.

Yourself isit

Squidvicious wrote: »

My biggest issue with it is that I don't want my area to be transferred to Waterford. Some in Kilkenny might think that the move doesn't affect them. I'm pointing out that it's an issue which affects all of the county and not just the affected area.

The larger revenue from there is because it's close to Waterford city right?

blue note

Squidvicious wrote: »

A big problem for Kilkenny, however, is that if the commission's proposal goes ahead, Kilkenny will lose a large chunk of commercial rates revenue(mainly from the port which is included within the area to be transferred). So that will mean either reduced services for Kilkenny in the future or higher local taxes. The move is nothing more than an attempt by Waterford to take over the cash cow that is Belview port. No Kilkenny person should take this lying down.

Just to correct you on that, the report is not recommending extending the boundary to include the Port of Waterford in Waterford.

B. The Committee recommends a Boundary Extension of Waterford County into
Kilkenny County Council to include the area proximate to the suburban area in
Ferrybank. It has chosen to recommend the designation of a new Boundary
between the Authorities that will move the entire Electoral Area of
Kilculliheen and those parts of the Electoral Areas of Aglish and Dunkitt
contained within the Area of Interest that lie south of the of the N25 bypass to
the control of Waterford Council. This revision would have the effect of
retaining the entire Electoral Area of Rathpatrick to the east in county
Kilkenny, thereby retaining the village of Slieverue and the port at Belview and
its hinterland in that county. The Boundary as recommended follows those
electoral area boundaries that follow the line of an existing stream, a minor
tributary of the Suir.

road_high

Yourself isit wrote: »

The larger revenue from there is because it's close to Waterford city right?

And your point is? This is not even about revenue at all for us, I couldn't care less if the area in question supports itself or not. The issue is the integrity of Co. Kilkenny as a rightful unit.

KT Blotter

Mile High wrote:

The issue is the integrity of Co. Kilkenny as a rightful unit.

I saw a map which showed that Kilculliheen was part of Waterford a hundred years ago.

I think the report is a good compromise.

The report says Belview port and its "cash-cow" rates and Slieverue stay in Kilkenny as they always have been and Ferrybank and Kilculliheen move to Waterford which let's face it is part of Waterford City now anyway.

If it helps the people in Ferrybank to get more services and not have to travel 50km to Kilkenny City to pay their car tax or do jury duty when they can literally walk across a bridge to do it how could we be against that? It makes total sense to me.

Squidvicious

blue note wrote: »

Just to correct you on that, the report is not recommending extending the boundary to include the Port of Waterford in Waterford.

Fair enough, my mistake. I'm still against it, though!

KT Blotter

Here's a link to the map I was talking about - i.imgur.com/rgztRdQ.jpg

All the fuss is about less than 1% of Kilkenny which is already part of Waterford in all reality (and has been in the past) - I just don't get it?

Yourself isit

Makes sense that what is effectively the outskirts of Waterford city be extended into Waterford county. Why? Because Waterford is more likely to provide the transport and other services needed. Other option is to extend the city but not the county.

Cabaal

blackcard wrote: »

It is a big deal. There were over 19000 submissions to the Boundary Commission. Only 29 of these were in favour of moving the boundary. The Commission acknowledged that the vast majority of affected people did not want change and that their county identity was the most important issue. Maybe Carlow and Laois people are different and don't mind what county they belong to

19k submissions from 5k effected people, that's amazing.

They people effected by the change should have a say, outside that somebody in say Thomastown claiming this change will ripp a community apart is talking out their backside.
So the vast majority of these submissions are from people that such a change will have no impact on.

Members if FF claiming its an "act of war" are a ting like children as they are adding nothing constructive to the issue.

Cabaal

Squidvicious wrote: »

Fair enough, my mistake. I'm still against it, though!

So you're against it because?

catbear

FF are trying to win back a youth vote from SF. They'll say anything and votes and then line another generation up for betrayal.

road_high

KT Blotter wrote: »

I saw a map which showed that Kilculliheen was part of Waterford a hundred years ago.

I think the report is a good compromise.

The report says Belview port and its "cash-cow" rates and Slieverue stay in Kilkenny as they always have been and Ferrybank and Kilculliheen move to Waterford which let's face it is part of Waterford City now anyway.

If it helps the people in Ferrybank to get more services and not have to travel 50km to Kilkenny City to pay their car tax or do jury duty when they can literally walk across a bridge to do it how could we be against that? It makes total sense to me.

It's 2017- who tf actually does this? Sounds like a great reason argument alright, should the people of Gorey secede from Wexford because they have to travel 50km down to Wexford for something also?
The report is utter tripe, driven by sliveen stroke politics (the so called Commission was et up by, guess who, a Waterford td Mr. Coffey)- it was set up to deliver the answer he wanted.

road_high

KT Blotter wrote: »

Here's a link to the map I was talking about - i.imgur.com/rgztRdQ.jpg

All the fuss is about less than 1% of Kilkenny which is already part of Waterford in all reality (and has been in the past) - I just don't get it?

Probably because you have an in built bias alright and are not interested in the "other" side. Nice 1st posts btw.

Squidvicious

Cabaal wrote: »

So you're against it because?

Because, I see it bringing no benefit either to me or to my immediate neighbours nor do I see it being of any benefit to Waterford either for that matter. I want where I live to remain part of Co. Kilkenny.

road_high

Squidvicious wrote: »

Because, I see it bringing no benefit either to me or to my immediate neighbours nor do I see it being of any benefit to Waterford either for that matter. I want where I live to remain part of Co. Kilkenny.

That's because there isn't one.

KT Blotter

Road High wrote:

It's 2017- who tf actually does this? Sounds like a great reason argument alright, should the people of Gorey secede from Wexford because they have to travel 50km down to Wexford for something also?
The report is utter tripe, driven by sliveen stroke politics (the so called Commission was et up by, guess who, a Waterford td Mr. Coffey)- it was set up to deliver the answer he wanted.

I don't get your Gorey example? It's not like Gorey is a part of "Wicklow City"?

I also don't get why it's a good idea to have people travelling 50km to do jury duty, pay their car tax and do their council business when the same service is within walking distance?

I read the report and the report said the current situation is a nuisance and even called it irrational.

It also said that waterford council is already providing the social housing in the kilkenny ferrybank area - sure if that's true then isn't it already waterford for all the world?

I'm all for county pride, but not if it means daft stuff is happening- it should be about helping the people living there.

Squidvicious

KT Blotter wrote: »

I don't get your Gorey example? It's not like Gorey is a part of "Wicklow City"?

I also don't get why it's a good idea to have people travelling 50km to do jury duty, pay their car tax and do their council business when the same service is within walking distance?

I read the report and the report said the current situation is a nuisance and even called it irrational.

It also said that waterford council is already providing the social housing in the kilkenny ferrybank area - sure if that's true then isn't it already waterford for all the world?

I'm all for county pride, but not if it means daft stuff is happening- it should be about helping the people living there.

Personally, I've never found any difficulty and I live there. Car tax can be paid online and I very rarely need to go to the Council offices. If convenience is the only factor, then why only move the boundary a mile or so? The ultimate logic of "ah shure, isn't it all more or less Waterford already" would be to move the boundary to somewhere near Mullinavat and Mooncoin given that most people South of that line work and shop in Waterford City for the most part. On any practical level, the boundary move will be no improvement to my life or the life of the people living around me.

road_high

Squidvicious wrote: »

Personally, I've never found any difficulty and I live there. Car tax can be paid online and I very rarely need to go to the Council offices. If convenience is the only factor, then why only move the boundary a mile or so? The ultimate logic of "ah shure, isn't it all more or less Waterford already" would be to move the boundary to somewhere near Mullinavat and Mooncoin given that most people South of that line work and shop in Waterford City for the most part. On any practical level, the boundary move will be no improvement to my life or the life of the people living around me.

Actually Waterford have said they'd close the local area offices in Ferrybank so therefore services would be even further away "from the people". So so much for bringing things closer.

road_high

KT Blotter wrote: »

I don't get your Gorey example? It's not like Gorey is a part of "Wicklow City"?

I also don't get why it's a good idea to have people travelling 50km to do jury duty, pay their car tax and do their council business when the same service is within walking distance?

I read the report and the report said the current situation is a nuisance and even called it irrational.

It also said that waterford council is already providing the social housing in the kilkenny ferrybank area - sure if that's true then isn't it already waterford for all the world?

I'm all for county pride, but not if it means daft stuff is happening- it should be about helping the people living there.

Oh social housing, please yes dump even more of your social problems on the people of south Kilkenny! I'm sure they'll be delighted to see that as part of your "vision" for the area!

How often do you travel for jury duty? - also what if someone west of Dungarvan had to do the same- by your "logic"they should be part of cork! Jury duty is a very rare event and how that should mean changing county boundaries just boggles my mind. There's a new fantastic motorway now meaning south Kilkenny is more accessible and easier than ever.

As said numerous times, there's many ways of paying car tax these days. Changing county boundaries for something so incidental is again ridiculous. Actually, I think you should just be allowed pay it at any council or post office. All goes into the same pot anyhow and it's only once a year.

KT Blotter

Squidvicious wrote: »

Personally, I've never found any difficulty and I live there. Car tax can be paid online and I very rarely need to go to the Council offices. If convenience is the only factor, then why only move the boundary a mile or so? The ultimate logic of "ah shure, isn't it all more or less Waterford already" would be to move the boundary to somewhere near Mullinavat and Mooncoin given that most people South of that line work and shop in Waterford City for the most part. On any practical level, the boundary move will be no improvement to my life or the life of the people living around me. On any practical level, the boundary move will be no improvement to my life or the life of the people living around me.

That's why I said it was a compromise. They didn't extend it to Slieverue they said because of the history in the area.

When half of ferrybank is already in waterford and all of the area was in the waterford already and it's much more convenient for council services (for those who do use them) that's why I said it was a good idea.

What are your neighbours saying?

AMGer

blackcard wrote: »

This is in relation to over 5000 people now in Kilkenny being told that they will be in Waterford if the report of the Boundary Commission is adopted.A large tract of land is to be transferred.

Sure what harm - I imagine they're all employed in Waterford anyway May aswell have it on their address

Purple Mountain

How many square mileage are we talking here?