Second PIP, feeling somewhat bullied

celligraphy

I am currently on a second PIP , I am working in a call centre where in the month of november/ december we had to take over 40 calls a day , while keeping our admin time to under 2 minutes so I unfortunately rushed through calls,

I was pulled on not mentioning competitors, features of our products , building rapport , so I tried working on this while everyday before I finished work I would be pulled into the office to be reviewed on calls by my manager , his went on for a full month . feeling worse each time I left , having been told different things to change every time such as asking for an email for dpa and if i didn't i failed , not mentioning more than 3 features while on the phone, etc ... even though she said such and such ,

I am halfway through my second pip now , a week ago I felt fed up about it and most colleagues think she has it out for me , so I arranged a meeting with HR , HR manager was kind enough and said that favouritism is arising in the office and for me not to quit , as HR manager said "let her the manager win" and to keep fighting this , HR also disclosed that she had to stop hiring process with my manager as she was hiring all her children's friends only , so she put a stop to her interviewing any more employee's

Today I was told by my manager that I am not suited for the job that I fail every call and that I don't mention any features nor competitors, I honestly do in every call , but they want a disciplinary meeting for next week as to more or less fire me , I can bring a colleague in if needed

campo

Firstly bring someone in with you and secondly have they ever offered re-training.

Stheno

How long are you working there?

Mrs OBumble

Id guess your manager is on a PIP of her own, so its very foolish of her to be behaving in this way.

Will HR be at your meeting?

Its possible that they will act against your manager - but need her to screw up before they can do so.

LegacyUser

Its a huge bonus that hr have requested that you dont quit imo. Thats verbage that should not have entered the frame at all. Hr wouldnt really offer an opinion on the matter at all until they have met with both parties. The fact that they made that statement tells me that the manager has no credibility in the company and is probably in the crosshairs. Sit and wait. Id say you will do okay. And dont be afraid to stick up for yourself in the mean time and ensure these meetings with your manager are taking place during working hours and not after

Squatman

Its a huge bonus that hr have requested that you dont quit imo. Thats verbage that should not have entered the frame at all. Hr wouldnt really offer an opinion on the matter at all until they have met with both parties. The fact that they made that statement tells me that the manager has no credibility in the company and is probably in the crosshairs. Sit and wait. Id say you will do okay. And dont be afraid to stick up for yourself in the mean time and ensure these meetings with your manager are taking place during working hours and not after

Teyla Emmagan

You poor thing. This doesn't sound like the right way to manage an underperforming employee to me. You must be wrecked at this stage. Keep the head down, it sounds like she could be gone before you are.

celligraphy

The manager offered call listening and for me to have someone listen with me and for me to listen in on other colleagues , I'm gonna be blunt here and honestly don't see what I'm doing wrong , I say exactly what my fellow workers say , if even more as I ask for name number email and home phone number ,

She has made me cry most nights after leaving work , I love the rest of the work and people there but this manager makes it so hard , I see others who I had to call listen to , not mention competitors , features or anything and yet I'm pulled constantly.

I'm thinking about putting in a grievance procedure to hr, every work colleague thinks it's crazy how I keep failing

celligraphy

Working 6 months next week

celligraphy

Teyla Emmagan wrote:

You poor thing. This doesn't sound like the right way to manage an underperforming employee to me. You must be wrecked at this stage. Keep the head down, it sounds like she could be gone before you are.

I dont underperform that's the thing ! We work in commission, I'm the 3rd/4th highest every month out of a department of 50 , my HR is astounded on why I'm in trouble when I make the company money

Teyla Emmagan

Never mind call listening. Have you a script? If not can you get her to write down exactly what she wants you to say and just parrot it to get her off your back? Or ask her to assign someone (ELSE) to coach you and to report back on a weekly basis?

To be honest if your numbers are that good I don't know how she can have you on a PIP at all.

Would you take some time off? Get a doc's cert and go off for a week or two. Tell HR that the daily berating is too much for you and you feel you are being singled out for unfair and unnecessary treatment. That the stress is making you unwell etc (going home crying every night is for the birds), if you're not sick yet you will be soon.

It's hard to see how she can justify any of this to be honest.

Mrs OBumble

celligraphy wrote: »

I'm thinking about putting in a grievance procedure to hr, every work colleague thinks it's crazy how I keep failing

HR may well be praying that you do exactly that.

Stheno

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

HR may well be praying that you do exactly that.

Agreed, this happened me in one role where I had a manager who reduced other female employees to tears so much that the ladies toilets was referred to as the support block.

I did initiate a grievance procedure and he was disciplined.

triple nipple

HCL?

jimmycrackcorm

celligraphy wrote: »

I dont underperform that's the thing ! We work in commission, I'm the 3rd/4th highest every month out of a department of 50 , my HR is astounded on why I'm in trouble when I make the company money

I'd go back to HR, point this out to them and ask them to have a quiet word with the manager about their approach.

The interesting aspect is that you've said that that you are only working there 6 months which means your'e probably only in probation. In most cases that would mean you can be let go very easily. However given your stats then you can take action on being bullied at work. I think the combination of your stats and HR saying about about the managers hiring practices for friends justify them supporting you. Its also worth mentioning to HR that the managers assertion that you are not following practices that are supposedly being followed by other employees can be followed up because call centre calls are presumably recorded.

Even on probation you cannot be let go without just cause:

"Think that a dismissed employee whose short length of service prevents them from having the protection of the Unfair Dismissals Act has no other legal recourse? Think again!

Firstly, if the employee believes that they’ve been dismissed during the probationary period because the employer is discriminating against them, they can bring a complaint of discriminatory dismissal under equality legislation and such complaints can be referred to the Equality Tribunal. Here’s a guide from the Equality Authority on the relevant legislation – the Employment Equality Acts 1998-2011. You need to carefully consider all the facts before deciding to terminate a probationary employee’s contract.

...
attempting to dismiss an employee during their probationary period is not as straightforward as you might have initially suspected! If you do find yourself with a performance issue to address with such an employee, one guiding principle to bear in mind should be to treat the employee with respect at all times – that may dissuade them from taking action against your organisation. Remember – fair procedures and natural justice still need to apply."

Irish_Elect_Eng

A few months ago you posted about how good this job was and that you loved your managers, what changed? Was there a particular incident that changed the environment and your relationship with your manager?

celligraphy

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote:

A few months ago you posted about how good this job was and that you loved your managers, what changed? Was there a particular incident that changed the environment and your relationship with your manager?

I did I honestly did ! Until the first pip , after three weeks of my first pip , I started to realize that the manager was contradicting everything she said for me. So at a meeting with manager , I asked 'you said not to mention etc last week and now you 've said to mention it , and a few other things and I made manager get awful mad ,amager stating oh do you feel like I'm singling you out do you feel like I'm making this harsh , and I said yes kind of , and manager tried lying saying oh I never said you didn't have to say etc , when I Cleary seen her write bullet points that I couldn't say etc

And the manager is going through a divorce , so I'm not sure what happened but I'm throughly not liked since ,

Manager on a daily basis would ignore me , if I walked in to work , and other were in , manager would say hello to each individual person and than nothing to me , sounds stupid I know but it's building so much stress

I'm going doctor today , I called in sick ,

Wanderer78

What a truly dreadful environment to work in, start looking for another job, go out on sick certs if need be and if you can afford it. Best of luck

liketochat

thats a horrible situation to be in...I have seen the likes happen many times in working enviroment. Some people really should not be people Managers..they can cause considerable damage to an individuals health and self esteem,...dont like that you taking sick time - although i do understand why.....you are better than this manager so talk to HR again and i  would document every interaction you have had with Manager....all her comments dates and times etc....i believe in Karma...Bullies are always found out in the end...perhaps not this time but in time....believe in that and dont waste your time been impacted by someone as insignificant as that...if you believe you are doing a good job then you are...so keep doing that....Good Luck

liketochat

thats a horrible situation to be in...I have seen the likes happen many times in working enviroment. Some people really should not be people Managers..they can cause considerable damage to an individuals health and self esteem,...dont like that you taking sick time - although i do understand why.....you are better than this manager so talk to HR again and i  would document every interaction you have had with Manager....all her comments dates and times etc....i believe in Karma...Bullies are always found out in the end...perhaps not this time but in time....believe in that and dont waste your time been impacted by someone as insignificant as that...if you believe you are doing a good job then you are...so keep doing that....Good Luck

Thoie

liketochat wrote: »

i  would document every interaction you have had with Manager....all her comments dates and times etc..

I second this. If you have a meeting where she says "You need to say x, y and z, and not w", as soon as you get back to your desk send her an email with

"Hi boss,

As per our meeting at 10am today, I will say x,y and z on calls, and won't mention w. If you'd like anything else covered/avoided on calls, please don't hesitate to let me know."

Either she'll come back and say "you forgot v", or she won't respond at all. Either way, it helps cover your ass. If she replies with something else, you can add that to your script, and if she doesn't respond, but then later tries to say "you should have said v", you have the email record to share with HR, and can ask for them to compare the email record with the recorded calls.

celligraphy

I am trying to remember all my notes , and things that were said to being into my meeting next week , thanks for all the advice, I am not backing down to this , I work hard and efficiently and will not be undermined anymore especially when I happen to get praises from the other managers fingers crossed I get to keep my job

stargazer 68

celligraphy wrote: »

I am trying to remember all my notes , and things that were said to being into my meeting next week , thanks for all the advice, I am not backing down to this , I work hard and efficiently and will not be undermined anymore especially when I happen to get praises from the other managers fingers crossed I get to keep my job

Op I echo what Thoie said - get it in writing. We have a manager who will have a conversation with you and then deny point blank what she has said or agreed. We have all learned now to email it to her and get her reply - we learned the hard way!

razorblunt

+1 for writing, do you use email in work? You have to get this noted down as per each meeting, send her the notes afterwards advising her to reply if anything is incorrect or was omitted.

it's pretty strange that HR would comment on her in a "don't let her win" way, that's their job.

Take the sick day(s), clear your head then kill her with professionalism. Request a weekly follow up session with HR too if needed, ask for them to compare your calls to your peers.

mitresize5

If what you are saying is correct then you are being bullied, plan and simple.

Lodge a complaint.

celligraphy

Lodged a complaint with the overhead manager , she's wiped my pip clean and has started over again, my manager who was hassling me pulled me into the office again today to sign a form for the new pip that the overhead manager is making her do so , and overhead manager will be reviewing calls from now on .... She then said I'd you were unhappy with me you should if said it to me and not to the overhead manager , I just said ok and walked out ... She has been in a furious mood since I went for a meeting with the overhead manager. ... One the supervisors pulled me and said I'm getting my desk moved soon as my manager doesn't want me talking to other colleagues anymore

mitresize5

Great stuff. You've done the hard work now.

Make sure you are 100% by the book for the next few months

Thoie

celligraphy wrote: »

One the supervisors pulled me and said I'm getting my desk moved soon as my manager doesn't want me talking to other colleagues anymore

Presuming you haven't been badmouthing her, or being "negative" in front of other colleagues (if you have, stop it, they're colleagues, not friends), moving your desk looks like a continuation of bullying tactics - isolating you from the rest of your team etc. Keep taking notes, keep following up every conversation with an email confirmation, and keep an ear out for what's being said about you.

Squatman

well done celligraphy. Does seem like the bully tactics are still going, and to be honest, I'd strike while the iron is hot, and mention it to your manager, and, if nothing is done, mention it to the overhead manager 2 days later. he/she will have the work undone within the hour - IMO...

Edit. only if your desk is actually moved...

celligraphy

I'm just on the verge of walking away from this job , update all was going fine this week and 20 minutes before I finished work I was pulled into the office by manager and a co manager ,,,the manager started reviewing one of my calls , saying I failed it etc...and kept repeating do you understand what I'm saying , can you understand me.... At the end of the meeting I was In tears ....any seen me walk out crying and have now reported her treatment of me to the operations manager .... Manager isn't even supposed to be reviewing my calls anymore ,

davo10

Were the shortcomings they pointed out valid? The co manager was probably there to ensure that what was said was a ligitimate synopsis of your manager's issue with the call was.

celligraphy

Update !! Supervisor has confided to me that the manager is going through each call I get during the day and only picking the ones she finds "bad " to review ,thinking of visiting a solicitor tomorrow and taking it to a tribunal , I couldn't figure out for ages how I was failing every call she listened to

Stheno

celligraphy wrote: »

Update !! Supervisor has confided to me that the manager is going through each call I get during the day and only picking the ones she finds "bad " to review ,thinking of visiting a solicitor tomorrow and taking it to a tribunal , I couldn't figure out for ages how I was failing every call she listened to

If you are dealing with calls in a way that can be classed as "bad" you'd not have much chance in a tribunal/legal case if they used that as a defence for why you were on a pip etc.

Are you planning on suing them while you work there?

davo10

celligraphy wrote: »

Update !! Supervisor has confided to me that the manager is going through each call I get during the day and only picking the ones she finds "bad " to review ,thinking of visiting a solicitor tomorrow and taking it to a tribunal , I couldn't figure out for ages how I was failing every call she listened to

But the ones that are "bad" are the only ones she needs to talk to you about, as stheno posted, the calls are recorded and there as evidence. Are there performance issues with these calls? If there are, it undermines your case.

celligraphy

She's picking calls that would have nothing to do with my pip as in she's finding calls about let's say a tech issue and then I would pass it to a tech department and she has been failing me on such calls even though I have no way of fixing it , say a customer calls saying my WiFi isn't working and so I 'll say sorry to hear that one minute and I 'll pass you to a colleague , ... She then 'll review this and Mark it saying I didn't upsell etc.... When there is clearly no chance of doing so

Stheno

celligraphy wrote: »

She's picking calls that would have nothing to do with my pip as in she's finding calls about let's say a tech issue and then I would pass it to a tech department and she has been failing me on such calls even though I have no way of fixing it , say a customer calls saying my WiFi isn't working and so I 'll say sorry to hear that one minute and I 'll pass you to a colleague , ... She then 'll review this and Mark it saying I didn't upsell etc.... When there is clearly no chance of doing so

Well then I'd suggest that you escalate to the Operations manager/HR in that case.

vetinari

The manager definitely has it out for you at this point. Best to contact a solicitor regards this.
Still worth talking to the operations manager but you might find that managers might close ranks to protect each other in these cases.

celligraphy

Not back until next week I took a holiday week off due to stress , I'm going to call my solicitor tomorrow and explain which is sad as I really do love the work place in general

Stheno

celligraphy wrote: »

Not back until next week I took a holiday week off due to stress , I'm going to call my solicitor tomorrow and explain which is sad as I really do love the work place in general

What good exactly do you think contacting a solicitor will do you?

irishgirl19

Stheno wrote:

What good exactly do you think contacting a solicitor will do you?

Maybe communications workers union would be a better start. They can represent you in meetings.

Stheno

irishgirl19 wrote: »

Maybe communications workers union would be a better start. They can represent you in meetings.

Maybe the OPs company don't recognise unions?

celligraphy

Stheno wrote:

What good exactly do you think contacting a solicitor will do you?

Because I'm being unfaiy treated and maybe a solicitor getting in touch can give the manager a glimpse of how serious I am taking this if she doesn't stop that's why ... All I want is to be left do my job in peace , not being reviewed on calls that are not even supposed to be reviewed the manager is just looking for a way to fire me , even by means of making up her own rules

Stheno

celligraphy wrote: »

Because I'm being unfaiy treated and maybe a solicitor getting in touch can give the manager a glimpse of how serious I am taking this if she doesn't stop that's why ... All I want is to be left do my job in peace , not being reviewed on calls that are not even supposed to be reviewed the manager is just looking for a way to fire me , even by means of making up her own rules

Pointless imo.

You may end up leaving with a case for constructive dismissal, but for now you've not got much from a legal point of view.

irishgirl19

Stheno wrote:

Maybe the OPs company don't recognise unions?

She can still bring in a union rep with her to the meetings.

Eimee90

Have you approached HR again. Id be doing that before any solicitor

pilly

Have to be honest OP, solicitor will be absolutely no use to you in this situation. You're not there long enough. They could just let you go.

davo10

Unless your solicitor is knowledgeable about employment law, there is a chance this will get worse rather than better. An independent HR firm is a better bet. I know this from experience, I'm an employer and when two of my employees fell out with each other a couple of years ago it led to a huge problem for me. One got a solicitor involved, he was a complete moron, I had to hire an independent HR firm to deal with the two of them, the one with the solicitor ended up getting extremely poor advice and lost her job and I have no doubt ended up paying a huge fee for the bad legal advice she received. Don't assume your everyday solicitor knows the intricacies of employment law, it's bread and butter for top HR professionals, the one I hired chewed up the solicitor. The irony is, the employee was excellent and I wanted her to stay but her course of action made that impossible as in the end she came across as the bullying party.

celligraphy

Mods can this be deleted as I 've received enough help thanks

Nody

Mod:
Closed on request of OP.