Slatted Tank

goldsalmon33

Hello All,

I am hoping to build a slatted tank this year and I wanted to run some thoughts by ye to get some independant advice and scrutiny to minimise any potential fu*k ups seeing as I'm relatively new to this game.

I buy 20 dairy bull calves (aa or hex) each spring and take them through to finish them at 24-26 months. I find that this system suits my situation the best as I'm not short on ground (albeit a bit wet-ish). It's a part-time operation so i want to reduce the labour as much as possible. Given that I have enough ground for double the numbers at least, I'll want to up my numbers in time (to say 30 calves each yr). Which would mean housing 30 weanlings and 30 steers/bullocks/1-2 yr olds each winter. So am I right in my calculations...

Slurry
Weanlings (<275kg) = 0.08m3/animal/week
Bullocks (>275kg) = 0.15m3/animal/week
slurry requirements = 179.4 m3 for a worst case 26 week period.

so

A 4-bay slatted shed with 3.8m (12ft 6") slats, 2.5m (8ft) deep, and 20m (65ft) long provides 175m3 slurry capacity.

or

A 3-bay slatted shed with 4.8m (16ft) slats, 2.5m (8ft) deep, and 15m (49ft) long provides 168m3 slurry capacity.


Feeding
Weanlings (<275kg) = 0.45m/animal
Bullocks (>275kg) = 0.6m/animal

So given a single bay is 5m wide and using both sides of shed to feed (feed trough and walkway at the back of the shed), then I can theoretically feed 22 weanlings and 18 bullocks in each bay. Probably not physically possible? space?

Not worried about silage/hay as that'll be ad-lib so they can double up on the feed passage.


ok that's it for now, any thoughts? or did you stop reading half way through?
cheers...

tanko

Surely 30 weanlings will need 3 bays and 30 stores wiil need 4 bays. Whatever about slurry storage the cattle have to fit comfortably in the pens.

C0N0R

For slurry storage calculation you have to leave a foot free for "freeboard" if I recall correctly. You can always go deeper with the tank too, it's impossible to have too much slurry storage!

larthehar

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/farmbuildings/farmbuildingspecifications/wordversions/RecAnimalAreas.doc&ved=0ahUKEwi0l8XviIDSAhWlD8AKHQ_cAk0QFggZMAA&usg=AFQjCNFks5fvdNLteqZE8md7s4xwOnVjLQ

From dept website!

goldsalmon33

Going by Dept. Spec I could fit 16 weanlings and 9 steers in each bay, which does leave me shy on space for the steers with a 4 bay shed. But those calcs are allowing 2.3m2 per steer and 1.3m2 per weanling which is very generous i think...

freeboard is 200mm alright for slurry...

suppose question is how many weanlings/steers are ye fitting per bay in yer sheds?

Bass Reeves

OP it depends on how much you want to future proof the operation. There are notable issues with feedspace etc. There are other issue to factor in such as cost efficiency. In general when building a shed tank is biggest issue. You also need to factor in floor space area etc .If I were you I would go with a 16' slats and at least an 2.4m deep tank and maybe up to 2.7m. By leaving about 400mm of toe space this leaves you with 5mX6m bay's. These bay's will carry about 20ish 300 kg weanlings and 15X500 kg bullocks. In a tight situation you will squeeze 1-2 more in each pen. If you ever wanted to expand to 40 weanlings and 40 bullocks by putting in a run back in one pen.

For 30 weanling you will need 1.5 pens and 2.5 pens for bullocks. Make sure to face the shed North or East ideally North East. Put a 3-4 meter run back behind shed and put a cattle crush in there for cattle handling.

cj maxx

Bass Reeves wrote: »

OP it depends on how much you want to future proof the operation. There are notable issues with feedspace etc. There are other issue to factor in such as cost efficiency. In general when building a shed tank is biggest issue. You also need to factor in floor space area etc .If I were you I would go with a 16' slats and at least an 2.4m deep tank and maybe up to 2.7m. By leaving about 400mm of toe space this leaves you with 5mX6m bay's. These bay's will carry about 20ish 300 kg weanlings and 15X500 kg bullocks. In a tight situation you will squeeze 1-2 more in each pen. If you ever wanted to expand to 40 weanlings and 40 bullocks by putting in a run back in one pen.

For 30 weanling you will need 1.5 pens and 2.5 pens for bullocks. Make sure to face the shed North or East ideally North East. Put a 3-4 meter run back behind shed and put a cattle crush in there for cattle handling.

why north ., i would have thought south woulds have better ?

Cavanjack

cjmc wrote: »

why north ., i would have thought south woulds have better ?

The driving rain comes from the south. We have a few sheds with feed passages here opened to the northeast and the silage never gets wet

Bass Reeves

cjmc wrote: »

why north ., i would have thought south woulds have better ?

As cavavhack says all the rain and wind come from the south, west or south west. You get a small bit from the east. Every 5 or 6 years you get snow from the north for a day. But cattle will drive that through the slats. I would leave the East side of the shed open put gates with that stock board down to the slats

Who2

A 14'6 slat and 18" toe space into 16' bays should have no more than 9 300kg weanlings imo. the same size pen can hold 7-8 big bullocks, anymore and theres always one getting bullied badly. stock to a pen should be kept even too, putting 20-30 weanlings into one open pen never works right imo.

Panch18

If you had feed barrier on both sides of the pen then you would dramatically increase your feed space - double in fact!!!

goldsalmon33

Bass Reeves wrote: »

...By leaving about 400mm of toe space this leaves you with 5mX6m bay's...

How'd you get 5m x 6m? 400mm toe front and back?

Bass Reeves wrote: »

...If you ever wanted to expand to 40 weanlings and 40 bullocks by putting in a run back in one pen

What is a run back?

Who2 wrote: »

.A 14'6 slat and 18" toe space into 16' bays should have no more than 9 300kg weanlings imo...

That works out about right for animals >275kg = 10 per bay.
And for animals <275kg = 18 per bay, going by Dept. spec. whatever we call them weanlings, steers, big bullocks etc... you must be feeding your weanlings well ...!


Shed is going into an open slurry pit and will be facing north east alright. Lean-To type with one side completely open to the NE, which will be covered with a canopy. Wind and rain from the SW here. snow from the north.

goldsalmon33

Panch18 wrote: »

If you had feed barrier on both sides of the pen then you would dramatically increase your feed space - double in fact!!!

Genius :D:D

Ha, too much shed to cover then!

Bass Reeves

goldsalmon33 wrote: »

Bass Reeves wrote: »

...By leaving about 400mm of toe space this leaves you with 5mX6m bay's...

How'd you get 5m x 6m? 400mm toe front and back?

Bass Reeves wrote: »

...If you ever wanted to expand to 40 weanlings and 40 bullocks by putting in a run back in one pen

What is a run back?

Who2 wrote: »

.A 14'6 slat and 18" toe space into 16' bays should have no more than 9 300kg weanlings imo...

That works out about right for animals >275kg = 10 per bay.
And for animals <275kg = 18 per bay, going by Dept. spec. whatever we call them weanlings, steers, big bullocks etc... you must be feeding your weanlings well ...!


Shed is going into an open slurry pit and will be facing north east alright. Lean-To type with one side completely open to the NE, which will be covered with a canopy. Wind and rain from the SW here. snow from the north.

16' slats are actually a little bigger usually 5 meters add 0.8 meters and you are near enough 6 meters, bay's are 4.8 meters soI had rounded off the figures. A run back is an area behind a slatted pen that is ideally sloped into the tank so that all moisture will run into the tank. You can straw bed it or put a rubber mat on it and scrape it every day. Feed silage at front barrier and if the sloped area behind the barrier was 20' deep you could keep 40 weanlings in the pen.

You might not need it that big. 40 bullocks might still give you had a pen more for weanlings. You could set your shed up first day 1 single pen and two pens 1.5 bay's each. Single pen would hold 15-17 bullocks, the pens that are a bay and a half would hold either 20-25 bullocks or 30 weanlings.

FeelTheBern

What level of a slope would be best for a lie back for weanlings - would 1 in 18 be about right?

Sam Kade

Who2 wrote: »

A 14'6 slat and 18" toe space into 16' bays should have no more than 9 300kg weanlings imo. the same size pen can hold 7-8 big bullocks, anymore and theres always one getting bullied badly. stock to a pen should be kept even too, putting 20-30 weanlings into one open pen never works right imo.

Back in the 80's it was 15sq/weanling and 22sq/adult animal.

grassroot1

My advice would be to go and visit slatted units that other farmers have, they will tell you the faults and mistakes they have made. You will also get a few ideas that you might not have taught of.
The only thing I would say is integrate a cattle crush into you design, so that it can be a one man operation if possible.

goldsalmon33

Am leaning towards 16' slats which are apparently 16' 6" with 500mm toe space which will allow me the space to house 26 bullocks in 2.5 pens and 28 weanlings in the remaining 1.5 pens. Those calculations were done using Dept. Spec spacing too which will stretch to 30 weanlings and 30 bullocks i reckon.

Have been around to a few sheds and getting few ideas... varying toe spaces from 3ft to 9". And a tip to leave the back block of the feed trough higher than front block to help keep the ration in.

Also what heights are your sheds at the front and back? and how much of a canopy overhang? 8-10ft? Do fellas reckon a gap at the top between canopy is a good thing?

Finally, spaced/vented sheeting, should it be on the roof or just on the shed sides?

Who2

goldsalmon33 wrote: »

Am leaning towards 16' slats which are apparently 16' 6" with 500mm toe space which will allow me the space to house 26 bullocks in 2.5 pens and 28 weanlings in the remaining 1.5 pens. Those calculations were done using Dept. Spec spacing too which will stretch to 30 weanlings and 30 bullocks i reckon.

Have been around to a few sheds and getting few ideas... varying toe spaces from 3ft to 9". And a tip to leave the back block of the feed trough higher than front block to help keep the ration in.

Also what heights are your sheds at the front and back? and how much of a canopy overhang? 8-10ft? Do fellas reckon a gap at the top between canopy is a good thing?

Finally, spaced/vented sheeting, should it be on the roof or just on the shed sides?

12 ft minimum at eaves, an 18" toe area keep the feed passage 4" above the top of the toe area so you can get away with a single 9 x3 under the barrier. a gap at the top of the canopy is a good job, vented sheeting is a waste of time, spaced sheeting works better, and theres no real issue with it on the roof.

Bass Reeves

Slope toe area back into tank, I would even leave slats 6-8 inches below feed area. If you are doing a lean-too shed this will be no issue. Cattle will push dung etc down into slat's so no build up of dung. As well if you want to you can leave a run back across complete shed and put a load/unloading area as well as crush etc into this artea

Sheep breeder

In one of our slated sheds we have a slopped feed barrier on hinges for to open out to load cattle off the feed passage, the best thing we ever done when building sheds so easy to load cattle from the pens in this shed,
Water pipes very important not to bury in the concrete instead up over head, found this out in the bad snow to our cost when concrete had to be dug up to get to a tee piece to get water flowing.

goldsalmon33

Had originally planned to have vented sheeting on the back of the shed and spaced sheeting on the roof. But saw a mans shed recently where the roof of the shed overhung the back wall by 18" to cover his feed trough which was outside the back wall of his shed.
Was thinking i might do the same overhang at the back but then leave a gap of a foot at the top of the sheeting underneath the overhang to allow air in. My feed trough and passageway will still be inside the wall.

Reasons?
1. Better air flow through big gap rather than vented sheeting.
2. Cheaper to not use vented sheeting.

Thoughts ?

FeelTheBern

goldsalmon33 wrote: »

Had originally planned to have vented sheeting on the back of the shed and spaced sheeting on the roof. But saw a mans shed recently where the roof of the shed overhung the back wall by 18" to cover his feed trough which was outside the back wall of his shed.
Was thinking i might do the same overhang at the back but then leave a gap of a foot at the top of the sheeting underneath the overhang to allow air in. My feed trough and passageway will still be inside the wall.

Reasons?
1. Better air flow through big gap rather than vented sheeting.
2. Cheaper to not use vented sheeting.

Thoughts ?

If you look at the SI for Grant Spec there's actually a section in there about an overhang at rear with an air inlet - but don't think gap as big as one foot, maybe that's too much but prob depends on direction it's facing.

goldsalmon33

Just to finish the story on this one. Shed built, on its second winter now. The amount of work and hassle that it saves is worth the price tag alone. never worried about cattle breaking etc... biggest job now is pushing in silage!

kept my feed trough inside the back wall and went with vented sheeting on the sides and spaced on the back. I find that there is plenty of ventilation in it but it helps that the shed is high. The back of the shed is at least 12' high and it rises towards up to the front so there is plenty of air movement. Slurry capacity was an issue last winter but that was because we started with about 3.5 feet of water in it and the housing period was so long i had to take a few tanks out of it. I have 13 bullocks (circa 450kg) in a pen which is a little tight but there is lying space for them although not enough going by teagasc manuals...Two pens ended up being bigger than standard by about a foot and a half because the tank was made a little bigger (erring on the side of caution) by the builder so i preferred to have the extra space inside the shed than outside. That then made it awkward to get barriers to fit but we managed it in the end.

Have to say we are very pleased with the final outcome. probably be a while paying for it through beef but if it allows me manage farm very easily through the winter. Complete total cost of the shed came in at 47k with about 7k back through vat. maybe a little expensive but i think ive got a quality shed for my money and i did zero of the work... Didn't go the grant route... Thats it really.. cheers for all the advice on here....

Good loser

goldsalmon well done. What are the overall dims of the shed? I mean size of roof.


Also how do you fill the rear feed troughs?


Thanks

Cavanjack

goldsalmon33 wrote: »

Just to finish the story on this one. Shed built, on its second winter now. The amount of work and hassle that it saves is worth the price tag alone. never worried about cattle breaking etc... biggest job now is pushing in silage!

kept my feed trough inside the back wall and went with vented sheeting on the sides and spaced on the back. I find that there is plenty of ventilation in it but it helps that the shed is high. The back of the shed is at least 12' high and it rises towards up to the front so there is plenty of air movement. Slurry capacity was an issue last winter but that was because we started with about 3.5 feet of water in it and the housing period was so long i had to take a few tanks out of it. I have 13 bullocks (circa 450kg) in a pen which is a little tight but there is lying space for them although not enough going by teagasc manuals...Two pens ended up being bigger than standard by about a foot and a half because the tank was made a little bigger (erring on the side of caution) by the builder so i preferred to have the extra space inside the shed than outside. That then made it awkward to get barriers to fit but we managed it in the end.

Have to say we are very pleased with the final outcome. probably be a while paying for it through beef but if it allows me manage farm very easily through the winter. Complete total cost of the shed came in at 47k with about 7k back through vat. maybe a little expensive but i think ive got a quality shed for my money and i did zero of the work... Didn't go the grant route... Thats it really.. cheers for all the advice on here....

Good stuff. Why didn't you go the grant route You surely would have done it cheaper?

Sillycave

goldsalmon33 wrote: »

Just to finish the story on this one. Shed built, on its second winter now. The amount of work and hassle that it saves is worth the price tag alone. never worried about cattle breaking etc... biggest job now is pushing in silage!

kept my feed trough inside the back wall and went with vented sheeting on the sides and spaced on the back. I find that there is plenty of ventilation in it but it helps that the shed is high. The back of the shed is at least 12' high and it rises towards up to the front so there is plenty of air movement. Slurry capacity was an issue last winter but that was because we started with about 3.5 feet of water in it and the housing period was so long i had to take a few tanks out of it. I have 13 bullocks (circa 450kg) in a pen which is a little tight but there is lying space for them although not enough going by teagasc manuals...Two pens ended up being bigger than standard by about a foot and a half because the tank was made a little bigger (erring on the side of caution) by the builder so i preferred to have the extra space inside the shed than outside. That then made it awkward to get barriers to fit but we managed it in the end.

Have to say we are very pleased with the final outcome. probably be a while paying for it through beef but if it allows me manage farm very easily through the winter. Complete total cost of the shed came in at 47k with about 7k back through vat. maybe a little expensive but i think ive got a quality shed for my money and i did zero of the work... Didn't go the grant route... Thats it really.. cheers for all the advice on here....

Any pics of the final product?

goldsalmon33

@good loser
Dimensions of roof are same as outside of shed, as the canopy is separate roof with a gap between the two. Shed is circa 70ft long and 25 ft wide.

16' 6" slat
18" toe space front & back
2' trough
3' walkway

cattle are fed via the walkway at the back...

@cavanjack:
1 - the outlay of capital and delay in payback. i didnt have enough capital and wasnt in a position to go borrowing..
2 - not a young farmer so would only get 40%.

I figured it was going to cost me about 5k more to go with a non-grant shed before planning and i could get it done a lot quicker as well so i went that way.


@sillycave ill try dig em out...

goldsalmon33

photos attached... i hope...

Belongamick

Fine shed Goldsalmon, well done.

Water John

Nice job, see you included that essential piece of equip for silage, the three pronged fork.

Good loser

Water John wrote: »

Nice job, see you included that essential piece of equip for silage, the three pronged fork.

It's a 4 pronger.


He should get a 3.

Water John

You're right, need new glasses. 3 prong really suits silage, big diff.

kingdom fan

I am considering demolishing an old cow stall that's no longer used and adding another slatted shed, however I have a old style slurry pit built in the 70's.
Approx 40ft wide. 80 ft long. 5ft walls. Walls are almost a foot wide at floor. About 7 inch at top. All walls and floor are in good condition. I saw an article some time in the IFJ where a fella in clare converted his old slurry pit to a slattted tank. I was thinking of increasing the wall height somehow or adding new wall and putting in two alone walls. This tank was used last winter but it's empty this year. My other tank ( 14ft6" by125 feet) just over half full at the moment.
Does anyone here have any experience of this type of conversion.
I've a rough price for the roof already it's the tank bit I'm trying to get my head around.

Water John

How are you going to span the width 40ft, with slats?

kingdom fan

Water John wrote: »

How are you going to span the width 40ft, with slats?

Two walls. Maybe 10" wide. Also use these walls to hold rsj's for barriers/ gates.
Am thinking pens the full length maybe 12 or 14 ft slat. And central feed passage 10 to 13 foot wide all approx numbers at d moment. One passage here is 13 ft wide and I've no problem feeding bales with d front loader

Grueller

kingdom fan wrote: »

Two walls. Maybe 10" wide. Also use these walls to hold rsj's for barriers/ gates.
Am thinking pens the full length maybe 12 or 14 ft slat. And central feed passage 10 to 13 foot wide all approx numbers at d moment. One passage here is 13 ft wide and I've no problem feeding bales with d front loader

Drumderry concrete do a 20'6" slat. 2 of them be enough. Might be worth pricing.

Cavanjack

Grueller wrote: »

Drumderry concrete do a 20'6" slat. 2 of them be enough. Might be worth pricing.

Wonder how do these compare to two 10' 6 slats price wise and function wise (agitating etc). Are they grand approved?

Grueller

Cavanjack wrote: »

Wonder how do these compare to two 10' 6 slats price wise and function wise (agitating etc). Are they grand approved?

Yes they are grant approved. I know a 16'6" slat is €85 + VAT per foot of tank. I also know an 18'6" is €110 + VAT per ft. Don't know about the 20'6"

Donald Trump

goldsalmon33 wrote: »

@good loser
Dimensions of roof are same as outside of shed, as the canopy is separate roof with a gap between the two. Shed is circa 70ft long and 25 ft wide.

16' 6" slat
18" toe space front & back
2' trough
3' walkway

cattle are fed via the walkway at the back...

@cavanjack:
1 - the outlay of capital and delay in payback. i didnt have enough capital and wasnt in a position to go borrowing..
2 - not a young farmer so would only get 40%.

I figured it was going to cost me about 5k more to go with a non-grant shed before planning and i could get it done a lot quicker as well so i went that way.


@sillycave ill try dig em out...

Looks like a grand shed. Quick question though

Is it worth the loss of space to put the feeding trough and walkway at the back? I'm sure it's handy and all, although you'd never be able to use a diet feeder or something like that on it. What percentage of the floor space does it take up?

White Clover

Donald Trump wrote: »

Looks like a grand shed. Quick question though

Is it worth the loss of space to put the feeding trough and walkway at the back? I'm sure it's handy and all, although you'd never be able to use a diet feeder or something like that on it. What percentage of the floor space does it take up?

I wouldn't say he lost space! The cost of the extra space wouldn't come into a life changing sum!

goldsalmon33

Donald Trump wrote: »

Looks like a grand shed. Quick question though

Is it worth the loss of space to put the feeding trough and walkway at the back? I'm sure it's handy and all, although you'd never be able to use a diet feeder or something like that on it. What percentage of the floor space does it take up?

Definitely worth it in my opinion. I did not want to have to go opening the back of shed to an outside trough and to then feed ration in the rain. the slats are already 16' 6" which is quite big already so tank was as wide as it was going to get. it just made the roof area bigger. its a lean-to shed and i dont plan on using diet feeder at the back anyway.

Trough is 2ft and walkway is 3ft so for 4 bays, 5x60=300sq. ft roughy.
Cattle space then is 16.5+1.5+1.5=say 20 ft for 4 bays, 20x60=1200 sq. ft.
so 25% if my math is right...

There is an argument to made that the mass concrete wall at the back is useless as cattle are never near it so if i was going direct labour then sheeting it to the ground would be cheaper. My builders price was fixed so went with mass concrete which is better for wind shelter as thats the south west anyway.