The greatest Irish person...

A Little Pony

Patser wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Actually not true. Alexander wanted revenge on Persians originally but knew he needed them to solidify his Macedonian Empire. He married a Persian, put many of them into his army. Had a Persian wedding.

Was it not an Afghan he married? Agreed on his use of Persians in his army,  he'd usually promote as many locals into his leadership so as to cement his rule over his conquered lands and allow him to continue on.

He actually wanted to befriend Darius,  the Persian leader,  so as to have someone else who understood the loneliness of leadership. When Darius was betrayed and assassinated by one of his generals,  Alexander hunted him down in revenge.

Sogdian, Iranian people. God knows what else that guy could have went on to do if he didn't die at 33!

maudgonner

D0NNELLY wrote: »

Died today

Again? Jeez, he really was a great man because he died a month ago too.

bodhrandude

I feel terrible now for mentioning Noel Browne as I would have voted for him but he wasn't on the actual poll so voted Arthur Guinness as its my number one tipple. I wish I could take it back and give the 1% to Noel Browne. He would have been very important in the late forties and early fifties as regards health, medicine and politics. Poverty when he was growing up was very bad and the infant mortality rate was extremely bad, half his family being wiped out by TB. He managed to get into college and become a doctor, his speciality being to fight TB, he got into politics and was made Minister for health, where he started a mass building programme of hospitals and clinics and the Mother and Child scheme. This created a big stand off with the Catholic Church who had their talons on the government at the time. Its worth seeking out Noel Browne's argument with Bishop McQuaid, the Archbishop of Dublin , real fire and brimstone stuff. He had to stand down after only one term due to the outrage of the Catholic Church and the bourgeois politicians of Fianna Fail. Probably one of the most honest politicians in Irish politics, I recommend you read his biography Against the Tide, an interesting read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_and_Child_Scheme

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Actually not true. Alexander wanted revenge on Persians originally but knew he needed them to solidify his Macedonian Empire. He married a Persian, put many of them into his army. Had a Persian wedding.

Alexander's strength was integrating all the different cultures he conquered. He let each conquered peoples keep their own customs.

steddyeddy

bodhrandude wrote: »

I feel terrible now for mentioning Noel Browne as I would have voted for him but he wasn't on the actual poll so voted Arthur Guinness as its my number one tipple. I wish I could take it back and give the 1% to Noel Browne. He would have been very important in the late forties and early fifties as regards health, medicine and politics. Poverty when he was growing up was very bad and the infant mortality rate was extremely bad, half his family being wiped out by TB. He managed to get into college and become a doctor, his speciality being to fight TB, he got into politics and was made Minister for health, where he started a mass building programme of hospitals and clinics and the Mother and Child scheme. This created a big stand off with the Catholic Church who had their talons on the government at the time. Its worth seeking out Noel Browne's argument with Bishop McQuaid, the Archbishop of Dublin , real fire and brimstone stuff. He had to stand down after only one term due to the outrage of the Catholic Church and the bourgeois politicians of Fianna Fail. Probably one of the most honest politicians in Irish politics, I recommend you read his biography Against the Tide, an interesting read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_and_Child_Scheme

Noel's mother, father and some siblings died of TB. He made it his cause to try and prevent this disease and won. It's unthinkable that anyone could oppose something like the Mother and Child scheme and call themselves Christian.

Galwayguy35

If I was going to name a Prodestant who should be on the list it certainly wouldn't be that Wellesley fella who seems to have regarded the Irish as sh1t on his shoe.

It's baffling why Wolfe Tone and Robert Emmet aren't included, men who gave their lives in the fight for freedom.

feargale

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For me, it's W.B. Yeats. A brilliant brilliant mind, the man who created the most beautiful poem of all time with his "When You Are Old". The word "genius" should be used very carefully, but I think it fully applies in his case.

Poetry doesn't butter parsnips. And some poets had strange political ideas, such as Yeats, d'Annunzio, Pound and Milton.

The greatest Irishman was Daniel O'Connell. He took a bunch of illiterate quasi-slaves up off their knees and forged them into a nation. And he did it without shedding a drop of blood.
There is a second string to his bow that is almost unknown in Ireland, but widely acknowledged in America, i.e. his principled stand for the abolition of slavery which cost him alot of Irish-American support.
Of course his opposition to physical force has caused him to be vilified by certain people who in their own minds are wiser than all the ballot boxes in the land. He has proven an easy target for blame for the death of the Irish language, despite living at a time when almost nobody advocated preserving or reviving endangered languages, a time when the reality of emigration made familiarity with English a sine qua non for Irish people.

ToddyDoody

Michael O'Leary.

Not popular but gets the job done.

Terrible human rights record.

maryishere

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Michael O'Leary.

Not popular but gets the job done.

Not popular? He has grown a little Irish airline to becoming the biggest in Europe. Very popular man I would say, thanks partly to him we have competitive air fares, not like 35 years ago when air Lingus charged nearly a months wages to fly to England. Plus he has created employment for thousands, and paid all his taxes in Ireland. A great man.

ToddyDoody

maryishere wrote: »

Not popular? He has grown a little Irish airline to becoming the biggest in Europe. Very popular man I would say, thanks partly to him we have competitive air fares, not like 35 years ago when air Lingus charged nearly a months wages to fly to England. Plus he has created employment for thousands, and paid all his taxes in Ireland. A great man.

So we're all agreed

topmanamillion

Delighted to see Michael Collins leading the poll.
While there have been many great Irishmen Collins` was the stand out.
He was a law graduate who brought the largest empire the planet has ever seen to its knees.
Also named as one of the best generals the British empire ever faced by the British National Army Museum alongside people like George Washington and Napoleon Bonaporte.

Says it all really.

topmanamillion

topmanamillion wrote: »

He was a law graduate who brought the largest empire the planet has ever seen to its knees.

I didn't think he graduated? Afaik he gave it up.

Famous lawyers include Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmet, Daniel O'Connell, Padraig Pearse, Edward Carson and Isaac Butt.

topmanamillion

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I didn't think he graduated? Afaik he gave it up.

Famous lawyers include Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmet, Daniel O'Connell, Padraig Pearse, Edward Carson and Isaac Butt.

I wasn't sure myself that's why I didn't call him a solicitor. I knew he studied law so I just chanced "law graduate".

Dirty Dingus McGee

Why is Veronica Guerin on the shortlist above? She's been turned into a hero despite not having any particularly great achievements

She may have done some good journalism but gangland crime is the same as it ever was and frankly what she did to her family after receiving repeated warnings to stop what she was doing it was extremely selfish of her to continue when she had a young child.

Temptamperu

Marty Whealan of course! :pac:

http://www.dailyedge.ie/marty-whelan-national-treasure-3230831-Feb2017/

maryishere

tomwaterford wrote: »

But never knew Collins was named as a top general....

in a BNAM public poll...

feargale

Cartouche wrote: »

Define 'great'

Leaving the place much much better than you found it.

For that reason, while writers and troubadours have made their contribution, nominating any of them as the greatest is almost as fatuous as naming sports celebrities as the greatest.

topmanamillion

maryishere wrote: »

in a BNAM public poll...

The public poll nominated the top 5 military opponents.
At a special event in the museum an audience of 70 special guests (mostly military historians) put them in order with Collins coming out second only to George Washington and ahead of Napoleon Bonaparte, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (the Turkish leader who mounted the defence of Gallipoli) and Erwin Rommel

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9204961/George-Washington-named-Britains-greatest-ever-foe.html

A truly outstanding man and someone Irish people should feel confident to compare and contrast with the very best military and political minds that the world has ever seen.

feargale

feargale wrote: »

Leaving the place much much better than you found it.

For that reason, while writers and troubadours have made their contribution, nominating any of them as the greatest is almost as fatuous as naming sports celebrities as the greatest.

Woah woah, hold on there.

As the person who started the thread, I purposely choose not to define it.

Some might suggest you have just eliminated the soldiers, the Tom Barrys and Michael Collins, unless you think a talent for killing or taking us from peace to Civil War (albeit with a different political destiny) left the place much much better. You don't think ability to create high art like Yeats, or simply to endure and survive like Crean are great? By your logic, we'll just have to wrap this up, measure which scientist's work saved the most lives (presumably Robert Boyle, the man who devised chemistry and who isn't listed) and end the poll.

diomed

Michael Davitt
I can't see why Michael Collins is highly regarded.

diomed

diomed wrote: »

Michael Davitt
I can't see why Michael Collins is highly regarded.

There is one thing that can be said about Davitt, in terms of having an impact on people's day to day lives, on society, it's hard to think of anything as profound as the Land League. It changed everything, in a real bread on the table way that was very different to the whole identity/birthright stuff of those who were purely political or Republican.

topmanamillion

diomed wrote: »

Michael Davitt
I can't see why Michael Collins is highly regarded.

I`d put a decent wager on you being from Mayo.
They love Davitt up there. Everything from streets to the social welfare office in Castlebar are named after Davitt!:pac:
I wonder if Enda will get the same treatment.

tomwaterford

topmanamillion wrote: »

I`d put a decent wager on you being from Mayo.
They love Davitt up there. Everything from streets to the social welfare office in Castlebar are named after Davitt!:pac:
I wonder if Enda will get the same treatment.

The rough nightclub in Dungarvan is called davitts

No matter how much they rebrand it

Chancer3001

It's either the barman who decides to let us have a lock in

Or the bouncer who lets me in for free

munsterlegend

diomed wrote: »

Michael Davitt
I can't see why Michael Collins is highly regarded.

He led us to independence against all odds with the support of his people? Hardly earth shattering.

Ken.

I will be resetting the poll in a few days once we've settled on 25 people.

Barbie!

Barbie! wrote: »

I will be resetting the poll in a few days once we've settled on 25 people.

At the risk of repeating myself

Robert Boyle!

tomwaterford

Barbie! wrote: »

I will be resetting the poll in a few days once we've settled on 25 people.

Any chance of includeing me in the poll

323

Always been very impressed Shackleton & Crean

Not so sure Arthur Wellesley would have appreciated even being referred to as Irish "Being born in a stable does not make one a horse."

Jack the Stripper

Myself, I'm great.