Ifi

thefisherbuy

The ifi are still going to be netting pike in this day and age, they said they will be euthanising all pike under 85cm.. something has to be done. I love trout fishing but I fish for pike too but this is outrages

What do ye think lads?


http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/fisheries-management-1/1247-proposed-wrbd-stock-management-plan-2017/file

SeaFields

Mod. Let's try and keep this civil lads. There are posters here who are involved with the IFI. If they choose to post on the topic, or indeed for anyone else who posts, attack the post, not the poster. Cheers.

thefisherbuy

SeaFields wrote: »

Mod. Let's try and keep this civil lads. There are posters here who are involved with the IFI. If they choose to post on the topic, or indeed for anyone else who posts, attack the post, not the poster. Cheers.

Yes true I wanted to see other people's opinions but this is not the right way atleast keep them alive and stock them into other lakes ( like pike clubs or just local lakes) as the conn and corrib are designated trout lakes lol etc.. I think that would be a good way and to keep everyone happy in my opinion instead of killing pike.. any ideas

Reedsie

IFI's greatest success has been to create a large divide between two of the largest angling populations it represents and to destroy Ireland's reputation as one of the best pike angling destinations in the world.

Reedsie

An interesting article:

http://www.livescience.com/9716-loss-top-predators-causing-ecosystems-collapse.html


Loss of Top Predators Causing Ecosystems to Collapse
By Live Science Staff | October 1, 2009


The catastrophic decline around the world of "apex" predators such as wolves, cougars, lions or sharks has led to a huge increase in smaller "mesopredators" that are causing major economic and ecological disruptions, a new study concludes.

The findings, published today in the journal Bioscience, found that in North America all of the largest terrestrial predators have been in decline during the past 200 years while the ranges of 60 percent of mesopredators have expanded. The problem is global, growing and severe, scientists say, with few solutions in sight.

An example: in parts of Sub-Saharan Africa, lion and leopard populations have been decimated, allowing a surge in the "mesopredator" population next down the line, baboons. In some cases children are now being kept home from school to guard family gardens from brazen packs of crop-raiding baboons.

"This issue is very complex, and a lot of the consequences are not known," said William Ripple, a professor of forest ecosystems and society at Oregon State University. "But there's evidence that the explosion of mesopredator populations is very severe and has both ecological and economic repercussions."

In case after case around the world, the researchers said, primary predators such as wolves, lions or sharks have been dramatically reduced if not eliminated, usually on purpose and sometimes by forces such as habitat disruption, hunting or fishing. Many times this has been viewed positively by humans, fearful of personal attack, loss of livestock or other concerns. But the new picture that's emerging is a range of problems, including ecosystem and economic disruption that may dwarf any problems presented by the original primary predators.

"I've done a lot of work on wildlife in Africa, and people everywhere are asking some of the same questions, what do we do?" said Clinton Epps, an assistant professor at OSU who is studying the interactions between humans and wildlife. "Most important to understand is that these issues are complex, the issue is not as simple as getting rid of wolves or lions and thinking you've solved some problem. We have to be more careful about taking what appears to be the easy solution."

The elimination of wolves is often favored by ranchers, for instance, who fear attacks on their livestock. However, that has led to a huge surge in the number of coyotes, a "mesopredator" once kept in check by the wolves. The coyotes attack pronghorn antelope and domestic sheep, and attempts to control them have been hugely expensive, costing hundreds of millions of dollars.

"The economic impacts of mesopredators should be expected to exceed those of apex predators in any scenario in which mesopredators contribute to the same or to new conflict with humans," the researchers wrote in their report. "Mesopredators occur at higher densities than apex predators and exhibit greater resiliency to control efforts."

The problems are not confined to terrestrial ecosystems. Sharks, for instance, are in serious decline due to overfishing. In some places that has led to an explosion in the populations of rays, which in turn caused the collapse of a bay scallop fishery and both ecological an economic losses.

Among the findings of the study:

Primary or apex predators can actually benefit prey populations by suppressing smaller predators, and failure to consider this mechanism has triggered collapses of entire ecosystems.

Cascading negative effects of surging mesopredator populations have been documented for birds, sea turtles, lizards, rodents, marsupials, rabbits, fish, scallops, insects and ungulates.

The economic cost of controlling mesopredators may be very high, and sometimes could be accomplished more effectively at less cost by returning apex predators to the ecosystem.

Human intervention cannot easily replace the role of apex predators, in part because the constant fear of predation alters not only populations but behavior of mesopredators.

Large predators are usually carnivores, but mesopredators are often omnivores and can cause significant plant and crop damage.

The effects of exploding mesopredator populations can be found in oceans, rivers, forests and grasslands around the world.

Reversing and preventing mesopredator release is becoming increasingly difficult and expensive as the world's top predators continue to edge toward obliteration.

"These problems resist simple solutions," Ripple said. "I've read that when Gen. George Armstrong Custer came into the Black Hills in 1874, he noticed a scarcity of coyotes and the abundance of wolves. Now the wolves are gone in many places and coyotes are killing thousands of sheep all over the West."

"We are just barely beginning to appreciate the impact of losing our top predators," he said.

wellmade2040

It's a joke , how in a modern era where Catch and release and fish conservation is what all the fishing bodies worldwide is this being allowed to continue ? It makes a laughing stock of our fishing community and is damaging the image that Ireland held as a fishing destination that anglers from across the globe flocked too , I for one won't now or ever again support anything ifi related ad a result

kildare lad

the IFI have to be the most backwards fishing body in the world. You'll be lucky to find any coarse angler who has a good word to say about them. Granted ive meet one or two on the ground who are capable individuals but the shot callers are all game anglers. They couldnt care less about any fish thats not trout r salmon.
As someone whos got back into pike fishing the last few years after a long break im shocked at the serious lack off decent pike, tench, bream fishing in my local area. As i live 10mins from the royal and grand canal and 5 mins from the liffey i should be spoilt for choice but have been cleaned out over the years my poachers, what have the IFI done to combat this nothing.
Years ago Sallins, robertstown, enfield etc was full of english anglers during the summer all over for our great canal fishing. In the last four years im fishing i haven't meet one on my travels...I wonder why???
What have the IFI done to entice them back, nothing, sure why would they bother as the fishing gone downhill due to an epidemic of poaching and an inability or unwillingness to combat it.
Then i hear that the people who are paid to protect our angling in this country, kills thousands upon thousands of fish every year in gill nets to keep the trout men happy,so they can they kill every trout they catch and blame falling trout stocks on pike predation. Its like a script out of father Ted.
Why not relocate the fish instead of killing them, They kill specimen fish every year that people would pay good money to fish for. But they are too thick or ignorant to realize it. i suppose the men in the west dont no any other way of handling a fish except with a priest.
If anyone thinks gill netting works, the Irish Pike Society have released a document using IFI data to prove trout stocks havent increased since they started gillnetting. But guess what stocks have increased, perch, roach, hybrids. What a surprise!! I could go on all night about it, but it'd just put me in bad humour. Its a crying shaming that angling in this country is run by the IFI.

kildare lad

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Yes true I wanted to see other people's opinions but this is not the right way atleast keep them alive and stock them into other lakes ( like pike clubs or just local lakes) as the conn and corrib are designated trout lakes lol etc.. I think that would be a good way and to keep everyone happy in my opinion instead of killing pike.. any ideas

id agree wit as well, let the trout men have there lakes but either remove the fish humanely or dont do it at all. gillnetting is disgusting!!

Reedsie

kildare lad wrote: »

But guess what stocks have increased, perch, roach, hybrids. What a surprise!! I could go on all night about it, but it'd just put me in bad humour. Its a crying shaming that angling in this country is run by the IFI.

Exactly what was mentioned in the article I posted above. Surging mesopredator populations, which have a cascading effect through the food chain. They'll cause increasing demand on lower items in the food chain.


'Without any predators to limit population growth, herbivorous prey species reproduce without check, and all of them are hungry. More herbivores eat more plants, and without anything to control them, they can quickly degrade their habitat. This puts pressure on the plants that they depend on for food, sometimes to the point of impeding plant reproduction and defoliating the habitat. This is known as a trophic cascade, and in extreme cases, can lead to the complete destruction of the ecosystem.'
http://education.seattlepi.com/happens-top-predator-removed-ecosystem-3496.html

thefisherbuy

Reedsie wrote: »

Exactly what was mentioned in the article I posted above. Surging mesopredator populations, which have a cascading effect through the food chain. They'll cause increasing demand on lower items in the food chain.


'Without any predators to limit population growth, herbivorous prey species reproduce without check, and all of them are hungry. More herbivores eat more plants, and without anything to control them, they can quickly degrade their habitat. This puts pressure on the plants that they depend on for food, sometimes to the point of impeding plant reproduction and defoliating the habitat. This is known as a trophic cascade, and in extreme cases, can lead to the complete destruction of the ecosystem.'
http://education.seattlepi.com/happens-top-predator-removed-ecosystem-3496.html

Very true about the course fish (not pike) are exploading in corrib and other of the great western lakes Roach, perch, and bream.. I think all the ifi "shot callers" think that pike eat trout and nothing else, but we all know that's not true..
I think there's is going to be a protest against this 2017 management at a fishing show (I think the Irish angling expo?) what good is that going to do though?

kildare lad

I dont know, but im gonna go one of the days of the protest. Been at the last two. Its a bit ironic that the same people that want pike removal for the protection of wild trout stock have no problem knocking them on the head when they catch them. I cant understand that mentality.

blackpearl

how many so called trout lakes 5 or six leave the trout men alone the country is full of pike lakes but do agree about killing of pike they should be transported to other lakes in good nick.

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

how many so called trout lakes 5 or six leave the trout men alone the country is full of pike lakes but do agree about killing of pike they should be transported to other lakes in good nick.

Thing is that when you take out the predator you leave it wide open to prey to explode stock wise, perch, roach, and even bream, then there going to be taking the food trout eat, thing is that most "trout men" think that there's heaps and heaps lake filled with pike not so true in my case, I know of zero lakes that doesn't atleast have these certain people killing pike.. bigger pike are becoming rarer and rarer, and I live around 30miles from the corrib. I would like for them to atleast not kill them and transport it into lakes, then they say fancy words such as euthanise when all they do is throw them in the back of the boat!

Fisherbuy

Reedsie

blackpearl wrote: »

how many so called trout lakes 5 or six leave the trout men alone the country is full of pike lakes but do agree about killing of pike they should be transported to other lakes in good nick.

There's no 'trout lakes' and 'pike lakes'. Somebody just decided that in the very recent history. These lakes and the species within them have formed a balance over thousands of years. Removing the apex predator has proved time and time again to cause issues all the way down.

Do 'trout men' feel that their grandfathers, great grandfathers and so on had poor trout fishing? Far from it. Pike and trout anglers fished side by side. IFI have driven a stake between the two and are hell bent on slaughtering the apex predator from some of the best waters in the country to serve their own very one sided interests.

Focus on water and habitat quality and let the lakes thrive.

blackpearl

Agree with what you say i am a big trout fisher my self but why not try and remove these big numbers of course fish and try and restock the canals and lakes that the life was poached out off,no they wont because they will have to patrol them to keep poaching down big cut backs with the fisheries at the moment its going to get worse.

kildare lad

blackpearl wrote: »

Agree with what you say i am a big trout fisher my self but why not try and remove these big numbers of course fish and try and restock the canals and lakes that the life was poached out off,no they wont because they will have to patrol them to keep poaching down big cut backs with the fisheries at the moment its going to get worse.

they havent changed the laws regarding the taking of coarse fish since 2006. they've done nothing to deter poaching here.. even the fines for salmon poaching arent enough.. but the IFI can allocate nearly 700 man days this year to eradicate pike... Cutbacks my arse, just when it suits them.
If i was a poacher in this country i have very little to worry about

thefisherbuy

True the fines they give to poachers like salmon poachers are nothing a few hundred euros??? The poachers are probably selling salmon for atleast 40 euro.. they would get a good few salmon if there running up the river, then they can dedicate time to kill pike when they could doing better things, I also find a 4 bag limit on the Corrib is studpid now to be honest I didn't kill a single trout last year, Went to a local trout fishery and killed instead of wild fish, then they are basically blaming pike for killing trout why not decrease the bag limit and see what happens to the population of trout? Even for a Few years ??

blackpearl

No harm but you would be better eating the odd wild trout it would be safer that them stockies ,god only knows what their been fed,any how trout over rated give me perch any day but even they are getting smaller this last few years,have made the best tasting fish cakes and fish fingers ever.

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

No harm but you would be better eating the odd wild trout it would be safer that them stockies ,god only knows what their been fed,any how trout over rated give me perch any day but even they are getting smaller this last few years,have made the best tasting fish cakes and fish fingers ever.

Yes I know about how them stockies taste but it's better than no fish, I fish rivers that wouldn't be stuffed with trout, so I try and release everything, I think the ifi should stop the gill nettting there not just getting pike.. I think there must be some action done against the way they handle killing pike, if you look on YouTube you see them just throwing the pike in the boat to suffer.. just madness I've met some very sound ifi's officers but also a lot of p***ks..

Any ideas?

kildare lad

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Yes I know about how them stockies taste but it's better than no fish, I fish rivers that wouldn't be stuffed with trout, so I try and release everything, I think the ifi should stop the gill nettting there not just getting pike.. I think there must be some action done against the way they handle killing pike, if you look on YouTube you see them just throwing the pike in the boat to suffer.. just madness I've met some very sound ifi's officers but also a lot of p***ks..

Any ideas?

they are mortar bins that they put the pike in on them videos on youtube, it just goes to show u what a modern and progressive fisheries board we have!! IFI are so backwards and inept there needs to be something with them. How come there no coarse or sea representation on their board? There just a clique of game anglers

blackpearl

Seen them on sheelin checking the nets every hour or two they had big cubes on boats for taken the pike away and then they are put in a big airrated tank and moved around to other lakes good set up,heard of one 20lb a few years moved to another lake and caught 2 years later it weighted 15lb the fish was taged when it came out of sheelin must be to do with the feeding in the other lake the pike was in good health and let back in .If it was done that way in the other lakes i dont see a problem.

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

Seen them on sheelin checking the nets every hour or two they had big cubes on boats for taken the pike away and then they are put in a big airrated tank and moved around to other lakes good set up,heard of one 20lb a few years moved to another lake and caught 2 years later it weighted 15lb the fish was taged when it came out of sheelin must be to do with the feeding in the other lake the pike was in good health and let back in .If it was done that way in the other lakes i dont see a problem.

Yes the ifi here in Wesf they do it with a club lake, don't do it too often though and there working on 2lakes and 3 rivers by working I mean gill netting killing pike of course.. I'd like if they'd even show some respect to pike, they seem to not give a single sh*t about any other fish, I'd like to see that what you're saying balckpearl transporting pike to different locations that might need re stocking if you could say there's plenty of lakes that need that..

blackpearl

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Yes the ifi here in Wesf they do it with a club lake, don't do it too often though and there working on 2lakes and 3 rivers by working I mean gill netting killing pike of course.. I'd like if they'd even show some respect to pike, they seem to not give a single sh*t about any other fish, I'd like to see that what you're saying balckpearl transporting pike to different locations that might need re stocking if you could say there's plenty of lakes that need that..

Around monaghan and cavan i am afriad so

twin_beacon

Before I say anything, I'm an all around angler. Coarse/Pike/Game/Sea.

The whole removing of pike, its a perfect example of how backward things are in this country.
A few figures from the stock management plan.

1. Total cost of the man power for the gill netting and electro fishing: roughly €120k.
2. Total figure of pike they hope to remove: 5,640.
3. If they meet their targets, total cost to the tax payer per pike removed: roughly €21. (of course this figure increases if the don't reach the target, and decreases of they go over)

Then have the cheek to call those lakes, "wild" when they are clearly managed. Since IFI themselves have said that pike are native to Ireland, they could well be in breach of EU law. I know a pair of well known anglers are looking into taking this, and working with MEPs.

blackpearl wrote: »

how many so called trout lakes 5 or six leave the trout men alone the country is full of pike lakes but do agree about killing of pike they should be transported to other lakes in good nick.

I fully disagree, nobody owns those lakes, any angler should be able to fish them for pike or trout, even more so when tax payers money is being wasted removing pike.

blackpearl

twin_beacon wrote: »

Before I say anything, I'm an all around angler. Coarse/Pike/Game/Sea.

The whole removing of pike, its a perfect example of how backward things are in this country.
A few figures from the stock management plan.

1. Total cost of the man power for the gill netting and electro fishing: roughly €120k.
2. Total figure of pike they hope to remove: 5,640.
3. If they meet their targets, total cost to the tax payer per pike removed: roughly €21. (of course this figure increases if the don't reach the target, and decreases of they go over)

Then have the cheek to call those lakes, "wild" when they are clearly managed. Since IFI themselves have said that pike are native to Ireland, they could well be in breach of EU law. I know a pair of well known anglers are looking into taking this, and working with MEPs.




I fully disagree, nobody owns those lakes, any angler should be able to fish them for pike or trout, even more so when tax payers money is being wasted removing pike.

the goverement own sheelin ennell owl every lake or river running into the shannon i think you can fish all them lakes for trout and pike no dead baiting on shellin ennel and owl and season 1st march to 12 october.

ducati916

I am a Fisher man in the Sligo area for both pike and Trout, the smaller lakes and large stretches of river are more or less completely fished out of pike from years of people (Irish people) throwing them up on the bank, for that retarded statement, "ahh sure they'll eat all the Trout". Lakes like Arrow, Conn and Cullin are going to be the last refuge for these pike in the West, as they are large. If there euthanised from these lakes (and rivers) or even transported to other lakes, there probably going to be mistreated in these lakes again and pike fishing in the West will be completely lost.

Stop the Gill netting, let the pike and Trout live side by side as they did for thousands of years, it is clearly not the pike affecting the Trout population, if it was surely they should all have been eaten up, say a hundred years ago when there was no Gill netting.

The guy who mentioned getting on to the European union is a good call, I signed the petition on the petition site recently, that needs to be handed in before the Gill netting starts. People need to get on to the minister for agricultural/fishing. That will be my next port of call.

Where I live anyway in Sligo. Pike are in real danger of being wiped out, there is plenty of Trout. How can IfI be compliset in the destruction of a native Irish fish species!!

SeaFields

Mod. Reopened after several posts deleted. This thread is to discuss the matter raised in the OP, namely the IFI policy. Not foreign anglers. The charter is clear. No more off topic posts please.

thefisherbuy

Is many going to the expo for the protest can't make it myself would like to know if there's many going!

kildare lad

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Is many going to the expo for the protest can't make it myself would like to know if there's many going!

gonna make it, either day i dont know!!

SeaFields

Lads, I know we have a few regulars that regularly discuss the fact they are working with the IFI but received this via PM by a boardsie that didn't want to identify themselves as an IFI employee who would like it added to the discussion.

Please don't conflate policy as dictated by management with the attitude of staff on the ground. There is huge disquiet within IFI at the policy, which is pushed by a select few individuals. Most staff who take an interest are against pike culling but have no say in policy.

I want to clarify that not all of us are virulent pike haters, we are just trying to do our job in difficult circumstances and the last thing we need on the ground is anglers who hate us because of the decisions of misguided managers.

thefisherbuy

SeaFields wrote: »

Lads, I know we have a few regulars that regularly discuss the fact they are working with the IFI but received this via PM by a boardsie that didn't want to identify themselves as an IFI employee who would like it added to the discussion.

Yes the "shot callers" are the ones who are incorrect there all game anglers and nothing else they think the that pike and other fish are the reason for the decline In trout which is totally incorrect.. as I said I've met a good lot of good ifi staff and some not so, it's nice to see some of the staff aren't as thick minded!!

Fisherbuy

kildare lad

SeaFields wrote: »

Lads, I know we have a few regulars that regularly discuss the fact they are working with the IFI but received this via PM by a boardsie that didn't want to identify themselves as an IFI employee who would like it added to the discussion.

In fairness i did say in my first comment that the one or two staff that ive met on my travels were capable individuals, i got to know one of them well enough when i used to fish a local river of mine. I even met him on his day off trying to catch a fella keepin fish, and i know of another fella who does a hell of a lot of work on the ground too. The district inspector that retired recently, also gave me his number to contact him if i seen anything goin on. So they're not all bad.
But theres no denying that theres a serious hatred for pike in the management. Sure didnt 17 IFI employees from the west actually push for the culling of pike, after it had been stopped recently due to them been filmed electrofishing the clare river. You had Ciaran Byrne blabbering on the radio the other week, about how much nets that they found and how many prosecutions they've made. yet come next month, when the gill nets are down, the IFI will be the biggest fish killers in the country. Its an absolute disgrace, As a predominately coarse angler how am i meant to respect an organisation like that????

ducati916

The guys in the IfI that don't agree with the pike culling should strike, mobilise and put it to the management in letter or whatever way you feel is best. Of course you guys didn't sign up to kill fish, so don't do it. I personally would refuse to do it (I know that's easy for me to say), but atleast you have your integrity and don't have the guilt of killing thousands of pike. So mobilise the troops n put it too your management...

If that doesn't work, just don't kill the pike, move them, there are a bunch of lakes near lough Arrow (just gonna talk about the area I know best) that are fished out. In the report it seems ye don't have the funds to move all the fish. Then WAIT, wait till ye have the funds and resources rather than kill thousands of fish, what's the rush, then just move the fish alive if ye have to move them at all.

If ye have to bother the pike, move them alive, if ye cull them, it's gonna be a **** atmosphere for you guys to work in, and for us guys to fish in. We all just want to get along and fish in peace, that's what it's all about. Just don't kill the pike, your there to protect them.

kildare lad

Its their members in the west that do it. Many of them are members of trout clubs so they're only to delighted to get rid of them. Didnt one of the IFI's board members have a b&b on the corrib so that should be a conflict of interest there.
Have you seen the video where they're putting the pike in a mortar in with about 7 or 8 inches of water in it. No aerator, nothing. Seriously it was sickening watching it. Its like they do what they want in the west and stick two fingers up to everyone else.
They claim to be understaffed, which they are. I think theres only 2 or 3 bailiffs to cover the greater dublin area including kildare. They mainly be up and down the liffey, which still gets poached by the way.
But when it comes to gill netting they seems to have plenty of allocated funds,staff, boats to do the job. These people are getting paid by us the taxpayers to protect are fisheries, not decimate them even further,and all they've accomplished is to drive a wedge between us anglers. After the widespread epidemic of poaching over the last decade or so,would it not make more sense to relocate the fish instead of killing them. Calling them braindead would be an understatment.