Health Service is fecked

laugh

Anybody watching RTE Investigates - Waiting lists, at the moment?

It's really shocking that these people are left in such a terrible way for so long.

HeidiHeidi

I had to turn it off. Too depressing.

God help them all, is all I can say :mad:

Your health really is your wealth.

Elemonator

Well spotted.

I cannot figure it out. It's just decades of mismanagement and lack of accountability. It has adequate funding and more. If I was Taoiseach for a day, I'd hire expert manager and free doctors from managerial roles they have no experience in and build more hospitals and continue hiring at reasonable salaries.

Though I'd need more than a day to implement such common sense

Arghus

It sure is.

jimmy blevins

Bring back the nuns to run healthcare.

123balltv

I play the lotto with the hope of sending my family young and old abroad for treatment
those Children are a credit to their Parents very brave.

corcaigh1

An absolute fcuking disgrace in 2016 ireland and leaving kids in that condition, my blood is boiling...

Anita Blow

The dog on the street knows what needs to be done. The thousands of redundant admin staff need to be let go and money pumped into hiring more doctors, opening up more training posts for medical/surgical specialties under pressure. The HSE also needs to lift its salary cap for some categories of consultants and aggressively recruit such posts from abroad, particularly paediatrics.

muddypaws

Elemonator wrote: »

Well spotted.

I cannot figure it out. It's just decades of mismanagement and lack of accountability. It has adequate funding and more. If I was Taoiseach for a day, I'd hire expert manager and free doctors from managerial roles they have no experience in and build more hospitals and continue hiring at reasonable salaries.

Though I'd need more than a day to implement such common sense

Is this not part of the problem, too many managers? The managers at the top get high wages, money that could go into the actual service?

Kimbot

Is this a ghost thread from boards original days? :pac:

Andrewf20

An absolute farce. That poor girl with rods in her back. For it to get as bad as it did before it got seen too. A joke.

A stitch in time saves 9 and all that.

Del2005

Elemonator wrote: »

Well spotted.

I cannot figure it out. It's just decades of mismanagement and lack of accountability. It has adequate funding and more. If I was Taoiseach for a day, I'd hire expert manager and free doctors from managerial roles they have no experience in and build more hospitals and continue hiring at reasonable salaries.

Though I'd need more than a day to implement such common sense

They merged over a dozen health boards into the HSE with no redundancies. So it's safe to assume that there are at least 10 people too many in most support roles and all getting extremely well paid, the nurses and doctors were never duplicated.

With the huge payroll for backroom staff and the hiring freeze the people with the transferable skills, nurses and doctors, left for better pay and conditions while the people with non transferable skills stayed, the 10 extra backroom people with no work.

laugh

The number of these people that have developed clinical depression because of the poor service delivered is fucking disgusting.

kupus

It will take someone with the balls of Maggie Thatcher to deal with the HSE. As soon as any changes are made the unions get into a tizzy and all hell break loose.
Also time for these middle managers to be pensioned off. All they do is slow up the line while they justify their jobs

The_Valeyard

It deeply worrying!!

Not sure why we cant get a system that works but is also paid through general taxation similar to the french model??

Broken Hearted Road

laugh wrote: »

Anybody watching RTE Investigates - Waiting lists, at the moment?

It's really shocking that these people are left in such a terrible way for so long.

It's appalling. I cried watching the girl with a loose plate in her back and an infection.

I know a family going to England for surgery. Waiting list is too long in crumlin.

lawred2

Pay rises and pension bumps for back office and HSE admin staff should sort all this mess out.

whiskeyman

Odd how the same country protests about water charges, but couldn't be arsed mobilising a protest or movement over this...

Mars Bar

Is Daragh's Dad one third of the fupin' eejits a.k.a The Irish Take?

How they let the young lad go from needing rods to a halo traction is awful.

Ulysses Gaze

The health budget for 2016 is €14.6 billion. It was roughly the same every year under Fianna Fail.

Yet under this Gov, and every previous FF Government for the last 20 years, no improvements.

That much money every year is enough to run a world class health system in a country with the population of Ireland.

There are 100,000 people employed in the HSE.

Read the article from the Times. No doubt none of these managers is on less than €80,000 to €100,000 a year minimum.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-staffing-number-of-senior-health-managers-rises-1.2545850

What is interesting is in September 2007 there were 41 people at director/chief executive level in the HSE, voluntary hospitals and agencies. By October 2012 this had fallen to 25 and increased to 27 in December 2014.
However, by December 2015 the number of directors/chief executives had risen to 42.

In 2007 there were 22 assistant national directors, while by December 2014 this number had increased to 76.

However, within a year in December 2015, there were 95 staff at assistant national director level.

At general manager grade, the number of staff employed increased from 213 to 279 between December 2014 and December 2015.

And this bit sums it up:

The HSE said there were 1,327 staff at management level - grade VIII and above - compared with 8,100 doctors and nearly 35,000 nurses.

Gen.Zhukov

Heartbreaking stuff. Everyone knows about the waiting lists for years but documentaries like this really show the reality.

With all the hype about the doc recently, I thought RTE were milking it a bit. But it was justified.

Union protected managers/admin staff is the problem and no politician has the balls to take them on.

Azatadine

This is so hard to watch....poor little kids. It really is heartbreaking.

Pawwed Rig

whiskeyman wrote: »

Odd how the same country protests about water charges, but couldn't be arsed mobilising a protest or movement over this...

Romania is an example for us. Half a million people on the street against a government corruption ruling. Yet we bitch and moan about irrelevant shyte while leaving the worst off people suffer.

4068ac1elhodqr

Like everything else, send in the Robots.

There will be a bit of noise about it in the coming days and promises will be made. All will go quiet and in another couple of years the same problems will appear on another documentary.
People in Ireland don't give a hoot and won't rise up about anything unless it hits them directly in the pocket like water charges did.
It is shockingly bad and made worse by the 2 tier health system we have in Ireland. If you can pay for it, you can jump to the top of the waiting list or rather, the waiting lists don't apply.

SlinkyL

They purposefully run down public services to the point where anyone who can afford to will pay privately, the ultimate aim is to privatise all health care services. While this goes on in our publicly funded hospitals every second ad one newstalk etc is for mater private. This is no accident. Education is going the same way...it may be a few decades off but it is becoming so underfunded that our public schools will be avoided by anyone who can afford to avoid... Our current education minister already engaging in public/private newly built schools. Watch how that plays out..
Publicly funded housing stopped in 80s and now we're all on the hook for massive mortgages or languishing on waiting lists or in emergency accommodation. This is no accident, this is what they want. Run down public services to the point where they only option is for private sector to take over and hey presto, private entities get their hands on our publicly paid for services and before you know it, they're turning a profit for the 1%.

hawkelady

What's really sad is that after a day or two of this heartbreaking show on joe Duffy. It will be forgotten about and it'll be exactly the same as a week ago.

RD10

absolutely disgraceful. god help those people on the waiting lists.

Ulysses Gaze

Miah Tasteless Professor wrote: »

Like everything else, send in the Robots.

And, as usual, the Japanese are way ahead of the rest of us.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/japan-developing-carebots-for-elderly-care-2015-11?r=US&IR=T

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

It's difficult for those who can't afford health insurance, but since we are comparing countries, private health care should be compulsory as like in Germany.

4068ac1elhodqr

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

And, as usual, the Japanese are way ahead of the rest of us.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/japan-developing-carebots-for-elderly-care-2015-11?r=US&IR=T

They can also replace all the admin pen-pushers too using Watson's Cloud consciousness. The Nurses will probably be the very last to be replaced (if ever) as they're invaluable, regardless of developments. Part-time (Contracting) Surgeons could however probably be replaced quickly by something with 8 arms.

laugh

Katelyn Uninterested Beetle wrote: »

It's difficult for those who can't afford health insurance, but since we are comparing countries, private health care should be compulsory as like in Germany.

How about operating the country in such a way that public sector wages don't need to continually increase so a nurse, guard, etc can rent or buy a home.

I've a friend in Munich who is eligible to rent certain apartments at a lower cost because she is a nurse.

Ulysses Gaze

Miah Tasteless Professor wrote: »

They can also replace all the admin pen-pushers too using Watson's Cloud consciousness. The Nurses will probably be the very last to be replaced (if ever) as they're invaluable, regardless of developments. Part-time (Contracting) Surgeons could however probably be replaced quickly by something with 8 arms.

With the ability to run 24 hour operating theatres.

Johnnio13

If any private company merged similar to the health boards of old, there would be large scale redundancies with re - interviewing for roles. This streamlines the new organisation without losing key staff. Backward thinking, unions, jobs for the boys have brought us to where we are today.
I'm disgusted watching this.

ChikiChiki

laugh wrote: »

Anybody watching RTE Investigates - Waiting lists, at the moment?

It's really shocking that these people are left in such a terrible way for so long.

People should be out in huge numbers marching on this. This affects us all. Disgraceful stuff.

La.de.da

Very difficult watch. It's frightening health system on it's knees.

screamer

Bull**** and more bull**** from politicians, ringing their hands and unable to do anything. Mass redundancies for the layers and layers of pen pushers to claw back money and get those children their operations. Seeing children suffering in agony in a first world country is disgusting, hang your heads in shame politicians and the juggernaut that is the HSE......

Berserker

Johnnio13 wrote: »

If any private company merged similar to the health boards of old, there would be large scale redundancies with re - interviewing for roles. This streamlines the new organisation without losing key staff. Backward thinking, unions, jobs for the boys have brought us to where we are today. I'm disgusted watching this.

It is an utter shambles of a system and it is going to take ten years or more to fix it. Any political party that claims that they can fix that within the lifetime of a government is lying to us. The unions have the place destroyed and the amount of red tape that people have to go through to do even the simplest task has to be seen to be believed. Trying to break the stranglehold that they have on the system would be extraordinarily difficult.

screamer wrote: »

Bull**** and more bull**** from politicians, ringing their hands and unable to do anything. Mass redundancies for the layers and layers of pen pushers to claw back money and get those children their operations. Seeing children suffering in agony in a first world country is disgusting, hang your heads in shame politicians and the juggernaut that is the HSE......

And if they attempted to tackle those pen pushers (union members) what would happen?

corcaigh1

Mars Bar wrote: »

Is Daragh's Dad one third of the fupin' eejits a.k.a The Irish Take?

How they let the young lad go from needing rods to a halo traction is awful.

yup...

Andrewf20

I'm always interested in the actual problem statement with problems like this with the health service. I'm watching the interview with the health minister there on prime time. Mr Harris mentioned the 3 priorities as:

Primary care - not sure what the problem statement is here.
Nurse staff levels - can we up their salaries to incentivise recruitment?
Extra beds - can we build more rooms and buy beds?

Would these simple solutions make a difference? If not, what am I missing?

Andrewf20

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I'm always interested in the actual problem statement with problems like this with the health service. I'm watching the interview with the health minister there on prime time. Mr Harris mentioned the 3 priorities as:

Would these simple solutions make a difference? If not, what am I missing?

This is why the HSE was set up, to allow the health minister and other politicians to direct and avoid critism...

_Brian

Elemonator wrote: »

Well spotted.

I cannot figure it out. It's just decades of mismanagement and lack of accountability. It has adequate funding and more. If I was Taoiseach for a day, I'd hire expert manager and free doctors from managerial roles they have no experience in and build more hospitals and continue hiring at reasonable salaries.

Though I'd need more than a day to implement such common sense

In fairness that was tried already, they went through a tranche of hiring business managers in and having them run the show.

It all came to a head when staff were directed not to use the word patient as it carried too much emotion, they were to be called "service users" as that had less emotion attached!!
Anyhow, the unions resisted any change and over time these managers either left, were moved sideways or pensioned off early at considerable cost.

Only change that suits the union adjenda will really happen, and the union adjenda is to better conditions for its members - not run a more efficient health service.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

laugh wrote: »

How about operating the country in such a way that public sector wages don't need to continually increase so a nurse, guard, etc can rent or buy a home.

Yea, that would be nice, but that's reforming the entire public sector, not just a part of it. Private health insurance would help quite a lot.

Anybody have any figures for what admin staff get paid. What is admin staff and why are they redundant?

andekwarhola

Elemonator wrote: »

I cannot figure it out. It's just decades of mismanagement and lack of accountability. It has adequate funding and more

Highest ratio of government expenditure in the EU and second-highest in OECD IIRC.

Beggars belief.

Bloated levels of politically protected, union-bolstered apparatchicks basically.

screamer

Katelyn Uninterested Beetle wrote: »

Yea, that would be nice, but that's reforming the entire public sector, not just a part of it. Private health insurance would help quite a lot.

Anybody have any figures for what admin staff get paid. What is admin staff and why are they redundant?

For legacy admin staff far too fecking much. Newer entrants lowly paid.

Anita Blow

Katelyn Uninterested Beetle wrote: »

laugh wrote: »

How about operating the country in such a way that public sector wages don't need to continually increase so a nurse, guard, etc can rent or buy a home.

Yea, that would be nice, but that's reforming the entire public sector, not just a part of it. Private health insurance would help quite a lot.

Anybody have any figures for what admin staff get paid. What is admin staff and why are they redundant?

http://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/1st-January-2016-Consolidated-salary-scales.pdf
A local health office manager starts in 83,200 euro for example

Jack Chambers TD there signalling to the medical unions he's on their side :rolleyes: and says "management is totally unaccountable".


This will all blow over in a few days and we will return to the scandal of post offices closing and automatic libraries with no staff

mikeoneilly

How do our administration costs and Admin /medical staff ratio compare to rest of EU

screamer

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Jack Chambers TD there signalling to the medical unions he's on their side :rolleyes: and says "management is totally unaccountable".


This will all blow over in a few days and we will return to the scandal of post offices closing and automatic libraries with no staff

Meanwhile there's kids out there crying themselves to sleep waiting on operations. We're a bunch of idiots to accept this status quo.

Gen.Zhukov

Katelyn Uninterested Beetle wrote: »

Yea, that would be nice, but that's reforming the entire public sector, not just a part of it. Private health insurance would help quite a lot.

Anybody have any figures for what admin staff get paid. What is admin staff and why are they redundant?

Dunno about admin but I do know someone in a mid management role in HSE HQ and it's €110k. I asked this person about a fairly simple problem relevant to the dept they were a manager of and they looked at me like I asked what size is a timing sprocket in a 1967 morris minor 1000.

This person will retire on about €50k PA.

realdanbreen

It never ceases to amaze me how we not alone have a constant crisis in the health service but we have no solution in sight. Surely there is an equivalent model(population size/demographic) somewhere in the world that is working better that we could copy?