The American love for its armed forces

blackcard

At the Superbowl they show a clip of the American armed forces in Kuwait and the crowd give a spontaneous cheer. Couldn't imagine that happening in Croke Park if they had a clip of our army. The US seems to have a reverence and utter respect for their army personnel.I don't get it. They are doing a job for which they are gettig paid. The recruits seem to be practically brainwashed during training. Why the degree of respect?

silverharp

take a shower you dirty hippy!

Hilly Bill

Americans are gullible, they believe that they are out there to keep them safe back home.

DanielODonnell

They are the same as the British in that regard, you dare not say a bad word about a soldier, though you do get the odd person who will admit their wrongdoings.

AnGaelach

blackcard wrote: »

At the Superbowl they show a clip of the American armed forces in Kuwait and the crowd give a spontaneous cheer. Couldn't imagine that happening in Croke Park if they had a clip of our army. The US seems to have a reverence and utter respect for their army personnel.I don't get it. They are doing a job for which they are gettig paid. The recruits seem to be practically brainwashed during training. Why the degree of respect?

Did you miss the 1916 Celebrations, perchance? Most people have a pride in their military, it's nothing special to the Americans.

Arghus

If they get you to respect the troops, it's much harder for you to view what they do with a critical or objective point of view.

blackcard

AnGaelach wrote: »

Did you miss the 1916 Celebrations, perchance? Most people have a pride in their military, it's nothing special to the Americans.

The Americans are at a different level to the Irish or British in their fawning over their military

Terrlock

I could never join the army.

Mainly because I would not kill anyone, let alone kill someone for someone else's reasons.

martingriff

People are giving applause to people who they believe are risking there life I see nothing wrong with that. You want to boo or protest about the army go to the head not the ones in the front lines

BlinkingLights

Because the army has even bigger than than you can buy in the local supermarket and they absolutely love and are very impressed by guns and other weapons.

Unfortunately, the US is a little over enamoured with violence.

mzungu

Terrlock wrote: »

I could never join the army.

We were all part of Jackie's army at one time.

Thelomen Toblackai

Things like that are a bit simplistic in certain parts of the states. The US to a lot of people is the protector of freedom in the world and the US soldiers are the heroes on the front line protecting everyone from all the badness in the world.

But that's how you sell a population on war and human slaughter. You convince them they're the good guys and that they should tell their kids to sign up and be heroes...

mansize

Its cheaper than paying them well.

Go out and get killed for your country pay is shyte but you'll be a hero!

the evasion_kid

I'm part of a few different American Facebook groups and it's actually scary how hyped up on patriotism and nationalism they are!

"If only more of today's military personnel would realize that they are being used by the owning elite's as a publicly subsidized capitalist goon squad.....I spent 33 years in the Marines. Most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street" -Smedley D. Butler, Major General, U.S. Marines

maryishere

mansize wrote: »

Its cheaper than paying them well.

Go out and get killed for your country pay is shyte but you'll be a hero!

I feel sorry for those who lose limbs etc serving their country. There are example of triple amputees etc. Very sad, especially when the compensation they get is low compared to , for example, what our soldiers got for their army deafness claims. In our little army, about 16,500 claims were made, resulting in payouts totalling about €300m.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Army_deafness_claims

I think the Americans love their Armed forces because their armed forces have worked so hard for them, and many paying the ultimate price, down through the generations...sometimes defending America ( eg after the American Pearl harbour attacks....sometimes involved in some more dubious wars since eg vietnam )

Arghus

Being honest I think The UK isn't far behind, witness the piousness about the poppy that seems to get worse and worse every passing year.

Zebra3

Haha!! Defending America!!

America is a vile aggressive empire.

nhunter100

maryishere wrote:

I think the Americans love their Armed forces because their armed forces have worked so hard for them, and many paying the ultimate price, down through the generations...sometimes defending America ( eg after the American Pearl harbour attacks....sometimes involved in some more dubious wars since eg vietnam )

Vietnam is dubious? I would call the Mai lei massacre slightly more than dubious under the Hague convention it would be classed as a war crime.

cerastes

maryishere wrote: »

I feel sorry for those who lose limbs etc serving their country. There are example of triple amputees etc. Very sad, especially when the compensation they get is low compared to , for example, what our soldiers got for their army deafness claims. In our little army, about 16,500 claims were made, resulting in payouts totalling about €300m.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Army_deafness_claims

I think the Americans love their Armed forces because their armed forces have worked so hard for them, and many paying the ultimate price, down through the generations...sometimes defending America ( eg after the American Pearl harbour attacks....sometimes involved in some more dubious wars since eg vietnam )

I dont think you get it? who do you work for? would you be happy if they left you with a permanent injury? anyway its a completely different statement to the topic of the thread. The Defence forces and Govt were negligent and foolish.
You sound like you are defending the US military machine, who you say worked hard for who? US citizens? the US miltitary work for the US govt who is at the behest of whatever the political and economic agenda is.
Defending America? from who, after WW2 who attacked the US militarily? they even went after the wrong people for 9-11.

edit prior to that, since after the US Civil War, once they completed their own expansion and complete destruction of the indigenious people there, they cut a swathe through Central America, the Caribbean, and then South America, and then the World.
Look I know and have met many people in the US, many are very nice, and Im sure individually members of their armed forces are too, but the US and the Military are not the good guys, was at some airshows and it was embarrasing and plain to see people have been brainwashed, (I like aircraft) but aside from the horrific cost, they are tools of military and economic oppression.

Comparing deafness claims to the national jingoistic bravado in the US of people supporting what are essentially poorer people in an armed force killing and subduing other nations for political and financial gain in other countries is astounding, you seem to have been affected by their propoganda machine too. They are the armed wing of their political system. They arent unwilling citizen soldiers manning the thin red line against the barbarian hordes, they destroy nations. The cost of US wars (influenced by whomever are their paymasters are) are uncountable in destroyed lives, the cost financially I would say is uncounted in the destruction of economies, infrastructure.

Look, I'll boil it down simply, this is AH, if this was Star Wars, they would be the Empire.
If you think the US military are the nice policeman of the World defending freedom and democracy you've taken the bait, hook line, sinker, the lot.

maryishere

nhunter100 wrote: »

Vietnam is dubious? .

Yes, although the thinking among many at the time (in some western countries) was that it was fighting communism, and communism was sweeping through countries like dominoes falling, and it had to be stopped.
The US put a lot in to fighting communism / the cold war. Seeing what happened behind the Iron Curtain, I am grateful the USA and UK etc stood up for western values. But I still think Vietnam was probably a big mistake though. But one thing for sure : but for the US and UK, western Europe would probably be under Soviet ( if not Nazi ) control. I think the US /UK are fairer regimes, certainly towards us.

maryishere

cerastes wrote: »

If you think the US military are the nice policeman of the World defending freedom and democracy you've taken the bait, hook line, sinker, the lot.

They are not perfect, but who saved us from Nazism / Soviet aggression? Who liberated little Kuwait after it was invaded by Iraq, the the 4th biggest army in the world?

Tom Mann Centuria

maryishere wrote: »

They are not perfect, but who saved us from Nazism / Soviet aggression? Who liberated little Kuwait after it was invaded by Iraq, the the 4th biggest army in the world?

Who has created power vacuums in countries around the world that have been filled by the new "baddies". The US, the UK (and France with Libya)

nhunter100

maryishere wrote:

Yes, although the thinking among many at the time (in some western countries) was that it was fighting communism, and communism was sweeping through countries like dominoes falling, and it had to be stopped. The US put a lot in to fighting communism / the cold war. Seeing what happened behind the Iron Curtain, I am grateful the USA and UK etc stood up for western values. But I still think Vietnam was probably a big mistake though. But one thing for sure : but for the US and UK, western Europe would probably be under Soviet ( if not Nazi ) control. I think the US /UK are fairer regimes, certainly towards us.

Nice how you cropped my response to ignore the war crime the Americans carried out. Between 340 and 500 old men, women and children murdered by an American platoon. All about the body count. Didn't matter if it was combatants or civilians.

nhunter100

maryishere wrote:

They are not perfect, but who saved us from Nazism / Soviet aggression? Who liberated little Kuwait after it was invaded by Iraq, the the 4th biggest army in the world?

Without the Soviets checking the Nazis chances are this text would be in German.

maryishere

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Who has created power vacuums in countries around the world that have been filled by the new "baddies". The US, the UK (and France with Libya)

They are damned if they do, damned if they do not. Do you agree with the big coalition force from many countries ( but mainy the US and UK ) which liberated Kuwait from Iraq , after Iraq invaded it?

corner of hells

Terrlock wrote: »

I could never join the army.

Mainly because I would not kill anyone, let alone kill someone for someone else's reasons.

Terrlock wrote: »

I could never join the army.

Mainly because I would not kill anyone, let alone kill someone for someone else's reasons.

Didn't you see Hacksaw Ridge? The lead actor was conscientious objectector who managed to kill the whole Japanese army and come first and win a shiney medal.

Anyways youse will be sorry when Manic Moran arrives to talk his particular brand of bollix.

corner of hells

nhunter100 wrote: »

maryishere wrote:

They are not perfect, but who saved us from Nazism / Soviet aggression? Who liberated little Kuwait after it was invaded by Iraq, the the 4th biggest army in the world?

Without the Soviets checking the Nazis chances are this text would be in German.

Without the "mericans chances are these posts would be in Russian , we'd all be 6'4" and our women would be stunning looking but would look the had a poker stuck up their arses.

nhunter100

corner of hells wrote:

Without the "mericans chances are these posts would be in Russian , we'd all be 6'4" and our women would be stunning looking but would look the had a poker stuck up their arses.

Sounds good, could deal with the 'poker look' if it got rid of the 'muffin top'.

Pherekydes

Terrlock wrote: »

I could never join the army.

Mainly because I would not kill anyone, let alone kill someone for someone else's reasons.

The Irish Naval Service has saved over 10000 people in the Med in the last 2 years.

The Air Corps performed 68 air ambulances and nearly 400 emergency aeromedical support missions in 2015.

The Army has been involved in UN peacekeeping missions since 1958.

The PDF is not all about killing people.

Red Kev

maryishere wrote: »

They are not perfect, but who saved us from Nazism / Soviet aggression? Who liberated little Kuwait after it was invaded by Iraq, the the 4th biggest army in the world?

Who put Saddam Hussein in power and kept him there, even when he slaughtered his own for decades? The USA, (as well as several other western countries).

Who said to the Iraqis in summer 1990 that they have no problem with Iraq's complaint about Kuwait stealing their oil? (which Kuwait were), essentially paving the way for Iraq to invade Kuwait? Yep, the USA again.

Who told the Kurds and Marsh Arabs and citizens of Basra to stand up to Hussein and they would be backed up for it, then abandoned them just before victory and allowed thousands of them to be slaughtered? That would be the USA too.

Oh, here's a pic of donald Rumsfeld having a laugh with Saddam Hussein. http://horsesass.org/wp-content/uploads/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg


BTW; iraq did not have the 4th biggest army in the world. If you want to count reservists then Switzerland, Germany and France alone all had bigger armies than Iraq at the time. Pure propoganda.

And have a read of this if you want, it'll give you an idea of how geo-politics really works: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/01/farzad-bazoft-journalist-iraq-executed-saddam-hussein-thatcher

BTW in Rambo II the Mujahideen were the good guys, as they were in The Living Daylights. Today they run calling themselves the Taliban, Al-Qaida or ISIS. They were trained by the US for decades, Osama Bin Laden was simply one of their best students.

You need to open your eyes.

FlawedGenius

Too much call of duty and shooting games bill

riffmongous

maryishere wrote: »

They are damned if they do, damned if they do not. Do you agree with the big coalition force from many countries ( but mainy the US and UK ) which liberated Kuwait from Iraq , after Iraq invaded it?

Let's not forget Iraq was in a position to invade Kuwait in the first place because of US assistance during the war against Iran

Gatling

Red Kev wrote: »

BTW in Rambo II the Mujahideen were the good guys, as they were in The Living Daylights. Today they run calling themselves the Taliban, Al-Qaida or ISIS. They were trained by the US for decades, Osama Bin Laden was simply one of their best students.

You need to open your eyes.

Much like the movies quoted pure fiction unfortunately.

cerastes

maryishere wrote: »

They are not perfect, but who saved us from Nazism / Soviet aggression? Who liberated little Kuwait after it was invaded by Iraq, the the 4th biggest army in the world?

Kuwait? What about poor little Belgium, think of the Belgians, wasnt that a call to arms in what would be later named WW1, the Great War, where millions were thrown into the meat grinder. All the while the poor Belgians were brutally well used to hacking the hands off their slaves in SW Africa.

Kuwait is more an artificial country than most, lines drawn on a map not based on much, Iraq was fooled into thinking rolling in on tanls was ok, The Kuwaitis were slant drilling their oil too. While I disagree with invading any sovereign country, there was more to it than that, it was an excuse to get into a war.
The 4th Biggest army in the world means squat, the Iraqis never had a chance, first you had to inflate the bogeyman to invoke fear, build him up, then take him down.
As for Nazism, what lead to that? British imperialism, and the imposition of unreasonable terms post WW1
This system was later co opted by the US foreign policy.

Its just not as simple as you are making out, but to keep this idea you need a fresh source of new meat for the grinder, you have to get people to willingly volunteer to want to join a military force, knowing full well they will have to kill people in situations they dont agree with, you need to have a system of propganda to bring in new blood and demonising the evils of anyone who opposes you, because people see whats going on when they are involved and if they have a shred of humanity, they will recognise it, they either lock that out for fear of being ostracised or they stand up and say its wrong, they are then viewed badly.

In reality it all goes much deeper than we know, but Nazism didnt just come from no where, as for Soviet aggresion, well that didnt either, but the Russians had a history and fear of invasion before Barbarossa, from the Poles, even the White Russians and their backers after WW1 (ie the US/Britain), they have always traded land/distance and the elements for time and any military technical inferiority, that was more of a balance as you can say NATO was and still is as aggressive as the Warsaw pact, neither side could ever have come off good in a conventional conflict. The Soviets had just suffered one of many large invasions/occupations, some of which are barely mentioned, they were hardly going to just put down their weapons after May 1945, not that I support Stalinism in any way, but overall the US postwar was more vicious to its neighbours in the Americas than the Soviets were to theirs in the same timeframe.

maryishere

Red Kev wrote: »

You need to open your eyes.

lol. My eyes are very open. You did not answer the questions. I wrote: They are not perfect, but who saved us from Nazism / Soviet aggression? Who liberated little Kuwait after it was invaded by Iraq?

maryishere

cerastes wrote: »

, but overall the US postwar was more vicious to its neighbours in the Americas than the Soviets were to theirs in the same timeframe.

The US helped much of the free world post WW2....even those it fought against eg the Marshall plan, Berlin airlift etc.

corner of hells

Pherekydes wrote: »

Terrlock wrote: »

I could never join the army.

Mainly because I would not kill anyone, let alone kill someone for someone else's reasons.

The Irish Naval Service has saved over 10000 people in the Med in the last 2 years.

The Air Corps performed 68 air ambulances and nearly 400 emergency aeromedical support missions in 2015.

The Army has been involved in UN peacekeeping missions since 1958.

The PDF is not all about killing people.

I think if you save somebody's life , you should be allowed keep them.

maryishere

corner of hells wrote: »

I think if you save somebody's life , you should be allowed keep them.

lol. I'd love to see the navy take take the 10,000 people they took out of the med, back to Cobh.
Plenty of ghost estates in the west to put them in.

If the navy were not there to pick them up once they got 10 miles off the coast of Libya, the people smugglers would not be encouraged to smuggle them in the first place.

krissovo

As a Irishman who served in the British army and commanded American troops as well as worked and lived in the states I can say it's refreshing.

They respect the troops because they do a job the leadership orders them to do regardless of consequence. They also respect all military perceived on "their" side. I gauantee a Irish soldier would get the same discount in a resterant as a US soldier if they ask and show I'd. They respect any serviceman who is perceived on their side so the same courtesy is applied to the British etc.

To be honest it's a brilliant marketing coup since the US military went professional and business have been offered tax breaks to support servicemen and women. It has snowballed since then to where we are today where it an honour to send your children to serve.

The comparison to the British military and poppy (remembrance Sunday) is chalk and cheese.

Red Kev

maryishere wrote: »

lol. My eyes are very open. You did not answer the questions. I wrote: They are not perfect, but who saved us from Nazism / Soviet aggression? Who liberated little Kuwait after it was invaded by Iraq?

The Russians saved us from the Nazis, as they soaked up so much German men, machinery and resources that what was left was totally demoralised and weak.

The Americans, British, French and nations of western Europe stopped a Russian advance into western Europe in the 1950's (the Russians were too exhausted of men and machinery in 1945 to do this). Kudos as well to Willy Brandt and his Ostpolitik that he did in face of US opposition as he realised that the whole stand off was a pile of bollix.

Kuwait was a pawn. You need to reaslise that. The US have lusted after a base in the Middle East for decades, now they have those bases in Saudi Arabia, so they control the security of the people who control the oil taps. Nice.

The US has never almost acted in the interests of it's own people, or the interests of any other people on earth. They do what's necessary to keep the gravy train going for those in power at that given moment in time.

Once you start to scratch at the surface you'll see a seriously dirty system underneath. Everybody loses whilst a very small number of people win.

FlawedGenius

Americsns are craaaaaxy thats another factor

Pherekydes

maryishere wrote: »

If the navy were not there to pick them up once they got 10 miles off the coast of Libya, the people smugglers would not be encouraged to smuggle them in the first place.

If a few people drown the smugglers will stop?

Evidence says otherwise...

Killergreene

I love the respect the Americans have for their troops. They are protecting the free world. Risking their lives. Keeping the Muslim terrorists at bay.

cerastes

maryishere wrote: »

lol. My eyes are very open. You did not answer the questions. I wrote: They are not perfect, but who saved us from Nazism / Soviet aggression? Who liberated little Kuwait after it was invaded by Iraq?

They answered you, I answered you, whats your comment on the replies?
Look up US war crimes/atrocities.
As Ive already said, the situations you mention didnt spring from nowhere.
Had Kuwait not been taken back, it would have not made a bit of difference to anyone had it been part of Iraq and they came into the Western fold and sold the oil to the west along with Saudi under favourble circumstances.
It just didnt serve US and their backers financial purposes to have Kuwait as part of iraq, its better to deal with a small entity for them.

Same reason the British were happy to have a broken up German states than have a continental opponent in Europe post Napoleon, easier to deal with small entities than a unified nation, which an ultimately unified Germany challenged British Empire power in Europe.
The US is as happy to not deal with a unified entity.

maryishere

Pherekydes wrote: »

If a few people drown the smugglers will stop?

The Irish navy helps the People Smugglers in their objective of getting their clients landed on Italian ( EU ) soil.

I do not think the Navy would be as quick if they had to bring them back to this country, and look after them here.

maryishere

cerastes wrote: »

I answered you,

But you were wrong to the 2 questions. The US / UK helped save us from Nazi / Soviet aggression. ( the Soviets did not do it on their own in WW2 : think of the Arctic convoys etc , and the UK stood alone against Germany in 1940 ).

The US / UK were the driving force behind the coalition to liberate Kuwait.

cerastes

krissovo wrote: »

As a Irishman who served in the British army and commanded American troops as well as worked and lived in the states I can say it's refreshing.

They respect the troops because they do a job the leadership orders them to do regardless of consequence. They also respect all military perceived on "their" side. I gauantee a Irish soldier would get the same discount in a resterant as a US soldier if they ask and show I'd. They respect any serviceman who is perceived on their side so the same courtesy is applied to the British etc.

To be honest it's a brilliant marketing coup since the US military went professional and business have been offered tax breaks to support servicemen and women. It has snowballed since then to where we are today where it an honour to send your children to serve die at the behest of politicians and corporations.

The comparison to the British military and poppy (remembrance Sunday) is chalk and cheese.

Essentially what you say is correct, its gotten to the point people are happy for their children to die for their Country.
When I was younger I was in the PDF, I get certain aspects of it, but it should not be an honour to send your children to do the bidding of their country when that bidding is to kill others, not to defend, but to subdue countries and other types of systems outside the Corporate greed machine.
I think people in the US in many cases are very nice, more so than here, and we will never hear about those that oppose the mainstream view, I think they are more likely to agitate for environmental and political beliefs than we are, but they frighteningly have a police state there, not so much in the vein of the Stasi, but if you fall out of line, you could come in for the kind of scrutiny that the Stasi could only have dreamed at having the means at their disposal.
The militarisation of ordinary police units against ordinary people is frightening, to say they or we are free or part of the free world etc is to say you have taken the blue pill.

nhunter100

maryishere wrote:

The US helped much of the free world post WW2....even those it fought against eg the Marshall plan, Berlin airlift etc.

The nonsense is strong in this one.

mansize

maryishere wrote: »

But you were wrong to the 2 questions. The US / UK helped save us from Nazi / Soviet aggression. ( the Soviets did not do it on their own in WW2 : think of the Arctic convoys etc , and the UK stood alone against Germany in 1940 ).

The US / UK were the driving force behind the coalition to liberate Kuwait.

We were a neutral country

maryishere

nhunter100 wrote: »

The nonsense is strong in this one.

Do not take my word for it so.
"The Marshall Plan (officially the European Recovery Program, ERP) was an American initiative to aid Western Europe, in which the United States gave over $12 billion[1] (approximately $120 billion in current dollar value as of June 2016) in economic support to help rebuild Western European economies after the end of World War II."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan
And who do you think stood up to Soviet aggression in the cold war?

nhunter100

Killergreene wrote:

I love the respect the Americans have for their troops. They are protecting the free world. Risking their lives. Keeping the Muslim terrorists at bay.

Sorry but bull**** is the only comment that fits.