Sexist dress codes in the workplace

DredFX

Article by Lorraine Courtney published on the Indo yesterday.

Read.

Written in response to receptionist Nicola Thorp's struggle with dress code, after she had been sent home on her first day at work in Pwc for refusing to wear shoes with 2-4 inch heels. It appears, to Lorraine, that a woman's appearance takes precedence over her qualifications and productivity, and it's something you'll find in television, politics, and even retail positions.

Ladies and employers of the Irish working world, do you think dress-code sexism is prevalent?

Dirty Dingus McGee

If anything it's the other way round.

Women are allowed to wear these ballet shoes in work which really are terribly unprofessional looking and shouldn't be allowed, men on the other hand have to wear proper shoes while in work.

There is way more leeway in general given to what women can wear in work compared to men.

Jawgap

DredFX wrote: »

Article by Lorraine Courtney published on the Indo yesterday.

Read.

Written in response to receptionist Nicola Thorp's struggle with dress code, after she had been sent home on her first day at work in Pwc for refusing to wear shoes with 2-4 inch heels. It appears, to Lorraine, that a woman's appearance takes precedence over her qualifications and productivity, and it's something you'll find in television, politics, and even retail positions.

Ladies and employers of the Irish working world, do you think dress-code sexism is prevalent?

Yes, the last place I was in that had a dress code didn't allow for lads to wear skirts.

DredFX

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Women are allowed to wear these ballet shoes in work which really are terribly unprofessional looking and shouldn't be allowed.

Flat shoes?

Shenshen

I do think it cuts both ways, I feel sorry for men having to wear suit and tie in August as well. Because sweat is a sign of professionality... or something.

But then I don't think that there are any professional attires for men that are actually detrimential to your health, such as high heels.

I generally find dress codes utterly ridiculous anyway. There's something utterly disfunctional about the idea that your employer gets to tell you how you should look. I wouldn't want to work for a compnay that has dress codes.

Mongfinder General

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FMtalKDuyio

I like high heels...

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Appearance is important. I wouldn't hire someone with a skillrex haircut, visible tattoos or facial piercings. I wouldn't hire a woman who came to an interview looking untidy or unkempt, I wouldn't hire someone who came to an interview wearing combats and a pair of docs.

Appearance is important. Either accept the company dress code, or find a job in another company. You're being paid to carry out a job and to represent a company. If you want to wear what you like, work for yourself.

riffmongous

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Appearance is important. I wouldn't hire someone with a skillrex haircut, visible tattoos or facial piercings. I wouldn't hire a woman who came to an interview looking untidy or unkempt, I wouldn't hire someone who came to an interview wearing combats and a pair of docs.

Appearance is important. Either accept the company dress code, or find a job in another company. You're being paid to carry out a job and to represent a company. If you want to wear what you like, work for yourself.

What if you owned a tattoo parlour?

Jawgap

riffmongous wrote: »

What if you owned a tattoo parlour?

Depending on the person's tattoos you might want to hire the person that inked them rather than them

the_pen_turner

What's a skill Rex haircut.


Your right Lexie . A minimum standard has to be kept. Especially when representing a company


Some companies take it to far thow

riffmongous

Jawgap wrote: »

Depending on the person's tattoos you might want to hire the person that inked them rather than them

Hehe true! But if I'm going under the needle i'd at least like to the think the guy doing it has some interest in his art

judeboy101

Might be a good way to make a quick buck. Arrive in to work dress liked a women and claim that you now identify as female, adhere to female dress code, following day come in as a man claiming you now identify as a man, repeat until HR pull you up on it, refuse to stop, get sacked and sue them for discrimination based on secuality/gender dimorphism?

One eyed Jack

Shenshen wrote: »

I do think it cuts both ways, I feel sorry for men having to wear suit and tie in August as well. Because sweat is a sign of professionality... or something.

If a person is sweating in a suit and tie, it's more an issue with their personal hygiene than anything to do with a company dress code though.

But then I don't think that there are any professional attires for men that are actually detrimential to your health, such as high heels.

High heels in and of themselves aren't detrimental to anyone's health. What's detrimental to a person's health is being unable to walk properly in high heels, that's not to mention the fact that many people (both men and women) choose to wear cheap, ill fitting shoes in the first place that are detrimental to their health.
 

I generally find dress codes utterly ridiculous anyway. There's something utterly disfunctional about the idea that your employer gets to tell you how you should look.

There's nothing dysfunctional about it IMO. An employer should be able to dictate and maintain standards in their own company regarding how their employees who work for the company present themselves as representatives of the company.

I wouldn't want to work for a compnay that has dress codes.

I only wish that anyone who has an issue with dress codes would adopt the same thinking instead of writing ridiculously biased clickbait articles in newspapers complaining about it. 

maudgonner

One eyed Jack wrote: »

High heels in and of themselves aren't detrimental to anyone's health. What's detrimental to a person's health is being unable to walk properly in high heels,

That's incorrect. Long-term wearing of high heels can have a range of effects on the body, some of them quite severe. Everything from ingrown toenails to bunions, calf-muscles becoming shortened, knee and hip pain from increased stress on the joints, back pain etc etc.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

maudgonner wrote: »

That's incorrect. Long-term wearing of high heels can have a range of effects on the body, some of them quite severe. Everything from ingrown toenails to bunions, calf-muscles becoming shortened, knee and hip pain from increased stress on the joints, back pain etc etc.

To be fair, I get worse pain in flat shoes than I do wearing heels. Much of a muchness I would say

alchemist33

I thought the thread title was "Sexiest dress codes..."

Not the thread I was expecting

suicide_circus

I enforce ridged physical and mental discipline on my staff

maudgonner

LexieOnRale wrote: »

To be fair, I get worse pain in flat shoes than I do wearing heels. Much of a muchness I would say

That is likely either due to the fact that you're wearing poor quality flat shoes (e.g. ballet slippers with no support) or because you wear heels so often that your foot has become distorted.


This thread is deja vu from the last one on this case, isn't it?

Junkyard Tom

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

these ballet shoes ... are terribly unprofessional looking

I don't get this at all - they're practically invisible. You'd have to purposefully focus on a woman's feet to notice she was wearing them. I would suggest that people who get irked by such an innocuous footwear choice get a life and mind their own business.

One eyed Jack

maudgonner wrote: »

That's incorrect. Long-term wearing of high heels can have a range of effects on the body, some of them quite severe. Everything from ingrown toenails to bunions, calf-muscles becoming shortened, knee and hip pain from increased stress on the joints, back pain etc etc.

I'd say that was more to do with the wearer than the shoe tbh. If they insist on wearing high heels when they experience those sort of issues, then the issue isn't the shoes.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

cheekojuls

Call me old fashioned, but this is political correctness gone mad

If your employer tells you to wear a skirt and high heels, you do it, or find another job. If my employer asks me to wear a tie, I do it.

On the attractiveness point, this is just human nature. Good looking gals with a great personality get ahead

CINCLANTFLT

Mongfinder General wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FMtalKDuyio

I like high heels...

So do I... I'm on the DART... can I safely click that link?

Sound Bite

I think dress codes are important.

I think high heels and suit jackets look far more professional than flats and cardigans. I'm sure that a lot of people agree but not everyone.

I don't think it applies to just women either. I think it would look unprofessional for a man to wear trainers or t-shirt with a suit.

Similarly, high heels wouldn't be appropriate for a builder or a fire fighter or a chef etc.

The dress code should reflect the job being done. If you don't like the dress code, don't stay in the job.

One eyed Jack

maudgonner wrote: »

This thread is deja vu from the last one on this case, isn't it?

Probably going that way alright :pac:

If I remember correctly though, the woman in that case had secured enough signatures to have the issue discussed at parliamentary level, in November of last year I think. I didn't follow it closely but I'm guessing the outcome of that discussion wasn't the landmark vindication she was hoping for.

Jawgap

cheekojuls wrote: »

Call me old fashioned, but this is political correctness gone mad

If your employer tells you to wear a skirt and high heels, you do it, or find another job. If my employer asks me to wear a tie, I do it.

On the attractiveness point, this is just human nature. Good looking gals with a great personality get ahead

Nope, it's not PC gone mad.....

.....it's a sign that the employer is a control freak and/or the people who work for them are muppets who need to be told how to dress.

It's perfectly possible to dress appropriately for any job without the aid of a checklist......for an adult anyway.

Jawgap

Sound Bite wrote: »

I think dress codes are important.

I think high heels and suit jackets look far more professional than flats and cardigans. I'm sure that a lot of people agree but not everyone.

I don't think it applies to just women either. I think it would look unprofessional for a man to wear trainers or t-shirt with a suit.

Similarly, high heels wouldn't be appropriate for a builder or a fire fighter or a chef etc.

The dress code should reflect the job being done.

That's for reasons of safety not aesthetics.

cheekojuls

But this is the way the world has been for decades. As far as I can remember, women have always worn tights, heels, skirts, etc. in work. Why do we need to change this?

cheekojuls

And in any case, impressions matter and are formed quickly. If you go into any business as a customer and the staff are dressed inappropriately, it doesn't inspire you with confidence.

andekwarhola

My current workplace is business casual, the first time for me having a dress code at work.

To be honest, getting worked up over having to wear a shirt and trousers in order to have a decently paid professional job just sounds teenage to me.

D0NNELLY

Thought the thread title was Sexiest Dress Code...




Big disappointment.

FishOnABike

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If a person is sweating in a suit and tie, it's more an issue with their personal hygiene than anything to do with a company dress code though.

I would think it is more of an issue with inadequate air conditioning in the building. Sweating is a normal physiological response of the body to maintain temperature homeostasis.

DredFX

D0NNELLY wrote: »

Thought the thread title was Sexiest Dress Code...




Big disappointment.

Joke was already made. Sorry.

Sound Bite

Jawgap wrote: »

That's for reasons of safety not aesthetics.

Fair enough but there are other examples too. A hairdresser, electrician, mechanic wearing a suit would look fine but wouldn't reflect the job being done.

Similarly, there are others. I expect my doctor to look healthy, my hairdresser to have good hair, dentist to have good teeth etc. If they don't, it is instinct to question their ability to do their job. It may be the case that they are perfectly competant but their image says otherwise.

D0NNELLY

DredFX wrote: »

Joke was already made. Sorry.

Not a joke unfortunately.
*Sad face*

The_Valeyard

Have posts been deleted?

neonsofa

FishOnABike wrote: »

I would think it is more of an issue with inadequate air conditioning in the building. Sweating is a normal physiological response of the body to maintain temperature homeostasis.

Yep it's only a personal hygiene issue if they are putting on sweaty clothes in the morning. Sweating itself is just a normal biological response, not a personal hygiene issue.

maudgonner

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'd say that was more to do with the wearer than the shoe tbh. If they insist on wearing high heels when they experience those sort of issues, then the issue isn't the shoes.

That's exactly the point though? If your job is mandating high heels as part of the dress code, then you don't have a choice. You either suffer (literally) the consequences or are forced out of your job.

Easy to say 'if you don't like it go elsewhere', but if it's forcing people out of a job (and if the dress code is widespread in the sector, out of an industry) for no good reason then that's pretty reprehensible. And yes, since it's a dress code that only (or largely ) only affects women, it is discriminatory.

Personally, I can't understand why any employer would want to impose a dress code that not only physically damages their employees, but makes them uncomfortable. Every minute I'm thinking about how much my feet ache (or for a guy, how my collar is driving me crazy with itching) is a minute where I'm not thinking about my job. I have no problem with a company saying that customer-facing staff should be presentable, but they should be sensible about it.

cheekojuls

neonsofa wrote: »

Yep it's only a personal hygiene issue if they are putting on sweaty clothes in the morning. Sweating itself is just a normal biological response, not a personal hygiene issue.

It is a personal hygiene problem. Many businesses cannot afford air conditioning. He needs to suck it up and walk it off

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

maudgonner wrote: »

That's exactly the point though? If your job is mandating high heels as part of the dress code, then you don't have a choice. You either suffer (literally) the consequences or are forced out of your job.

Easy to say 'if you don't like it go elsewhere', but if it's forcing people out of a job (and if the dress code is widespread in the sector, out of an industry) then that's pretty reprehensible. And yes, since it's a dress code that only (or largely ) only affects women, it is discriminatory.

Personally, I can't understand why any employer would want to impose a dress code that not only physically damages their employees, but makes them uncomfortable. Every minute I'm thinking about how much my feet ache (or for a guy, how my collar is driving me crazy with itching) is a minute where I'm not thinking about my job. I have no problem with a company saying that customer-facing staff should be presentable, but they should be sensible about it.

If they are unwilling/unable to carry out their duties, then that's on them.

DredFX

maudgonner wrote: »

Personally, I can't understand why any employer would want to impose a dress code that not only physically damages their employees, but makes them uncomfortable. Every minute I'm thinking about how much my feet ache (or for a guy, how my collar is driving me crazy with itching) is a minute where I'm not thinking about my job. I have no problem with a company saying that customer-facing staff should be presentable, but they should be sensible about it.

Surely the physical consequences of walking in heels or having a tight collar could be prevented by wearing heels and shirts that actually fit you well?

nice_guy80

Sometimes I wear tracksuit bottoms with runners or jeans with hiking shoes to work
Nobody bats an eyelid
But if dealing with clients, I could see how a professional dress code is important
No diff between heels and flats if you ask me

the beer revolu

I can understand some sort of a dress code for people who face the public.

For people who work in an office, never meeting the public, why does it matter a flying fook what someone wears?

Does the quality of work go down the drain on these s casual Friday days that some offices have?

No one should be forced, coerced or pressured into wearing high heels. Anyone who says that they're not damaging to health is talking through their hole.

AnthonyCny

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Appearance is important. I wouldn't hire someone with a skillrex haircut, visible tattoos or facial piercings. I wouldn't hire a woman who came to an interview looking untidy or unkempt, I wouldn't hire someone who came to an interview wearing combats and a pair of docs.

Appearance is important. Either accept the company dress code, or find a job in another company. You're being paid to carry out a job and to represent a company. If you want to wear what you like, work for yourself.

You should see the bank staff in Toronto. Dreadlocks, piercings and tattoos. Nobody gives a damn. You know why they were hired? Because they were good and qualified at the job.

Unlike in Ireland where you could be clean useless at the job but still get the job because you "look professional".

cheekojuls

the beer revolu wrote: »

I can understand some sort of a dress code for people who face the public.

For people who work in an office, never meeting the public, why does it matter a flying fook what someone wears?

Does the quality of work go down the drain on these s casual Friday days that some offices have?

No one should be forced, coerced or pressured into wearing high heels. Anyone who says that they're not damaging to health is talking through their hole.

Women have been wearing high heels for decades

maudgonner

DredFX wrote: »

Surely the physical consequences of walking in heels or having a tight collar could be prevented by wearing heels and shirts that actually fit you well?

High heels might be the perfect size for you, but they will never 'fit you well'. They force the foot into an unnatural shape, by their very nature, put more pressure on certain parts because they have less surface contact area with the ground and force you to hold your body differently, putting pressure on joints. So no.

(I can't comment on shirts, since I'm not a fella, but the comments on other threads on this topic suggest that wearing ties causes friction that itches, particularly after shaving).

maudgonner

LexieOnRale wrote: »

If they are unwilling/unable to carry out their duties, then that's on them.

Unless you're a shoe model or a hooker, wearing high heels is rarely part of the job description.

Nonoperational

Shenshen wrote: »

I do think it cuts both ways, I feel sorry for men having to wear suit and tie in August as well. Because sweat is a sign of professionality... or something.

But then I don't think that there are any professional attires for men that are actually detrimential to your health, such as high heels.

I generally find dress codes utterly ridiculous anyway. There's something utterly disfunctional about the idea that your employer gets to tell you how you should look. I wouldn't want to work for a compnay that has dress codes.

I don't know. It's their business, and if they want their employees to be smartly dressed I don't see whats wrong with that. Surely if they own the business, pay the bills and employ you then it's your responsibility to see if you can comply with their policies and not take the job if you don't like them.

I work as a healthcare professional, I wear a good pants, shirt and good shoes. If I turned up in a tracksuit firstly I wouldn't feel as professional, secondly the patients wouldn't have confidence in me.

Like most things, extremes on either side are unrealistic and heels may fall into that category.

the beer revolu

cheekojuls wrote: »

Women have been wearing high heels for decades

What is your point.

Women's feet were bound for generations, too.

Anesthetize

the beer revolu wrote: »

I can understand some sort of a dress code for people who face the public.

For people who work in an office, never meeting the public, why does it matter a flying fook what someone wears?

Does the quality of work go down the drain on these s casual Friday days that some offices have?

No one should be forced, coerced or pressured into wearing high heels. Anyone who says that they're not damaging to health is talking through their hole.

Agreed. I work as a software developer for a multinational and there is no real dress code. You have people in shirts and slacks, and others wearing Cradle of Filth t-shirts. Nobody bats an eyelid.

Nonoperational

Nonoperational wrote: »

I don't know. It's their business, and if they want their employees to be smartly dressed I don't see whats wrong with that. Surely if they own the business, pay the bills and employ you then it's your responsibility to see if you can comply with their policies and not take the job if you don't like them.

I work as a healthcare professional, I wear a good pants, shirt and good shoes. If I turned up in a tracksuit firstly I wouldn't feel as professional, secondly the patients wouldn't have confidence in me.

Like most things, extremes on either side are unrealistic and heels may fall into that category.

Agreed. Taking the job and the money, and then whining about the dress code seems ridiculous to me