Call for stickies!

cros13

Thanks KCross for prodding me on. I was getting to it....

We probably need a few good stickies in the forum to serve as a basic FAQ and guidance for new owners.

I think it would be good to have:

1 New to Electric and Hybrid: this is what you need to know
With some basic introductory info including a glossary of terms (Mad_Lad and zilog, it would be much appreciated if you guys could help here, in particular with the hybrid related terms), Grants & VRT, couple of the usual myths that need debunking

2. Home Charging
Home EVSEs, Granny cables, Nightsaver meters, etc.

3. Public Charging
How to get started, Charging types and standards, Charger etiquette, etc.

I think model specific stuff is still best left to model specific threads.

Any thoughts?

unkel

From experience, a high number of stickies will take away a significant part of the front page real estate, which takes away from the forum, rather than add to it. An example is the current for sale sticky. The last entry in there is from 4 months ago, so the sticky as a sticky is pointless.

Try and stick to as few stickies as possible. It's a good idea to combine several "stickies" as links in the one real "master sticky" if you know what I mean

cros13

I was thinking of unsticking the EV resources thread as well as the content would presumably be duplicated in the newbies sticky.
Obviously the Charter sticky needs to remain. So it would be a total of four stickies vs. the current three.

The advantage being that the titles and position would make it very obvious that the info someone is looking for is in that thread.
Heading off some of the more repetitive posts. Also these would be locked single post threads.

Balmed Out

As part of the general "new to electric etc" of EV's some general FAQ'S like how much extra if not for an ev does a nightmeter cost especially if not doing nighttime laundry, how much does having buggys, iso fix car seats etc decrease range etc.

Importing an EV

How to use and read leaf spy.

Buying a second hand EV and the differences with an ICE. For instance a regularly used EV will have a better battery condition after 20k on the clock then a similar aged car with 1k on the clock, to what degree? whats the ideal mileage a year etc?

I guess all this stuff could be in a food for thought before buying thread.

cros13

Balmed Out wrote: »

Importing an EV

I think it probably should'nt be addressed beyond the VRT and Grant info.

Balmed Out wrote: »

How to use and read leaf spy.

This would be model specific stuff better suited for an ordinary thread. Could link to it though.

Balmed Out wrote: »

Buying a second hand EV and the differences with an ICE. For instance a regularly used EV will have a better battery condition after 20k on the clock then a similar aged car with 1k on the clock, to what degree? whats the ideal mileage a year etc?

We'll have to cover some topics on 2nd hand EVs but any detailed discussion would be outside of the scope of the stickies.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

The advantage being that the titles and position would make it very obvious that the info someone is looking for is in that thread

That's crucial. I think the trick here would be to create a FAQ like Balmed Out suggested and then give such a thread title that it is obvious people will look there for info

slave1

Hands up, I'm new to this forum but a long time Boardsie, stickies are great but too many clog up the front page, no more than 4 please, what use is a sticky if it has not been posted to in ages, if the topic is really that important then natural postings will keep it on the first few pages, if it drops away from the first page then so be it, there is a search function at the end of the day...

The Black Oil

I did this table recently in the Android forum. Might be useful to do something similar with FAQs and/or particular models. More of a lurker here myself, though I do own a Yaris hybrid and I enjoy reading what others are doing.

Gumbo

I would separate electric from hybrid.

unkel

Interesting point, kceire. Nothing per se to do with stickies, more with the forum itself. And then there is not just hybrid and full electric, but also plug in hybrid electric (Hybrid, PHEV and BEV).

I'd be inclined to want these separated too, I'm only interested in full BEV myself, but the forum is only young, doesn't have that many posts / traffic yet and splitting it up at this stage would probably spread the forum out too thinly.

aliveandkicking

unkel wrote: »

Interesting point, kceire. Nothing per se to do with stickies, more with the forum itself. And then there is not just hybrid and full electric, but also plug in hybrid electric (Hybrid, PHEV and BEV).

I'd be inclined to want these separated too, I'm only interested in full BEV myself, but the forum is only young, doesn't have that many posts / traffic yet and splitting it up at this stage would probably spread the forum out too thinly.

I'd be of the opinion that anything that doesn't have a plug doesn't belong in this forum. So full electrics and plug in hybrids here, regular hybrids in the main motors forum.

Bigus

aliveandkicking wrote: »

I'd be of the opinion that anything that doesn't have a plug doesn't belong in this forum. So full electrics and plug in hybrids here, regular hybrids in the main motors forum.

No , too much abuse of hybrids in main motors from ignoramuses. Needs to be here, it's one of the reasons EVs has its own forum.

liamog

I'd agree, the EVs section should require a plug. I'm a BEV man myself. but at least a PHEV hits some of the same issues we do.

Hybrids are just an ICE with an internal energy store!

cros13

Yeah, some of the reasons I suggested we separate charging related stuff from the newbies sticky was that could have the hybrid-specific stuff and more obviously include answers to the common non-plugin questions. That could be the obvious FAQ for everyone to read with those interested in plugin/charging stuff continuing on to the next post.

It'd be nice for the forum to be more inclusive and not just a plugin owners club, shouting "burn the unbeliever" every time a prius gets mentioned or someone gets their terms mixed up.
There's also no other place on boards to discuss Hybrids/Hybrid tech or even 48V mild hybrid stuff without the discussion going off-track or turning into a shouting match over diesel.

It's also worth pointing out that many here have had a journey to plugin ownership that included a hybrid along the way. They have knowledge borne of experience to offer new hybrid owners and its worth encouraging people to explore the benefits of any drivetrain electrification.

KCross

I like the idea of one or two stickies rather than cluttering up the real estate on the main page.

One large FAQ with absolute facts given (no opinions) and then a table laid out like @theblackoil did above with links to other threads for "further information" on key topics like available models, real world range etc.

I would also maybe propose a 2nd sticky specifically for EVSE because it is continuously asked here "what is required and costs involved in installing an EVSE". This is going to become even more common as more people look to EV's and anyone buying 2nd hand wont have the luxury of getting a free site visit and install from eCars(until the 2000 run out). So, as time progresses every would be EV buyer is going to ask that question. We should list the types, typical costs etc and then a link to some other threads.

I think the stickies should be locked and not turn into a 50 page argument where it veers off into all sorts of tangents. Any inaccuracies or additions can be debated via PM with cros13 or open a new thread.

isnottheword

One key sticky with url links to either posts or threads of distinction covering various key topics?

cros13

isnottheword wrote: »

One key sticky with url links to either posts or threads of distinction covering various key topics?

Do people really go down through the links on pages like that?
And on the destination thread how many pages/posts down is the relevant and correct information?

Zaph

FYI, we prefer forums to have as few stickies as possible because of the amount of space they take up on Touch. Three is the number we recommend as the maximum, but if there were four we're not going to make an issue of it.

isnottheword

cros13 wrote: »

Do people really go down through the links on pages like that?

If there's a very brief description above each link - then yes.

cros13 wrote: »

And on the destination thread how many pages/posts down is the relevant and correct information?

You can link to a key post rather than a key thread if necessary.

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

Interesting point, kceire. Nothing per se to do with stickies, more with the forum itself. And then there is not just hybrid and full electric, but also plug in hybrid electric (Hybrid, PHEV and BEV).

I'd be inclined to want these separated too, I'm only interested in full BEV myself, but the forum is only young, doesn't have that many posts / traffic yet and splitting it up at this stage would probably spread the forum out too thinly.

Sorry, I meant with regards to stickies not splitting the sub forum up.

Shefwedfan

Ok, I was just about to start a thread and found this thread.

I have looked at this forum a number of times and always got confused.

I think a sticker called "Recommend EV v Hybrid for Me: Beginner Thread"

So people can post there own cars, what mileage they do and what vehicle they should be looking at? I am trying to figure out at the moment should I go Prius/Hyundai Ioniq(Hybrid or Electric)/Leaf

There is too much jargon in a lot of the thread, all you geeks out there with your BEV, PHEV, ICE blah blah blah :-)

I think this would be worth while....fill the rest of the forum with your acronym

Calahonda52

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok, I was just about to start a thread and found this thread.

I have looked at this forum a number of times and always got confused.

I think a sticker called "Recommend EV v Hybrid for Me: Beginner Thread"

So people can post there own cars, what mileage they do and what vehicle they should be looking at? I am trying to figure out at the moment should I go Prius/Hyundai Ioniq(Hybrid or Electric)/Leaf

There is too much jargon in a lot of the thread, all you geeks out there with your BEV, PHEV, ICE blah blah blah :-)

I think this would be worth while....fill the rest of the forum with your acronym

As we are still live in a Trump free zone, I disagree re the use of acronyms: there is too much snowflake stuff going on already: won't be long before someone takes offence as it hurts their sensibilities and they need to dive into a safe room because they thought ICE was ice...:D

goz83

Use a single sticky with links to threads, which are sticky worthy, but are not stickied and taking up 1st page real estate. This is how it works:

Create threads that are "sticky worthy" (for want of a better phrase). I would suggest...
(1) Newbies...READ THIS
(2) All About BEV
(3) All About PHEV
(4) All About Hybrid
(5) Buying New
(6) Buying Used
(7) All About Charging

Once the sticky worthy threads are ready to go, add them to the Main Sticky, which will actually be a sticky. Call it Sticky Menu or something. It will work like a website home page......sort of. That's how I would do it anyway.

Pointless and off topic posts in stickies to be deleted/edited, so as not to fill them with rubbish. The main sticky can only be added to my a mod.

The Black Oil

A few possible tables for yiz.

Model| Threads

BMW i3 | Here and here|
GM Bolt |Here
Hyundai Ioniq | Here and here
Kia Niro | Here and here
Renault Zoe|Here
Tesla 3| Here
Yaris Hybrid|Here

Import Stories/Experiences
2015 Nissan Leaf SVE 24kWh | Here
2014 Nissan Leaf Tekna |Here and here


(not too familiar with the variations in the Leaf, so please correct if I have the categories wrong)

Technical Info|
Night rate costs/info|[URL="ttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057711079"]Here[/URL]

Home charging points|Here and here



Leaf probably needs its own table. Many threads. :pac:

zilog_jones

I think it might be good to create an FAQ thread for specific vehicles (and have one sticky with a table like above), and either have them locked or be very strict with comments to cut down on noise/off-topic discussion. The current threads on the i3, Leaf, Ioniq, etc. are ridiculously long and not very useful at a glance - they'd be totally bewildering for any beginners.

The current "EV & Hybrid resources for Ireland" sticky is very much unloved with out-of-date/incorrect info, and should probably be ditched altogether.

Calahonda52

Perhaps rather than stickies, create separate subfolders like they have over in some of the IT sections:
Windows/Android/Apple/ Linux and so on
Based on maybe the owner ship distribution here.
Of course we will need one for showers.....:)

isnottheword

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Perhaps rather than stickies, create separate subfolders like they have over in some of the IT sections:
Windows/Android/Apple/ Linux and so on
Based on maybe the owner ship distribution here.
Of course we will need one for showers.....:)

speakev of course is a specialist forum. However, you could structure it in a similar vein to some degree. For example, sub-forums for specific manufacturers and then a general forum for discussion that affects all EV (including comparisons).

stesaurus

I would really be against diluting the forum down . This forum was actually pretty dead just a few months ago. It's great to see daily activity now but that would disappear if we segregated it by manufacturer etc.
I'd be all for kicking out Hybrids though, not sure why they aren't in the main forum.

Evd-Burner

s.welstead wrote:

I would really be against diluting the forum down . This forum was actually pretty dead just a few months ago. It's great to see daily activity now but that would disappear if we segregated it by manufacturer etc. I'd be all for kicking out Hybrids though, not sure why they aren't in the main forum.

Completely agree.

goz83

s.welstead wrote: »

I would really be against diluting the forum down . This forum was actually pretty dead just a few months ago. It's great to see daily activity now but that would disappear if we segregated it by manufacturer etc.
I'd be all for kicking out Hybrids though, not sure why they aren't in the main forum.

Except plug in hybrids. They do have a place here.....and their electric range will likely increase alongside the BEV ranges. It won't be too long before a PHEV has the electric range of a 24kw leaf imo.

Shefwedfan

s.welstead wrote: »

I would really be against diluting the forum down . This forum was actually pretty dead just a few months ago. It's great to see daily activity now but that would disappear if we segregated it by manufacturer etc.
I'd be all for kicking out Hybrids though, not sure why they aren't in the main forum.

Agree with point about diluting on different makes but

Why would you kick out Hybrids? My original question was Electric or Hybrid. I was 95% sure I was going to buy a Hybrid. After asking the question here I done a u-turn and bought electric. Could I ask same question in electric only forum?

There is not enough footfall for electric or hybrid to have separate forums to be honest. Putting them in separate forums is going to decrease even more.

So instead of a growing community in 1 forum you will have tumble weed in 2 forums....

mirrorwall14

Please include a jargon buster. I was overwhelmed joining this forum for the first time (which is fairly unusual on boards, a lot of jargon is banned in forums) and literally spent the first few weeks with google open to remind myself what phrases meant

Calahonda52

Hybrids are a regulatory subterfuge and have no place in an EV forum, less so PHEVs.

Its a similar fudge to the notion of buying Carbon Credits so you can continue spewing out carbon unabated as long as you buy CC that are supposedly used to improve the lot of folk in the lead developed world: for example to upgrade the cooking systems of some nomadic tribes in the sub-Sahara from desert flotsam, jetsam, lagan, and derelict to, perhaps, oil burning stoves.

edit: for mirrorwall14
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flotsam,_jetsam,_lagan,_and_derelict

Shefwedfan

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Hybrids are a regulatory subterfuge and have no place in an EV forum, less so PHEVs.

Its a similar fudge to the notion of buying Carbon Credits so you can continue spewing out carbon unabated as long as you buy CC that are supposedly used to improve the lot of folk in the lead developed world: for example to upgrade the cooking systems of some nomadic tribes in the sub-Sahara from desert flotsam, jetsam, lagan, and derelict to, perhaps, oil burning stoves.

edit: for mirrorwall14
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flotsam,_jetsam,_lagan,_and_derelict

Is this environmental forum?

I looked and I seen it is a sub forum of Motors. Electric cars and Hybrid cars are in a similar bracket at the moment. Makes perfect sense to have both of them in same forum

isnottheword

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Is this environmental forum?

I looked and I seen it is a sub forum of Motors. Electric cars and Hybrid cars are in a similar bracket at the moment. Makes perfect sense to have both of them in same forum

I don't agree. PHEV's are a regulatory work-around.

Alu

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Agree with point about diluting on different makes but

Why would you kick out Hybrids? My original question was Electric or Hybrid. I was 95% sure I was going to buy a Hybrid. After asking the question here I done a u-turn and bought electric. Could I ask same question in electric only forum?

There is not enough footfall for electric or hybrid to have separate forums to be honest. Putting them in separate forums is going to decrease even more.

So instead of a growing community in 1 forum you will have tumble weed in 2 forums....

I agree completely, so many threads which mention hybrids in the main motors forum invariably end up recommending a visit to this forum for more information.

Some may argue that hybrids are no more than a regulatory workaround but the fact is that they act as a gateway to full EV. Hybrids also offer a cleaner alternative to diesel – remember EV range and available vehicle styles (e.g. for larger families ) is still an issue for many drivers.

In my experience most people couldn’t tell you the difference between a hybrid and an electric vehicles. Removing hybrids from this forum would be like the alternative music sub forum banning discussion of certain bands because they’re not alternative or indie enough – navel gazing at its best (or worst)

isnottheword

Alu wrote: »

so many threads which mention hybrids in the main motors forum invariably end up recommending a visit to this forum for more information.

That doesn't preclude there being a sub-forum for hybrid/phev's.

Alu wrote:

the fact is that they act as a gateway to full EV.

You mean they give the illusion of appearing to be environmentally friendly and involve a higher outlay? There's an argument to be made that there is sufficient (for most people) BEV's on the market to cater for their driving habits 99% of the time. Because we can't get some folks out of their comfort zone for that 1% of the time, they go and buy PHEV's ....ergo...without the existence of PHEV's, perhaps BEV numbers would be that little bit higher....

Alu wrote: »

Removing hybrids from this forum would be like the alternative music sub forum banning discussion of certain bands because they’re not alternative or indie enough – navel gazing at its best (or worst)

Putting them in a sub-forum underneath EV's would not be removing them. All it would mean is categorising them separately and drawing a distinction between them - and rightly so - as no matter what way you look at it, they are quite differentiated from Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV's).

Shefwedfan

isnottheword wrote: »

Putting them in a sub-forum underneath EV's would not be removing them. All it would mean is categorising them separately and drawing a distinction between them - and rightly so - as no matter what way you look at it, they are quite differentiated from Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV's).

There isnt enough Hybrid and Electric car people on boards to require separate forums.

isnottheword

Shefwedfan wrote: »

There isn't enough Hybrid and Electric car people on boards to require separate forums.

There are enough BEV folk on boards to support this forum. Hybrid could be a sub-forum branching off BEV i.e. it's within the same forum but has it's own separate category. As regards a numbers count, it doesn't really matter. If there's not much activity, so what - it will still be 100% concentrated hybrid/phev talk.

Saying that there are not enough folk on boards to separate hybrid/phev from BEV's is like saying there are not enough participants to discuss cricket and baseball. Regardless, it's a mistake to lump them in together.

goz83

Had there been separate forums for hybrid and bev, I would likely be driving a hybrid now. I was drawn to this forum when looking for more info on hybrids, specifically phev. A hybrid forum would likely have fed me positive info on hybrids and neglected mention of a bev, so I am glad they are not split. Being here is what got me thinking bev could work for me.

Alu

isnottheword wrote: »

You mean they give the illusion of appearing to be environmentally friendly and involve a higher outlay? There's an argument to be made that there is sufficient (for most people) BEV's on the market to cater for their driving habits 99% of the time. Because we can't get some folks out of their comfort zone for that 1% of the time, they go and buy PHEV's ....ergo...without the existence of PHEV's, perhaps BEV numbers would be that little bit higher....

What I mean is that the prospective buyers view hybrids as a fuel efficient low tax option which suits their driving needs - in most cases pure EVs aren’t even on their radar. However, when presented with the options and information, by the friendly people here, many realise that a BEV would suit better. Separating at this point could make those discussions more difficult, a regressive step in my option.

Also, hybrid tech is environmentally less damaging than diesel, especially in urban areas. Also, and I don’t have the stats to hand, but most BEV drivers drove a hybrid first.

isnottheword wrote: »

Saying that there are not enough folk on boards to separate hybrid/phev from BEV's is like saying there are not enough participants to discuss cricket and baseball. Regardless, it's a mistake to lump them in together.

Would you be in favour of separate petrol and diesel sub fora in motors?

I think this discussion needs its own thread..

Alu

goz83 wrote: »

Had there been separate forums for hybrid and bev, I would likely be driving a hybrid now. I was drawn to this forum when looking for more info on hybrids, specifically phev. A hybrid forum would likely have fed me positive info on hybrids and neglected mention of a bev, so I am glad they are not split. Being here is what got me thinking bev could work for me.

You said it better than me.

Shefwedfan

goz83 wrote: »

Had there been separate forums for hybrid and bev, I would likely be driving a hybrid now. I was drawn to this forum when looking for more info on hybrids, specifically phev. A hybrid forum would likely have fed me positive info on hybrids and neglected mention of a bev, so I am glad they are not split. Being here is what got me thinking bev could work for me.

Exactly the same as myself, My plan was Hybrid Lexus or Toyota till I asked on this forum....

isnottheword

goz83 wrote: »

Had there been separate forums for hybrid and bev, I would likely be driving a hybrid now.

Alu wrote: »

What I mean is that the prospective buyers view hybrids as a fuel efficient low tax option which suits their driving needs - in most cases pure EVs aren’t even on their radars.

So that evidences the fact that folks are approaching the idea of hybrid/phev and bev with preconceived notions. I don't judge anyone for that. At the end of the day, we all made our way across here based on the research we did based on what we needed and what we felt comfortable with.
Having said that, is this forum a practical source of information - as pragmatic as that - or is it a case that it's a marketing exercise? Discussion forums to me are pragmatic, practical spaces/sources of specific info. Of course, it would have been unfortunate if you (goz83/shefwedfan) had come to the wrong decision because you wouldn't have felt it worthwhile to investigate BEV's but the option to check it out thoroughly would have been within your ability - if you had wished to (even if they were forum and sub-forum).

Alu wrote: »

Separating discussion at this point could make those discussions more difficult, a regressive step in my option.

It could harness the strength of the discussion forum format - by concentrating the focus upon a specific topic. Of course, there may be a certain level of cross-over - but that doesn't stop people checking out both. Time permitting (despite not being a fan of PHEV, I'd imagine I'd still check in to Hybrid/PHEV now and again to see if there have been developments).

Alu wrote: »

Would you be in favour of separate petrol and diesel sub fora in motors?

If the vehicles had separate systems for both petrol and diesel on board, then yes. Otherwise, I don't see it being in any way comparable.

Alu

isnottheword wrote: »

So that evidences the fact that folks are approaching the idea of hybrid/phev and bev with preconceived notions. I don't judge anyone for that. At the end of the day, we all made our way across here based on the research we did based on what we needed and what we felt comfortable with.
Having said that, is this forum a practical source of information - as pragmatic as that - or is it a case that it's a marketing exercise? Discussion forums to me are pragmatic, practical spaces/sources of specific info. Of course, it would have been unfortunate if you (goz83/shefwedfan) had come to the wrong decision because you wouldn't have felt it worthwhile to investigate BEV's but the option to check it out thoroughly would have been within your ability - if you had wished to (even if they were forum and sub-forum).

I wouldn’t call it marketing but this forum is ‘selling’ the idea of electric vehicles and a lot more successfully than most of the main dealers I’ve interacted with - I don’t see that as a bad thing. The discussion of the pros and cons of BEV, hybrid, FCEV, etc. is both open and pragmatic. All questions are answered in a welcoming and encouraging manner. Even discussions about electric showers, immersions, and solar panels are entertained without (immediate) ‘wrong forum or thread’ angry type responses.

It could harness the strength of the discussion forum format - by concentrating the focus upon a specific topic. Of course, there may be a certain level of cross-over - but that doesn't stop people checking out both. Time permitting (despite not being a fan of PHEV, I'd imagine I'd still check in to Hybrid/PHEV now and again to see if there have been developments).

I agree that the forum needs organisation to make finding answers/ info easier - while keeping its openness to discussion. An option might be a stickied ‘start here ask anything' thread for new visitors, where they could be directed to the correct sub forum / thread (if it exists) or otherwise invited to start a new thread.

BoatMad

given there are no stickies, lets have no stickies.

This forum should be about vehicles whose primary means of propulsion is electric , thats my view, That may allow hybrids, or PHEVS or neither

goz83

BoatMad wrote: »

given there are no stickies, lets have no stickies.

This forum should be about vehicles whose primary means of propulsion is electric , thats my view, That may allow hybrids, or PHEVS or neither

Except the forum is called Electric Vehicles & Hybrids, so discussion of both is thankfully allowed. When someone is looking at moving away from Diesel and Petrol, they can come here and get great info. Sometimes they come here (like me) with and eye on one technology, but end up choosing another, which they may have dismissed.

We can all do our research online, but when something is not even up for consideration, the research will be biased to one type of tech. I was convinced that I could get 90% of my driving done in electric only mode in an outlander phev. I have had the Leaf only one week and I reckon I would have only managed about 60% in electric mode. I drove about 140klms a couple of days ago, which would have cost a few quid if I was in a PHEV. It cost me nothing in the Leaf thanks to public chargers

Thanks for the Mats Peposhi

peposhi

No bothers, goz83!

peposhi

I could possibly get a hybrid someday... as a second car lol

isnottheword

goz83 wrote: »

Except the forum is called Electric Vehicles & Hybrids, so discussion of both is thankfully allowed.

The name of the forum can be changed in 2 seconds flat. That said, there will always be a facility to discuss either or.

goz83 wrote: »

We can all do our research online, but when something is not even up for consideration, the research will be biased to one type of tech.

You won't be deprived from reading about 'hybrids/phev's' - it could be in a sub-category right next to OR underneath 'BEV's'.

goz83

isnottheword wrote: »

The name of the forum can be changed in 2 seconds flat. That said, there will always be a facility to discuss either or.

You won't be deprived from reading about 'hybrids/phev's' - it could be in a sub-category right next to OR underneath 'BEV's'.

I see what you're saying, but if they were separate, I would not have visited the bev forum at all. Its the mixed nature here that has (in my case) made all the difference.

Only a couple of months ago, I would not have entertained the idea of buying a bev. The very name bev would have had me thinking about pouring a glass of Coke, not thinking of a Nissan Leaf.