Childless mid-life crisis

LegacyUser

Hi. I'm a 52 year gay man. In my 20s I knew I wanted to have children but I didn't know how to go about it and I didn't want to destroy other people's lives. I also realised that I was attracted to other men - which was illegal, unpopular and totally unacceptable during the 1980s. I've lived through Irelands gay decriminalisation, some kind of acceptance, civil partnership and even gay marriage but it doesn't help my dwindling dilemma. I'm still a gay man, still working in Ireland, earning a decent wage but am I gone beyond the dad age and having some kind of worthwhile/fulfilled life?

Thanks:)

Paddy Cow

I feel for you op. There are plenty of people who wanted children and for whatever reason it didn't happen. Your situation made it harder than most and unfortunately you lived in times when adoption wouldn't have been an option for you.

I don't think anyone can give you any advice or suggest anything that you haven't thought of yourself. Look at the practicalities. You are 52. They say that age is just a number but that's bullsh!t we tell ourselves so we don't feel bad about getting older.

There are people who have a child that late in life but it's not the norm. I don't know your circumstances, such as if you are in a relationship with someone who also wants kids or if you would be financially well off enough to go down the surrogacy route but even if you were, you would realistically be 54/55 before any child came along.

Would that be fair to you or the child?

I don't really know what advice you are looking for but would you look into fostering? I don't know how that works but I think the restrictions aren't as strict as with adoption (maybe someone else has more knowledge).

m'lady

Like the previous poster, I also feel for you op, it's a pretty difficult situation to be in.

I don't have any advice to add to what you have already been given above, but I would like to say one thing- be extremely proud that you didn't in your own words destroy other people's lives.
There is nothing worse that being deceived by a person you love who is living a lie, especially a lie so deep that can affect many people, including children (having been deceived by a man not facing up to the fact that he was gay and had a child with him - trust me I've been there and still wearing the t-shirt )

Thankfully I've moved on now and am very happy, but it's taken a long time. I don't regret my fantastic daughter one single bit, but I did resent how I was deceived.

I hope things improve for you op x.

Big Bag of Chips

Have you explored adoption? I know age might be against you in terms of adopting and bringing up a baby, but you could look into adopting an older child maybe? I think you shouldn't write anything off until you have at least explored the possibility with the relevant bodies.

Would you consider fostering? Lots of children in need of both short term and long term homes.

Loveinapril

Are you working, OP? Or in a relationship? The only thing about fostering is that someone has to be at home full time because of the commitments associated with caring for a child in foster care.

Big Bag of Chips

Not necessarily, LoveinApril. A school age child wouldn't need a parent at home all day. There may be appointments that a child needs to be brought to, but that would be the case for any child.

pwurple

People suggesting fostering should be aware that at least one of the people fostering need to be a full time stay at home parent. 
This does not seem to be the case in OP's case from the post... I read the OP's situation as being a single working man. 
Adoption is a different kettle of fish, but I know it's a very long process. The age cutoff for Irish adoption is 40. Don't know about foreign adoption. 

Have you any siblings OP? Being Best Uncle ever is a pretty cool thing to be...

pwurple

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Not necessarily, LoveinApril. A school age child wouldn't need a parent at home all day. There may be appointments that a child needs to be brought to, but that would be the case for any child.

No, it's a requirement of the fostering process. children in foster care have high needs and are often troubled.

eviltwin

Just on foster care, its not a solution to someone who wants their own child. Fostering is not a replacement for a childless person and shouldn't be seen as such. You are just caring for the child on a temporary basis and the possibility is that they will always be returning back to their family, it takes a very strong person to be able to take a child into their home and care for it as their own knowing that one day they may leave for good.

I'm not saying you should write it off OP as an option but I think you need to come to terms with your feelings around not having your own child before you look to fill the void.

There are other things you can do, mentoring, volunteering with children etc can be helpful. Also don't feel that not having kids means your not living a worthwhile life,it may feel that way at the moment but if you give yourself time hopefully you will see that you can have a purpose without children.

Big Bag of Chips

pwurple wrote: »

No, it's a requirement of the fostering process. children in foster care have high needs and are often troubled.

Has that changed recently? I know reading up on it previously, and listening to articles on the radio about it it didn't used to be a requirement.

Loveinapril

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Has that changed recently? I know reading up on it previously, and listening to articles on the radio about it it didn't used to be a requirement.

I worked in a fostering association for a couple of years and it is expected that there is a person at home with the child. A foster carer never knows what age child they will be caring for, and the length of placement may change so it may mean that they have a 14 year old for 6 months but then get a 4 year old. There are often access visits and many appointments and meetings that the carer must be available for too.

pwurple

Has that changed recently? I know reading up on it previously, and listening to articles on the radio about it it didn't used to be a requirement.

I applied to become a foster parent a few years ago, and was told that either my husband or myself would need to give up our jobs to do so. This was about 4 years ago, and I've heard similar from others.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I'm a bit broody and think its probably a natural instinct to procreate as I reckon that it's our primary function in life to continue the species - and apologies in advance to others who happen to disagree with me for whatever reasons.
But to clarify - I've thought about adoption & fostering but they're just not for me - plus being single, working full time and my age are factors that would probably rule me out. I reckon that the surrogacy route is probably best but is expensive and full of legal loopholes. Although I would have more than enough family support I think it might be a bit selfish on my part. I'm sure that there must be females in the same boat where time is critical and who might appreciate the support and financial backing - but how I'm not sure how to go about this process...

Big Bag of Chips

sofa lozonge wrote: »

I'm sure that there must be females in the same boat where time is critical and who might appreciate the support and financial backing - but how I'm not sure how to go about this process...

Well that's a very different proposal to a gay person becoming a parent through adoption. What you are proposing is having a baby with a woman, who also wants a baby, but doesn't have anyone to have one with? I don't mean to sound condescending, but how exactly would you see that working out? Two strangers, who know little about each other, have no relationship agreeing to share a baby? Share custody? Share expenses? Share the child's life? What happens if one or other meets a partner? What happens if there's a fall out between both parents.

I just don't know. I see that as a 'convenient' set up, that has the potential to end in disaster for all involved. Most of all the child.

The_Conductor

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Have you explored adoption? I know age might be against you in terms of adopting and bringing up a baby, but you could look into adopting an older child maybe? I think you shouldn't write anything off until you have at least explored the possibility with the relevant bodies.

Would you consider fostering? Lots of children in need of both short term and long term homes.

Adoption is a not an option- 30-32 is considered ideal, it goes against you once you're over 32- all the way up to 40, when its an abrupt cut-off. Given people have children naturally in their 40s all the time- and over 60% of first time mothers in the National Maternity Hospital have been classified as 'geriatric mothers' by the midwives since 2010- I don't think using 40 as an arbitrary cut-off is fair or reasonable- providing of course that it is in the best interests of the child.

With no disrespect intended to the OP whatsoever- I'm in my 40s and have been lucky enough to have two children. I don't have the energy to run around after them that I might have had 15 years ago- and they know it. The reason for an age cut-off is not just for the children's benefit- its for your benefit too- no-one tells you what to expect- all the sleepless nights- going into work for days on end without sleep, trying to somehow function- when your body just isn't up to it.

Age isn't fair on any of us.

I know its not what the OP has suggested- but it might be fulfilling to sponsor children abroad- set up a bursary to pay school fees for a number of deserving children annually somewhere like Kenya where there is much abject poverty- but you could actually see the difference your gesture might make?

LegacyUser

Thanks again for the replies.

I suppose I'm thinking of the options available for any chance of being a parent.

To quote Big bag of chips - "Two strangers, who know little about each other, have no relationship agreeing to share a baby? Share custody? Share expenses? Share the child's life? What happens if one or other meets a partner? What happens if there's a fall out between both parents."

Over the years I have witnessed couples who were together for a number of years, had children and separated with disastrous consequences to their families. I also know people who had children after a two night stand and are still married today And couples who had children but are separated - but put their family first.
I'm just wondering if prospective parents agree to have a child and are willing to be the best they can in the knowledge that if a problem arises then the interest of the child is of primary concern (with a mutually agreed child-centered plan B in place)...

ArnieSilvia

I'll probably come across as negative so first of all I'll say that I'm mid-30 and I have 2 teenage kids that I love and overall I'm happy with how things worked out.

In relation to age, I can't even imagine myself having small children now. It's very hard work and it never stops, just one problem is being replaced by another.

So I want to give you another view of the children story.

Throughout my adult life I was ridiculed due to having children early but recently I heard from a lot of people that they envy my situation of being able to focus on career, being able to travel with work etc. Problem is, I don't care about those things anymore. I envied people doing careers, going up the ladder, then when I could I tried, and came back home as I understood that my family is all I care about. My mindset changed because my family is all I have. But this is not compatible with consumer society we live in and I admit me and my wife are lost and misunderstood hence very lonely at times.

You'd think that I should be happy. Well, it's not that simple.

We live in this country only because it's one of very few where bringing family entitely on our own was financially possible. Without family I'd leave Ireland tomorrow.

We live in house and in a place that's completely opposite to where we would like to be, only because this was one of few decent houses in safe location with decent ET primary and secondary school within walking distance from home that we could afford.

Career wise it's all family dictated. I couldn't progress in the past and acted like idiot due to being overstressed, overworked and overtired.
I gave up my last job to maintain my mental health in check but this brought financial trouble, magnified by family.
My wife, one of the wisest people I know, effectively gave up career and worked around school hours to make sure kids got everything they need.

My house is in mess no matter how much effort I put into cleaning it. Two dogs and various other animals taken in over years due to kids don't help.

Every meal in our house is home made, no takeaways whatsoever unless when on trips. You'd think it is appreciated?Only after I let my anger out when my daughter again didn't bother to even try food I made after hours of work, and after threatening my kids that from then on there'll be oven chips and chicken nuggets forever, they finally copped on and I even heard thank you recently.

Lastly, many times over I had to say to my kids that I'm their father, not financial provider. Requirements are endless, wrecking my head all the time. No matter how much you give, there's another thing they want next day.
On financial front, we are always careful due to how much it cost to run a family. I reckon that in Dublin we need about 80k gross to live a modest life (no going out, no restaurants, camping holidays etc) and that's how it's been in last 5 years. Currently at 30k, one month searching for jobs and pressure is building, 4 interviews so far, wife is freaking out, was giving out today that I should forget about trying to get a decent job and that that I should take basic, menial, low paid work. Make your conclusion from that.

I said it all to show you that if this is the level of sacrifice then go for it, however if given choice to re-write my life story by having kids I'm not too sure. Definitely not at my current age.

pwurple

I agree with the above... children are a bloody hard slog for decades. I'm 30's with children, and will be in my 50's when they hit their 20's and are young adults who should be able to fend for themselves. Assuming you had a child tomorrow, you'd be mid-70's by the time they were grown. And to be horribly blunt, you may be dead before they get there.

Biologically, (apart from extreme outliers) a woman of your age would be unable to have a child.

Many people want to have children and cannot have them, due to never finding a partner, infertility, loss or other circumstances. Sometimes we just cannot have something we deeply want.

LegacyUser

My grandad was in his 50s when he got married and of course is long since dead now. My mum has a lot of nice things to say about him because by all accounts he was a good man. But she also has told me how self conscious she felt when she was growing up because he was so much older than other fathers. I've also heard my aunts and uncles talking about him and bringing up his age

My mum and her brothers and sisters had to do a lot of "his" work around the farm because he wasn't able to any more. They were also faced at an early age with the issues most people don't encounter until they're older. Looking after elderly parents. My grandma was younger than grandad but had health problems. My mum once confided in me that she felt enormous guilt when she married and moved away. She was 25 at the time. If you were to talk to my mum or my aunts and uncles, you'd get a lot of insight into what it's like to be the child of an older father.

Having said all that, I get what you're saying. My long term relationship ended 2 years ago. I'm now a single, childless 43 year old woman who's wondering what it's all about. I'd love to have had children but it didn't happen. There are times when I'm incredibly lonely and fearful of the future. My friends have mostly moved away or are up to their eyeballs in bringing up children. Being middle aged and single is tough, no matter what sort of brave face you try to put on it. The only suggestion I have for you is to try and fill your life with things to do and other people as much as you can. Of course I should be looking in the mirror and taking my own advice.

amtc

You can see this two ways. I'm a perfectly happy 43 year old woman with no children. My friend is exactly the same age doing ivf left right and centre. She's miserable. I'm fine.

However we're both following our goals. Mine is job. Hers isn't. OK I know it won't keep me warm at night but..

I would also point out the age thing. I have been minding my friend's 3 year old this week and I'm wrecked plus it takes about an hour to leave the house and eyes in back of head. I had to send an email and suspiciously quiet found child in washing machine.

The other thing is I'm an only child and I wouldn't do that. Fine as child but not now....

Loveinapril

sofa lozonge wrote: »

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I'm a bit broody and think its probably a natural instinct to procreate as I reckon that it's our primary function in life to continue the species - and apologies in advance to others who happen to disagree with me for whatever reasons.
But to clarify - I've thought about adoption & fostering but they're just not for me - plus being single, working full time and my age are factors that would probably rule me out. I reckon that the surrogacy route is probably best but is expensive and full of legal loopholes. Although I would have more than enough family support I think it might be a bit selfish on my part. I'm sure that there must be females in the same boat where time is critical and who might appreciate the support and financial backing - but how I'm not sure how to go about this process...

I can somewhat understand your feelings as I have a lesbian friend who recently hit a realisation in her mid forties that she will never be a mother. What she does have is a very deep bond with her neices and nephews and friends kids. Can you switch up your mindset to appreciate what you do have and just take some of the good bits of the role of parenting and be the really cool uncle/ friend?

Big Bag of Chips

sofa lozonge wrote: »

Over the years I have witnessed couples who were together for a number of years, had children and separated with disastrous consequences to their families. I also know people who had children after a two night stand and are still married today

Yeah, but in all those above cases there wasn't a conscious decision to get pregnant, create a child, build a "family', but never actually live as a family.

People who had children and separated, didn't start off with the plan to separate, and certainly wouldn't have planned to separate acrimoniously. People that got pregnant from a one night stand never planned on getting pregnant to begin with, but had to deal with it when it happened.

What you're thinking of is planning to get pregnant but also planning to not be a 24/7 parent to the child. Best you'd get is half time, or if you work, just weekends. Or if the mother works, every second weekend so that she could spend some weekend time with her child too. And you can't make a promise that if things go bad you'll keep it civil for the sake of the child. Isn't that what every couple in the world promises themselves? It often doesn't work out like that though.

You're 52. Even if this happened today you'd be 70 when your child is leaving school and starting college. How old do you see the mother being? She would have to be late 30s early 40s at the oldest for fertility reasons. Would a single woman in her late 30s who's probably still hopeful of meeting someone to share her life with be willing to have a child with a 52 year old stranger? Would a younger woman with a higher chance of conceiving be interested in such a plan?

I understand you are desperate for this to happen, but I don't think this is the way to be thinking. It may work out, but there's an awful lot of variables that just make it too unlikely to be a happy ending.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for the feedback – it really is food for thought. From the age of 21 I have always craved to have my own children but allowed my career to fill the void. For that reason and after working 30+ years I am now lucky enough to be financially secure for life and could easily reduce or even stop working and still have a decent constant income.
Just to reply to a few posters...
ArnieSilvia – I agree that people have different priorities in life but the consumer society was never for me. Holidays, high tech products etc are probably great for some but never really appealed to me. From my experience of nephews & nieces I realise that children can be difficult at times but are the most worthwhile investment in the long term.

pwurple – I appreciate that I will be in my mid-70s by the time my child will be in their 20s.But I have also worked with people who were misfortunate enough to have lost parents early in life and also same-aged friends whose parents are still fit and active!
Also thanks for the info that the majority of women of my age are biologically unable to give birth to a child. However, I am not a woman and (for whatever reason) nature still allows me to procreate naturally as a man.
Lastly I disagree that“sometimes we cannot have something we deeply want.” This is probably the last thing I would say to any child…

Porta
l2017 – Thank you and I honestly appreciate your post in sharing your life experience.

Big Bag of Chips – Thanks again for the input. More food for thought but I’d prefer some Pringles...

Neyite

I know a man who was 59 having his last child. His wife was a couple of decades younger and they had a very happy marriage. He passed away in his 80's having seen all his children graduate, meet partners of their own and settle down to have children. Men who bring over mail order brides have families later in life all the time. Men don't have the same time constraints as women do.

I had my son in my late thirties (female) And we would still be open to having a baby at 42 if it wasn't for fertility issues preventing us. There are risks, of course, which got well discussed with our specialists.

Sites like Rollercoaster and Mumsnet have surrogacy boards. Mumsnet is a UK based one so the laws might differ, but at least you can do a bit of research and at least know the pitfalls to consider.

Best of luck.

A man in his 50s has no business bringing new life into the world. Your example is somewhat rare. Most men won't live into their 80s to see their kids graduate. I'd say OPs best bet is fostering. It's a sad compromise to have to make but it's most certainly in a child's best interest

Big Bag of Chips

sofa lozonge wrote: »

thanks for the info that the majority of women of my age are biologically unable to give birth to a child. However, I am not a woman and (for whatever reason) nature still allows me to procreate naturally as a man.

But what about the woman? And her body? The woman that is going to carry and give birth to the baby you want. It's not easy, at any age!!! How old do you think a woman who would be interested in this be? The younger the woman, the more likely she is to conceive and give birth without complications but the less interested she is likely to be in such a plan. The older the woman the more likely she is to have trouble conceiving, during delivery and the more likely the baby is to have disabilities. How do you think you would handle that if you barely know the woman? How can you be sure how the woman would handle it? It's a very vulnerable time for a woman, and that's when everything goes smoothly! Would you want to be at the birth? Would the woman want you at the birth?!

If you are financially comfortable and could give up work, then maybe you could use some of the money to explore surrogacy. Properly. Have a baby that will 100% be your responsibility. 100% depend on you. What you're suggesting, (as the cheap option) is wrong, in my opinion. It is unfair on a mother, and unfair on a child.

You don't seem to be considering either though, just what you want, and how to get it.

sofa lozonge wrote: »

I disagree that“sometimes we cannot have something we deeply want.” This is probably the last thing I would say to any child…

But it's true! And as children grow and learn they learn that too. Santy doesn't always bring the present they want. The "best friend" that they desperately want to play with sometimes plays with someone else. They mightn't get invited to the birthday party they want. They mightn't win at musical statues! It's little life lessons along the way that teach children that life isn't always going to go exactly as they want it to. It teaches them how to deal with and handle disappointment so that when things don't go according to plan as adults, which very often happens, they can deal with it.

Ursus Horribilis

wrote:

Lastly I disagree that“sometimes we cannot have something we deeply want.” This is probably the last thing I would say to any child…

Are you sure this isn't you projecting here because you're not getting what you want? Most probably, fathering a child isn't going to happen for you. The solution that came to my mind was if a lesbian couple wanted a child and needed a donor. Though how that'd work our, or indeed how you'd find them is another question.

You've said you're broody and I'm not going to doubt that. What I'm also seeing is a 52 year old single man who may be lonely and feels his life is a bit empty. You're not quite at retirement age but maybe the thoughts of it are fuelling this too.

I'm afraid I'm also on the side of the "you're too old" people. My dad is nearly 70. A fit youthful man but he's definitely slowing down a bit. He likes his afternoon naps and the quiet life. It's all too easy to throw out stories of 80 year old men climbing mountains and people being in the full of their health. While these people undoubtedly exist, you can't just toss the other side this to one side. There's every chance you might not be in good shape at 70. I feel you're only thinking of yourself here and not what a child with an old father will experience.

witchgirl26

I just wanted to chime in as the child of an older father. My dad was 50 when I was born (the last one in the family) and while he was amazing when I was growing up there were things that were awkward/a little embarressing as a child. My dad retired the same day I finished primary school (granted a couple of years early) and he often couldn't be as active as others parents due to age.

I additionally had to face the reality of losing a parent at a young age for me but a good age for him. He passed away almost 9 years ago (he would have been 72) so he didn't meet the majority of his grandchildren and 2 of his children's partners at all.

OP I think others here have made some very valid points in regards the situation you find yourself in. And the "sometimes we cannot have something we deeply want" is a lesson that all children have to learn at some point. When they are younger, those things they want may be quite trivial to adults but it helps learn the lesson.

dory

The_Conductor wrote: »

I know its not what the OP has suggested- but it might be fulfilling to sponsor children abroad- set up a bursary to pay school fees for a number of deserving children annually somewhere like Kenya where there is much abject poverty- but you could actually see the difference your gesture might make?

This is what I'm doing! Gay, single woman, prob won't have kids but I sponsor a few in India. <mod snip> I know it's not the same but it's nice to know that the money I'm not spending on children here is being spent abroad. It's a very small charity and I've visited the school.

Mod: Dory, could you post the link to the charity instead - pm messaging is not allowed here thanks.

pwurple

sofa lozonge wrote: »

pwurple – I appreciate that I will be in my mid-70s by the time my child will be in their 20s.But I have also worked with people who were misfortunate enough to have lost parents early in life and also same-aged friends whose parents are still fit and active!

You recognise that people who lose their parents early are misfortunate, but you wish to guarantee that fate to your own potential offspring? How can you reconcile that?

Also thanks for the info that the majority of women of my age are biologically unable to give birth to a child. However, I am not a woman and (for whatever reason) nature still allows me to procreate naturally as a man.

Nature allows? I assumed nature was being left out of it completely and this was an artifical impregnation. Let's not dance around it, Are we not talking about buying a baby here?

Either way, do a bit of reading into sperm quality, and how paternal age affects outcome. It is not without consequence. Older fathers risks include dwarfism, Apert syndrome, bipolar, schizophrenia, autism. Women are born with all their eggs. Sperm are constantly created, and as you get older and more battered, so does your sperms DNA. Be aware, informed and prepared. Rather than your child caring for you in your old age, you have a higher chance than younger parents of encoutering a disability and caring for them until you are gone, and then providing for them for the rest of their lives afterwards.

Lastly I disagree that“sometimes we cannot have something we deeply want.” This is probably the last thing I would say to any child…

That is a quick route to creating a selfish uncaring human, give into every one of their whims.

LegacyUser

I'm one of these "misfortunate" people who lost a parent young. I can tell you right now that for me it wasn't a mere inconvenience. I was 22 and it was traumatising. I was barely out of college and still finding my way in the world. Mum dying ripped from me the person who was helping to steer me in the choppy waters. I still miss her and grieve for the time we never had together as adults. Nobody can predict when they're going to go but statistically time is against you by the time you're in your 70s.

fits

Cake of Tremendous Power wrote: »

A man in his 50s has no business bringing new life into the world. Your example is somewhat rare. Most men won't live into their 80s to see their kids graduate. I'd say OPs best bet is fostering. It's a sad compromise to have to make but it's most certainly in a child's best interest

If that were true I wouldn't be here. My father was older than that. Retired when I was young and took on most of the childcare for me and younger sister while my mother worked. It wasn't perfect ( what family is) but I think I had as good an upbringing as any.

Loveinapril

fits wrote: »

If that were true I wouldn't be here. My father was older than that. Retired when I was young and took on most of the childcare for me and younger sister while my mother worked. It wasn't perfect ( what family is) but I think I had as good an upbringing as any.

The difference there is the partnership between your parents. I have a friend with two toddlers with a man in his fifties and although he is a fantastic father, they are both painfully aware that he cannot do as much as he used to and he is likely to die before the kids get married/ have children of their own. They make financial decisions based on her being left with the children alone as it is a strong possibility as her partner ages. The OP doesn't have this luxury.

Ursus Horribilis

See, you can twist this any way you want. It's like smokers going on about some 90 year old auld lad who lives near them who has been puffing away for 75 years and is as hardy as a trout. My parents are 70ish so I've got a fairly good grasp of who, locally, is roughly the same age as they are. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the people around them are slowly but surely running into significant health problems. Cancer, dementia, strokes, heart troubles... Some others have already made that final journey in the wooden box. I'm sure if you'd asked all these people at 50 where they saw themselves at 70, they didn't think it'd be that!

ArnieSilvia

Life of your kids doesn't end when they graduate.

You should be there for your kids and their kids, probably give your kids a hand raising the grandchildren to help keep their marriage in health and spoil these small ones too. That's my vision of family, sadly not the case with my own parents.

I was born when my father was in his 40's. Once he reached 60 he gradually become slower and less capable, the fact he was retired by the time I went to secondary school meant that he was detached from reality of job market and wasn't able to help me with advice in regard to future career nor had friends able to help with first job or internship. He didn't think about future nor had any plans anymore. On contrary, future plans is something I bring into conversation with my teenage kids very often. We discuss their strengths and where these would be utilised best in their future.

Another sad fact is that mine and my wife's parents never ever visited us in Ireland in the 13 years. They say that they are too old. Not a problem of people with young parents.

eviltwin

My parents had me late and it was something I always hated. The contrast with my friends parents who were a good ten to fifteen years younger was stark. I lost my father young and have a mother plagued with health issues. My friends parents are still young.

I know health is a lottery and having children young is no guarantee of anything but you can't argue with biology.

I had my family young because it's fairer on the children but also because I don't want to leave them when they are still teenagers, I want to still be part of their lives when they are in their 20's, 30's and beyond.

As an adult I see the relationship my friends have with their parents has evolved into a unique friendship that is lovely to observe, going for pints, to matches, on holiday etc. Your role as parent doesn't end when your kids become independent. I think it would be irresponsible to have a child, a first child especially, at such an advanced age.