Why are Stuff on Production lines still produced by humans these days?

Andy From Sligo

Why are Stuff on Production lines and factory jobs still produced by humans these days and not by robots/machines?

Surely automated machines better than humans? - no days off sick , can work 24hours 7days a week without breaks - am sure there are other benefits than employing humans to work on a production line

darkpagandeath

Building the automated factories is expensive atm, Paying low wages to Chinese people or Indians for example is cheaper.

Poor Uncle Tom

Still need people to maintain, manage and quality control product, that's where most of the jobs are in production factories nowadays anyway. It isn't possible to do it economically without people.

listermint

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Why are Stuff on Production lines and factory jobs still produced by humans these days and not by robots/machines?

Surely automated machines better than humans? - no days off sick , can work 24hours 7days a week without breaks - am sure there are other benefits than employing humans to work on a production line

Don't worry people will be made obsolete fairly soon next 2 decades.

You'll get the dream.

Then we will have other wars to worry about in the west east south and north. Poverty drives war too. Eliminating employment fast tracks that.

Sound goal to have I suppose.....

professore

Machines break down, or don't work as expected.

Yourself isit

Humans are more flexible. Anyway assembly lines don't really do much work. The skill is creating the bits that need assembling.

Fr_Dougal

I'd imagine in 20 years time companies will be advertising that their products are partly made by humans, it will be like Fair Trade today.

Can't see automation machines being great consumers, race to the bottom for the economy.

ScumLord

It takes time to develop a fully automated production line. You literally have to think of everything because the robot won't improvise, if something a millimetre off where it's supposed to be it can stop the whole operation, or worse cause a problem that isn't immediately obvious and you make thousands useless parts. Then there's the massive initial outlay, the cost of maintaining them, specialists are expensive and not always immediately available in a crisis.

At the end of the day your putting huge amounts of time and effort into building a machine that can do a simple operation that a human can do. The human is still the ultimate factory floor machine, it can even do the job of two or three machines without months of investment.

SEPT 23 1989

It will be hundreds of years before they can fully do what we do so dont mind the guff Tomorrows World tells you

Dr Crayfish

If some jobs become obsolete, people will just find other things to do. The industrial revolution probably destroyed many crafts and trades but we still got by didn't we?

darkpagandeath

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

If some jobs become obsolete, people will just find other things to do. The industrial revolution probably destroyed many crafts and trades but we still got by didn't we?

False comparison, Job losses will spiral as there will be no jobs to replace the lost jobs. 1 AI will run a call centre that had 400 employees for example. Just imagine the job losses in the financial sector banking. Self driving cars boats trucks. A large data centre can run with about 5 people.

Dr Crayfish

darkpagandeath wrote: »

False comparison, Job losses will spiral as there will be no jobs to replace the lost jobs. 1 AI will run a call centre that had 400 employees for example. Just imagine the job losses in the financial sector banking. Self driving cars boats trucks. A large data centre can run with about 5 people.

Well people can always be kept busy. The idea of a living income for the unemployed could also be introduced.

Widdershins

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Why are Stuff on Production lines and factory jobs still produced by humans these days and not by robots/machines?

Surely automated machines better than humans? - no days off sick , can work 24hours 7days a week without breaks - am sure there are other benefits than employing humans to work on a production line

....No hairs in your food.

It's going to be a sad day when so many people find themselves replaced by robotics, though.

darkpagandeath

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Well people can always be kept busy. The idea of a living income for the unemployed could also be introduced.

Aye, a job will be one a bonus if you can get one to the government living wage.

alias no.9

Fully automated production lines take a long time to design and build. Product life cycles are getting shorter and shorter, time to market is also a big determinant of the total revenue and profit that will be generated over the life of the product. Tooling that cannot be used across multiple product families and/or multiple generations of of similar products is often not economically viable to automate. Ironically, for many consumer electronics products, the most automated part of their product assembly lines will be the bit that packs the product into boxes at the end of the line.

Phoebas

professore wrote: »

Machines break down, or don't work as expected.

People, on the other hand ....

Dr Crayfish

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Aye, a job will be one a bonus if you can get one to the government living wage.

what?

Stravos Murphy

Who will take the horse to France then?

SEPT 23 1989

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

Who will take the horse to France then?

Number 5

md23040

With Robots and Ai set to replace labour more and more, inevitably there will be huge losses of income tax, PRSI receipts to government etc.

The EU and other countries impose import taxes from cheap labour ecomonies to balance competitiveness, therefore IMO there should be an sliding scale automation tax on company profits of up to say 40% for using Ai and robots. Otherwise where will the greed of more and more profitability end.

Stravos Murphy

md23040 wrote: »

With Robots and Ai set to replace labour more and more, inevitably there will be huge losses of income tax, PRSI receipts to government etc.

Ai as in artificial insimmation? is old fashion riding becoming a thing of the past too?

Phoebas

md23040 wrote: »

With Robots and Ai set to replace labour more and more, inevitably there will be huge losses of income tax, PRSI receipts to government etc.

The EU and other countries impose import taxes from cheap labour ecomonies to balance competitiveness, therefore IMO there should be an sliding scale automation tax on company profits of up to say 40% for using Ai and robots. Otherwise where will the greed of more and more profitability end.

We have Excel ... and a photocopier. How much automation tax should we pay?

Phoebas

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

Ai as in artificial insimmation? is old fashion riding becoming a thing of the past too?

Its all on computers these days.

andekwarhola

Technology for full automation isn't more cost effective than cheap human labour.

Yet.

L1m1tless

If nobody has a job, who will buy the stuff the AI is producing?

Stravos Murphy

L1m1tless wrote: »

If nobody has a job, who will buy the stuff the AI is producing?

They will have to improve the dole.

B.A._Baracus

Machines can't do everything. A lot of things require the human touch.

I was watching that Christmas food documentary on bbc1 last month and they were showing how to make yule logs in one example. It's still a worker who rolls two at a time on the conveyer belt. Imagine trying to get a machine to do something as simple as that? Just easier to pay someone.

Samuel T. Cogley

Birth rates in Europe are declining. Perhaps we'll stop immigration, populations will decrease ad we'll all be Doctors, Lawyers and Pilots living in a utopia of manual labour being done by robots.

So say we all?

Phoebas

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Machines can't do everything. A lot of things require the human touch.

I was watching that Christmas food documentary on bbc1 last month and they were showing how to make yule logs in one example. It's still a worker who rolls two at a time on the conveyer belt. Imagine trying to get a machine to do something as simple as that? Just easier to pay someone.

Imagine no longer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45jEinuCIjs

Samuel T. Cogley

Phoebas wrote: »

Imagine no longer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45jEinuCIjs

What are those weird bipedal entities walking around?

coastwatch

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

What are those weird bipedal entities walking around?

Umpa Lumpas

Samuel T. Cogley

Wheety

The BBC series on food factories was great.

In some, there were only around 5 workers in a massive warehouse. A machine scanned a barcode and went off and picked up a full pallet and placed it on a truck. There were loads of these machines moving quickly around the factory picking orders and putting them directly on trucks for delivery. They never crash into each other because of sensors all over them. Was quite impressive. They can work 24/7 too.

Another factory had driverless trucks going from a storage warehouse to the production factory. It didn't have to go on public roads as it was part of the same complex but still shows what they can already currently do. This technology is improving all the time too.

Wheeliebin30

No need to panic.

I'm sure 100 years ago noone predicted anything we have nowadays.

Point is noone knows what's gonna happen in 100 years.

Andy From Sligo

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

No need to panic.

I'm sure 100 years ago noone predicted anything we have nowadays.

Point is noone knows what's gonna happen in 100 years.

100 years a bit far off nowadays though .. and way the world is going there might not be anything around in 100 years time

If the machinery is available (or can be made) to do these jobs, then maybe its time to switch and let machines do most the work and just keep humans to make the machines in the first place, oversee the machines (make sure they dont malfunction or repair them if they break down) and check quality control - but gone should be the days now of humans repetitively producing something on a production line day in , day out or packing things monotonously surely eh?

When you hear as well of so many people that are so fed up of working on a production line and doing the same thing, every day for years with no move up the ladder , same thing every day and no variation and they are so bored and only there 'because the pay is so good' - surely must have a knock on effect in their lives and health and family life even if they dont realise it no?

Widdershins

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

100 years a bit far off nowadays though .. and way the world is going there might not be anything around in 100 years time

If the machinery is available (or can be made) to do these jobs, then maybe its time to switch and let machines do most the work and just keep humans to make the machines in the first place, oversee the machines (make sure they dont malfunction or repair them if they break down) and check quality control - but gone should be the days now of humans repetitively producing something on a production line day in , day out or packing things monotonously surely eh?

When you hear as well of so many people that are so fed up of working on a production line and doing the same thing, every day for years with no move up the ladder , same thing every day and no variation and they are so bored and only there 'because the pay is so good' - surely must have a knock on effect in their lives and health and family life even if they dont realise it no?

I know someone who works in all weathers doing heavy, dirty, dangerous and awkward physical work that's also mentally taxing, with no real recourse when the employer treats him badly. He's at the point where he talks dreamily of a factory job. I asked him if he wouldn't get mind numbingly bored with the repetitive nature of the work and he said he'd be fine with that as he'd spend his evenings or weekends doing the interesting stuff.

I mean his current job is also very unusual, creative and exciting, on a good day.

Jurgen Klopp

L1m1tless wrote: »

If nobody has a job, who will buy the stuff the AI is producing?

Not to mention, given estimates of 50% of jobs to be lost how will any sort of dole or universal income which is touted as the solution be provided from the remaining workers taxes, while at the same time cover all the infrastructure and services tax does, along with said workers having enough left over for themselves.

A massive tax on all companies might be a way regardless of whether it's a program or robot.

I'd call it a "tough ****" tax.

darkpagandeath

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Not to mention, given estimates of 50% of jobs to be lost how will any sort of dole or universal income which is touted as the solution be provided from the remaining workers taxes, while at the same time cover all the infrastructure and services tax does, along with said workers having enough left over for themselves.

A massive tax on all companies might be a way regardless of whether it's a program or robot.

I'd call it a "tough ****[\i]" tax.

Only other solution would be to move from a monetized economy.

Jurgen Klopp

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Only other solution would be to move from a monetized economy.

You know I'd say the powers that be would have AI severely restricted rather than do that

eeguy

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Birth rates in Europe are declining. Perhaps we'll stop immigration, populations will decrease ad we'll all be Doctors, Lawyers and Pilots living in a utopia of manual labour being done by robots.

So say we all?

Probably the three worst examples to use.

If your job is predictable, like if it has a certain routine or follows a set procedure, then a computer will do it, probably sooner than you think.
There is a theory that the baby boomer pension gap will be filled by increased robot productivity. I'll believe it when I see it though.

darkpagandeath

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

You know I'd say the powers that be would have AI severely restricted rather than do that

It's a catch 22 AI would be such a profit generator due to no wages.

JupiterKid

Are products built to last any more? I have a washing machine that is less than 5 years old and is already starting to malfunction.:(

I know white goods and TV etc are much cheaper than 30 years ago, but has quality been sacrificed?

eeguy

JupiterKid wrote: »

Are products built to last any more? I have a washing machine that is less than 5 years old and is already starting to malfunction.:(

I know white goods and TV etc are much cheaper than 30 years ago, but has quality been sacrificed?

Yes. You get what you pay for.

darkpagandeath

eeguy wrote: »

Yes. You get what you pay for.

Not really you have to think there is some critical failure built in to keep the infinite growth going. If you had a washing machine now lasting 20 years it would kill off companies.

Widdershins

JupiterKid wrote: »

Are products built to last any more? I have a washing machine that is less than 5 years old and is already starting to malfunction.:(

I know white goods and TV etc are much cheaper than 30 years ago, but has quality been sacrificed?

I have read that they aren't and it's called ''planned obsolescence''. I don't know if that's a fact or just a theory. It seems to happen that way, for whatever reason. When you look at old machinery and appliances, they seem much sturdier, without flimsy plastic components.

darkpagandeath

Widdershins wrote: »

I have read that they aren't and it's called ''planned obsolescence''. I don't know if that's a fact or just a theory. It seems to happen that way, for whatever reason. When you look at old machinery and appliances, they seem much sturdier, without flimsy plastic components.

Aye, That's the Key the Components that are as you say flimsy. I remember back in the day people used to chuck CRT monitors out when they would not turn on. 90% of the time it's the internal 5amp fuse. Easily replaced Quite a money maker if you were into skip diving. Remember having draw full of early Walkmans ? Could be a simple as the drive belt or plastic cogs gone.

topmanamillion

listermint wrote: »

Don't worry people will be made obsolete fairly soon next 2 decades.

You'll get the dream.

Then we will have other wars to worry about in the west east south and north. Poverty drives war too. Eliminating employment fast tracks that.

Sound goal to have I suppose.....

If the Agricultural and industrial revolutions have proven anything its that when jobs are made obsolete people are good at finding other things to do.

darkpagandeath

topmanamillion wrote: »

If the Agricultural and industrial revolutions have proven anything its that when jobs are made obsolete people are good at finding other things to do.

What is coming is not one sector though, As I said imagine just for a second the amount of call centres around. Most reasonable ones have about 400 people. Now replace them With an AI. Just think of the sectors affected.

Slydice

Just give em a bit more time.

They're working on it..

md23040

Phoebas wrote: »

We have Excel ... and a photocopier. How much automation tax should we pay?

This is a very pedantic point. It is only a matter of time before government will have to adopt some sort of taxation based on automation with people being put out of work as a result of Ai and Automation. Dole will have to be paid as well as loss of income tax, prsi etc. The less human intervention in a business with large scale redundancy needs to the recognised for taxation. Last month Fukoku Mutual Life Insurance in Japan laid all its staff and replaced with Ai - see Here

The great wash within clerical is just beginning as well as delivery drivers, taxi's, factories, docks, airports, train stations etc (800 laid off in London underground last year). Even in supermarkets and airports you do everything yourself. I am sick to death of company's making more and more profit at the behest of everything else and maybe that's why we are in the political maelstrom presently with Trump and Brexit (more to come with EU elections) - and maybe its a good thing with a groundswell of anti establishment, rejection of liberal metropolitan centralist/left politics.

The above comment is glib but noontheless over the years my pay has been shovelled with extra taxes and companies like Apple, Google, Starbucks, Amazon are getting away with blue murder and making exponential increases in profits while idiots like our government defending their taxation position.

In the next ten years loads of staff in government like revenue commissioners as well as private sector clerical is going to be finished - the last recession was the first to hit the middle classes as well the working classes, but with the advent of Ai/automation we ain't seen nothing like the economic damage it has the potential to cause (if left unchecked) - especially to the metropolitan Miss Pencil Skirt (McWilliams phrase) and Mr Hipster generation etc.



..

Phoebas

md23040 wrote: »

This is a very pedantic point.

It is, but it still needs to be dealt with.

An automation tax is a bad idea that couldn't possibly work. A better way of dealing with this is a profits tax (which we already have) coupled with a tax credit for every human employed. That way you could protect marginal human jobs without the crazy bureaucracy of an automation tax.